BNP got pwned in Norwich North


by Sunny
24th July, 2009 at 2:44 pm    

The BNP got a grand total of 941 votes in Norwich North. Very impressive. I thought that people were turning to the BNP in their millions to voice the silent majority of (white) people of Britain and protest against political correctness gone mad?


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  1. pickles

    New blog post: BNP got pwned in Norwich North http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5287


  2. Matt Borum

    Pickled Politics » BNP got pwned in Norwich North- The BNP got a grand total of 941 votes in Norwich No… http://bit.ly/1VJ6dM




  1. Tom — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:08 pm  

    Maybe they haven’t, but they should! This country is ruined!

  2. Duncan Stott — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:22 pm  

    The Google Ad I have got with this post is “How I Lightened My Skin”. Eeek.

  3. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:25 pm  

    The far right traditionally do well when the left are politically in the ascendant. Now the Tories, who makes some of the noises that appeal to non-hardcore BNP voters, are seemingly unassailable they’ll probably fade a bit

    Incidentally following the Sikh police for Sikh victims story – which the Daily Express ran as “Muslims (!) could get their own police” the BNP has also followed the story using Muslims not Sikhs

    Yet more proof of the collaboration and continuance between extremists in the Jewish community and the BNP

  4. halima — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:28 pm  

    “Yet more proof of the collaboration and continuance between extremists in the Jewish community and the BNP”

    Why?

  5. Rumbold — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:29 pm  

    What are you talking about Munir? How does it show any link between Jews and the BNP? Evidence please.

  6. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:39 pm  

    Because the proprietor of the Express group is Jewish. Doh!

    In the fifties and early sixties we had what was known as the ‘Reds under the beds’ scare. I think Munir imagines Katy, BB and I (possibly assisted by Marvin, cjcjcj et al) are under his!

  7. Sofia — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:41 pm  

    seriously…munir plz…why do you see conspiracies everywhere

  8. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:43 pm  

    chairwoman
    “Because the proprietor of the Express group is Jewish. Doh!”

    quite- a bastion of the Jewish community and a (the?) leading promoter of hatred of Muslims in the land

    “In the fifties and early sixties we had what was known as the ‘Reds under the beds’ scare. I think Munir imagines Katy, BB and I (possibly assisted by Marvin, cjcjcj et al) are under his!”

    Im talking of extremist Muslim-hating Jews like Desmond or Mel Phillips. Im not sure it refers to you but if the cap fits……

    Given the Express and many of the Jewish far right belive Muslims are plotting to take over the west Eurabia” -thats rich

  9. Rumbold — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:43 pm  

    This seems the best time to ask. Is there a great demand for Munir to be deleted/banned? I have had a number of complaints about his abusive behaviour, including a note from the Dark Rabbi (who resides in the Fortress of Zion and is worried about Munir uncovering the truth about the Sikh-Jewish-BNP-Libertarian conspiracy).

  10. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:43 pm  

    Because we’re out to get him Sofia :)

    Wouldn’t you be paranoid if the Jews were out to get you?

  11. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:46 pm  

    Munir – quite seriously, the Express isn’t the journal de choix of the Jewish community (nor any other community judging by its figures). It used to be Telegraph, but as I don’t get to the shops these days, this may have changed.

  12. Shamit — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:48 pm  

    2.74% of the population voted for the BNP

    while the vote share of UKIP and the Green party went up the BNP went down and incidentally came behind the independent.

    Sunny is right is asking what happened to the people who are signing up to the BNP cause in droves?

    I can’t wait to see the press release they release on this one after all, their recent press releases were all about celebrating victory and inviting patriots to join them.

  13. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:49 pm  

    Let me get this straight, Munir appears to be suspicious of Jews, because some Jews are suspicious of Muslims, who are suspicious of Jews because…..

  14. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:50 pm  

    Sofia
    “seriously…munir plz…why do you see conspiracies everywhere”

    not quite clear where the conspiracy is- its pretty crystal clear. Desmond and others on the Jewish far right demonise Muslims for the sake of Israel. Griffin and the BNP pick up on this and ride the crest of the wave: “a great political opportunity to surf our message into the public mind on the back of a media tsunami of ‘Islamophobia’”

  15. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:51 pm  

    As Norfolk is one of the ‘whitest’ counties in the UK that’s particularly good news.

