Racism in Italy ramps up; no one cares
Claude highlights some craziness in Italy:
After a wave of ugly rhetoric and dubious policies, a number of northern Italian councils run by the far-right Northern League (Silvio Berlusconi’s biggest coalition partner in government) have gone on the rampage against anything foreign.
Top of the list, the town of Capriate, 20 miles from Milan, where the council announced a ban on kebab and ‘ethnic’ shops from the town centre. The news hasn’t reached the foreign press yet, so you’ll have to be able to understand Italian if you want to find out more here and here.
In a nutshell, a council ordinance tabled by the Northern League bans all ‘ethnic’ shops and businesses from Capriate town centre.
This is what happens when you have a population over-run by the sort of wingnuts who go around screaming about ‘dhimmification’ and ‘multiculturalism gone mad’. Italy is about half a step away from an official fascist state and yet hardly much is said about it. Why isn’t anyone taking the entire country to the European Court of Human Rights? Why aren’t we chucking Italy out of the EU?
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I’ve no doubt some on this thread will state the case that Italy on the whole doesn’t breach any of the conditions for EU membership, but certainly some councils are adopting stunts that might make for serious consideration of this move. Its very depressing, and so close as well. I’m a fash-nimby of the highest order.
Thanks for bringing this up.
Fucking deplorable. Berlusconi… how does he do it?
Any number of answers I reckon as to lack of vocal denunciation – appeasement, blind stupidity, hypocrisy, distractions, fighting, self-preservation, not knowing jack shit about it… you name it, it counts.
Again… Berlusconi, how does he do it?
Anybody been to Italy lately? What are the people thinking of their government and their ideology… do they share the State’s sentiments or what?
Can I suggest that all those shops that do sell kebabs, and have indeed been banned from the town centre in Capriate, come over to central London, where we are currently being over run by Starbucks and Costa Coffee selling capuchinos. I really do miss a decent Kebab when I am in London town.
They are closing down Kebab shops?
Jesus, there would be a full scale riot in every dilapidated town centre in the country over this shit!
‘kebab shops’ is the headline. They’re actually banning all ‘ethnic shops’… or in other words anything owned by a non-white.
Why isn’t anyone taking the entire country to the European Court of Human Rights? Why aren’t we chucking Italy out of the EU?
More importantly, why are we still in the EU?
Towns under Northern League control will continue to do their own thing until someone applies sufficient economic pressure on them by, for example, boycotting family-owned exporters from those towns.
The only people with the economic clout to bring the Northern League back in line are Arab governments. One particularly dastardly response would be for the Arabs to buy all the Serie A clubs and then systematically starve them of funds. The sheikhs could easily absorb the financial losses while kicking those pesky dhimmis where it hurts most.
Amazing! There are some politicians in Italy that are sounding like BNP politicians.
Only goes to show that we are all the same – unlike the views that the BNP or Lega Nord would have us believe!
sunny, ask anyone, non-immigrant – would he prefer to live in Intale of modern days or … in the country where policeofficers – women, non-muslims – are forced to put on head scraves to enter the mosque?
I would definetely prefer the first option
“This is what happens when you have a population over-run by the sort of wingnuts who go around screaming about ‘dhimmification’ and ‘multiculturalism gone mad’.”
funny, the situation with multiculturalism is optimal in your country?
this what happens when the country is ruled by nuts fighters for tolerancy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html
ooo, it is much better, don’t you think?
and the main point – none is screaming about dhimmification. what’s the point – it already happpened
are you really blaming the italians that they don’t what to give everything in their country to muslims?
I can’t blame them and I respect them for that.
your country is sick. native citizens are suppressed by muslims. and you what other countries to have the same disease, to be intimidated by tolerancy…
way to go italians
“The sheikhs could easily absorb the financial losses while kicking those pesky dhimmis where it hurts most.”
cauldron, just the way you opresse “pesky dhimmis” in Britain?
you must be so angry that they dare to resist – intimidate them like you did with poor british people
“What are the people thinking of their government and their ideology… do they share the State’s sentiments or what?”
