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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Thoughts on Birmingham brawl and fighting racism


    by Sunny on 12th August, 2009 at 5:57 PM    

    I’ve written an article for the Guardian website which went up this morning. An extract:

    But there are a few broader points to make, too. I’m not going to condemn the need for minorities to defend themselves in the streets or fight against fascists if necessary. Our forebears fought them off in Southall and it remains as important as ever to keep our streets free from constant far-right intimidation. If the police don’t do their job then people will step in to protect themselves.

    But that doesn’t mean extremist Muslims should be let off the hook. In 2004 the extremist group al-Muhajiroun, in all likelihood also behind the Luton anti-soldiers demonstration, had planned a rally in London where Hindus and Sikhs would be openly converted to Islam. They nearly caused a mini-riot then because Sikh gangs and BNP members had also planned to show up.

    So here are the choices: the group could be banned for activities on a par with the National Front (it keeps changing its name, the latest being Islam4UK). The police could also become more proactive against extremist groups, and stop local councils giving them any space. And lastly, Muslim groups themselves need to step up campaigning against these extremists or they will continue making life more difficult for them. More like this, basically.

    Britons also need to get re-acquainted with our tradition of free speech and expression, even if it involves people of different skin colour and religion saying outrageous things.

    But the real people to blame for these riots are the journalists willing to run inflammatory headlines – playing straight into the hands of extremists on both sides. Anjem Choudhary remains a constantly invited figure, even on the BBC, because he offers them entertainment.


                          Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Islamists, Race politics, Religion






    37 Comments below   |   Add your own

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs


    1. MaidMarian — on 12th August, 2009 at 6:07 PM  

      Well… At first blush I thought this was weak, but on second reading there is a point here.

      There certainly are real questions to be asked about the nature of the media in 2009. I am yet to meet anyone who thinks that a 24 hour rolling news cycle is, ‘a good thing.’ Still less that the obsession with identity issues is helpful.

      But Sunny, what you miss here is how one feeds the other. The demonstrations in Luton, the rallies in London etc, there is a real part of those that are played out for the media’s benefit. Using the media gives groups the coverage they need (the more strident, the more coverage), where journalists need these groups (again, the more strident, the more coverage generated).

      Groups and the media thus no longer view themselves as a part of civil society with a positive and, above all, integrationist message. They are there to assert exclusion and indulge in a ghastly exhibitionism.

      A few articles on here Sunny had sought to blame everyone and parts of this rather fall into the trap. But this link between the media and identity groups is generating shrill and it does no harm to say so.

    2. Sunny — on 12th August, 2009 at 6:27 PM  

      I like to throw out immediate reactions on PP before formulating something more rounded later… happens all the time!

    3. Praguetory — on 12th August, 2009 at 6:58 PM  

      I’m glad you’ve cut out your make-believe (sensationalised?) version of events from Saturday. Will you be publishing a retraction?

    4. Dalbir — on 12th August, 2009 at 7:10 PM  

      They nearly caused a mini-riot then because Sikh gangs and BNP members had also planned to show up.

      From what I recall Sunny, the majority of Sikh people there were everyday Joes. Not gang members. Some local Gurdwaras arranged for people to go (i.e. Goodmayes Singh Sabha). Two teenaged, aspiring amritdhari boys from up the street went. That was the type of people that turned up. I don’t think it is correct to characterise them as “Sikh gang members”.

    5. Shatterface — on 12th August, 2009 at 7:42 PM  

      Right now I’m picturing Lee Barnes being fucked by a vile maggot.

    6. Don — on 12th August, 2009 at 7:50 PM  

      hahahaha

    7. Don — on 12th August, 2009 at 7:58 PM  

      I know we aren’t supposed to respond, Sunny, but Bachelor Boy is just such an open goal.

    8. London Muslim — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:08 PM  

      Its interesting to note the silence and absence of condemnation from our keyboard warriors when Muslim mini cab drivers are murdered or Mosques firebombed however, a couple of fascists get beaten up (when they were looking for a rumble) and all hell breaks loose amongst white comrades.

      When are Fascists going to realise, as Sunny says you were knocked over 30 years ago in Southall so what chance do you think you’ve got now.

      Give it up - go join the army where you are legally allowed to kill Muslims although the way things are going in Afghanistan thanks to those Donkeys Blair & Brown you might not last long there also.

    9. Dawn Baker — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:18 PM  

      Socialism, uncontrolled immigration, the ridiculous human rights act and positive discrimination is what causes race riots.

      Socialism because it strives to kick down the white middle classes by punishing them with over taxation and also punishing overachieving. At the same time, it ignores the poor white indigenous whilst striving to spoon feed the new migrants. They’re queuing at Calais to be spoon fed!

      Human rights because it tends to protect those ethnic minorities from being targeted or identified in the media (or they get called racist). We all know that the human rights act has been abused to protect those who should be expelled from the UK.

