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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Ayaan Hirsi’s lies come to an end


    by Al-Hack on 17th May, 2006 at 9:26 AM    

    Poster girl for the ‘clash of civilisations’ comes crashing down to earth because of her lies.

    Holland’s most strident critic of Islam, the Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is today expected to announce she is quitting politics and moving to America, amid allegations that she lied to gain asylum.

    Miss Hirsi Ali faces penalties up to and including the potential loss of her Dutch citizenship, after a leading member of her own political party, the VVD, pledged a formal investigation of her actions.

    What most news reports don’t mention is that she lied about being beaten, lied about the female genital mutilation and pretty much everything else. In fact she created the whole facade so she could take advantage of the anti-Muslim climate. How sad. Now she makes it doubly hard for any women who may have suffered abuse to come out. Her full statement in English.
    [hat tip raz, Peter and al]



    Filed in: Current affairs




    • Geezer
      I tell you what's worse is this silly bitch took the place of people who had a genuine right to seek refuge.

      I hear she is heading to the US a place where illegal immigration has become the most talked about issue lol.
    • justforfun
      Common on then - don't leave us in suspense - which news reports do mention that ....she lied about being beaten, lied about the female genital mutilation and pretty much everything else

      It would be useful to know don't you think?

      No offense but I would like to read them for myself - Links will be fine :-)

      Justforfun
    • justforfun
      Sorry - Ihit the submit button before saying I agree it is sad that this will now make it so much harder for those who have suffered these sorts of attack.

      Justforfun
    • georges
      Yeah, go on, give us the links. The fact she lied on her asylum application doesn't prove she lied about the other stuff. So presumably there's more information...

      BTW what do you think about her neighbours wanting rid of her because people were trying to kill her? It felt a bit like "Dear Gestapo, Anne Frank & her family are hiding in a secret room behind the wardrobe - now please leave us alone".
    • Chris
      "What most news reports don’t mention is that she lied about being beaten, lied about the female genital mutilation and pretty much everything else."

      That is a serious charge. Where is your evidence?
    • j0nz
      “What most news reports don’t mention is that she lied about being beaten, lied about the female genital mutilation and pretty much everything else.”

      Excuse me Al-hack, but how the f*** do you know that? Your attack on this woman is despicable. She spent her childhood in Somalia. What about you Al-Hack?

      Typical reactionary Muslim response here. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised. Defend Islam at costs brother! This bitch had it coming! Etc

      She is courageous, she speaks out when Islamofacists want her dead. You will find a similar response on many Islamic forums. Many less 'polite' than Al-Hack here. I will try and find some links later on. She's an apostate right? Well we all know the "proper" consequence of that...
    • raz
      It's great to see this liar exposed as the fraud she is.
    • Cixous
      The author of the article suggests that Ayaan Hirsi Ali's 'lies' have come to an end. But these facts about her asylum application have been known for at least 4 years, when she admitted that she told pork pies on her application. The witch hunt against her now has more to do with spinelessness and fear. The killers of Theo Van Gogh and their tacit supporters amongst Muslims in Holland and the idiot left want to get rid of her because she is more trouble than she is worth. Because if Muslims jump up and down and scream, and threaten to slit throats, and kill people over cartoons, they ultimately get what they want, just like a psychopathic screaming and whining baby with a razor blade.
    • erm!! i don't see how you or i can be judge of why she lied..it's not exactly easy is it? "taking advantage of the whole anti-islamic climate" - she may well have done for her own benefit - but its silly to think that she didn't have any issues - i mean as j0nz points out - you didn't grow up in somalia did you? its not as if she's had an easy life - how can we sit in judgement on her? that's just as disgusting as the things you say she's done. i really think its far too facile for the rest of us to point fingers and say ooh.. especially when its easy enough for people who a) have a secure nation state and don't have to worry about being a refugee.
    • Cixous
      Ayaan Hirsi Ali is not a liar. She tells the truth about Islam and the way Islam treats women. For that reason, millions of Muslims want to have her decapitated for being an apostate, and even the 'polite' and 'moderate' Muslims amongst us (moderate in this context meaning 'don't say you want her dead in public') wouldnt weep if she was slaughtered.

      Far from telling lies, Ayaan Hirsi Ali TELLS THE TRUTH.

      That is why the cartoon bed-wetters want her dead.

      Theo Van Gogh's death proves that.
    • Chris
      Could those calling her a "liar" on issues other than the asylum claim please offer the evidence??

      Oh, and was she "lying" about the death threats too?
    • raz
      It's hilarious to see how the right wing bigots on the blogosphere are up in arms about this whole business.

      BTW, I think Al-Hack made a mistake in his article. It hasn't been mentioned whether Hirsi was subject to FGM or not, only that her 'forced marriage' was a lie and that she didn't flee a warzone is Somalia, she actually lived a comfortable, middle class life in Kenya for 10 years. Given her track record of lying, it would not suprise anyone if the FGM business turned out to be a lie as well. Boy who cried wolf, and everything.
    • this whole 'debate' about asylum seekers and 'who has the right' - yeah - exactly : who decides 'who' has the right? which individual has 'more' right than the other and who sits in judgement?

      we may decide we don't like what one person 'represents' - but let's not start imagining we have any right to imagine what its like being in her shoes - or making a decision re: her 'access' or uptake of universal human rights - to safety and security etc. And besides - if the 'anti-islamic' agenda fed off her - well whose fault is that? If there weren't so many dodgy Mullah types floating around the 'west' wouldn't find it half as easy to say the things that are said. Yes people take advantage of a human story - both ways - in support - and the kind of criticism im seeing here. but this kind of personal 'attack' is not constructive - end of story.
    • Cixous
      Maybe she is hated so much, and so many men want to decapitate her, because she exposes some falsehoods and lies about Islam.

      One of these half-truths is that Islam is a religion that inherently respects women, another falsehood is that Islam is a religion that is tolerant of dissent and tolerant of other religions and ways of life.

      The reaction to her, and the ritual slaughter of Theo Van Gogh, and the orgy of stupidity over the cartoons, proves that she tells the truth about this, and that it is other people who tell LIES and that is why they hate her and want her dead.
    • raz
      sonia, this woman lied in order to claim asylum, and then tried to stop others from coming to the Netherlands. That is disgusting.
    • Chris
      Well, raz and others, your case would be somewhat better supported if she hadn't been subject to the death threats.
      Or does the religion of peace consider those a justifiable response to her "lies"?
      And could we have the evidence for the lies, please??
      Of course we know there's no domestic abuse amongst the middle classes, do't we?
    • Cixous
      raz it is not the 'right wing blogosphere' who are up in arms about this about whom you should be amused.

