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  • Technorati: graph / links

    English Defence League leadership revealed

    by Rumbold on 3rd September, 2009 at 9:26 PM    

    There has been a lot of discussion about the English Defence League, the far-right group with links to the BNP that caused trouble in Luton and Birmingham recently. The EDL has attempted to distance themselves from the BNP, but as this video shows, you can see why people make the connection.

    The video is one of a three-part interview with the central command of the EDL, and has them talking about issues like this:

    “The main speaker complains that his home town is being taken over by Muslims, who, he claims, have a birth rate of 10 children per family. He says that on occasions of one minute silences in the town “any Asians” will deliberately make noise, and that they yearly celebrate 9/11. He also objects to Muslims “infiltrating” the local council and government, and suggests that they make decisions to close down churches and turn them into mosques, and to ban St. George’s Day parades while allowing extremist events. Further, he alleges that the police arrested protestors from across all the local estates as a strategy in order to discourage further protests, and that the arrests were in the form of raids in which doors were smashed open.”

    Filed in: Current affairs, Other racists, Race politics, The BNP

    • Leon
      Heh great move by those idiots to wear balaclavas. THAT doesn't provoke any negative mental images now does it? :D
    • Rumbold
      Heh. I thought that too. And the coverings are black (which probably confuses elements of the EDL's following).
    • Shamit
      Central Command -- wow!

      I knew they were nutters but they are so far off with their own make believe world it would have been really funny if it wasn't so sad and scary at the same time.
    • Rumbold
      Well, I don't think they call themselves the central command, but I like to think that they do.
    • Lemongrel
      The effect of the balaclavas is offset by the flipflops.
    • tron
    • Sofi
      i bet he's a bloomin lutonian.
    • London Muslim
      just need to change the black (very PC) to white add a few burning crosses and robes.

      Central Command is too Stalinist very 1950's and a bit like an outdated Russian 5 year plan.

      How about Grand Wizzard or perhaps Central Dragon or the Imperial Knights....

      Afraid I'm beginning to lose faith in Care in the Community
    • Boyo
      "just need to change the black (very PC) to white add a few burning crosses and robes."

      Or grow beards, wear long flowing robes and rave about beheading... different side, same coin.
    • Feeling a bit disappointed Boyo?
    • me187
      so what are these links to the bnp then? sounds like a load of BS to me...
      what trouble did the edl cause? it was the uaf who organised the trouble in response to the edl's peaceful protests.
      this article is complete and utter nonsense and suprise suprise the sheeples just agree with it and are no more the wiser.
    • me187
      i have the best interests of this country at heart.
      gordon brown claims the same.
      does this mean i have links to gordon brown?..

      i am an athiest who wants world peace, islam claims to be the religion of peace.
      does this mean that i have links to islam?

      how can you say the edl have links to the bnp based solely on the fact that some of the edl members say similar things to some bnp peopl???

      the media have a lot to answer for....
    • Boyo
      You always chose to misinterpret me Sunny ;-)

      I recall saying they were an articulation of working class militancy that did not fit the liberal mold, and so they are. So they exaggerate and echo the arguments of the BNP. No surprises there - the BNP target Muslims to further their racist agenda - but does that make the EDL, inspired by the protests of Islamists at an army parade (?) - actual racists? Its an argument as old as Islamophobia... one can find plenty of examples on this site of insults - chav, juice, etc - that are frankly racist, along with your own prejudice for Israel... My original point in any case was not to support these football hooligans - haven't we all been biffed by the very same thugs? - but to point out that simply smearing them racists was missing the point by a very wide mark. IMHO they are the authentic, if extreme, face of English working class anger as old as England itself, just as Islam too has always had its violent, angry extreme.
    • damon
      I think Boyo has a point.
      Of course they're idiots, but lots of people are.

      There was a thread about listening to muslim youth on here just the other day.

      I said that listening to youth was sometimes a bit hard on the ear as they talked like half-children. These guys are like that.