I have benn to Italy this summer. Italian people think that it’s their country and want it to belong to their children, not to muslims – how original, isn’t it?
and how unnatural…
and again, how dare they????
Camilla,
How does banning Chinese restaurants have anything to do with opposing suppression by Muslims?
sunny mentioned kebab cafes or whatever… I have been to Italy few years ago also and saw muslim traders selling their goods in front of cathedral… that was awful…
of course there are a lot of things to start with in orders to oppose muslim invasion…
Ever heard of the phrase “ironic humour” Camilla? Tends to fall flat with Americans, I know.
I am not an American, Cauldron
people from this site sometimes write things here, that could sound like a joke in a sane society, but their further behaviour here proves that they really mean it… so, no wonder, that sometimes irony is hard to be identified
and I am not an oppressor of Dhimmis, Camilla.
Oh heck, first wicket down
Camilla,
What Cauldron said. The first bit anyway. (Chinese restaurants really are being banned though).
Plus, do you know what happened as the result of the story you linked to from the oh so unbiased Daily Mail?
The school did two things:
1. Investigated and found the newspaper reports to be inaccurate, concluding, “In reaching this decision, the governing body wish to make very clear that they were completely satisfied that at no point did that member of staff make children pray to Allah or put boys in detention for refusing to do so.”
2. Sacked the teacher anyway.
This Muslim suppression is a terrible thing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5406154/Teacher-sacked-after-parents-complain-about-Muslim-prayer-lesson.html
of course there are a lot of things to start with in orders to oppose muslim invasion…
Muslim Invasion eh? Thanks for letting us know about your state of mind.
That anti-foriegner feeling (if that’s what it is) probably feeds off situations like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RSzKngmBRw&feature=PlayList&p=FB161174404F0E55&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16
In Rome a few years ago I noticed this too in a few streets next to the main railway station. All the shops had become Chinese textile wholesalers.
I found those streets to be dull. No customers, just shop after shop with the same displays of cheap clothes and bored looking (young) Chinese staff inside.
So the small minded people of a small town near Milan are letting their prejudices get the better of them.
I think it’s OK not to like Kebab shops and those horrible fried chicken shops that we’ve got all over the UK. I much prefer it how it is in Spain or Italy. But you can’t be controlling them the way that it’s reportedly being done here.
In Palermo Sicily there are a surprising number of Chinese busnisess. Even in the back streets.
All kinds of businesses, and I noticed they very often had a couple of red Chinese lanterns hanging from the shopfront.
After I first noticed it, I then kept seeing them all over the place. If I was paranoid, I could have thought it was a (not so) secret way of the Chinese community to communicate their presence to each other.
There was me thinking all was rosey like this. How wrong was I!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frOl9mO7q6o
oh, sorry Sunny there is no such things as muslim invasion – there is only welcoming of lovely and adorable friendly muslims, making things easier for them all the way –
“no point did that member of staff make children pray to Allah or put boys in detention for refusing to do so.”
if it is a lie, when why sack the teacher? sacking for what not-happened?
The Italians have an immense suspicion and dislike of (non white) immigrants, so much so that it makes everyday things like renting a flat or opening a business, or even getting someone to come to your house and repairing things, really difficult…which is kind of ironic given how massive and sustained Italian immigration to other countries has been over the last few centuries.
It’s not just Muslims who are victims of this anti foreigner feeling, it’s South Americans, East Europeans, Russians, even South Italians are called “Morroccan” in the north of Italy.
“muslim supression is a terrible things”
actually it is… for non-muslims of course… to be precise
ever heard of christians burned alive recently in pakistan villiage – just because rumour had it some christians did something to Quran (of course there were just gossips) and mullah really wanted the retaliation …
“I am not an opressor of dhimmis”
but you use that word anyway… why so?
Oh, so it’s a little bit like Bermondsey then?
camilla,
OK, so you are not from the US, which would have given you the excuse of distance lending disenchantment, but I am from the UK, I am white and I don’t feel at all oppressed by Muslims. One of us is missing something here….