      The right wing blogosphere of concern in this matter are the extreme right wing Muslims who support her persecution, want her dead, sneer at Theo Van Gogh. That is the right wing who are up in arms. They find significant support amongst so called moderate Muslims. They are the true right wingers, who hate women who dissent from Islam, and support bed wetting violence as their contribution to 'multicultural' life.
    • j0nz
      Raz

      Shut the f*** up. You sound worse than Nick Griffin. You class A hypocrite.
    • Cixous
      raz, do you find it disgusting that millions of Muslim men want to slit her throat?
    • Chris
      From Sunny's 'manifesto' of May 11:
      "But there are ‘issues’ that we have to take ownership of within the Asian community. And only we can take ownership of them because it is not for the government to do it. By that I mean educational under-achievement, forced marriages, sexual abuse etc - the list is long."

      Forced marriages? Sexual abuse? Lies, all lies.
    • raz
      Some interesting points from Muslim womens rights workers about Hirsi:

      http://www.thenation.com/docprem.mhtml?i=200506...

      “Karima Belhaj is the director of the largest women’s shelter in Amsterdam. She’s also one of the organizers of the “Stop the Witchhunt!” campaign against what she sees as anti-Muslim hysteria. On the day we talked, she was despondent. Arsonists had set fire for the second time to an Islamic school in the town of Uden. A few days later a regional police unit warned that the rise of right-wing Dutch youth gangs potentially presents a more dangerous threat to the country than Islamist terrorism. “The rise of Islamism is not the problem,” Belhaj said. “The problem is that hatred against Arabs and Muslims is shown in this country without any shame.” With her message that Muslim women must give up their faith and their families if they want to be liberated, Hirsi Ali is actually driving women into the arms of the fundamentalists, said Belhaj: “She attacks their values, so they are wearing more and more veils. It frightens me. I’m losing my country. I’m losing my people.”

      “If Belhaj was sad, another “Stop the Witchhunt!” organizer was angry. Like Belhaj, Miriyam Aouragh is a second-generation immigrant of Moroccan background. A self-described peace and women’s activist, Aouragh was the first in her family to attend university. She’s now studying for a PhD in anthropology. She scoffs at the idea that Hirsi Ali is a champion of oppressed Muslim women. “She’s nothing but an Uncle Tom,” Aouragh said. “She has never fought for the oppressed. In fact, she’s done the opposite. She uses these problems as a cover to attack Islam. She insults me and she makes my life as a feminist ten times harder because she forces me to be associated with anti-Muslim attacks.”

      It's worth noting that women like Karima Belhaj are actually doing something concrete to help women escape from domestic violence by running shelters. Meanwhile the likes of Hirsi sit up in the ivory towers spouting vitriol and basking in glory. It's a sad indictment of the sexism and mysogincy of these right wing fanatics that women like Karima Belhaj are ignored while the likes of Hirisi are championed.
    • Tilling
      Dear Islamist nutjobs

      Sorry - representatives of the religion of peace.

      Please note that Miss Hirsi Ali will soon be leaving the Netherlands. We hope that therefore you could see your way clear to stopping killing film directors and wailing and leaping about, threatening death to those who had the temerity to publish some cartoons. Only if that isn't oppressive and Islamophobic, you understand. If not, I can be found at the address below. Please come and either blow me up or decapitate me at your earliest convenience.

      Thank you
    • AND i will stick my neck out and say this - any moral judgements based on 'ooh she lied' - puhleese - politicians are always lying. nation-states are built on myths and often out and out lies. So what's a girl to do?! If she has no-one looking out for her and hasn't got a nice nation-state to look out for her, being a 'goody goody girl and staying quiet' wouldn't have helped her any. I for one am not gong to pretend i might not do much the same sort of thing myself if i were in the same situation.

      sorry if this offends anyone's moral compass and righteous indignation re: protecting their 'boundaries' but that's the reality. And since most of us don't share that reality i can't really see where all this fuss is coming from. It stinks far too much of the 'ooh you've been a traitor to your people/religion/side by letting the 'other' take advantage', without seeking to see how an individual can end up in such a situation and need to protect herself one way or the other. Don't we always hear of how ooh things stay in a rut because these asian/muslim women can't or change or stand up for themselves. if they're not getting much
      (or any) support who's going to blame them if they 'go over to the other side' so to speak.
    • Cixous
      No doubt raz along with others would rejoice at Ayaan Hirsi Ali meeting the same fate as Theo Van Gogh - she is after all an apostate, an 'Uncel Tom' and we all know what Islam likes to do with 'Uncle Toms' especially female ones.

      We know who the real right wing bigots are, we also know who the real liars and bigots and cut throats are. It is the big elephant standing in the room.

      Apostate Uncle Tom she must have her throat cut and be killed. Just like Theo Van Gogh.

      The biggest liars are the right wing bigots who claim that Islam is not an oppressive, violent and intolerant system of thought. They are the liars.
    • Katy Newton
      It isn't clear to me how much she has or hasn't lied about, but the fact that she seems to have rolled over, resigned and left the Netherlands speaks volumes. I'm inclined to think she knows her account wouldn't stand up to sustained investigation or she'd be putting up more of a fight. It's not as if she lacks for supporters, as this thread shows.

      It's a bit of a storm in a teacup, I think. The main thing to remember is that the things she drew attention to (forced marriages etc) are valid concerns whether she herself was telling the truth or not.
    • I would be interested in hearing from anyone who might suggest why those who goad Muslims get all the publicity, and not those working at grassroots level to help oppressed Muslim women in shelters etc, but who don't diss Islam wholesale, as written about in the links raz provided.

      Why are they not promoted by the media?
    • Jackie Brown
      I don't doubt that Ms. Ali has brought to light some bad practices that happen within the Muslim community. However some of this is cultural. When I lived in the Midwest (US) - I had a close friend- a CHRISTIAN woman from Eritrea, who was receiving grief from some members of her expat community for not having her daughters circumcised. She had the freedom to say no, using the argument that if this was discover by anyone at the child’s school, she and her husband could loose custody because of child abuse.

