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  • Technorati: graph / links

    East London raid


    by Al-Hack
    3rd June, 2006 at 7:12 pm    

    The Guardian: The raid on an east London house in which police shot a man yesterday was carried out because intelligence suggested that a viable chemical or biological weapon could be inside, according to counter-terrorism sources.

    More than 250 officers swooped on the house in the early hours, after a two-month surveillance operation led by MI5. Security sources say the timing of the raid was dictated by fears that an attack on a British target using an unconventional weapon could be staged soon. The shot man and a man believed to be his brother were arrested under the Terrorism Act.

    The Times: A desperate search is under way for a “chemical vest” that a British suicide bomber was ready to deploy in a terror attack on London.

    Police fear that the strike, using a home-made chemical device, was imminent after an informant told MI5 that he had seen the lethal garment at the home of two young men.

    MPAC: If British intelligence is anything to go by, we can only hope the sleeping Muslims of East London will wake up and rise against the tyrrany being perpetrated against our youth in the name of combating terrorism.

    In Canada, CTV reports: In a sweeping raid, police arrested about a dozen men in the Toronto area on terrorism-related charges Friday night, the RCMP announced.

    Intelligence sources allege the men were part of a terrorist cell, close to carrying out attacks on one or more Canadian targets. Police seized chemicals used to make explosives and weapons.

    The suspects are either second-generation Canadians or recently immigrated to Canada with their families.


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    1. Opinionated Voice

      [...] Pickled Politics has more. «« Previous: Internet Hunting… Beware Comments » [...]


    2. Serious Golmal » Blog Archive » Anti-Terror and Ethnicity

      [...] The NoTW dickweeds are willing to obscure any set of facts if they can throw in a Sky Network/Murdoch plug into their copy somewhere. As a sharp-minded commenter on Pickled Politics observed: “How enterprising that News International which owns both ‘The Sun’ and ‘Sky One’ should make use of this incident to publicise their fascist fantasy series”. Quite. [...]




    1. Kismet Hardy — on 3rd June, 2006 at 7:34 pm  

      Did dozens of heavily armed armour protected highly trained cops really shoot an unarmed, chemical vest-free kid in front of his mother?

      Tell me that’s not how it happenned.

    2. inders — on 3rd June, 2006 at 8:32 pm  

      I hear that they’re still searching for evidence of chemical weapons… where have we heard that before ?

    3. mirax — on 3rd June, 2006 at 8:33 pm  

      It seems to be the season for swooping down on ‘terrorists’- the Malaysian authorities nabbed a dozen a couple of days ago, with firearms and documents to boot.

    4. Douglas Clark — on 3rd June, 2006 at 8:57 pm  

      If it was a ‘given’ that these folk were as dangerous as we are now lead to believe, could we not have:

      determined at an early stage that the suspected ‘cell’ was a threat and disrupted it? If not, why not?

      determined, at a less lethal stage, whether or not a “chemical vest” was a reality?, rather than waiting until what seems like the eleventh hour?

      If someone who is killed, rather than shot which is a euphamism, is an innocent person where do relationships stop? He was the seventh son of the seventh son of a terrorist suspect? I think most folk in this country would assume innocence until guilt is proven.

      This whole operation stinks. Whether it turns out to be justified, it is still under Charles de Mendez rules. That it what is wrong.

      douglas

    5. Don — on 3rd June, 2006 at 9:26 pm  

      Douglas,

      Actually, it’s not under the Mendenez rules, if by that you mean the undisclosed and possibly unconstitutional change of operating procedures from disable as last resort to kill as plan A.

      This was either a reversion to established firearms procedure or someone fucked up.

      And for MPAC to start calling ‘Rise up’ is beyond irresponsible.

    6. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:51 am  

      I just caught the News of the World headline but didn’t have the stomach to buy it.

      250 cops sweep on one house and the man’s BROTHER decides to take it upon himself to shoot the guy?!

      Is that really what’s being claimed?

      Someone please tell me I haven’t gone mad.

    7. Sunny — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:11 am  

      They shot the guy in the shoulder, so he is definitely not dead.

      I’m a bit more worried about the Canadian news to be honest, given that the country has been quite peaceful. Hmmm…

      Kismet - the police shot the Bangladeshi guy, though in the shoulder. Try something a bit more upmarket next time!

    8. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:22 am  

      Get news of the world so I don’t have to! the front page insists the police ‘did not pull the trigger’

    9. Robert — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:44 am  

      determined at an early stage that the suspected ‘cell’ was a threat and disrupted it? If not, why not?

      After the De Menezes debacle, I do not have 100% confidence in the security forces to make the right call… However Douglas, I would suggest that if the police are apparently acting ‘later rather than sooner’ - as you imply - is a positive development.

      If the police are acting later in the course of an investigation, we would surely hope that they are acting on more and better information, and that the innocent are less likely to be harrassed/arrested as a result.

      Its an imperfect science, and of course we don’t know yet know whether those arrested in Forest Hill will be convicted of anything… but of all the things to be concerned about in this climate of fear, the idea that the police have taken their time to act is the least of our worries. Hard to believe in post-Stockwell London, but perhaps they were actually waiting until they had enough evidence!

      Indeed, I’ll bet many in this country would have preferred them to taker a more authoritarian line, and act sooner.

    10. inders — on 4th June, 2006 at 10:45 am  

      ‘Indeed, I’ll bet many in this country would have preferred them to taker a more authoritarian line, and act sooner.’

      Its a skillful master indeed who can get their slaves to love chains, and ask for more.

    11. Katy Newton — on 4th June, 2006 at 11:35 am  

      What I have read is that the brother tried to grab a gun from the police and there was a struggle during which the gun went off and shot his brother in the shoulder. (NB Douglas: “shot” is not an euphemism if the person who was shot was not killed. It is an exact description of what happened.)

      Having been one of the people who jumped up and down and changed their opinion very loudly every time something new was leaked after the Menenzes fiasco, I for one will be keeping my powder dry until the fuller picture is known. It wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out that what actually happened bears no resemblance to the current reports at all, but it also wouldn’t surprise me if it did.

    12. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 11:42 am  

      I’m going to put my cock on the line and insist it’s a police and intelligence fuck-up

    13. bd — on 4th June, 2006 at 11:50 am  

      In praise of Mail on sunday:

      “Has the ‘War on Terror’ lost its way? All too often it seems to be a pretext for the spreading of panic and the exaggeration of fear - combined with a failure to foresee or prevent actual outrages.