      They are I suspect racists, and Islamophobes too.
      But to expect them to be able to understand Sughra Ahmed's report on young British muslims is expecting too much of simple people.
    • camilla
      and who actually banned St George Day's parades in UK? and why?
    • DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells
      Same people who banned Christmas I suspect.

      Errrr, why, you ask ? To push a crypto fascist cultural Marxist (insert more meaningless buzzwords here, to taste) agenda, or something.
    • sidney
      there is no demand of st georges day not enough people want it, If there is a demand it will happen.

      blaming muslims is a cop out.
    • Don
      who actually banned St George Day’s parades in UK?


    • tron
      it was an islamaphobic protest march, thinly disguised as a st george parade and organised by someone who had previously been under arrest for stirring up racial hatred that was banned.
    • DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells
      "blaming muslims is a cop out."

      Particularly considering he happens to be the patron saint of a few 'Islamic' places (Palestine, Beirut, Istanbul, etc.)

      A bit like Muslims 'banning' Christmas when Christ happens to be their second most important Prophet, it's absurd.
    • camilla

      why, you ask, why I ask?

      is not it natural to ask why something traditional has been banned and why? quite harmless question...

      why do you think I want to push some agenda? strange ...

      may be it depends on the answer to this question ... not on me ...
    • DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells
      He plays first base for St Louis.
    • PeezNlentils
      Chris Renton a BNP member created the EDL's website. Paul Ray of the EDL admitted on Talksport radio that the EDL had links to the BNP.

      It was Oliver Cromwell who banned Christmas. St George is also a Muslim saint known as Al-Khiḍr (Khizar the Green One).
    • Binky
      If these spirited young chaps replaced the balaklavas with gutras / keffiyas, they could get generous multiculti subsidies and contribute to CiF in Al-Grauniad
    • steve
      So, how do we stop this?

      1. challenge, challenge, challenge.

      Stop taking the piss out of them and do something. Talk to people, raise consciousness.

      2. Promote alternatives.

      Don't allow street battles to occur, it just strengthens the divides. If they wish to march, adopt peaceful protest and be seen as the non-aggressor. Much easier to keep the general public on board rather than seeing street fighting.

      3. Acknowledge failures

      Believe that multiculturalism has not and will not work. Adopt anti-racist approaches that bring out the differences and challenges the stereotypes.
    • Tom
      "and who actually banned St George Day’s parades in UK? and why?"

      In London there have been SGD celebrations funded by the GLA for several years, although Boris likes to pretend they're his idea and the BNP like to pretend they pressured him into holding them.

      "Of course they’re idiots, but lots of people are."

      The problem, as with so much else, is people pretending things are true that aren't, and the media reporting the pretence as fact because it's easier and more sensationalist.
    • Dalbir
      and who actually banned St George Day’s parades in UK? and why?

      No one banned them. People just stopped turning up. Presumably because of the shame they felt during Morris dancing demonstrations?
    • The Queen of Fiddlesticks
      I'm sorry but there were parades canceled - all for different reasons.


      I agree with Steve ....
      I am always out talking to actual people ... people from every part of the world, people from every community. I know it changes me, my views and understandings in everything and I know from the amazing group of friends I have now gathered, it raises all levels of consciousness.
      At the same time you have to accept there will be some either unable or unwilling to rise.
      Though from your side I have never been able to get a definite definition for "multiculturalism"
      some interesting comments here about what diversity actually means ...

      I think it is a talent to be able to listen to what other people say and remain non judgmental.
      There are so many questions to ask ... if these people say their town is being overtaken by Muslims, you have to hear them say it .... and find ways to deal with their fears that do not fuel battles. And I am sorry but cultures moving into a new culture need to adapt and integrate as well .... and understand their right to respect their own culture too.
      there are pros and cons to look at from all sides, and I don't know the answer right now.

      Really the whole world is going through this right now ... I like to reefer to it as labor pains ... What will the baby be?
    • indie listener
      pictures of today's riot in Birmingham

    • Moss
      Everything the EDL should know about Islam is listed at The Religion of Peace™ Subject Index
    • Jamil
      More EDL supporters will be at the next demonstration make no mistake.
    • Rob
      I condemn the actions of this group who have nothing to do with the BNP and the BNP distance themselves from this group.