      The bigger issue I have is the passport, and new Job Ms. Ali has found w/ the American Enterprise Institute- very conservative think tank that advises the president on foreign policy , immigration etc. Her entire rise to fame was based on a lie- that doesn’t necessarily change the validity of what she is saying now – e.g. call for Islam to examine itself. But does the end justify the means? Why is this blatant opportunism on her part overcome the niceties of truth and not using ‘victimhood,’ to take personal responsibly and all the other seeming right sounding garbage that the Enterprise Institute spouts-- -garbage if it only applies when it fits w/ your program.
      She will fit right in w/ other immigrants in the group who have spouted nonsense against the “right” victims [Dinesh DeSouza and African Americans] and used that to further their careers.
    • "Because if Muslims jump up and down and scream, and threaten to slit throats, and kill people over cartoons, they ultimately get what they want, just like a psychopathic screaming and whining baby with a razor blade."

      ha- actually its all this screaming and looking like a bunch of upset reactionaries that is fuelling the ridicule, so i can't see how 'they' are getting what they want - unless 'they' want to be ridiculed.

      seems to me all these bl**dy humans are the same - they want power, they want geopolitical dominance, can't handle feeling like they're one species, oh no must needs divide into camps then spend all of history slagging of the other side and murdering and writing nasty stories. word on the street seems to be if you can't beat 'em - join 'em. that's right - join 'em in seeking supremacy over the 'other'. what do islamists have most in common with - that's right - the neocons. i say they ought to take their so-called self-fulfilling prophecy 'clash of civilizations' to mars or sth.

      god, where does one go
    • jay singh, that's cos the media isn't interested in real life or middle of the ground stories. the media wants spectacle, human drama, gossip and extreme stories. stuff that sells and appeals to the gossipy bitches in us all. that's why its so important what Sunny pointed out in the 'mission' thingy - the need for media spaces that talk about stuff that won't 'sell' and interest the big media institutions.
    • raz you don't sound too different from a "right wing bigot" when you made your statement up above which signally lacked any feeling or appreciation for this woman as an individual human being.

      can we please not have everything turn into left vs. right - or muslims vs. the 'apostates'?

      jesus.
    • raz
      Hilarious how the 'Islamist' slander is now being thrown around, despite the facts that:

      1. Pickled Politics has been at the forefront of condemning Islamic extremism - just read the posts of Sunny, Rohin, Jay Singh, myself and others. And as far as womens rights, everything has been covered here - forced marriages, honour killings, dowry murders, female foeticide. Even a cursory glance at the archives would show this. And yet suddenly accusations of Islamism are being thrown. Another striking example of the bigotry of the right wing fanatics that have infested this thread.

      2. There are actually very few Muslims posting on Pickled Politics. Most are either Hindu/Sikh. Again, some bigoted people can't even distinguish between Asian and Muslim. Hilarious!

      Hirsi is not condemned for speaking out against barbaric practices amongst immigrant communities - hell, even Nick Griffin can do that. She is condemned for being a liar, a fraud, a publicity seeker, someone who panders to the very worst anti-Muslim prejudices in Western societies, and worst of all someone who, despite all her rhetoric, has actually done little to help women on the ground, in fact she has made things more difficult for womens rights activists in Muslim communities. I'll take one Karima Belhaj over a thousand Ayan Ali Hirsis.
    • Sid
      Of all those Hirsi-Ali supporters here, can anyone say what she has actually done in pragmatic terms for Muslim women in general and Somalian women in particular?

      And since all of you (J0nz, Cixous) who are so "outraged" about the rights of women, have anyone of you ever heard of Salma Sobhan or Sara Hossain of Bangladesh, or Dr Zeinab Ranjbar of Iran to name just a couple of thousands of women who are working in the Muslim world, at grassroots level and on the streets, in the villages, in the brothels, the factories etc?

      No? I didn't think so. But I'm sure C. Hitchins can tell us.

      Hirsi-Ali's career of self-publicist Islam-basher is still on the up and is bound to continue illustriously in her new role in Cheney's PNAC think tank.

      How exactly will that benefit the real-life human-rights issues faced by millions of Muslim women?
    • Tilling
      Er - who was calling PP "Islamist"??
    • raz
      Sonia, I don't know how long you've been on this site, but I've been one of the fiercest critics of Muslim extremism and oppression of women. Anyone can back me up on this. I don't believe Hirsi is at all sincere in her motives, and she deserves to be called out on her bullshit. I support genuine womens rights activists, and not self-serving hypocrites like Hirsi.
    • Nobody seriously doubts there are issues out there that need addressing and that the hatred and death threats pointed to Ayaan Hirsi Ali are depressing.

      But if it is all about liberating Muslim women I reckon it is better not to defecate on Muslims as a whole. You can catch people in a pincer movement and say that it means you are against enlightenment values and all that, and it is disgraceful how Muslim apostates are treated and I'm inclined to agree with you.

      But my point is this - on a practical level, if you really want to help oppressed Muslim women in Holland, it would be better to promote the voice of grassroots activists than grandstanding politicians. By all means deal with immigration and the backwardness of mullahs. But on a practical level, do you really believe that Muslim women are helped when they are told they have to choose between their primitive religion and their freedom?

      I would actually go so far as to suggest that it might actually make things worse for them in some ways.
    • raz - ive had it with people hiding behind the nation-state 'veil' - nation-states are artifical constructs that benefit some people and not others so that's no excuse for lack of humane empathy.

      if you have a british passport - are you willing to give it up and find out what its actually like minus the advantages of a 'great nation-state'???? are you??? then maybe you can talk.
    • obviously not Jay Singh - that's not particularly constructive, and you have some very good points - - but people can say that instead of attacking her wholesale.
    • i wouldn't say i'm a 'supporter' of this woman in particular. she could be anyone. i support anyone's right to stand up for themselves in the best way to know how without judging them harshly if they make mistakes.
    • raz
      "f you have a british passport - are you willing to give it up and find out what its actually like minus the advantages of a ‘great nation-state’???? are you??? then maybe you can talk"

      I've lived as a citizen of both a poor Asian country and a rich European one and seen the light and day difference in quailty of life. I've travelled on both a Western and a non-Western passport and seen how differenly one can be treated. Have you?
    • what's annoyed me and spurring on these spate of comments is people judging other people when they have really no clue of the personal reality of someone else's life - compared to the advantages they have/.

      and the nation-state issue and asylum is a big thing indeed - f**k this business of religion.its a nice little smokescreen.

      nation-states are the major stumbling block to achieving global equality and universal human rights.

      they're cliques of the worst kind and 'globalization' today means the global acceptance of nation-states as theunit of social organization.

      as we don't physically have much choice, we have to accept it ( unless someone bends the rules!) i've lived my life moving about, am probably still going to move about - i have to obey the rules and since ive been lucky enough that to have been well enough off and educated so most countries don't actually mind giving me a visa - so im one of the lucky 'transnationals'. are others as lucky? NO! and you know what? people who live in the country they're born in, - when that country is one of the 'powerful' ones - clearly don't seem to have a clue. well most of them anyway. and yes, look the other way, if you want, because you can.
    • Sid
      As she rides off in the sunset on the Hirsi-Highway, I wish Ayaan the best of luck.