      We have had tanks uselessly deployed at Heathrow Airport, the non-existent plan to attack Manchester United, the fantasy plot to poison the people of London with ricin - and the shooting dead of a wholly innocent man, mistaken for a suicide bomber.

      And now we have the East London poison raid.

      This was no simple arrest. There are suggestions that it was preceded by lengthy and rather obvious surveillance. Then, in conditions of total publicity, the authorities deployed a force of police large enough to invade a small country and even imposed an air exclusion zone. A man has been shot and wounded. There is as yet no sign of the poisoned suicide vest supposedly being sought.

      A tip from an informant, grandiosely described as ‘intelligence’, suggested a serious danger. Quite properly, the police decided that the tip needed to be investigated. Presumably, their inquiries suggested that an arrest was justified.

      And from that point on, the matter is rightly one for the criminal justice system. But it is the manner in which the arrest was carried out that is questionable. Were the extraordinary numbers of officers really needed, when the public are constantly being told that there is not enough manpower available to deal with ordinary crime and disorder? Was the shooting a justified use of extreme force, or a needless bungle?

      If police were hoping to capture alleged terrorists in possession of dangerous materials, why was the area not evacuated first?

      The way in which the action was conducted kindles the suspicion that it had a propaganda purpose as well as a security purpose - that it was intended to demonstrate the vigilance and striking power of MI5 and the police just as much as it was aimed at collaring alleged terrorists.

      Coming so soon after the new Home Secretary’s self-publicising appearance at a raid on alleged illegal immigrants, and at the end of another disastrous week for the Government as a whole, it also raises another disturbing question: was the planning of the operation influenced by political considerations?

      Of course terrorism has to be fought and terrorists caught and punished. But subtlety and cunning are often better weapons in this battle than noise and bluster. And whose purpose does it serve by spreading alarm and fear? “

    14. Little Malik — on 4th June, 2006 at 12:03 pm  

      I knew the very second that that the news announced the death of Jean Charles that he had nothing to do with terrorism. Had the police found something incriminating at the scene, they would have announced it immediately. This seems to be the case here as well. The fact is, the Metropolitan Police have an absolutely dismal record of shootings. From Cherry Groce to Jean Charles De Menezes, I cannot recall a single instance of the Metropolitan Police shooting anybody who was actually armed with a loaded or real firearm. The vast majority of their shootings are against people who are entirely innocent and unarmed. Very often such people are ‘of colour’ and they are almost entirely of low income. This record of shootings is the clearest illustration of the purpose and nature of the Metropolitan Police.

    15. Katy Newton — on 4th June, 2006 at 12:59 pm  

      Kismet, I initially was convinced that the Menendez thing wasn’t a police cock up - *blushes* - which is why I’m definitely keeping my mouth shut this time. It would not surprise me at all if this turned out to be a mistake too, but I’m trying to keep an open mind.

    16. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 1:03 pm  

      Did you read the other day how a jilted man phoned an airline saying there was a bomb on board the plane his estranged wife was on?

      Police swooped, no one got hurt, but time was wasted, panic spread and fears of terrorism strengthened.

      All that because of one pissed off bloke.

      Now think about this: if you had an enemy, who was muslim, what better way to fuck his shit up than to pass on ‘tips’ and ‘intelligence’?

      What you don’t think if you made a call saying you strong reason to believe I’m making a bomb and passed on my home address they wouldn’t give me a flying visit?

    17. Rakhee — on 4th June, 2006 at 1:09 pm  

      Kismet, don’t bloody tempt me.

    18. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 4th June, 2006 at 1:11 pm  

      There seems to be no comparision between this case and Jean Charles, this was a planned raid not a paniced chase and no one died with 8 bullets in their head.

      Time will tell if there is a vest and what events happened in house that lead to the shooting.

      They got a bomb factory last year and it is unimaginable that there are not more in the pipeline.

      Lets hope that they got this one right, and if the vest exists it is found before we pour on to the tube system to go to work tomorrow.

      Malik: This record of shootings is the clearest illustration of the purpose and nature of the Metropolitan Police.

      yeah yeah yeah, the world is run by 8ft tall zionist joos, 9/11 was organised by the US, Elvis ate my baby and the Metropolitian Police are a death squad for darkies.

      Dickhead.

      You got any numbers to back up this poisonious BS?

    19. shariq — on 4th June, 2006 at 1:32 pm  

      I think Sunny is right about to worry more about the Toronto raid. I’ve always thought of Canada as being an excellent example of having multi-culturalism without ‘pc madness’, and sucessfully integrating minorities.

      From what I’ve heard all the suspects are naturalised Canadians.

    20. Sid — on 4th June, 2006 at 2:10 pm  

      What’s this about the guy was shot “by his own brother” as reported in the Scum of the World?

      The Scum also reports;
      “One line of inquiry was that the gas was to be released in a busy and enclosed shopping centre, which mirrors the current plotline in the Sky hit drama 24 starring Kiefer Sutherland.”

    21. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 4th June, 2006 at 2:12 pm  

      I think Sunny is right about to worry more about the Toronto raid.

      I hear what you are saying and if I lived in Toronto, not London, I’d agree.

    22. Katy Newton — on 4th June, 2006 at 2:24 pm  

      Sid, I read one account to the effect that the brother had grabbed a police firearm and the kid was shot in the resulting struggle. I can’t now remember where I got it from but it wasn’t the News of the World. I still don’t know what to think about any of it but the more I hear about it the less convinced I am that the intelligence behind this was reliable.

    23. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 2:33 pm  

      “I think Sunny is right about to worry more about the Toronto raid.”

      Sunny is often right. He is the hero and truth-campaigner about the ills of terrorism.