      However what they say in the paragraph above about muslims is actually very accurate!
    • persephone
      @32 " However what they say in the paragraph above about muslims is actually very accurate!"

      So no real true distance or condemnation then
    • camilla
      oh remind me ... who started the fight this time?

      not muslims? never muslims?
    • Oi boy grown up
      As a former early 80's Skinhead and ex football hooligan myself I have no doubt whatsoever that the EDL is a front for the nazi BNP. You can see by their body language in the videos from sept 5th in Birmingham that they were there to provoke and if poss give someone a kicking. (but they spent all day runnin away, didn't they, hehe). They say they're not going back to Brummy in order to spare the police but the reality is they were badly humiliated. They've got loads of mouth when there's a police line in front but leggit when that's not there.
      My message to muslim youth is to protest en masse (Peacefully) together beside all other anti fascist organizations whenever and wherever and not as a seperate mob, cos if you do it will only play against you.
      And none of that Allah akbah chanting stuff either.

      Looks like the police worked methodically and well in a difficult situation.
    • camilla
      my message to muslim youth is to protest en masse ALSO against muslim extremists (like Choudary) ...
      maybe even violently against Choudary...

      strange, muslims arу sooo shy and busy when it comes to expressing their negative attitude to the extremists in their community...

      personally I don't really see why should I distinquish and separate muslims from extremists, if muslims are not ready to do it themselves
    • Abdul Abulbul Emir
      Some of my best friends are BNP.
      I think the way ahead is to ban alcohol bacon butties and all sorts of carry on.
      Let these white boys have more than wife (see how they like that).
      I can then employ them in my taxi and take away businesses. I'm getting fed up with crafty brown faces around me all day.

      Let's have a few simple white ones.

      Peace be upon me.
    • anobody

      strange, muslims arу sooo shy and busy when it comes to expressing their negative attitude to the extremists in their community…

      Do you come out singing and dancing every time there is a crime committed in your community? You must have a fair few "not in my name" t-shirts.
    • Rumbold
      Heh Anobody.
    • Don
      I just saw this,

      the BNP distance themselves from this group.

      Wow, who do have to be that the BNP want some distance?
      It's like being too creepy to hang out with Gary Glitter.
    • camilla
      oh, don't compare "crime" - that unfortunately can happen in every community - and open praise for terrorism, sincere and boastful declaration "Europe is the cancer, islam is the answer", "may Ben Laden bomb youЭб

      but I am sure, anybody, that you really sing and dance when some anti-European muslim protests occur, when deny it
    • Miss Rikweda
      @ Camilla, "personally I don’t really see why should I distinquish and separate muslims from extremists, if muslims are not ready to do it themselves"

      Shame you can't even spell 'distinguish', let alone have the brain cells required to understand that making such generalisations about a community is not only grossly offensive but also ridiculously simplistic. The majority of muslims do condemn examples of extremism within their community as they do with extremism within any community. Believe it or not, the majority of Muslim (and indeed, Asian, Black, Non-white) people are not motivated by an evil plot to overtake England and to ethnically cleanse it, but rather, are just like you in that they want a peaceful happy life with the opportunity to educate themselves and to succeed at whatever path they choose. Many work hard, pay taxes and feel strong bonds of loyalty to this country and to their local communities.

      Sadly the world is much more complicated than the 'us' versus 'them' mentality which you preside under. Racism and ignorance are not the answer. You should try making a Muslim friend- i'm sure you'll find that they are not too dissimilar to you in their likes, dislikes etc. This will hopefully bridge the divide which you currently live under.
    • qidniz
      And none of that Allah akbah chanting stuff either.

      Dream on. That has been the point all along. On both sides of the face-off.

      Better start practicing the zemnoy poklon right now. You never know when you'll have to show that you know how.
    • persephone
      " personally I don’t really see why should I distinquish and separate muslims from extremists, if muslims are not ready to do it themselves"

      I agree with Miss Rikweda in that this is a sweeping generalisation. Should you take the time to visit a vast number of the threads on just this site alone you would see that. Unless of course you do not want to & are happier to stick to this view rather than seek the truth.
    • camilla
      42 bla-bla-bla typical cliches... I stopped reading your bullshit after your stupid remark about my spelling

      english is not my native language, I don't even use it every day - so is it so grave to make some mistakes from time to time?