      As for real women's rights activists in the Muslim World, we have your work cut out for us.
    • ooh raz - i still live as a citizen of a third world country. and i wasn't not talking about 'travelling' on a non-western passport - i was talking about existing without the sanction and protection that you receive as a citizen of the western country.

      anyway i'm a muslim woman and i can totally see where this woman is coming from. i don't choose to try the same kind of tactics but i don't see what a bunch of stupid men think they're doing coming along and implying she had it easy. what do they know??? try being a woman and see! ( ha you might not find that one as easy as giving up le passport)
    • oh come on Sid - the main reason things change so slowly is because if anyone tries anything everyone else jumps down their throat. 'Ooh you're not religious, or ooh you're a 'lax' woman - you sleep around - ooh you don't respect your culture. "kharap meye" - is the one line that's kept it all going.
      other women usually join in this kind of tirade and the only people who end up having the guts to 'change' have to deal with the reality of social ostracization. the kind of ostracization that is fed by the kind of comments i see in this thread. its not for no good reason im spending my time writing these comments...we're all like..but we don't really understand the social dynamics of why there's such little change or why its so difficult.

      scroll up and there's plenty of empirical evidence. if we want to actually talk about being 'progressive' ha - then yeah let's think about it a tad more carefully.
    • raz
      Sonia, I've lived as a citizen of a third world country as well. I have first hand experience of Islamic extremism which would make some of the idiots on this thread run a mile. A Member of my own family was even been shot and left for dead by these brainwashed fanatics. So, believe me, I'm no apologist for Islamism, I'm one of its fiercest opponents. But I belive there are far worthier causes to support in this world than Ms. Hirsi. We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

      "try being a woman and see! ( ha you might not find that one as easy as giving up le passport)"

      LOL! Well, I've always wanted to try on a skirt *blushes with embarrassment*
    • Annie
      If you look at the so called practises of 'islam' particularly with regards to women, you'll find that these practises vary with different regions of the world. I'm an atheist, but it seems that too many of us westerners speak too loosely with regards to the islamic religion & the treatment of women. Veils, arranged marriages etc - they're all, in many cases, chosen.
      A lot of women, having travelled around Asia & some parts of Africa, would love to have a different life. A life with education, a life with enough money to live on, a life where they can provide their children with essentials. However, at the same time, there is a resignation with what they do have and that's not to say that they're just accepting whatever their situation is & therefore feel they have no choice when it comes to marriage or wearing a veil (the two top examples people seem to use here). If anything, a lot of young western women seem to be opting for both (even arranged marriages) and without the resignation there would have been only a decade or two ago.
      If you look at the islamic 'rallies' & the awful things happen in Asian & African countries with muslims, men are at the forefront of the problem. Sure, we think it's all backwards, but like every other society and nation, it's not upto us to dismiss them ALL with one brush. It's upto us to wait & help when they have their change, and things are changing.
    • sonia

      Where is the dividing line though? Lets say it is obvious that when you step out of the box there are always going to be people with vested interests who will scream: Uncle Tom! That's a real phenomenon and we have to argue back against that mentality.

      But at the same time, what are somali/arab women in Holland saying at the grassroots? If all this is for them, to help them break the shackles of conservatism and oppression, what are they saying? Is Hirsi Ali helping them, or not?

      If not, what is wrong here?
    • Sid
      Sonia
      I'm in complete agreement with you. Whereas I can, at best, empathise with the position of women in, say, a Muslim society, I can never really feel it first hand. So I know what Hirsi-Ali's motivations are.

      What I'm less comfortable with is how she has allowed herself and her cause to be hijacked by the anti-Islamicate argument.

      As Jay says, she has probably caused more harm than good for Musim women, (in Holland at least).
    • Stephen
      I like this site. It often has moderate voices on issues of religion, asylum, islam that you don't often hear.

      The piece on Ayaan however is uncharacteristically nasty and vituperative. The quote from one activist above about her being an "Uncle Tom" was in particularly poor taste. As to her not doing anything constructive -- well she became an MP!
    • Just OT, but does anyone else find it patronising when we are patted on the head and congratulated like how Stephen just did?
    • epaminondas
      AL Hack your assumptive tones are dhimmispeak and past disgusting, beneath even the David Duke loving Arab News, and your asuumption about other lies evidence of suicidal wishes

      BTW please explain your assertion that she lied about genital mutilation?

      Personal knowledge or 14 year old pimple faced wishful thinking?
    • raz
      "Just OT, but does anyone else find it patronising when we are patted on the head and congratulated like how Stephen just did?"

      Yes you're right. I've heard several commenters say things like "It's good to see moderate Asian voices", etc, as if we are some rare breed of 'Good Asian' to be encouraged as opposed to the nasty 'Bad Asians' wallowing in extremism.
    • S
      'Just OT, but does anyone else find it patronising when we are patted on the head and congratulated like how Stephen just did?'

      well sorry for being polite. As that is inappropriate I'll just fuck off then and you can talk amongst yourselves.
    • LoL
    • Sid
      Stephen

      Stick around and please don't take offence.
    • Yeah Stephen don't throw your toys out of the pram. It was just talk.
    • raz
      LOL. Sensitive!
    • S
      ok-- no offence given or taken I hope.
    • Vikrant
      Haha... Al Hack, raz and other closet Islamists coming out in open. Some sort of progressive family we have over here eh?. If i hadnt been so busy, i'd had a field day in blowin u guys out of the water.

      OTOH Saner minds seem to prevail in Holland, AHA wont lose her citizenship afterall.
    • hirsi ali may or may not be helping - but why should she have a 'duty' to help any more than you? my point was about her as an individual, not as some kind of moral saviour.
    • justforfun
      Well is suppose we're not going to get a religion free day for some time to come :-(

      Stephen - yea stick around - Jay is easily patronised :-) - In fact its very difficult not to patronise him :-)

      In all the confusion there is not much to say that will be of any use - The episode has probably just entrenched views on all sides.


      So I'll add - I have not been here long so I can't back up Raz to the extent he wants (but he has a thick skin so can take the brickbats) but I can say I've only seen clothed girls in the pictures he has posted :-(

      Justforfun
    • Roger
      According to her own account Ms Ali only told one important lie: that she had been beaten when she had cleared out before that was likely to begin. "My father is a man that doesn't take no for an answer". As nearly every Soamli woman is genetically mutilated she probably received that too- her family would have said so if she didn't. As for her hostility to islam, it seems a pretty reasonable response given the way muslims have behaved to her.
    • Vikrant
      The piece on Ayaan however is uncharacteristically nasty and vituperative.