      What we should worry about is the refusal to hold an independent inquiry into the London Bombings and the New York 9-11 attacks…this is urgently required so we can understand and put an end to terrorist activity which has been more active in recent years and ironically when nations have united and implemented anti-terror legislations - terorrism continues to happen, we are told we need new policies to “fight terrorism” which is coming out of tax payers money, civilians have paid their lives, yet our government still refuses to hold an independent inquiry. Does our government care about us or do they have vested interested elsewhere…

      To date, not one piece of evidence has been released that could be used to convinct someone in a court of law for what happened on July 7th and the government still has no plans to organise an Independent Public Inquiry into what happened…how sad

      Yet the government and its supporters can tell us we are “fighting terrorism” interesting, when we don’t even have the answers to where this “terrorism” is coming from…

      SEEK THE TRUTH PEOPLE.
      ITS A MUSLIMS DUTY TO SEEK THE TRUTH, DO NOT BE FOOLED OR CONVINCED BY WHAT YOU READ IN WESTERN MEDIA….they told you MR MENEZEZ was wearing a big coat, he was suspicious, he leaped barriers which resulted him being killed in a execution manner….ask yourself about the OLD TRAFFORD BOMB PLOT and the MANCHESTER “RICIN”eers….The Birmingham City Centre Evacuation. SUBSTANCIAL evidence is available, these operations /raids did not have any sufficient evidence to be conducted, but the Media/Government instigated fear…in fact MR COLIN POWELL at the UNSC prior to the Iraq invasion made reference to the BRITISH RICIN PLOT…what a top piece of propaganda.

      muhahaha evil evil

    24. the unseen — on 4th June, 2006 at 2:59 pm  

      You are spot on Waxon, as I was reading Currnet Affairs message board, you always made clear and accurate points supported by evidence. You are very intelligent. You highlight the propaganda and argue against the statement very well.

      I was influenced by newspapers and media, now I have seen a different perspective to what has really happened, in fact it has opened my eyes to all the lies and deceit of the so-called ‘War on Terror’.

    25. Sunny — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:07 pm  

      Have they let you out of the asylum already waxon?

      yeah yeah yeah, the world is run by 8ft tall zionist joos, 9/11 was organised by the US, Elvis ate my baby and the Metropolitian Police are a death squad for darkies.
      the friendlyinfidel you’re being rather harsh and out of order. LittleMalik said nothing about “Zionist joos” or that it’s a conspiracy.

      But we all have a right to be suspicious about well publicised massive swoop operations by the police which have almost always resulted in nothing.

    26. Sunny — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:08 pm  

      Lol! Waxon you think I can’t tell that ‘the unseen’ and you are the same person? Stupid boy.

    27. Tanvir — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:12 pm  

      When did Canada take part in invading/persecuting/or giving away someone else’s land anyway?

    28. Tanvir — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:14 pm  

      Maybe waxon and the unseen share the same computer, and are best mates hehe

    29. Sid — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:16 pm  

      Waxon and the Unseen twins. For they are three.

    30. Little Malik — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:20 pm  

      TheFriendlyInfidel. “The Metropolitian Police are a death squad for darkies. Dickhead. You got any numbers to back up this poisonious BS?” How kind of you to ask! There really is no need for rudeness, though. In your quest for evidence, you might wish to check this site and follow up links http://www.uffc.moonfruit.com/ It is the site of the United Friends and Families Campaign - that is, the friends and famillies of those killed by the Metropolitan (and other UK) Police.

    31. Little Malik — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:25 pm  

      Sid. ““One line of inquiry was that the gas was to be released in a busy and enclosed shopping centre, which mirrors the current plotline in the Sky hit drama 24 starring Kiefer Sutherland.” How enterprising that News International which owns both ‘The Sun’ and ‘Sky One’ should make use of this incident to publicise their fascist fantasy series.

    32. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:31 pm  

      “9-11 was organised by the US”

      There is considerable evidence which indicates this.
      http://www.911truth.org (a support website for the re-opening of the 9-11 inquiry and is supported by the Victim’s families who lost their lives in the attacks, politicans and millions of people around the world.

      David Ray Griffin and Nafeez Ahmed have written extensively on the subject.

      Have a read, you may learn something!

    33. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:33 pm  

      “Maybe waxon and the unseen share the same computer, and are best mates hehe”

      Yes we certainly are, but please do not let this minor detail cloud your judgement over my post. I just ask you read and do some research….

    34. Little Malik — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:39 pm  

      TheFriendlyInfidel. When you have finished your reading on the United Friends and Famillies web site ( http://www.uffc.moonfruit.com ), you should then go to the web site of the Stephen Lawrence Enquiry - there you will find out what evidence prompted Britain’s most senior police officer to admit that the Metropolitan Police were institutionally racist. http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/cm42/4262/4262.htm

    35. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:42 pm  

      Hi Sunny,

      the friendlyinfidel you’re being rather harsh and out of order. LittleMalik said nothing about “Zionist joos” or that it’s a conspiracy.

      Fair enough, I’ll moderate my tone. I do agree that we should question events like these, but I’m not to keen on being “suspicious”, being suspicious is activity looking for something wrong. In these instances the authorities should be considered innocent until proven incompetent.

      Mallick did not state any other point than the Metropolitan have a remit to kill unarmed poor people of colour. My post made the assumption that he also believed all the other urban myths as well.

      Lets check:

      Mallick do you believe that Zionists organized the 9/11? Have you watch loose chance consider it to be an accurate documentary? Do you believe shadowily Zionists run the entire world via the media? Do you believe was there a second shooter on the grassy null? Was the moon landing filmed on Earth in a set? It is all utter nonsense.

      Peoples appetite of urban myth is frightening. All this nonsense about the Da Vinci Code and The Blair Witch Project just goes to show how even when something is clearly labelled “fiction” people still want to believe that it is all true.

      Here is one of my favorite examples of people just not wanting to believe. The cows can be made to dance. Why have a independant enquiry when people will dismiss it if it doesn’t say what they want?

      TFI

    36. Abdullah Abdullah — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:45 pm  

      Hey Waxon did you see the latest 9/11 Video? What a crock eh?

      The one the U.S. Justice Department released last week of what appears to be American Airlines Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001.

      The right-wing mind control machine may have pulled the wool over the eyes of the ignorant red state masses, but when it comes to the finer intricacies of aeronautical engineering and aviation crash physics, they’re on Big Chuck’s turf.

      If there are two things I know, they are: 1) It’s not “kiddie porn” if the website says the babes are “barely legal”, and 2) a Boeing 757 doesn’t simply zip to the ground like a bullet and disintegrate on impact as if it had slammed into a reinforced concrete fortress at 400 mph. Anyone in the movie business will tell you that when a commercial aircraft crashes, it sort of glides down in slow motion, clips the guitar off the top of the Hard Rock Café, and then skids on its belly for about 13 blocks before screeching to a halt mere inches away from the edge of a cliff. Yet to this day, any photographs taken of the Pentagon crash site show very little debris, if any at all.

      You’d think that if Bush was going to stage a phony plane crash convincing enough to fool everyone but our most brightest Hollywood stars, he’d at least toss a landing gear or a section of the fuselage out onto the lawn. But the Shrub got cocky and slipped up. Now, when a majority of celebrities believe Bush personally flew into the Pentagon with a pair of ACME bat wings and a giant firecracker strapped to his back, out comes this convenient video. But nobody’s buying it, least of all Charlie Sheen.

