Point taken. I wasn’t suggesting it would solve the problem, more that it might help in a few cases and send a signal generally. More helpful would be the idea put forward by other postrers here of a network which could help girls in that position. Ideally, someone in schools to whom they could go in confidence.

Well done Sunny. I wish MORE people would say the word “BULLSHIT” whenever they hear the oft repeated line “forced marriages are very rare”. It would be better if that were to happen not just on weblogs but also on prime time TV news (even if it were to be “bleeped out” it would still be obvious to everyone watching what was being said – i.e. the truth).

The reason this “no-nonesense outspoken-ness” probably DOESN’T happen is probably because of a phenomenon described eloquently described by Chairwoman earlier:

“Welcome to the world of 2nd/3rd generation immigrants. This is the phase where you suddenly find yourself (in public)defending the undefendable*, and paying lip-service to customs you have no sympathy with, as not to do so appears disloyal.”

Also perhaps too many 2nd/3rd generation people, like gullible cowards have bought the line “you do not contradict elders no matter what they say (however ridiculous)”.

The problem with raising the marriage age, or even prohibiting a British asian from marrying a non-British asian is that there are ways to get around it.
I’m pretty sure it applies to every, if not most asian countries, but when parents take their kids to Bangladesh or Pakistan and even India, they can still force them to get married. How? By having the civil/religious ceremonies and getting an official marriage certificate at the end of it.

The only problem with prohibiting the marriage from happening legally by British terms by a few years, is that it doesn’t give the girl or boy time to consider the issue. It only makes the British parents more scheming: they’ll get married in the asian country, the british youngster will come back, they’ll wait a few years before they’re legally allowed to marry by British law. The marriage will most liekly still happen and the other half will eventually reach British shores either way.

But the British asian community is apparently not yet ready for this.

Next best is : the asian community should own up to the problem and thus OWN the problem and work *bloody actively* towards solving the issue since they are so uptight about criminalising it.They should be putting in hell of a lot more effort than they seem to be presently.

They can take practical measures using resources available within the community:

For example

1. having a specific person in every mosque, temple, gurdwara who can be approached discreetly by the victim for help. This person either counsells the parents concerned and tries mediation or reports the problem to a specific authority if no resolution is possible so that the person at risk can be rescued before he/she is whisked off to the sub-continent.

It goes without saying that the primary concern of such a resource person MUST be the welfare of the woman/man being coerced, not the ‘reputation’ of the family/community. If they shy away from this task, then they really have no business bitching if the state steps in with (hopefully harsh)legal remedies. 300 cases a year (only those reported btw) is way too much.

2. The community needs to be the most proactive in education on this issue.The message that needs to go out is that forced marriage is WRONG. No fudging allowed.

Asians should also get the clear message that they are being given a last opportunity to police themselves.They must have a clear idea of what the repercussions might be if the problem persists.

Kids can be reached through school and the mass media but the parents, esp if they are ultra-traditional or not so literate, may only be reached through the socio-religious networks.

3. The community network is better placed than the state to identify those at risk. If an older sister goes off on ‘holiday’ to the sub-continent (friends,neighbours and relatives often know of such trips in advance) but fails to return, can’t you reasonably assume that the younger sister is at risk? If the much vaunted asian ‘community spirit or close-knittedness’ really exists, then they must have the best ‘intelligence’.It’s about time such intelligence is shared.

Asians must also own up to the very close link between forced marriage and ‘honour’ killing/abuse (a criminal matter, no?
The same misguided notions about female chastity/sexuality, the superiority of ‘religious’ or ‘asian’ values, ‘status’ in the community etc motivate both forms of violence.

You have hit on an excellent idea; a forced marriage helpline, staffed 24 hours a day, 365 days a year (or at least for as many hours of the day as possible)

A telephone number that can be called freephone that will give help and advice to any girl or boy facing this situation, similar to Childline, but tailored especially for this problem, with links to police, shelters, social workers across the country, British Embassy advice etc etc

This is one practical thing that can be done. Work overtime to disseminate the telephone number across media through schools and colleges, so that it is as widely known as possible. This is the kind of thing that can be done to really help in a practical sense. These kinds of things can make a difference.

Sunny, your question as to what we could do. Have a couple of ideas:

1. The most powerful way of communicating this issue is to get people who have suffered a forced marriage to speak out. Is there any way we could source these women? I was reading this very story in The Asian Times today and there’s a picture of a woman who has suffered a forced marriage and thankfully broken free. If we do a petition, perhaps it should be led by such women, with our support?

2. The other idea I have is to craft a letter or pledge, get it signed by organisations who are in support of legislating against forced marriages and submit it to a national paper. In a similar way to the FT letters page when companies sign a commitment for an issue (obviously the FT is not right in this case but perhaps some other title would work?)

3. In addition and linked to my comment above is to perhaps ask The Samaritans or another helpline to highlight the issue through their work. I don’t know at the moment if there are specific helplines dedicated to people who suffer this type of thing? If the government aren’t going to ban forced marriages, the very least they can do is support victims of it.

These are just quick ideas which may not work in this case, but it would be good to see some sort of action or solution come out of our debate….

Indian marriages are stupidly expensive – that’s what.

What would be the difference between a marriage and a civil partnership?

Surely people who were minded to force their children into an alliance with someone they deemed suitable would just push them into a civil partnership instead?

The reality, of course, is that this is not actually the case, even if (I suspect) some of these “leaders” — who are certainly not democratically elected by the hundreds of thousands/millions of people they supposedly represent — may wish to believe they are indeed in some kind of position of authority.

“Community representatives” — well, possibly. Community leaders — hell, no.

But again – the question still remains how best to deal with the situation if someone’s already signed the papers. really we need to be thinking about avoiding getting to that stage.

The extensive prison sentence this would involve and the associated social condemnation should go some way towards acting as an effective deterrent.

Presumably you mean “tweaked” in the sense of “tweaked upwards” (ie. older).

I don’t think this will necessarily make much difference in many cases, as quite a few of the women concerned will still be living with their parents and, due to the cultural factors involved in their parents’ thinking, would not be able to move out until they got married. Of course increasing the age requirement will give such people a little more time to sort their lives out and get out of the house if possible.

The age amendment also won’t necessarily affect the cases of sons being pushed into these situations with women they don’t want to marry, regardless of whether the potential spouse is from the UK or abroad.

Although it’s still a good idea and merits consideration.