      I have noticed misspelling in some people's comments here - people who live in UK and supposed to speak English perfectly

      so Miss Rikweda it's obvious for me that when someone is so occupied with fiding faults in spelling - he (or she) has nothing to say

      you are ridiculous
    • camilla
      persephone I have been reading this site for some time and you know what? all I see it's theoretical denial of muslim extremism approval... but then it comes to actual events, incidents - there is always a justification of muslim violence "they have been provoked" and so on...

      by the way wasn't it some imam again who incited the desure to go and fight "some nazis", the edl? oh coincedence again! imams don't incite hatred in the mosques!

      I am really tired of muslims all over the world who are trying to make other people responsible for their reputation

      what is what people are trying to do here, on numerous threads, in a very shameful way
    • persephone

      Yes there are several who do get defensive and apologist. Happily when they do a larger majority of writers disagree and engage with them at length and quite vociferously, including myself. Sometimes they are pinned down with so much counter argument that they start to use more than one handle or just not reply..! (a syndrome that also happens with the far right apologists)

      A good example was the series of exchanges on this thread where several writers condemned comments defending such things http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5769#co...

      As to your comments regards imams - look at the mission of this site:

      " We frequently disagree with “community leaders”, race-relations experts or just politicians and commentators generally. To understand where we come from on these issues, see our mission statement. If you disagree with us then post your opinion underneath the article, but do so constructively"

      What further vilification are you seeking on a blog?
    • AnthonyS

      "Heh great move by those idiots to wear balaclavas. THAT doesn’t provoke any negative mental images now does it?"

      That must also mean that muslim women are idiots too because they wear balaclavas. Except they are not called balaclavas... they call them a 'Burqa' instead.
      Highly unhygienic too and the product of a male-dominated/barbaric religion called 'Islam'.

      THAT doesn't provoke any negative mental images now does it when you have to talk to one through what looks like a walking letterbox?
    • Abdul Abulbul Emir
      what looks like a walking letterbox?


      I find Fed X much better in case terrible mistake made.

      Peace be upon me.
    • kj
      Did anybody see the story of those two white teenagers who tortured those poor boys...all white people are evil because of this.

      Camilla, just becasue you have been taken for a fool, don't think everybody else is.

      EDP shares members with the BNP...But the BNP are playacting at being law abiding whilst instigating/encouraging these troubles and the ones in Ireland..all behind the scenes of course.

      Joe public Islam does have to stand against its own extremists, but will it while racist fools parade in our streets instead of supporting them..would you?
    • kj
      Burqa = habit...lets see some nun bashing on here then!
    • persephone
      @ 48

      Are you european? They also have some hygiene ism's about the british way of life. They see the lack of bidets in washrooms as unhygienic regardless of what is worn as outerwear

      As to a religion being male dominated & barbaric there are many religions which would be considered as such in their origins. Many, to a varying level of degree, still are male dominated – look at the struggle to get female priests ordained.

      I sense confusion over religion and so called 'cultural' practices that certain groups of people are adopting...
    • Miss Rikweda
      I feel it's necessary to point out that the wearing of scarves is not something that is confined to Islam but that women in Christianity also wore veils. Indeed, the various people who have pointed out the line of continuity between the religions are correct to do so. Like someone said earlier, Jesus is an important prophet within Islam and that both religions in their true form preach tolerance and acceptance.

      Camilla, I find it sad that you focused on the first line and failed to understand my wider point that you are grossly ignorant if you believe that all Muslims are extremists. It would do you good to bridge the divide that you currently live under by learning more about the religion which scares you so.
    • Abdul Abulbul Emir
      They see the lack of bidets in washrooms as unhygienic regardless of what is worn as outerwear

      When I first visited city of lights I thought it for washing babies in.

      Lady replied

      'No for washing out'.