      The video itself is of such poor quality. Moreover, The Pentagon can photograph me from outer space, yet they can’t put a camera in their parking lot capable of producing an image larger than three inches wide?

      I’m afraid that until Bush provides us with some better footage, or finally allows some independent metallurgists to analyze metallurgical data from all the supposed “debris” recovered at the “crash site”, the jury is still out on Bush’s innocence, as well as the fate of Flight 77.

    37. Bikhair — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:49 pm  

      The Friendly Infidel,

      Please dont give yourself that name. It is very derogatory. If you want to distinguish yourself from Muslims, it is better to say non-Muslim. To regard yourself as an infidel is like a person using a racial epithet to describe himself. It isnt provocative at all it is just stupid.

    38. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:50 pm  

      Little Mallick, it is one thing to say “unarmed poor coloured people get shot by the police all to frequently and This record of shootings is the clearest illustration of the purpose and nature of the Metropolitan Police.

      It is not the purpose of the police to perform ethically cleansing of unarmed poor coloured people.

      I’ll go check your links, but I doubt I’ll learn anything new.

      Try and be a little less paranoid and life will taste sweeter.

    39. Bikhair — on 4th June, 2006 at 3:51 pm  

      The Friendly Infidel,

      …or disbeliever.

    40. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:01 pm  

      The friendly Infidel says: ‘eah yeah yeah, the world is run by 8ft tall zionist joos, 9/11 was organised by the US, Elvis ate my baby and the Metropolitian Police are a death squad for darkies. You got any numbers to back up this poisonious BS?’

      The ‘truth’ that you hear and believe – why assume it would be free of propaganda and hidden agendas? You don’t think people in times of war will use strategy to their advantage?

      Were you there during any of these atrocities to really know what happenned?

      Don’t you think it’s an insult to your own intelligence to believe the version told to you by the people who are winning?

    41. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:03 pm  

      Hi Bikhair,

      Derogatory to who? I choose this handle some time ago as I felt that is was a bit of an oxymoron. I’m certainly not offended by it.

      I’m definitely one of the 4.5 billion non Muslims, so is it analogous to a black man calling himself a “nigger” not very PC but his choice?

      Perhaps if it isn’t provocative and just plain stupid it might be rather apt for me? Sticks + stones etc

      None the less I’ll have a think about updating it perhaps this on its own will do:

      TFI

    42. Little Malik — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:16 pm  

      thefriendlyinfidel. “It is not the purpose of the police to perform ethically cleansing of unarmed poor coloured people.” Hopefully, in an hour or two you will have thoroughly familliarised yourself with the evidence about the Metropolitan Police’s ‘institutional racism’ to deal with the substance of my point rather than your bawlderized (sic) version of it. I neither said nor suggested that the purpose of the police (at present) was to carry out genocide. However, what is true is that there are clear conflicts of interest in this society. In 10 Downing Street there lives a notorious serial war criminal. He is not the only one. Yet, the Metropolitan Police always seems to shoot poor and/or black people. Why is that? I suggest to you that the role of the Metropolitan Police is to defend and facilitate the exploitative and oppressive actions of the British ruling class - while simultaneously oppressing those social groups which the British ruling class wishes to be oppressed. To believe anything else is simply naive.

    43. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:18 pm  

      Don’t you think it’s an insult to your own intelligence to believe the version told to you by the people who are winning?

      I do hear you, but just making up stuff based on half truths isn’t the solution. BTW who is “winning” here? I only see everybody “losing”.

      You have to question everything in the media, the are terrible for misrepresenting things. That is why you need to take everything with a pinch of salt and read from multiple sources, and listen to other peoples points of view.

      However the BIG things are broadly true, people pour over them and it where there are question marks or holes people rip them to bits. It is expectionally difficult to hide things in this modern world. For instance we know that De Menezes got shot and killed, “they” didn’t make it up or hide it (yeah yeah I know the police brushed over it to start with, but that was incompetence in my opinon)

      How do we know that Iran exists? How do we know that they desire Nuclear weapons? I’ve never visit the country and I’ve never seen one of these reactors they are building.

      Do you doubt that Iran wants nukes?

      TFI

    44. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:22 pm  

      The Friendly Infidel,

      …or disbeliever.

      Bikki, same ole… its high time to stop spewing your wahhabi crap every other post.

      Neeways, i’ll be done whid my exams on wednesday and (hic) i’m already celebratin! Will be flying down to good ole Mumbai on saturday… now dont get jealous u guys… i might check up on you from some mountaintop spa in Ladakh.

      Sayonara

    45. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:32 pm  

      Yet, the Metropolitan Police always seems to shoot poor and/or black people. Why is that? I suggest to you that the role of the Metropolitan Police is to defend and facilitate the exploitative and oppressive actions of the British ruling class - while simultaneously oppressing those social groups which the British ruling class wishes to be oppressed.

      So you are arguing the purpose of the police is to suppress the people that they don’t like? I suggest that you visit some other countries like China, Saudi or Iran to get some perspective. Places where people “disappear” a lot for saying thing about their self appointed rulers.

      Its not perfect here, but we have it good. We have freedom of speech, freedom of expression, we don’t have policitical disstends in prison. We don’t torture our own people. Our police rarely carry guns. If you fall in trouble with the law (yes much of the police are bigots and border on criminal, but this is not by intention and design of the ruling classes) the the CPS and your appointed lawyer will give you an oppotunity to have justice. To believe anything else is simply paranoid.

      I’m going outside for a walk now, its a nice day and the people on the street are friendly when I talk to them. I’m not sure what sort world you are living in.

    46. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:37 pm  

      Look i’m whid (hic) friendly infidel on this. Indian police or for that matter in any asian country they dont give two hoots for such fancy words as human rights. Metpol are far better than them any day.

    47. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:49 pm  

      I’ve been pulled over by coppers twice this month! Once cos he overheard me asking a businessman directions to subway and butt in wanting to know a) why I wanted to go to the subway b) where I was from. I told him subway, the place you eat.

      The second one followed me out of Boots (where he was hoping I’d shoplift) then gave me a warning for chucking my fagg butt on the floor (£60 fine next time, where are you from?)

      ‘so you are arguing the purpose of the police is to suppress the people that they don’t like?’

      Hell, yeah.