Dilbir, that part of London has a large non white (and largly immigrant) population. And more businesses opperated by non whites than you can shake a stick at.
It’s a bit of a slur on the local white population to say that.
And also, on that youtube you did @21.
It’s good to see that image of a harmonious coming together of peoples in Italy like that.
But I bet the conditions inside those cheese and ham production places are every bit as horrible as they are at the food processing plant I went to in London last week.
There it was a mostly Indian (and African) workforce too. Looked like exploitation to me.
And the Italian bosses who spoke were a bit patronising weren’t they? (”We like to hire whole families, brothers, uncles etc, as it makes a better workforce”)
I am sure, nas, they were… in a very traditional way for them. by the way, they are brainless animals
so you comparing banning shops to burning people alive? nice, muslim logic…
I think the Italians should start setting muslims on fire – purely because muslims themselves think it is ok…. I think you should understand and support it
by the way there Christians were of Pakistani origin themselves, so no invasion there
I wasn’t the first to use term “dhimmi”,so you are an idiot here
that is why I asked
the Christians are more than oppressed in countries like Pakistan – and it is never enough for you, nas?
their shops ans cafes are banned long ago – long before the italians started to do this – and you felt ok with that…
why are you so carnivourous towards christians? living in UK, feeling good – and still your happiness is not complete if the christians are not exterminated in muslim countries?
what is your problem, maniac?
Camilla,
“so you comparing banning shops to burning people alive? nice, muslim logic… ”
You really do have problems with irony, huh?
“hey the Pakistanis were just opposing the Christian invasion Camilla”
are you Pakistani yourself, nas?
Mate, people seem to be stuck in the 70s over there. I innocently stumbled into the area a few years ago and was met with abuse.
Look at these twats:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoRcOCO0e3A
Plus didn’t it have a NF council seat win in some local elections in 2007? Nice people.
Also, what do you call exploitation? I know that conditions in factories, warehouses are usually less than cushy. But grafters, graft and try and make something. I could make the same point about about the same exploitation within other sectors like teaching, where the little “extras” constantly expected from you (marking, lesson preparation etc.) That you have to do in your own time to meet deadlines essentially amount to unpaid work/slave labour.
Also hiring from within a clan isn’t as bad as you think. It has a sound logic behind it that I can’t be bothered to explain in detail. Suffice to say that a proficient elder working with other clan members would generally make management an easier task, as they are unlikley to excessively challenge him due to family protocol. Plus this would decrease the chances of excessive youthful mischief taking place.
5cc, there is always only a part of joke behind every joke – and a part of truth – a proverb from my country (I guess there is something similiar in your language)
I think nas really thinks so deep inside – but he dares to express it only as a joke – safely
“I think nas really thinks so deep inside – but he dares to express it only as a joke – safely”
Your psychic powers must be better than mine for you to work that out.
(That was irony. I don’t think you have psychic powers).
Camilla, I used the term “dhimmi” because Sunny did in his opening statement. As much as I like to sound off on whatever’s on my mind its always nice to refer back to phrases used by the original author of the thread, any thread. No big deal and no hidden mystery in any case.
say what you like about Cauldron Cam, but at least he passes the cricket test
do you even know what cricket IS?
“carnivourous towards christians” – yeh I was wondering what I wanted for dinner tonight…well if the italians are closing down the kebab shops then I fancy a christian instead…
Dalbir, from the youtube you just did of a National Front demo, it looks like their numbers are very small.
Not really worth mentioning I’d say.
But you’d have to expect a backward reaction to the change to this extreme (new) inner city multi-culturalism that we have in places like Bermondsey surely?
You couldn’t be really surprised if the old lumpen culture (that still remembers teddy boys locally) didn’t get the new reality of the council estate, and traditional shopping areas like Deptford Market (now changed very much from how they were).
Is an established Asian community like in you have in Southall or Sparkbrook that open to newcomers of another culture either?
How do the new Somalian community find it when approaching long established South Asian landlords when looking for places to rent?
As for the last point about hiring people within clan or family groups.
Doesn’t that feed directly into a BNP point of view that we are all essentially tribal and that it’s better to have a workforce (or council estate or village) where there is this deeper understanding between people?