      Can anyone explain please

      Peace be upon me.
    • camilla
      I understand your point, Miss rikweda, it's trivial attempt to drow attention away from discussing real problems

      I have learned much about your religion, it's funny the way you try to show me as an ignorant person... but actually I'm not

      I know much about your religion, much about its followers, I know much form real life also... the way you treat non-muslims in your countries and so on... how easily you kill people under the flag of Islam and incite hatred, and when trying to convicne that islam has nothing to do this it... it happend in my country also...

      what should a person think after such trcik? that muslims don't respect their own religion?

      so there is a lot of things to be scared about, really, and there ais no reason to trust people like you..

      Racism? stupid label... do you know what racism is?

      and by the way ... I understand, when you are pretending that someone is more stupid than you - it's helpful for you to overcome your psychological problems, but you should never forget - it doesn't mean that "someone" is really stupid, it's just you want him to be

      I don't believe that all muslims are extremists, don't speak for me please, I can speak for myself... there are quite moderate muslims, I know some of them, but when it comes to practising their religion properly I ask myself - are ther real muslims? I don't think so, they are just civilised people
    • Theologian of Birmingham
      Islam is a joke but nobody is allowed to laugh - not yet at least - but we can be hopeful for the future.
      Christians were also very serious about religion in the 15th century - no televisions or mobile phones back then back then ( Islam is in it's 15th century too ) but it takes 100's of years to become secular and learn to love your brother & sisters on earth instead of a figment of your supernatural immagination.
      Remember - MAN MADE GOD IN MAN'S OWN IMAGE and not the other way around.
    • BobH
      Fighting “with God /Allah on your side” to justify barbaric behaviour is a step back towards the dark ages.
      A real god would not want murder. Not even the murder of someone you might consider to be really evil.
      Open your eyes! Open your hearts and minds!
      Forget what the religious leaders tell you and think for yourselves.
      There is no Holy War unless you want one.
    • sidney
      Oh dear these EDL look like a skint version of the ku klux klan!
    • Miss Rikweda
      Camilla, I am genuinely interested...what country do you live in that is currently being overrun by barbaric Muslim extremists determined to end your way of life and subjugate not Muslims? I think that sadly you read the sensationalised media stories about muslim extremists (of which there are few....this does NOT represent the majority) and subsequently believe that the threat is bigger than it really is.

      What exactly are 'my people' like and what do you mean by 'your countries' - admittedly, the racism term doesn't technically apply though I'd be very surprised if you weren't pandering to some sort of prejudiced and semi- racist line in using those terms. I'd also like to point out that there are many White and European Muslims as there are Muslims from Africa and Asia. It is traditionally a religion of peace and any acts of extremism in its name is a sad distortion.

      While I hesitate to "speak for you' again, what you said above is that the moderate muslims are not the majority but rather, the exception, a few odd examples of 'civilised peoples'. This gives me hope that actually your views are subject to change because what you'll actually find is that these people are in fact the MAJORITY. AS with all religions, you get fundamentalists and extremists, but these are not representative of the religion as a whole.
    • audentior_watcher
      Camilla, dont forget to look under your bed every night, as they maybe some Muslim Monsters under there. Idiot.
    • audentior_watcher
      Camilla, dont forget to look under your bed every night, as there maybe some Muslim Monsters under there. Idiot.
    • Ralph Musgrave
      Miss Rikweda (No. 59) is naive if she thinks Muslims are not “overrunning” the UK. The Muslim population is expanding at TEN TIMES the rate of the rest of the UK population. See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/articl...

      While there are plenty of civilised Muslims, Miss Rikweda is also naive if she thinks the Muslim movement is not in the least “barbaric”. Like Hitler, Muslims regularly kill the authors and publishers who say things they dont like (or threaten to kill them).

      As Kenan Malik pointed out in an article in The Times, the battle for free speech in relation to Islam has been essentially lost. See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/column...

      She is also naive if she thinks it is not the objective of Islam to dominate the world. It’s their stated objective: they make no bones about it !