      But the joke was on them. Had they done their job properly, they’d have found 3 grams of smack in my pants

    48. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 4:59 pm  

      The second one followed me out of Boots
      Hmm… what were you doing in Boots anyway?… man thats gay…

      But the joke was on them. Had they done their job properly, they’d have found 3 grams of smack in my pants

      LOL 3 grams dude…

      Well only time a policeman questioned me was when i was at Waterloo with a bulky backpack chatting in Hindi with the guy at “Journey’s Friend”..

    49. Don — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:02 pm  

      Little Malik,

      I linked to the site you provided, and while I applaud the campaign I didn’t see any statistics to back up your assertions. It may well be true that;

      ‘I cannot recall a single instance of the Metropolitan Police shooting anybody who was actually armed with a loaded or real firearm. The vast majority of their shootings are against people who are entirely innocent and unarmed. Very often such people are ‘of colour’ and they are almost entirely of low income.’

      But you really do need figures to back that up. The most up to date figures I can come up with are 2004 -2005 ( http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-and-publications/publication/operational-policing/firearms_policestats04-05?view=Binary )which show about 16,000 occasions when fire-arms were authorised in England and Wales (about 3,000 in the Met.) and five occasions when the firearms were actually discharged (England and Wales). During the same period 12 police officers were shot, none fatally.

      I’m afraid I haven’t yet managed a breakdown of those five incidents, although I don’t doubt a high proportion of people on low incomes were involved, as areas of low income tend also to have high crime rates. Should you care to wade through them yourself, details of all fire-arm incidents are here;

      http://www.gun-control-network.org/GCN02.htm

      I don’t dispute the continued existence of institutionalised racism among the police, but your analysis;

      ‘the role of the Metropolitan Police is to defend and facilitate the exploitative and oppressive actions of the British ruling class - while simultaneously oppressing those social groups which the British ruling class wishes to be oppressed. ‘

      is over-simplified and as naive as you accuse others of being. So far we don’t have any useful information on the most recent incident, but jumping to conclusions based on your conviction that the police are no more the homicidal goons of an oppressive regime bent on exploiting and terrorising the populace is less than helpful. As for the police not at present being bent on genocide, remarks like that do lay you open to accusations of paranoid conspiracy tendencies.

    50. Don — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:05 pm  

      Vik,

      Get back to work. We’re expecting straight A*’s from you.

      Good luck.

    51. Sunny — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:07 pm  

      TFI - While I agree it’s rather silly getting all paranoid about stuff - considering you are not the subject of police harassment or paranoid eyes, it’s rather easy for you to castigate others who may be.

      Anyone has been continuously harassed by the police cannot dismiss such incidents in a blase manner so easily. And the stats prove it.

      Anyway, as I said before, I’m more worried about Canada. Waxon - take your 9/11 conspiracy bullshit somewhere else please. We try and have sane conversations here.

    52. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:20 pm  

      i will gladly take my “bullshit” elsewhere and let “your type of people” continue talking unsubstantiated nonsense.

      Its amazing how people cannot read / research anymore….they love playing the government line because this way “there group” can be seen to be “One of them” - i guess you have forgotten the colonial pasts of your mother country and cannot see any pattern…because “you are one of them” now…well done

      Not suprising.

      BTW - You can believe the official theory into 9-11, but you cannot prove it, its speculation.

      Do some research, if you want to believe it you can, but it says alot about the type of person you are, your background and your views….

      fools are everywhere.

    53. Katy Newton — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:20 pm  

      My friend, who is a mixed-race lawyer, is always getting stopped by the police. (In fact, he got so many producers from one particular officer that in the end the inspector at that police station actually had to make a general announcement that he shouldn’t be stopped anymore because the car belonged to him.) On the basis of that and plenty of other solid evidence I don’t think there can be any doubt at all that the police are quicker to believe that non-white people are up to no good than white people, and that needs to stop if different cultures are going to live happily side by side here or anywhere.

      Whether this latest raid is an example of that in practice or not, I don’t know because of the piecemeal release of news about it, but I’m not terribly optimistic.

    54. Abdullah Abdullah — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:21 pm  

      Sunny, before you jump to conclusions what happened in Toronto yesterday, we should remember that the only “crime” these young Muslim men have been accused of is possesing three tons of nitrate fertalizer. Canada is a large country (second largests according to my Economist Atlas) and I assume there is a lot of farming going on there. So why do you find it so odd that Muslims, who might jsut be interested in agriculture happen to possess a couple of tons of sheep poop.

    55. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:29 pm  

      why are you more “WORRIED ABOUT CANADA” ?
      “given that the country has been quite peaceful” - Yep them damn terrorist killers are everywhere, after the cold-war - the need for a new enemy, a new threat was needed and hey it was even documents in “PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY” - Have a read please if you can do that, its key stage 3 reading.

      Anywhoo….the thread of “islamic terrorism” is an excellent one, there are over 1 billion Muslims around the world, in every city and country - hence the threat can be anywhere and the threat is basically endless.

      Lrt’s create anti-terror legislations post 9-11 for countries to sign up to, where we share data/intelligence/trade/and offer other benefits…..lets install policies, but before we need to create a fear and witness terrorist acts to enable the vote and funding. Yep and lets refuse the public - an independent inquiry on these attacks, because its a waste of resources. How nice is our government….i guess some answers they just dont want us to know,

      but this doesnt matter if we are the ethnic spokespeople of the government, because we add colour to the government and show the rest of them, we are not like them, we are peaceful people….our religion/culture is of peace….

      If only they knew….hey

      Surely as a figure who loves playing the ethnic government spokesperson, you should first be worried about the welfare of the general British public. We are British right?

      SUNNY = “ETHNIC SPOKESPERSON FOR THE GOVERNMENT”

    56. Abdullah Abdullah — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:30 pm  

      Katy Newton,

      I too am mixed race(Octoroon)and am always getting stopped by the pigs. They always have an excuse: I’m driving too fast, recklessly, or wanting to give me a breathalyzer, or why I’m “cruising” certain neighborhoods.

      Its obvious that I’m being racially profiled or “driving while black”

    57. Old Pickler — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:33 pm  

      Indian police or for that matter in any asian country they dont give two hoots for such fancy words as human rights. Metpol are far better than them any day.

      Quite. Better coming from you, though.

      The same people who criticise the police for overreacting here, would no doubt watch Michael Moore’s tosh with glee and criticise the Americans for not having proper airport security.

      So, the police swooped, did they? Tough.