I’m sure there is a logic to this hiring practice in Italy. It’s conservative, but I bet it has some benefit for employers.
It leads directly to racism though I think.
What about the election win in 2007. That would point a deeper issue in the area than one of a few dozen supporters Damon.
What is this new reality you talk off. The only one I can see is that white WC have to share their free council accomodation with nonwhites. Haven’t been to Deptford market so I can’t comment on that. How has it changed? Darkies taken over have they? What happened to all of the customers of the original white people? They all evaporate into the air did they?
You talked about S’hall. Other than the EastEnd, I would say I haven’t seen another area accept new waves of immigrants so well, Somalians, Afghans, Sikhs, Poles, Albanians, Lithuanians etc. etc. All there. No NF equivalent present.
I don’t particularly agree with the hiring of family thing in Italy but then it could also be because certain clans will specialise in certain trades/skills, as the inherited trade concept is only now starting to diminish in Panjab. So families will specialise in farming and where you find one with experience in this field, you will find others. Who are known to each other and have probably worked together on a family farm. Makes sense no?
Well we don’t know exactly why Italians are doing this, I am just suggesting possible reasons. I don’t think this lends any credence to BNP notions at all. It could just be a skillset issue as mentioned above. Aren’t Italians more extended familylike than Brits anyway?
camilla,
Is this the sentence you are referring to?
Sunny was pointing out that wingnuts – or idiots if you prefer – are the ones that whip up the sort of fears that you have expressed on here this afternoon. He was saying that they use these words ‘dhimmification’ and ‘multiculturalism gone mad’, in order to get a reaction. In your case, they seem to have succeeded.
Just for info, Cauldron @ 8, also used the word dhimmis, in what I thought was quite a satirical way.
Sofia @ 40: LOL!
Dalbir,
What?
What the heck is the point of being young without a bit of excessive mischief?
You are old before your time, my friend.
“Sunny was pointing out that wingnuts – or idiots if you prefer – are the ones that whip up the sort of fears that you have expressed on here this afternoon. He was saying that they use these words ‘dhimmification’ and ‘multiculturalism gone mad’, in order to get a reaction. In your case, they seem to have succeeded.”
I understand that perfectly, thank you for your attention.
also I perfectly understand – as I have already said – that I would prefer to live in Italy, not in Britain.
“multiculturalism gone mad” – it is fair definition of modern UK.
are you non-muslim and you like it? ok, that is your right
I have been to your country recently (and ten years ago also) and I felt pity for UK, really
I don’t think that dhimmification is a hyperbole in the case of speaking about some European countries
#44
You misunderstood. I should have emphasised the word ‘excessive’. From my experiences of working in Panjabi, labour intensive environments is that the atmosphere, although graft centred, is generally jovial, close knit and dare I say it. Fun. Yes, it is a bit macho and “blokey” but this can actually help when lots of physical work needs doing. Having an “uncle ji” around helps with coordination, resolving conflicts, reducing skiving etc. He is often like a foreman/uncle ji.
Make sense?
Instead of just repeating what you probably read on right-wing websites/forums (your language and argumentative style is indicative of someone with view to spread, rather than an argument to discuss) why don’t you provide some examples that you have from your alleged trip to the UK? You fely pity? What about?
Share your experiences – don’t link to toilet-paper worthy newspapers like the Daily Mail – just your own real experiences as a ‘visitor’ to the UK.
Instead of just repeating what you probably read on right-wing websites/forums (your language and argumentative style is indicative of someone with view to spread, rather than an argument to discuss) why don’t you provide some examples that you have from your alleged trip to the UK? You fely pity? What about?
Share your experiences – don’t link to toilet-paper worthy newspapers like the Daily Mail – just your own real experiences as a ‘visitor’ to the UK.
EDIT: My previous (duplicate) comment got deleted! Maybe a repost.
camilla @ 45,
As a white atheist living in the UK, I’ll just repeat what I said earlier, I don’t feel oppressed by Muslims. What I do not like, on either side of the debate is cultural warriors.