      I object to people arriving in my country from relatively backward countries, who try to attack one of the highest achievements of Western Civilisation: free speech. If they dont like free speech, then fine. They are free to go back to some fully Islamic country and enjoy the wonders thereof. But of course they dont want to go back. Why? Because they know in their heart of hearts that Islam is a bit of crass system, but they’re too intellectually dishonest to admit it.
    • Lee
      At yesterdays London protest the Muslims chanted Bomb Bomb Israel... And they get away with again like when they did that due to the danish cartoons...
    • David
      I have no problem with people coming to this country to start a new life. As long as that is what they do - start a new life.

      However, I am sick and tired of people coming here and hanging onto their failed religions - and as a consequence turning this country into the same third-world shithole that they were (presumably) only too happy to leave behind in the first place.

      And yes, these religions have failed. Otherwise why bother to leave them? Why bother to leave such a "perfect paradise"?

      These religions have so successfully ruined the countries they started in that anyone in their right mind would be only too glad to come here. And that's all right by me. Just leave your stinking so-called religion in your old country and START A NEW LIFE HERE
    • persephone
      David, depending upon your own (ancestral immigration) path to citizenship in the UK, I hope you see that it may be difficult for any of us to leave 'our' religion, language & country since a vast amount of it may be shared ancestry:

      Norse or Scandinavian mythology comprises the myths of North Germanic pre-Christian religion. Most of the written sources for Norse mythology were assembled in medieval Iceland. Norse mythology is the best-preserved version of wider Germanic paganism. Germanic mythology can be shown to preserve certain aspects attributed to common Indo-European mythology.

      The existence of similarities among the deities and religious practices of the Indo-European (IE) peoples allows glimpses of a common Proto-Indo-European (PIE) religion and mythology.

      PIE spoke a prehistoric language and its speakers cannot be assumed to be a single identifiable prehistoric people or tribe but rather a group of loosely related populations ancestral to the later, still partially prehistoric, Bronze Age Indo-European expansion movements, by the mid 2nd millennium BC reaching Anatolia, the Aegean, Northern India and likely Western Europe.

      Mainstream scholarship places PIE's in the general region of the Pontic-Caspian steppe in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. Knowledge of them comes chiefly from linguistic reconstruction, paired with material evidence from archaeology and archaeogenetics.
    • catherine
      First of all EDL are NOT right-wing facists as many proclaim ethnics from our country have joined in marching for the purpose of keeping christian laws in our own back yard.they want all races to defend whats rightly ours that is "freedom" which definitely isn,t being protected from the politicital parties apart from a couple I can think of, who made muslims such a SPECIAL case when Britain doesnt owe them anything anyway as their not part of our history,they shouldn,t be ransacking their ill- judged views on us to begin with and sharia law is the DEVIL IN DISGUISE doctrine that I wouldn,t wish on my own worst enemy let alone the great british people.uaf are CLOSET muslim fascists with a sinister agenda.i love being a christian i,m VERY proud and BLESSED and pratice my faith every single day until my death. plus what i consider a true privilage is being born with british blood its just a shame my british christian brother & sisters haven,t awoke from this extreme danger thats on our very own doorstep.please people lets take action before it becomes too late ,lord jesus is the saviour to mankind not MONEY.WAKE-UP britain.
    • Miss Rikweda
      62. I'm very entertained that you complain of crass beliefs and yet expound such vulgar and ignorant views yourself.

      I would get into a debate with you as to what constitutes a 'backward' nation and what it means to be 'civilised' but i fear that some of that conversation would go over your head since you are so stuck in your views. Indeed, it's difficult to believe that you are particularly civilised when I read some of the rubbish that you wrote above. You make me sad as do all of you who have depicted this whole thing in terms of a religious/ideological war. This leads me to question whether we will ever achieve a semblance of peace and humanity on this earth when people like you exist? I fear not.
    • Miss Rikweda
      And Catherine, it's hard to believe that YOU are a Christian. I'm pretty sure that your religion would not condone anyone propounding hate and prejudice as you did in your post. Whatever happened to following Jesus' example eh?! Go read your bible, love.
    • Andy
      When democracy fails. The people take to the streets.
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