    58. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:34 pm  

      .assume there is a lot of farming going on there

      Given the weather they have over there i doubt it. After my trip to Canada on Christmas few years back, i stopped cursing our dear ole English weather…

      @Don: Don worry mate i think i’ve already got enough A*s … Only exam i got is geography GCSE on wednesday. Given the bloody procrastinator i am, i’ll start revisions on Tuesday nite..

    59. Abdullah Abdullah — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:34 pm  

      Waxon,

      Ooooh, your spa does look lovely. Is that you lying on the table getting your chest waxed?

    60. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:40 pm  

      Vikrant is a GCSE student?

      My faith in soulless student scum has been restored

      Bring on the revolution (and please, for god’s sake, some new drugs)

    61. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:42 pm  

      @OP;

      Well last year i was watching an Indian news channel. Kashmiri jehadis has taken some guy hostage. So after the hostage escaped leaving police free to brage in the fortress like house to overpower the terrorists. They didnt bother going in, they simply dynamited the house…

    62. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:45 pm  

      Are you from Kuwait?

    63. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:45 pm  

      Bring on the revolution (and please, for god’s sake, some new drugs)

      Lol!! wazza matter dude… tired of good ole coke?

    64. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:45 pm  

      Are you from Kuwait?

      who me?

    65. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:48 pm  

      Coke is so primrose hill circa 1997 (not that I was ever invited or know what I mean)

      No! Students in the 60s gave us LSD and weed, 70s gave us speed, students in the 80s gave us coke, students in the 90s (that’s me) gave you all ecstasy and all her best friends. All twinned with revolutionary music that changed the world I tell thee.

      What have the new gen given us except alco-pop and grinding to the cockbucket usher?

      Get out there and start something dangerous Vik (and I don’t mean asbos). Yes you. I’m watching you

      (hic back atcha)

    66. Abdullah Abdullah — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:49 pm  

      Apparently the much feared backlash against Canadian Muslims has started.

      http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/04/mosque-vandalized.html

      “Akeem Quzi, 12, said there have already been some incidents.
      While he and other boys were inside the mosque studying the Qur’an Saturday, some children outside kept banging on the windows, he said”

      The Gora bastards!

    67. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:53 pm  

      Gora isn’t a nice word to use old chap

    68. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:55 pm  

      Hmm… only thing i do is an occasional ciggy, nothing else.

    69. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 5:57 pm  

      Abdullah Abdullah,

      In all fariness, ‘Gora bastards’ (Gora == white, mindya it is considered a derogatory term) doesnt go down well with the progressive (not to mention pinko) feel of this website.

    70. Sunny — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:01 pm  

      Waxon, it doesn’t surprise me you’re making excuses for the Canadian kids. Let me get this straight. A bunch of kids between the ages of 19 and 24, who have nothing to do with farming, are found with tons of fertilizer, which just so happens can be used as explosive.

      Maybe they thought they’d buy the fertiliser before they bought the farm eh??

      Is it any wonder no one is taking you seriously?

    71. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:09 pm  

      I remember the days students would buy fertiliser for the innocent habit of nurturing drugs

      Oh and gora isn’t pinko. Gora is like nigger. I can call usher a cockbucket but I’d be an arsehole to call him a nigger.

      I’m an arsehole for other reasons, but not one that white washes or blacks out a whole race with the same brush

      My cock’s kinda pinko though

    72. Old Pickler — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:12 pm  

      You keep talking about your cock. Are you trying to talk it up?

    73. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:19 pm  

      Well i havent excused or justifed anything, i have no idea where you have picked this up from….i guess you have picked this up, like the CIA are picking “terror suspects” in planes across Europe - an illegal activity.

      :)

      “A bunch of kids between the ages of 19 and 24, who have nothing to do with farming,”

      I havent read about the Canadian case, but my god having anything these days can be interpreted as a terrorist weapon….thank god for the “glorification of terrorism” bill….i guess its no more “che guevera t-shirts” being sold on our high-streets.

      The Manchester Ricin-eers terror suspects was hilarious, how the media and minisrers gleed with joy about terrorists on British soil and presented forward ideas to to eradicate the threat, at the cost of the tax payer of course…and then what do we find, the Men were innocent - there was no ricin, its a shame our media did little to update the general public on these events, but i guess the damage had already been done, the propaganda had worked succesfully, whats a bigger threat then creating a panic over one of Britons number one love - FOOTBALL. Its not suprising the Israelies have forewarned about “terrorist activity” in tbis years world cup from Iran….lmso

      Is it any wonder people are asking questions, because they can see how the government is manipulating us and changing stories and more importantly denying the great British people the right for a public inquiry into the London bombings…

      we are great british people arent we sunny? is that patriotic enough…

      muhahah im evil, but your evil is dangerous and complicit - it reveals a lot about your character and your background….oops i cant bring religion into it, unless your muslim, then its ok, because this is now an acceptable threat….oh yeh of little faith….follow the light to christendom, lets drop thousands of bibles on to the streets of babylon….

      WAR ON TERROR - hilarious.

      the roots of terrorism is clear, if you can’t see it. i guess you get some sheep’s eyes. because they see everything bah bah bah bah

      where was this terrorism pre-9-11

    74. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:25 pm  

      Old Pickler: ‘You keep talking about your cock. Are you trying to talk it up?’

      talking to it no longer works. It stopped believing me long ago. I now owe it all to http://www.PumpingPenisPistons.com

    75. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:25 pm  

      where is this terrorist on 9-11 and post 9-11 where did it come from? why are we being denied inquiries….

      imagine if a Muslim country invaded an oil-rich Caucasian Oil country without a UN Resolution, for whatever thats worth, killed hundereds of thousands, forced devastating policies on the country, stole billions of dollars and there oil…..what would be the outcry…lets nor forget the pillaging and massacres of civilians.

      i guess the Muslims would prove themselves to be money hungry and savages.

      muhhaha evil people. we know who they are…

      so do you know much about partition, how the British paid off different groups to kill each other…or should we forget that dark history

    76. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:26 pm  

      where is this terrorist on 9-11 and post 9-11 where did it come from? why are we being denied inquiries….

      imagine if a Muslim country invaded an oil-rich Caucasian Oil country without a UN Resolution, for whatever thats worth, killed hundereds of thousands, forced devastating policies on the country, stole billions of dollars and there oil…..what would be the outcry…lets nor forget the pillaging and massacres of civilians.

      i guess the Muslims would prove themselves to be money hungry and savages.

      muhhaha evil people. we know who they are…

    77. Katy Newton — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:36 pm  

      Kismet’s cock is practically a commenter in its own right.