      Dont worry the author of this article oscassionaly rises from slumber to write a thing or two about pan-Islamist causes before disappearing for months.
    • jay singh - you're patronizing sometimes. why should it be patronizing when Stephen made a compliment? just cos you see him as some kind of 'outsider'? lots of others have said that about PP.

      no stephen, i don't think you're patronizing. stick around.
    • if anyone is going to closet themselves in as 'asian' then why be surprised when 'others' react to that!
    • Vikrant, please stick around here and blow everyone out of the water with your amazing brilliance - why are you too busy for us? Is Jihadwatch taking up too much of your time?
    • raz
      "I can say I’ve only seen clothed girls in the pictures he has posted"

      LOL! As much as I'd like to turn PP into a porn/hentai site, Sunny did claim that the primary focus of PP is politics not girls :(
    • Vikrant
      Unlike you i dont wanna end up having a mediocre job where only solace is insulting complete randoms with your Islamist playbuddies over the internet. Hence i'm quite busy studying.
    • Vikrant
      hentai site

      ewww...
    • Just OT, but does anyone else find it patronising when we are patted on the head and congratulated like how Stephen just did

      Jay - I find that patronising. Please stay away from personal observations and to the issues at hand.
    • Alright sonia don't bust a blood vessel over it.

      *pats sonia on the head*

      *gives JustfirFun a lollipop and says congratulations*
    • I have a great job Vikrant ;-)
    • Rakhee
      => As Jay says, she has probably caused more harm than good for Musim women, (in Holland at least).

      Spot on. What gets me about this story is not so much what she did, but the implications of her actions.

      The way in which ethnic groups (not just Muslims) are represented in the British media is not brilliant. I for one am sick of a picture being painted of ethnic groups just being immigrants who are detached from British society or people who are in desperate need of help (did anyone see Trevor McDonald's interview with Prince Charles last night where he kept referencing 'disenchanted ethnic groups? Grr).

      I'm not suggesting that these issues are not important. Quite the contrary, it is important to highlight the difficulties faced by ethnic groups.
      But I believe we need to see more positive stories about asians across the board.

      I was born and raised in the UK. Was brought up in a predominantly 'white' town and went to an all-girls roman catholic school. I experienced all of 2 racial incidences from the age of 7-21. In fact it wasn't until I came to London that I truly exposed myself to race issues and began experiencing them myself.

      What I will say is that it is possible to have the best of both worlds. I feel British but love my culture too. Because of this, I'd really like to see people like me better presented in the media.

      Ayaan's story will resonate through the european media and therefore will only add to some of the general public's negative misconceptions about Muslim (and other) groups.

      Sonia, your comment - that’s cos the media isn’t interested in real life or middle of the ground stories. the media wants spectacle, human drama, gossip and extreme stories. stuff that sells and appeals to the gossipy bitches in us all - is true to a certain degree but is also a massive generalisation. At the moment, we are making it soooo easy for the press to write negative stories about ethnic groups because it is rarely countered with positive ones.

      Ayaan Hirsi has only reinforced the negative perception. In fact, echoing you Jay, she's done more damage than good - something that we just didn't need.
    • I'm still waiting for one person to explain why other Muslim female voices in Holland are not given prominence over there, especially ones working with the grassroots and who are on the coal face of social issues dealing with the oppression of Muslim women.

      I believe the answer may lie partially in the reaction of squealing Jihadwatchers like Vikrant and others - she is a lightning rod for their generalised hatred of Muslims and a convenient tool to bait and goad Muslims with.

      I'll go even further than that. The relevance to the daily lives of somali/arab women in Holland of Ayaan Hirsi Ali is minimal. I am trying to work out how she has helped Muslim women facing oppression in any positive way - in fact, through strengthening the hands of the extremists, she may well have done them damage, because in the face of their wrath it becomes more difficult for others to speak out.
    • Vikrant
      I was born and raised in the UK. Was brought up in a predominantly ‘white’ town

      We cant even compare UK with Holland. Even i've spent a few years up in Carlisle in Cumbria (whiter than white as they say). Most the Turkish/African immigrants in Holland come straight out of the villages bringing with them many negative aspects of their culture. We shouldnt worry about perceptions but about the actual conditions of these immigrant women who inspite of living in west are denied various freedoms we take for granted.
    • Vikrant
      Jay,

      I am critical of Islamism not Muslims in general get the difference?
    • Its hard to tell with you Vikrant especially when you talk about how your step-mum informs you that the BBC is 'infested with Muslim lovers'
    • Vikrant
      For all your progressiveness Jay, if i ever say the same things (you've said about AHA) about Deepa Mehta/Romilla Thapar/Teesta Seetalvad you'd whining Hindutva aint it?
    • Vikrant
      typical pinko Jay, dont you anything better to do with your time than trailing a 16yr old all over the internet.
    • I was initially supportive of Ali because she seemed to have come out of genuine hardship and therefore was pissed off at the overtly-PC atmosphere that existed in the Netherlands.

      To a certain extent she was needed because the NEtherlands, like the UK, was giving free rein to Islamists and hate-mongers to spout whatever rubbish they wanted to, and take advantage of the system.

      But all those who say "she only spoke the truth" have to ask whether they are once again fitting the narrative into their own prejudices. The vast majority of Muslims did not go out there to kill her despite her constant anti-Muslim attacks, which we can now see were based on lies.

      She used the right-wing establishment and conjured up an agenda that suited them. And now she plans to do it in America.

      It is NOT possible, if you want to reform a system, to attack it without knowing anything about it and demonising the people there. I don't think people like j0nz get that.

      It would be a bit like us here on PP demanding less bigotry and more solidarity within the Asian community by attacking whites and constantly painting them as evil people out to get us.

      We know change has to come within the Asian community (Sikhs, Hindu and Muslim), but it comes from the fact that we also care about our communities. You think if we all stood on a podium and waxed lyrically about how rubbish Asian values and culture was - that it would change?

      The same applies to Ali. Now she is gone, maybe relations between white and Muslim Dutch people will improve, and they will be more willing to work together.
    • We shouldnt worry about perceptions but about the actual conditions of these immigrant women who inspite of living in west are denied various freedoms we take for granted

      But raz has provided quotes from women who work in that capacity in Holland who are saying that Hirsi Ali has not helped them and makes things worse. Isnt it strange how the anointed standard bearer of liberation has to simultaneously be perceived as generally pandering to prejudice about Muslims? Are people seriously saying that she is the one and only and eternal keeper of the flame on the issue of Islamic oppression of women?

      I dont buy it.
    • Good points Rakhee and Sonia.
    • Vikrant
      I perfectly well understand the Muslim sentiments over AHA. Not content with leaving Islam she prefers to bash it all her life. But then had she been a Hindu-basher or a Sikh-basher i bet 50 quid you guys would have been writing odes to her
    • Vikrant, I read a few of your tastiest contributions to Jihadwatch by chance, don't be so paranoid. That was my favourite, the one about the BBC being infested with Muslim lovers - nice imagery there, Muslims and their lovers being vermin and all that.