      Uncontrolled immigration because everyone (white, asian and black) know that this is a reality.

      Positive discrimination. The most ridiculous of all. Employing someone for a job should be solely on skillset, experience and suitability for the job. How many different organisations are there for minorities? Yet, if one of us set up a white organisation, we would be kicked down just like the EDL have been.

      Socialism has caused this problem and it’s beginning to show it’s ugly side in the USA too now.

      If we stop making so much fuss about who belongs to which culture and who has more rights, we might just start to work things out on our own. It’s government intervention that messes everything up and this government is notorious for intervention.

    10. damon — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:32 PM  

      I’m in two minds about confronting the Casuasls United type people on the streets.
      If they can easily be put off staging their hateful protests, then I’d not be too worried about it.

      But if they were to be stronger than they are now (a disorganised rag-bag) then I’d be more cautious.

      Football hooligan types are not so easily put off by the first hints of opposition, as that’s what it’s all about for them on their awaydays across the country, travelling about with their hooligan mates.

      Many football grounds are in inner city neighbourhoods with large BME populations and the last thing you’d want to see is before and after match groups of the ”casuals” causing this kind of trouble around football grounds.

      Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Bradford, Milwwall, Leicester City, West Ham etc.

    11. London Muslim — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:37 PM  

      Yeh Socialism caused the race riots in the USA?

      How stupid of me and here am I thinking it was twats from the KKK who got off wearing white hoods.

      Must be all that Heroin I’m taking or am I supposed to be supplying it.

    12. Wanderinf Drunk — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:38 PM  

      Interesting article and a vast improvement on Saturday’s effort, but holy testicle matter what crazy carrots has Dawn (@11) been chomping on?

    13. 5cc — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:39 PM  

      Hey - do you think the person posting as Lee Barnes is actually an MI5 imposter here to make the BNP look like a bunch of thick, nasty oafs?

      Or is it the real Lee Barnes making the BNP look like a bunch of thick, nasty oafs?

      Must be the first one. This can’t be the best the beeners can do, surely.

    14. Don — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:42 PM  

      Dawn,

      Just out of interest, could you outline the existing positive discrimination laws currently on the books?

      …it tends to protect those ethnic minorities from being targeted or identified in the media …

      Targeted or identified or both? Do you see the difference?

    15. MaidMarian — on 12th August, 2009 at 8:44 PM  

      Dawn Baker (11) - ‘If we stop making so much fuss about who belongs to which culture and who has more rights, we might just start to work things out on our own.’

      Does it not strike you that yourself and Lee Barnes are the only writers on here fretting about these matters?

      That having been said, you talk about socialism in the US - your post is a parody, yes?

    16. 5cc — on 12th August, 2009 at 9:09 PM  

      That’s it! He’s got to be a secret service plant. There is abolutely no way a proper political party would have any member in any position of responsibility posting messages like 18 above.

      Oh wait - we’re talking about a BNP rather than a proper political party.

      Lee - or whatever your special secret agent number is. Keep it up. You’re doing an admirable job of making the BNP look even worse than normal people already think they are.

      And you can’t lose with the Barnbrook case either. You either keep him from the hearings and make him look like an idiot with a funny understanding of the meaning of the word ‘truth’ or let him go and remove all doubt. You can’t lose, dude.

    17. Dawn Baker — on 12th August, 2009 at 10:38 PM  

      I am merely trying to put across the average middle class white view, I would have thought you’d be glad of the input.

      I am not racist, infact some of my best mates are asian and they tend to agree with me.

      Socialism and THIS government in particular has done more harm to social integration by trying to enforce a set of rules or particular way of thinking.

      We are of the opinion that government intervention is doing more harm than good by constantly bringing to the fore our differences.

      All the Labour govt is doing is alienating people by enforcing a way of thinking or behaving.

      If we had been left to our own devices, then things would not have ended up so badly.

    18. MaidMarian — on 12th August, 2009 at 10:46 PM  

      Dawn Baker (25) - You regard New Labour as Socialist? This IS a wind-up isn’t it?

      ‘I am not racist, infact some of my best mates are asian and they tend to agree with me.’

      Christ - where am I 1977?

      Dawn my old china, you are not putting across anything. You are mouthing platitudes that could have been on the letters page of any political publication since time immemorial. At best, you are getting it off your chest.

      Bully for you. But please don’t pass yourself off as the sole articulation of, ‘the average middle class white view.’ Lines like that simple reinforce the latent feeling that your comments are in fact parodies.

    19. Sunny — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:03 PM  

      I’m glad you’ve cut out your make-believe (sensationalised?) version of events from Saturday. Will you be publishing a retraction?

      What should I be retracting exactly?

    20. Adnan — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:14 PM  

      Sunny,

      regarding the Al-Muj shitheads you write: “… had planned a rally in London where Hindus and Sikhs would be openly converted to Islam.”, but the Guardian article does not say that. Is there another reference ? This kind of thing about conversion of Hindus and Sikhs (women) does come up a lot in complaints by Hindu and Sikh community groups here. So are you saying that there is more than a grain of truth there ?