    78. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:40 pm  

      Fame at last!

      He says

    79. Sunny — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:47 pm  

      Oh god, can we at least please keep this thread serious? Leave that for a weekend thread or something…

    80. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:49 pm  

      Kismet, whats pink and hard in the morn? guess…

    81. Vikrant — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:50 pm  

      Sunny you didnt have an open weekend thread this time (is it coz me,raz and rohin kept posting porno links?)

    82. Sunny — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:54 pm  

      Well i havent excused or justifed anything, i have no idea where you have picked this up from….

      You haven’t read anything about the Canadian case Waxon, but you refuse to believe there could be Muslim kids brainwashed into joining the suicide bomber cause?

      What will it take? You narrowly escaping a bomb in central London by one of these idiots before you realise there is a problem with some of these idiots? You’ll still probably believe its one massive CIA/MI5/Mossad conspiracy.

      Let me jog your memory a bit.

      On the tape Jawad Akbar: “What about easy stuff where you don’t need no experience and nothing and you could get a job, yeah, like for example the biggest nightclub in central London where no-one can even turn round and say “oh they were innocent” those slags dancing around?

      Omar Khyam: “If you get a job in a bar, yeah, or a club, say the Ministry of Sound, what are you planning to do there then?”

      Jawad Akbar: “Blow the whole thing up.”

      Omar Khyam: “That’s what I’m saying.”

      Jawad Akbar: “I think the club thing you could do, but the gas would be much harder. There’s people who even get in with their searching stuff but it’s only bouncers that search you.”….

      Still a CIA conspiracy is it? Those were “brothers” in London on tape with that conversation. In front of a jury. I expect you think that’s also a big conspiracy.

    83. Katy Newton — on 4th June, 2006 at 6:54 pm  

      Frankly, it’s a great deal more serious than trying to deal with Waxon, a man who admits he hasn’t read about the Canadian case but still manages to construct a conspiracy theory around it.

      Did you have a weekend thread?

    84. waxon — on 4th June, 2006 at 7:09 pm  

      Or we could have that Black lady from Big brother who has been alledged to watch Hitler videos to motivate her - maybe should be up in courts on terror charges.

      Sunny i like the way you have referred to “another case” to establish your arguments, what wrong - can’t be bothered to read.

      anywhoo lets focus on this claim you make which you try and blend (unsuccessfully) with other terorrist plots.

      “Muslim kids brainwashed into joining the suicide bomber cause?”

      Provide evidence of this “brainwashing”

      I would love to see this, this was the exact line the government had taken post 7-7 and they distanced themselves from this line when they decided to release there “version of events” - “official narrative”….lmao you really cannot think for yourself can you…you just love absorbing what your television set tells you…

      And as you mention “suicide bombers cause”
      Can you tell the great british people what the cause is? so we can all understand better…

      please try and source it if you can, preferably not from whitehall sources or these “terror experts”.

      Laughable. I am astonished at your stupidity. As I have always maintained anyone is capable of terrorism. I have never rejected the idea of Muslims being incapable, just like i do not reject the idea of Sikhs being able to commit terrorist atrocities….

      You like mentioning the religious factor, because it suits your interest…it gives you something to blame.

      Oh that damn Mouassassi admitting to 9-11 and another fake Osama pleading his innocence and mentioning the so-called 19 hijackers, whom several are still alive….my dear god what is wrong

      Have you read George Orwells 1984

      I suggest you read…..maybe you should read the Qu’ran - learn some wisdom and learn to seek the truth.

      Does you religion seek you to learn the truth?

    85. Kismet Hardy — on 4th June, 2006 at 7:17 pm  

      “Those were “brothers” in London on tape with that conversation. In front of a jury. I expect you think that’s also a big conspiracy.”

      What if these poor unemployed disaffected youths were given hope by being asked to audition for a play, thinking it was written by Nirpal Singh Dhalliwal, when in reality it was penned by Gleuteus Maximus, the secret scriptwriter for the CIA.

      How do you know that’s not the case?

      Have you heard the big-up shite brothers talk to each other about? When you overhear them in their motors, you think ‘horseshit’. Why is it so pertinent once it’s printed on paper?

    86. Little Malik — on 4th June, 2006 at 7:18 pm  

      Don. “the police are no more the homicidal goons of an oppressive regime bent on exploiting and terrorising the populace” I did not say that ‘the police’ were ‘homicidal goons’. I merely pointed out that the police - as in all countries- represents the interests of the state. Britain, like most countries, has a ruling class which is virtually immune from police aggression - despite commiting indictable war crimes such as launching unprovoked attacks against defenceless soveriegn states. Police aggression is instead directed at the most vulnerable elements of society, the poor, the young, visible minorities. Perhaps you imagine ‘institutional racism’ to be some sort of friendly masonic handshake? It isn’t.

    87. Don — on 4th June, 2006 at 8:11 pm  

      Little Malik,

      No, I don’t think institutional racism is a friendly masonic handshake, how did you get that impression?

      Obviously, the elite in all countries have a different relationship with the police (deferential, bloody cautious) than the poor and perceived ‘troublesome’. If that’s all you’re saying, fine. I just felt you were over-stating your case without backing it up. And using very hyperbolic rhetoric to do so.

      Much as you are doing with the ‘Blair is a serial war criminal’ line. I’ll accept that Iraq was illegal as most reasonable people would define it (although I suspect a viable legal case might be more complicated) but ‘serial’?

      I can only assume you mean that every time Blair committed UK troops overseas - Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Macedonia, Afghanistan - it was a war crime. I believe (although I stand to be corrected ) that only in the case of Sierra Leone did Blair act without UN authorisation. Was SL a war crime?

      Or you mean that every illegal act committed by UK troops in Iraq is supported and guided by the PM.

      I’m not used to being a cheerleader either for the cops or Blair, but I think you are asserting more than you can support. And you certainly implied that the police were homicidal goons.

    88. Little Malik — on 4th June, 2006 at 11:32 pm  

      Don. “I don’t think institutional racism is a friendly masonic handshake, how did you get that impression?” Because, when I described the police as ‘oppressing [certain] social groups’ you said I was naive.

      My point is that ‘institutional racism’ is a euphemism for the oppression of certain social groups. Describing oppression as oppression is neither ‘hyperbole’ or ‘overstatement’ - it is just accurate.

      From my perspective, the acts of aggression ordered during the invasion - bombing, shelling and occupation were criminal. I do think Bush and Blair should be indicted.