      Say what you want about Romila Thapar, I couldnt give a shit.
    • justforfun
      Rakhee - as you say - Its the implications for the future that is important. Now that there is the doubt in peoples' minds that she cried 'Wolf' - when the wolf does come we will be in real trouble as people will hesitate to act.

      Same damn thing with Tony Blair, having cried wolf over Iraq , it is just totally irresponsible and downright dangerous for him to carry on as PM because as the final long stop in the defense of this country we cannot have anyone who is undersuspicion of crying 'Wolf'. He has crippled this country's ability to defend itself for decades to come.

      On a lighter note - ... I’d really like to see people like me better presented in the media. - Rakhee - just stay clear of Sunny's photographer and stylist and you'll do fine.


      Justforfun
    • justforfun
      Just a quick change

      - 'the wolf' to 'a wolf'. Note to myself - better proofreading or I'll show up my prejudices.

      Justforfun
    • Vikrant
      Well i've sort of told you this before i wasnt me.... I gave up Jihadwatch once i realised most posters over there are noithing but a silly bunch of igorant rednecks.
    • Geezer
      I’m still waiting for one person to explain why other Muslim female voices in Holland are not given prominence over there, especially ones working with the grassroots and who are on the coal face of social issues dealing with the oppression of Muslim women.

      I believe the answer may lie partially in the reaction of squealing Jihadwatchers like Vikrant and others - she is a lightning rod for their generalised hatred of Muslims and a convenient tool to bait and goad Muslims with.[jay singh]

      Spot on fella....

      Also the likes of great woman like Sara Hossain Bangladesh and Dr Zeinab Ranjbar of Iran still believe in their faith and yet work tirelessly in the cause of woman rights.

      But this is unacceptable to rabid frothing at the mouth bigots who can't bear the thought of such people having Islam as their faith which they see as the root of all evil, So are hence not given a minute of their time.
    • Geezer
      Vikrant, I read a few of your tastiest contributions to Jihadwatch by chance, don’t be so paranoid. That was my favourite, the one about the BBC being infested with Muslim lovers - nice imagery there, Muslims and their lovers being vermin and all that.[Jay singh]

      LOL! OWNED.....
    • Geezer
      Oh ok I just saw Vikrant's response sorry about my above post.
    • justforfun
      Note to Sunny - better proof reading will lead to better logic


      ...her despite her constant anti-Muslim attacks, which we can now see were based on lies

      Wasn't her asylum application the thing that was based on lies. No one has posted a link yet on the extent of her lies - I have asked. Were not her anti-Muslim attacks were based on her own experiance and the experiance of others. To say they are based on lies might lull people into complacency. "All is OK with the world - she made it all up" - "everyone go back home now - nothing to see here".

      Sunny - when you run for political office you're going to have to be sharp - super sharp. :-) -

      Justforfun
    • I don't even think it's about that Geezer.

      I think it's about the atmosphere in which grassroots Muslim activists operate.

      On the one hand they already have to face the wrath of bigots and conservatives who say that what you are doing is wrong, our ways dont need reforming.

      How does Hirsi Ali help them fight against that attitude? All it does is strengthen conservatives and gives them another stick to distract and beat the reformers with.

      It's going about things the wrong way completely.

      I dont know - maybe she has done lots of grassroots work to help Muslim women. But by polarising debate like this you get a situation where the whole issue becomes one of choose Islam or the West, you basically handicap grassroots female reformers.

      I don't think people understand that point. But I dont even think the media care about it because they dont even seem to want to take the effort to consult and look for them. They don't exist. All that exists is Ayaan Hirsi Ali the messiah of the Enlightenment against the barbarians. And thats just a skewed perspective on things.
    • justforfun

      The point about lying is that she said she escaped a forced marriage and lived in squalor as a refugee from Somalia, when in reality she comes from a prosperous family in Kenya, lived in a nice house, and her family didnt even arrange a marriage for her. If her arguments were sound why the need for the spin?

      It's a question worth asking, especially since she is being painted as the sole keeper of the flame against oppression of Muslim women, despite the fact that Muslim activists who disagree with her analysis and work on the street level are ignored by the media who keep stereotyping and ignore those other voices.

      This is what the director of the largest Muslim womens shelter in Amsterdam says:

      With her message that Muslim women must give up their faith and their families if they want to be liberated, Hirsi Ali is actually driving women into the arms of the fundamentalists, said Belhaj: “She attacks their values, so they are wearing more and more veils. It frightens me. I’m losing my country. I’m losing my people.”

      http://www.thenation.com/docprem.mhtml?i=200506...

      Why are people not listening to that? How can you paint the director of the largest shelter for battered women in Amsterdam as being against womens rights?

      You have to do alot of insulting to maintain that line.
    • Sid
      Geezer

      Also the likes of great woman like Sara Hossain Bangladesh and Dr Zeinab Ranjbar of Iran still believe in their faith and yet work tirelessly in the cause of woman rights.

      Well I think Sara Hossain and many women working in the fraught field of Muslim Women's Rights are probably not a "believers" as such. Nor should that even matter.

      She probably has more case stories about the brutality and violence inflicted on women than Ayaan Hirsi has used for her own benefit with the anti-Islam "syndicate" to froth over. What she hasn't done is used this to personalise and polarise the issue to pay for her meal ticket.
    • justforfun
      Jay - thanks for the lollipop:-)

      The point about lying is that she said she escaped a forced marriage and lived in squalor as a refugee from Somalia, when in reality she comes from a prosperous family in Kenya, lived in a nice house, and her family didnt even arrange a marriage for her. If her arguments were sound why the need for the spin?

      Why indeed the need for the spin? I have no idea and anything I say would be pure conjucture. But you know in any debate the presence of spin does not negate the arguements. The two should be kept apart and I think, as you have said, the end result is that the debate is skewed away from what is important.

      It’s a question worth asking - well it would be interesting to ask "why the spin?" but is it the important question?

      I am not sure if she is being painted as the sole keeper of the flame against oppression of Muslim women , but as you allude - a question to ask is why is the media not reporting the other strategies other women take to improve their lot. I have not heard about Shirin Edabi for a while, so maybe its a case of only one person can be in the spotlight at one time?

      Jay _ I tried your link - is the article in the subscriber section as I could not find it?


      Jay - can I be a bit pedantic? - you wrote
      How can you paint the director of the largest shelter for battered women in Amsterdam as being against womens rights?

      You have to do alot of insulting to maintain that line.


