That’s the counsel of despair, man. Not impossible surely, but not overnight. Without the fear and insecurity, would these issues even arise? Would the grandstanding smoothies have a constituency? Would the spittle-flecked ranters? This shit is a symptom more than a disease.

It’s a tough one. It’s a long-term job and you do what you can. But if you accept,as a general principle, that you will not allow someone else’s religious convictions dictate by force and threat what you may or may not see,hear or say, then you have to make a stand. I believe you should do it without taking the piss, but without pretending a modicum of respect for that which you do not respect.

But you recognise that only some of those who disagree you are actually twats. And keep a close eye one some who are on your side.

Still, I’d love to see pictures of the demo. What would it be? The Magnificent Seven or The Dirty Dozen?

(Actually, get Col. Mustapha to show up, and I’m there).

Sid,

Learn to read, please! I didn’t suggest that you suggested that the reason I allegedly (again, methinks you’re playing the victim here) single you out for mroe bilious bits was because you and Hussain are co-religionists. You have gone ahead and concocted that in your addled brain. I think Jay and I have more of history than you. But you seem to want to mark yourself out as someone worthy of special attention.

And your last statement is the biggest cop out – pretty much sums up some of the bravado on this thread. Hell yes, we’re mad. Hell yes, we’ll support a protest in spirit. Hell yes, we’ll even sign a petition. But come time to action and men turn to mice.

To think that anyone is going to believe that comments like mine, which clearly defend Hussain’s right to his exhibition and which clearly state that Asia House should have pulled the police on these people, have scared you from participating in an actual protest is laughable indeed. You’re just a coward, because if you participate in any sort of protest against this, you’ll have set an example and you then won’t be able to cop out taqiyah-like next time Sunny organizes a protest against some even more scary Muslim cretins. You can then be consistent in your cowardice. Bravo! Nice try, but not Harry Houdini enough.

With Asia House, if they don’t release a statement they are damned as wicked and nefarious innuendo spreading conspirators, if they do release a statement they are accused of being confrontational. People who hate them will hate them and blame them.

I wasn’t going to suggest that the reason you seem to single me out for the more bilious bits of your fury was because I and MF Husain are co-religionists. Since you have gone ahead and made that point all by yourself.

But you do illustrate quite graphically the bitterness that this demonstration is going to provoke from Hindus. I will support Sunny and Co in spirit but will sit this one for the very reasons that you have inadvertently demonstrated for us.

*beats hasty retreat*

xyz, you’re not spelling anything out for me like a revelation. I’ve been saying that for the last two days. Keep up.

By the way, what are the vagaries and innuendoes that Asia House, like a nefarious and wicked double standard applying evil mastermind, are engaging in?

It is very simple. As a result of vandalism and threats of vandalism the exhibition has closed down. What else do you want them to do or say? It’s all a big conspiracy against you xyz!

Don’t flatter yourself. It was all I could do to stomach the visuals of you and the others entertaining yourselves for the benefit of a Hussain masterpiece. That comment was directed at Jay, not you. Have no fear, the thought of you nude and standing in front of a mirror has never entered my head nor shall it ever.

“I’m very touchy-feely.”

Good for you. No need to share that with me though. Save that for your
sex partner, be it animal, vegetable or mineral.:)

As for the rest, I too feel your discomfort at your own inability to grasp your own double standards and that of Hussain. I know the reference to the predeliction for animal sex in the Islamic world hits too close to home and upsets you. I mean poor Kismet had to go running to an Islamic fundamentalist website for his quotations. Luckily for you, your co-religionists’ threats of beheading everyone at the drop of a hat pretty much puts a lid on any Islamic religious art of that nature and so you very rarely have to feel the need to expose the true you behind all your taqiyah.

As for subtleties, first try grasping the subtleties of Indian art before making statements not based on fact. If you appreciated subtleties, you would be able to read my posts and distinguish between my defence of freedom of expression and my opinions on Hussain, his hypocrisy, your hypocrisy, his lack of imagination, your lack of imagination, Indian art etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I don’t know what xyz’a animus is towards me since others here have levelled some more personally flagrant offensives. What gives xyz? Is there some baggage you’re towing? hmmm? Christian missionaries and Muslims still getting your hoary old goat xyz? hmmm?

Don’t feel for a moment that I don’t feel your discomfort in having to feel the need to identify with the the Hindu art-intolerant losers, but you don’t have to feel obliged to simply because you share their traditions. I’m very touchy-feely.

But there is a more subtle point xyz hasn’t grasped and that is these cretins have more in common with literalists and reductionists that we see tend to take over the mouthpiece of all religions and hold the rest of their co-religionists.

Arif and Jai have made some superb points and they remain the best entries in this debate for the respect that is due by artists in a liberal democracy that does allow full F of E.