      Obviously, such an accusation is deeply disturbing to all of those who accepted the assurances of the Attorney General that those acts were legal.

      However, if I kill - having been assured that my act was legal by my lawyer - I suspect that my lawyer would end up in the dock with me.

    89. jamal — on 5th June, 2006 at 12:17 am  

      so many hours of intelligence, 250 police, and they shot an unarmed many and brutalised their next dooe neighbours. Something sounds very wrong about all this.

    90. Ravi Naik — on 5th June, 2006 at 9:09 am  

      From London Times:

      “At the time of the 9/11 attacks, MI5 knew of about 250 “primary investigative targets” inside Britain. By July 7 last year that had risen to 800. Today it is more than 1,000. Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, had revealed how three attacks had been foiled since July 7 that were likely to have caused many more deaths than the 52 killed in last summer’s suicide bombings[...]Today’s terrorists are suburban men who neighbours invariably describe as “hard-working, respectable and British to the core”.”

      I really hate it when they say potential muslim terrorists are hard-working, respectable and integrated into british society. Given the fact they are brown, I wonder the perception that people will have of us who like the terrorists share these qualities.

      It’s time to blame someone, and I would definitely blame the parents who neglect the education of their children and who delegate their education in faith-based schools, who seem to be a fertil ground for terrorist activities. So, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is killing Iraquis every day, but these fuckers get fired up when Americans screw up.

    91. S — on 5th June, 2006 at 9:10 am  

      “I can only assume you mean that every time Blair committed UK troops overseas - Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Macedonia, Afghanistan - it was a war crime. I believe (although I stand to be corrected ) that only in the case of Sierra Leone did Blair act without UN authorisation. Was SL a war crime?”

      No Sierra Leone was definitely UN sanctioned. The odd one out there is Kosovo in which NATO totally ignored the Russina and Chinese veto in the security council. Good thing too IMO.

    92. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 5th June, 2006 at 10:50 am  

      TFI - While I agree it’s rather silly getting all paranoid about stuff - considering you are not the subject of police harassment or paranoid eyes, it’s rather easy for you to castigate others who may be.

      Sunny I have much sympathy for those that are suffering as a result of the police incompetently looking for a mass murderer wannabes. But I defy anyone to tell me that we ought NOT be looking for these people before they make their explosive entry into our public transport systems.

      It is one thing for people to be upset about perceived or real harassment resulting form incompetent racial profiling (for instance there is no reason to be suspicious of Hindu people for example). But it is another thing to call for Muslims to “rise up” or to call the Met “homicidal killers”. Those opinions should be treated with distain and ridicule.

      Anyone has been continuously harassed by the police cannot dismiss such incidents in a blase manner so easily. And the stats prove it.

      The stats prove what? That police harassment is real? That isn’t breaking news.

      Anyway, as I said before, I’m more worried about Canada.

      But why and for what reason? I’m far more worried about mass murder happening in my home country than anywhere else. In terms of world stability I’m more worried by the happenings in Iran or Palestine. What is happening in Canada is just a sign of the times: Young, immature impressionable, male Muslims eating too many urban myths without question, reading to many war orientated passages from the Q’uran while dreaming of Jihad, spending to much time agreeing with each other that Zionists rule the world and worrying about their “brothers and sisters” in places that they have never visited who don’t give a toss about westerners irrespective of their religious beliefs. When this self injustice gets to much these young, immature, impressionable young men attempt to perform mass murder amongst there own country men in an attempt to make a political point, to gain notoriety amongst the living (ie. ‘martyrdom’) and have a group sex party amongst 72 sexually inexperienced women.

      Tell me that is not how it happens.

      Waxon - take your 9/11 conspiracy bullshit somewhere else please. We try and have sane conversations here.

      Here, here. 9/11 definitely happened it is not made up story like can be found in the Q’uran or the bible but something that you can see and touch. Was there incompetence? Yes. Did the authorities have enough information to stop it? Most likely. Was this a modern day Perl Harbour? It appears not, but we won’t know all the details until for many years to come.

      TFI

    93. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 5th June, 2006 at 10:59 am  

      It is one thing for people to be upset about perceived or real harassment resulting form incompetent racial profiling (for instance there is no reason to be suspicious of Hindu people for example). But it is another thing to call for Muslims to “rise up” or to call the Met “homicidal killers”. Those opinions should be treated with distain and ridicule.

      By this I don’t mean “target all Muslims”, I just mean that targeting Asians is COMPLETELY wrong headed. Unfortunately when they find a terror cell with a bomb factory it is invariably going to be amidst a bunch self righteous, highly indignant Jihad loving Muslims.

      Unfortunately we do need to keep an eye on these extremist Muslims, just like we need to keep an eye on extremist animal rights groups. This is for the safety of us all.

      It is a great shame our primary tool for performing this job is the police. They aren’t exactly a scalpel.

      TFI

    94. sonia — on 5th June, 2006 at 11:08 am  

      oi leave the animal rights folk out of this!!

    95. sonia — on 5th June, 2006 at 11:09 am  

      why should anyone find it suprising that these ‘muslims’ are rising up and calling the Met ‘homicidal killers’ - why surely they’re following the same patterns of behaviour everyone else has displayed - a few Muslim terrorists and suddenly all muslims were ‘homicidal maniacs’ …

      see any similarities in the paranoia???
      :-)

    96. TheFriendlyInfidel — on 5th June, 2006 at 12:05 pm  

      see any similarities in the paranoia???

      Absol-bloody-lutely! People are just reactionary dumb sheep.

      Some police are racist thugs, some Muslims dream of suicide bombing Martyrdom, some animal rights sympathizers think we are living in a holocaust.

      Sometimes it is difficult telling the Martys / thugs / sympathizers from the rest of the group, but it is not the case that the rest are the same.

      For instance not all English football fans define a “laff” by kicking the heads in of foreigners, but if you read the papers enough you could come to that conclusion.

      I hope you realise the importance of movements like PP, its the best way to combat ideas like “all Muslims / Asians want to kill us”

      TFI

    97. Kismet Hardy — on 6th June, 2006 at 5:38 pm  

      They beat up their neighbours.

      They went into their neighbours house and pushed them about to get information on the brothers

      Is this how they get their intelligence?!

      The fucking neighbours for fuck’s sake

    98. bd — on 6th June, 2006 at 6:22 pm  

      and so, the vultures descend:
      -Respect is leafleting the area to hold meetings
      - Anjum Choudry was on Sky News saying he’s to hold a protest after friday prayers.

      Oh brother !

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