      I have done nothing of the sort - I think you meant to write 'one' instead of 'you'


      Another lolipop? :-)





      Justforfun
    • I was using the generic 'you' - those whose positioning would mean discounting the director of the womans shelter as in some way being in denial over the issues facing Muslim women in Holland.

      That line might work with Muslim men who present that argument. It might work with conservative religious Muslim women. But when the director of the battered womans shelter says it, you have to listen.
    • justforfun
      Jay - I knew that is what you meant - but someone reading the thread may not have - you know the sort wh o inhabit this place ;-)

      And I agree - But when the director of the battered womans shelter says it, you have to listen.


      As I say could not get the link to work or am I just blind? which is quite possible.


      Justforfun
    • I pasted that quote from the extract raz gave @ post 21 - scroll above to see.
    • "hirsi is condemned for being a liar, a fraud, a publicity seeker"

      oh well in that case - sounds like we can condemn just about anyone in the media then! ;-)
    • or any politician just about!
    • don't worry jay ive not bust a blood vessel :-) - why i didnt bother pointing out the obvious - all this stuff about 'ooh whats good for muslim women' being somewhat patronizing! but of course you went and got all huffy at some harmless remark :-)
    • OK sonia! I am relieved.
    • lucy
      one hundred posts fail to prove the serious accusation in the OP. indeed there's no response.
      and on a minor note 'Ms' is a preferable default to use, IMO. unless the post author has actually checked if she prefers to be indentified by her marital status.
    • Rakhee
      Jay / Justforfun - the point about lying is err, SHE LIED. Doesn't matter what faith you are - if you lie in the public arena and get found out, the media will have a field day. This is true about ALL politicians, celebrities and the like and no 'spin' will help her out of this one.

      Justforfun - thanks for the advice to stay clear of Sunny’s photographer and stylist. Now where did I put my wig and sunglasses..
    • j0nz
      How does Hirsi Ali help them fight against that attitude? All it does is strengthen conservatives and gives them another stick to distract and beat the reformers with.

      So that's the reason people are calling her a "silly bitch" then? Because conservatives admire her!

      How fucking weak is that? Jay Singh I'm surprised at your comments here. So the real problem is... she has support from the evil conservatives! (who don't happen to want the Western values to be gradually subjugated to Islamic ones).

      I am amazed at some of the comments here. I thought the left were on the moral high ground or something? With people like this, who needs Islamists?!
    • yeah the media never has anything better to do. still always focus on someone else's lies so your own won't be found out!

      ha ha
    • j0nz - :-)
    • j0nz
      Hang on sec, it's the right that want Muslims to integrate.

      It's the left that defend "ooh its there culture" crap. It's the left that ally themselves with wife-beaters and homosexual wannabe murderers.

      How many Conservatives have you encountered that ally themsleves with Islamic fundamentalists??? NONE.

      How many on the left? Jeez, how long have you got??
    • j0nz
      And I do apologise for saying "the left" - I am well aware that not all lefties are like that. The one's I am referring to are generally want I would consider far-left.
    • Sid
      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    • How many Conservatives have you encountered that ally themsleves with Islamic fundamentalists?

      j0nz - except that many people on the right use the same language as the fanatics. They just use it to build a barrier, loving the 'clash of civilisations' argument much like the fanatics do. Just read Melanie Phillips as an example.
    • Vikrant
      How many on the left? Jeez, how long have you got??

      Jeez you dont have to spend many days on this blog to realise this. Sunny, Al Hack's contributions to PP are pretty dubious i must say.
    • j0nz
      When was the last time Melanie Phillips last recommended wife-beating, or allied her self with a wife-beater????

      They just use it to build a barrier, loving the ‘clash of civilisations’ argument much like the fanatics do.

      Well we're not one for burying our heads in the sand. We listen to what they have to say, you clearly do not.

      How do the left explain the 7th July bombings? Invariably the Iraq war. However if you listen to their tapes they say the reason is our brothers being oppressed *around the world*.
    • j0nz
      When I say "you" I don't mean specifically you Sunny
    • jOnz

      You need to read more carefully and not be dissapointed by what I say.

      Well we’re not one for burying our heads in the sand. We listen to what they have to say, you clearly do not.

      So your line is - we are supporters of wife battering honour killing mullahs? You kind of make the point that some of us have been discussing in the thread above on some issues.
    • j0nz
      So your line is - we are supporters of wife battering honour killing mullahs? You kind of make the point that some of us have been discussing in the thread above on some issues.

      No YOU need to read a little closer. Did I say that or anything approaching that?
    • So what are you so apoplectic about?
    • j0nz
      Al-Hack lying to further his own agenda, and other people agreeing with him. In common with Islamic fundamentalists who want to slash her throat.

      See comments 1, 6, 7.

      Vitriolic personal attacks on this woman is just beyond me. "Silly bitch" etc.
    • Bikhair
      Pickled Politics,

      I do wish I could speak on this topic but I doubt if I have the credibility to do so. I would like to say, speaking from a purely Islamic perspective that, you cannot force your daughter to get married.

      Female circumcision is another issue because it is often confused with the removal of the whole clitoris which is something the pre-Islamic muskirks do. Whatever female circumcision in Islam is isnt the above nor is it obligatory but what you will find are people from certain parts of the world who did it before Islam, and continue to do it.

      With regard to wife beating, Prophet Muhammed on one occasion struck Ayesha in the chest for something unpleasant she did, and we all know that ayat from the Quran and the rebellious wives. It should be noted however that this act, though permissible, is completely discouraged.

      Any man who beats his wife, is not acting with the permission of the Quran or Prophet Muhammed's example as the best of the men toward his family. (His words not mine.)

      We can go on and on about Muslim behavior but it shouldnt be confused with Islam. Muslims should be condemened for the crimes they commit against their women folk, but as a Muslim I condemn them with the Quran and Prophet Muhammed living example.


      Ok, I have found 21 infected objects on my computer after running a virus scan. Can any brainy Sub-continental help me.

      Thanks.
    • mirax
      >>Can any brainy Sub-continental help me

      See, bikhair- the ethnics are good for something afterall! Nope I am not brainy enough to help you. Sorry.
    • Jai
      Bikhair,

      Go to this link and download Ad-Aware SE Personal (it's free): http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_descripti...

      You will have to update the definition file once you have installed the software.

      It should then be able to solve the problem, although don't rely solely on this software if other anti-virus/anti-spyware applications are also available to you (just in case Ad-Aware misses anything).