Now hold on.Weren’t Northern League the ‘nice’ fascists with a mixed race mayor ?
The ones who wouldn’t join nasty BNP in the Euro parliament groupings as they regarded them as, well, nasty.
Aren’t they the ones.
Well, this isn’t much different from what happens in many Muslim-majority countries. Can anyone here serEgypt or Pakistan or turkey? The condistions endured by non-Muslim minorities in Muslim-majority countries are often horrible and brutal and violently discriminatory. I don’t see what Italy has to gain from importing people from a culture that has been hostile to Eruope right from the get-go.
For centuries Italy was subjected to attack after attack by both Muslim armies AND Muslim pirates. Those aggressions began in the 7th century and only stopped at the beginning of the 19th.
So how can you blame them for not being particularly thrilled by Muslim illegals flooding their country?
The Islamic world is dumping its excess populations in Europe because THEY have lost control of THEIR situation. Italy, and indeed all of Europe, owes the islamic world absolutely nothing. The inability on the part of Muslim immigrants ( settlers?) to integrate and their strident demands to subordinate secular practices to islamic diktats is the primary motivator for the rise of the Far Right. Attitudes are hardening as people become sick to the back teeth accommodating that which can never be accommdated in the first place.
Hantsboy: IMO they probably did not regard you guys as middle class enough. You seem to be on the “nice” wing of the BNP as opposed to some of the frothing-at-the-mouth visitors here.
Soso, how do you know this is an anti-Islam sentiment and not one directed towards all foreign looking immigrants, Muslim or not?
Soso
look at Ancient Rome’s long fight against Carthage which made Rome into a world class power.
Could it happen again I wonder ?
Has Italy’s moment arrived ?
Adnan
Griffin and Brons are pretty middle class by background.
It could be that BNP are actually more of a genuine grass roots movement which upsets a lot of middle class liberal types.
Don’t want oiks running things…
“Well, this isn’t much different from what happens in many Muslim-majority countries. Can anyone here serEgypt or Pakistan or turkey?”
Ah – the ‘two wrongs make a right’ approach to politics. The cure of so much conflict down the ages.
Soso- where do you draw the distinction between integration and assimilation?
Dalbir, I just wonder if you might not see that a council block like the ones you get in East London along Cable street (which might be mostly Bangladeshi origin people), might differ from a block where there was still a significant white cockney type population.
Should a transition from one to the other be seamless?
Cockney, Bangladeshi, African, South American, Polish?
You’re not meant to notice too much lack of things in common, and at least their kids at school don’t too much.
It seems that many anti-racists insist on this total colour blindness in this regard.
Paul Weller?
A bit like: ”David Bailey? Who’s he?”
But I wonder if it’s not of great interest to a Bangladeshi family with a newly arrived bride from the Sub-conitinent, as to who the new neighbours on the landing are.
Are they Bengali or Urdu speaking? Or Afro-Caribbean British or white local cockney types?
Does it really make no difference to people at a local level?
Sunny said that peasant farmers in Punjab couldn’t justly complain about incommers from other states coming and setting up alternative systems of employment and labour there. And I just thought this was asking too much of simple people.
It’s alright as a middle class university educated theory, but ordinary people have their small minded parochialisms that should be taken into consideration too.
Damon you make some interesting points there. You also highlighted another aspect of this debate in that the principle contestants (of all races, colours and religions) seem to be those who are fighting for free or near free council accomodation. Just how many people are we talking about I wonder? And should such people have such a sway on the politics effecting the rest of us?
It shocks me is that the rest of society are not shouting “bloody well pull your socks up!” to some of these people. Or at least finding some way to motivate them to avoid freeloading instincts. Give to the genuinely in need but be careful not to create dependency. I wonder how much of a factor this dependency plays in all this?
Dalbir @ 47,
You make good points and a lot of sense. I was just pulling your leg. Lets see how it works out shall we?
Italy like the rest of europe is seeing a rise in support for the far right. This is exacerbated further when you have economic meltdown, blaming the foreigner for all problems is what a lot of ignorant people do.