So what if you offend them and open a rift? Aren’t you all saying that there already is a rift between and within communities and that the liberal side needs to be more vocal and as visible as the conservative side? Saying we need to protest and starting threads on PP and then saying it’s almost impossible to do achieves nothing. Be like Hussain, exercise your right to offend those who offend you by violating the freedoms you cherish.

Conspiracy? No, but stating their case via innuendo and vagaries and very few facts. Yes. Sorry, doesn’t make it appealing to get more coverage. You yourself complained that if Muslims had done it, it would be all over the news now. So you would think you would want them to do as much to publicize this outrage as much as possible. Easy for some to question and make speculations as to why they just can’t produce the damaged painting or at the very least, make an official statement. Yes. Inept. Comes across that way.

And I hope that you will be the first to sign up for a protest outside the Asia House in support of Hussain. I would love to see you in the papers, on the steps of Asia House and holding a placard saying a lot of what you’ve said here. Seriously, I’m not joking or making fun. I just think that signing and passing around a petition as a protest against this vandalism is pointless and achieves nothing. If you want more publicity for this type of behavior, the only meaningful protest is to put your money where your mouth is and be as visible and risible as the people against whom you are protesting and who are attacking the freedoms you hold so dear. Again, I really am not joking.

Don, I think it’s almost impossible to do this. That is what makes it so messy. That is why it opens up massive rifts within communities.

Starting a riot would be good too as I realy wanna see that ubercute police officer in nomex gear

*swoons off topic*

That’s exactly how the Behzti affair played itself out.

But how do you reason with someone who feels under attack and reassure them that you’re not being patronising when the next thing they say is ‘Stand with us against this then’? If you understand where we’re coming from, why do you not joing us in protest? Or are you an Uncle Tom?

It’s almost impossible to make the argument why offensive, craven, second rate art shouldnt be censored without it sounding condescending to somebody to some degree.

That may fuel their alienation even further, but what are you going to do? Agree that censorship is alright?

When the religiose bully boys throw their weight around and make demands the instinctive response from most secularists, liberals and ‘progressives’ – myself included – is ‘Up yours, pal.’ But, as Arif pointed out, the reason these characters have a platform at all is because there are those who feel threatened and insecure, isolated and powerless, and it is an easy gig to stand up and say, ‘They are pissing on your values, I will defend you’. So they find an exhibition, or a cartoon or a stamp and wave it like a blood-stained shirt. You can have contempt for these demagogues, but if that contempt spills over onto the ordinary Joe, that’s ugly.

They manipulate fear and confusion, turning it into resentment and hate; they use the violence this engenders as a bargaining chip, without letting it touch their smooth selves.

I suppose, by definition, almost everyone who posts here is articulate, educated, urbane and cosmopolitan. That’s not stroking, that’s how it is. But there are many others, less sophisticated and adjusted to twenty-first century values, who reasonably fear that a perceived or manufactured attack on their belief system is a precursor to an actual attack on themselves. Slick dismissiveness by a self-confident elite does not reassure.

Isn’t the point of Sunny’s original post how to tackle those who exploit these fears and insecurities to attack freedom of speech, without dismissing the fearful and insecure? Few of whom would have been offended by or even aware of this moderately louche exhibition if it had not been for career-building ego-trippers inventing a row.

I just don’t buy it. The Birmingham Rep was similarly caught in the headlights and shocked by the events of 2 years ago. Reading conspiracy into their ’silence’ is idle speculation.

They have some pretty sophisticated people on their international advisory board. People who are used to dealing with the press all the time. I see Lord Desai on TV all the time being interviewed. Why not use him as the spokesperson at a press conference to announce the destruction? By now you think they could have come up with an official statement at least?

I don’t buy the argument that they are at a loss as to what to do now. They are not some rinky-dink hole-in-the-wall operation. They really haven’t made their case well or it would be in the British press by now. What’s the big deal with issuing a statement, after all there are people who probably wanted to go to the exhibition? What’s the big deal with producing the damaged painting? Right now it’s just an allegation. Show it and explain to the media who did it and how it happened.

After all, an image like that in the press is worth a thousand complaints on PP and silent seething about “threats.” You will really get people’s attention and make them care more about the issue. You might also discourage more people who have ideas of vandalizing art in the future. If they truly are an art institution that wants to stand up for the freedom of expression of the artists they feature, then they really need to be more upfront about the whole thing and take a stronger stand about it.

I’m not sure why they just didn’t call in the police (maybe they did), post extra security everywhere and refuse to be intimidated by people. The more public they make it, the less brave the protesters would be about actually damaging anything.

Right now it looks like they are either making allegations but don’t want to back them up or trying to protect and mollycoddle the person or minority group responsible for this (in this case Hindu). It’s as frustrating as in India (and yes I’m going to compare) when they refer to any infraction by Christians or Muslims as “a minority group did this or that” without naming them. It’s silly. If an irate Hindu destroyed the painting, come out and name and shame them and show the damage.