      I hope this helps.
    • Bikhair
      Jai,

      Is this just a virus scanner? I've already got one of those I need to get rid of my infection. He He, that sounded wierd. Seriously though, I am freaking out cuz my pc is running so slow.
    • mirax
      Jai, I have Ad-aware SE Pro but but did not mention it as I was under the impression that Bikhair's problems required more specialist help. Oh well, good luck Bikhair. We don't want to miss out on your sterling contributions to PP just cause some nasty virus laid you low... ;-)
    • mirax
      Bik,

      I found lots of useful information on tech support guys (http://www.techguy.org/) a couple of years ago when I had nasty virus problems I had to solve on my own. Try it.
    • mirax
      http://www.techguy.org/

      this should be clickable.
    • Geezer
      That's the link for the documentary that led to the Immigration authorities doing the probe on Ayaan

      A great deal of it is especially when they are in Africa is in English.
    • mirax
      " VARA, a television station with social democratic leanings, aired a 40-minute documentary last Thursday called "The Holy Ayaan." VARA's reporters had traveled all the way to Mogadishu in Somalia to obtain information they could just as easily have found on recordings of their own station's programs: that Ayaan Hirsi Ali had long since admitted that she lied when she applied for Dutch asylum."

      What a joke that 'expose' was!
      More from http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0...
    • John Browne
      never heard of her.
      Next.

      John
    • Bikhair
      Yusuf,

      Who is actually persecuting her? Isnt she being hounded by a "right-wing" immigration reformer, the very people who have supported her up util now?

      Are they caving into "islamofacist" pressure? Exactly who are the facist pressuring her and why do they have so much influence in that country? What steps have they taken to have her removed from the country? Wouldnt that same pressure be put against other immigrants who havent exactly been very candid in their asylum applications?

      What exactly is going on here? Is anyone unbiased enough to just tell the plain truth or are our political agenda so important that we cant even be honest about this?
    • Khalid
      Ayaan's case has reinforced the notion that the anti-Islamists will do or say anything. She has also made it harder for legitimate asylum seekers to escape real oppression as opposed to ideologically crafted lies. She has cause nothing but problems since she began her divisive campaign and just like Abu Lahab, the people are beginning to see the light...
    • Don
      John,

      'never heard of her.
      Next.'

      If you are ignorant of the topic, why post?

      I've been giving it some thought, and I don't like the cut of your jib.
    • Old Pickler
      The vast majority of Muslims did not go out there to kill her despite her constant anti-Muslim attacks, which we can now see were based on lies.

      Hilarious. Well that's big of them isn't it? Even if she lied, which, when it comes to Islam, she didn't, is it something to be admired that Muslims didn't kill her for those lies?

      Time and again we are supposed to make allowances for Muslims and praise them to the skies if they act like normal people.

      What a disgraceful - and deeply misogynist - post.

      This is a sexist website, that's for sure.
    • georges
      As I read through the threads on this blog, I kept coming across the phrase "Muslim women". Each time I tried reading again, but substituting other phrases, such as "Quaker women", "Jewish women", "Buddhist women", "Scientologist women", "Falun Gong women", "Moonie women", "Raelian women", "women who believe in the David Icke alien reptilian conspiracy" - and even "Atheist women". I don't think "Muslim women" is a useful description.
    • Vikrant
      Bikki,

      Can you be more specific on what infection did you get? Since my computer is one of the most infected in the world (on account of my promiscoucs websurfing) i'm a bit of virsu expert myself having authored several BFU scripts myself.
    • Yusuf Smith
      Bikhair: well, I don't see why the Dutch government would be giving into "Islamofascist" pressures given that they have a record of showing disrespect for even normal Islamic practice, hence the meeting being cancelled when the imams refused to shake Verdonkey's hand. My hunch is that as long as her real status remained forgotten, she was an asset to them, and now she is an embarrassment.
    • Vikrant
      BTW can anybody here suggest some exotic Hindi-Urdu insults to throw at those CarPhone guys who ripped me off
      £184...
    • Bikhair
      Yusuf,

      I am starting to believe that this was a manufacutred splash. If she is getting hooked up in America of course it makes perfect since to make it seem that she is being hunted out of her job. She probably wanted to leave Dutch land anyway.

      What a way to start her career in the USA considering the European politics is really despised in this country, by people who have never lived or visited the place, and everyone counting down Europe's doom to the Muslims.

      Ok, ok, I get it already.
    • Bikhair
      Vikrant,

      Unless you are getting ready to start a very productive day take yourself to sleep. Its 1:00am where I am and if I could go to bed I would be but because of my procrastination I am up on the PC doing work.

      I didnt know you were a white boy. I guess everyone ethnicity is coming out of the closet. I hope people on PP continue to take us non-Asian seriously.

      If it will help, while contributing to the blog, I will wear ghastly colorful clothes and gawdy gold jewery from ear to nose to neck to wrist- in that order. Ha Ha Ha....
    • Roger
      "I don’t think “Muslim women” is a useful description."

      The appropriate behaviour for muslim women is very precisely prescribed in the quran and hadith and by their interpreters. In fact, you could use "orthodox jewish women" and "fundamentalist christian women" equally accurately- until very recently just "jewish" or "christian" without the qualification.
    • Jai
      Bikhair,

      Re: Ad-Aware.

      Apologies for the delay in replying.

      This software isn't just a "virus scanner", it also enables you to safely quarantine and remove the viruses from your system. If you install it and then run it, I believe it comes with instruction files on how to use it.

      Another good tool is Spybot - Search & Destroy (http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_descripti... ), although you'll have to update the definition file for this one too once you've installed it. It's quite good, although takes a lot longer to run than Ad-Aware, and the latter is better. But try both anyway.

      As mentioned before, you should -- however -- also use other spyware removal software if you have access to such tools (AOL Broadband comes with free software in this regard; you can also buy more thorough software to clean up your system but this may obviously be a little expensive).
    • Vikrant
      I didnt know you were a white boy.

      Naah i'm not white... i'm an Asian like every one here. Vikrant means Victor in Sanskrit. Its just that my knowledge of Hindi (especially the abuses part) is crap.
    • raz
      Vikrant,

      http://www.insultmonger.com/swearing/urdu.htm

      Warning - this site has NSFW ads.
    • Vikrant
      hmm me thought... mad'chud and bhen'chud are Marathi gallis. I seems all gallies are interchangable between subcontinental languages. Wait till i use a few at those CarPhone Whorehouse bastards. My SE w550i is dead within a month and they arent ready to replace it.... man i wanted a phone not an expensive paperweight
    • Vikrant
      lol raz what a link! some funny words... especially Gand me Aatishbaazi
    • Magyar
      "Ayaan’s story will resonate through the european media and therefore will only add to some of the general public’s negative misconceptions about Muslim (and other) groups."

      But it's not because what she did, but because what has been done to her i.e. the death threats...
    • Magyar
      "She used the right-wing establishment and conjured up an agenda that suited them. And now she plans to do it in America."

      Initially she worked for the Social Democrats (just for the records)
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