    21. Sunny — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:14 PM  

      I have to keep asking not to respond to Barnes - he’s a well known BNP activist and racist, and is banned from here.

    22. Sunny — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:17 PM  

      This kind of thing about conversion of Hindus and Sikhs (women) does come up a lot in complaints by Hindu and Sikh community groups here. So are you saying that there is more than a grain of truth there ?

      Yup, there was lots of material about it on other websites I can’t find now. I believe it was also on the al-Muj website at the time. But as I couldn’t find it I had to reference the Guardian article.

    23. Adnan — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:19 PM  

      There were murmurings about injured soldiers being insulted in civilian hospitals. The Tories, and some military top brass raised it and that led to encouragement of military personnel to wear their uniforms when off duty.

      I think that the Luton disgusted a lot of people and gave the green light to the EDL etc (regardless of whether or not they had been organising prior to that though).

    24. qidniz — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:35 PM  

      I’m glad you’ve cut out your make-believe (sensationalised?) version of events from Saturday. Will you be publishing a retraction?

      Of course not. Besides the well-known leftist allergy to facts, there is also the pressing business of covering up, or at least deflecting attention from, the terribly inconvenient fact that the real culprits were denizens of the Left. So the spin doctors are out in force. (Note, for example, how the incident is being billed as a “brawl”: beating up bystanders is not a brawl, but who is paying attention?)

    25. Sunny — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:41 PM  

      ahh yeah, one angry idiot writes a letter to the press. Must be true!!!!!!!!! It’s a vast left-wing conspiracy!

    26. 5cc — on 12th August, 2009 at 11:55 PM  

      @21 - Sorry Sunny, my bad. It’s fun to bait clueless trolls, but hadn’t seen the warning before.

    27. dave bones — on 13th August, 2009 at 2:17 AM  

      the group could be banned for activities on a par with the National Front

      The National front are banned from what activities Sunny? They still march in Bermondsey every year I think.

    28. Sunny — on 13th August, 2009 at 2:41 AM  

      I meant that their activities (baiting people, supremacism) are on par with the national front - not that they’re banned. Bad turn of phrase I think.

    29. Ismaeel — on 13th August, 2009 at 8:27 AM  

      Though I have no time for Anjem Choudhury and his cohorts, I’m not entirely clear how having a rally where people openly embrace Islam from other faith groups is comparable to a facist rally.

    30. Brum Lad — on 13th August, 2009 at 8:43 AM  

      “some of my best mates are Asian and they agree with me”

      Do they know you’re a fucking BNP cheerleader?

    31. JuliaM — on 13th August, 2009 at 8:59 AM  

      Sunny can crow here, but a quick trip to the CiF page to see how many people are in agreement with him (or have recommended his attempts to spin his way out of the trouble he’s gotten himself in) should give a more rounded picture.

      Oh, wait. It’s ‘all a lot of Daily Mail readers’ criticising you, isn’t it? Yeah, sure…

    32. Golam Murtaza — on 13th August, 2009 at 9:38 AM  

      Dawn Baker: “I am not racist, infact some of my best mates are asian and they tend to agree with me.”

      Yeah, pull the other one.

    33. Shatterface — on 13th August, 2009 at 1:12 PM  

      ‘Though I have no time for Anjem Choudhury and his cohorts, I’m not entirely clear how having a rally where people openly embrace Islam from other faith groups is comparable to a facist rally.’

      Just curious as to how many people of one faith have seen a rally by another and thought ‘Hey, I want to convert!’

      And who wants converts so easily converted anyway?

    34. Sunny — on 13th August, 2009 at 3:18 PM  

      but a quick trip to the CiF page to see how many people are in agreement with him (or have recommended his attempts to spin his way out of the trouble he’s gotten himself in) should give a more rounded picture.

      But that’s mostly just you JuliaM. And frankly I don’t really care for what you say.

    35. Arshad — on 13th August, 2009 at 3:32 PM  

      Shatterface
      “Just curious as to how many people of one faith have seen a rally by another and thought ‘Hey, I want to convert!’

      And who wants converts so easily converted anyway”

      Its usually people who have been considering it for a while and they use that “occasion” to formally convert

    36. Sofia — on 13th August, 2009 at 3:45 PM  

      Dawn @ 9…there is no such legal term as ‘positive discrimination’ get your facts right

    37. douglas clark — on 14th August, 2009 at 2:26 AM  

      Shatterface @ 33,

      I remember my parents going to a Billy Graham rally and when he said the magic words:

      “Which sinners amongst you, now want to embrace Christ?”

      (I paraphrase, but that was the gist of it), lots of zombies got off their seats and walked to the front.

      It is a hucksterish proposition that all religions are alive to. Madness of crowds or summat…



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