  16. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:53 pm  

    Munir and people of his mindset demonise Jews because of Israel and then wonders why similar (Jewish) lunatics do the same in reverse.

    This is becoming seriously Pythonesque.

  17. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:54 pm  

    chairwoman
    “Munir – quite seriously, the Express isn’t the journal de choix of the Jewish community (nor any other community judging by its figures). It used to be Telegraph, but as I don’t get to the shops these days, this may have changed.”

    The fact remains that Desmond is chairman of one of Britains leading Jewish charities Norwood. The fact despite his rabid hatred of Muslims his papers push this is still the case is the issue at hand and one that poisions Muslim-Jewish relations.

    Were he rejected by the Jewish community it would not be an issue- but instead he has been chosen as a represenentative !

  18. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:57 pm  

    chairwoman
    “Munir and people of his mindset demonise Jews because of Israel and then wonders why similar (Jewish) lunatics do the same in reverse.”

    No- when did I demonise Jews because of Israel?
    Are you seriously suggetsing Richard Desmonds spreads his poison because of me?

    Frankly I find your defence of Jewish extremists deeply disturbing and hypocritical (since you demand Muslims condemn our extremists)

  19. Sofia — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:58 pm  

    is it cuz he is jewish…??

  20. Sofia — on 24th July, 2009 at 3:58 pm  

    plenty of right wing muslims who are anti jewish too..and what??

  21. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:06 pm  

    “(since you demand Muslims condemn our extremists)”

    No I don’t, and BTW I hold no brief for Mr Desmond and his dreadful newspapers, but Norwood-Ravenswood does sterling work with Jewish people with learning difficulties, and is literally used as an example worldwide for what can be done, and I won’t allow you to knock it, directly or indirectly, because the current Chairman is a pillock.

    It will continue to do its good work no matter who the nominal head is.

  22. Shamit — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:14 pm  

    I was hoping to get some BNP trolls here to try to spin this.

  23. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:17 pm  

    Hold on – Richard Desmond has just joined Me, Katy, BB, Marvin, cjcjcj etc., under Munir’s bed.

  24. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:19 pm  

    Sofia
    “plenty of right wing muslims who are anti jewish too..and what??”

    They dont have national nespapers to spew their hatred to millions

  25. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:20 pm  

    chairwoman
    “Hold on – Richard Desmond has just joined Me, Katy, BB, Marvin, cjcjcj etc., under Munir’s bed.”

    Yes its part of my Eurabia plan to make you dhimmis.

    I refer you to Jewish writer Baet Yor’s book “Eurabia”

  26. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:24 pm  

    chairwoman

    “No I don’t, and BTW I hold no brief for Mr Desmond and his dreadful newspapers, but Norwood-Ravenswood does sterling work with Jewish people with learning difficulties, and is literally used as an example worldwide for what can be done, and I won’t allow you to knock it, directly or indirectly, because the current Chairman is a pillock.

    It will continue to do its good work no matter who the nominal head is.”

    Yeah Im sure if Islamic Relief appointed Anjem Choudhury its head there would be no complaint from the Jewish community

    “Hold on – Richard Desmond has just joined Me, Katy, BB, Marvin, cjcjcj etc., under Munir’s bed.”

    Seriously you happily allying yourself and defedning Muslim-hating extremists is distrubing and revealing.

    You seem to be imply an attack on Desmond and other Jewish extremists is like an attack on you and other Jewish commentators on here.

  27. Sunny — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:28 pm  

    You seem to be imply an attack on Desmond and other Jewish extremists is like an attack on you and other Jewish commentators on here.

    But you’re the one picking up on his Jewishness. Desmond is a twat regardless of his background.

  28. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:29 pm  

    Get a grip Munir, I’m not seriously doing anything. That’s the whole point.

    And as for Anjem Choudhury, I hope I am sufficiently relaxed to separate his charity work from his political work, as long as he did.

  29. cjcjc — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:29 pm  

    Needless to say I am keeping as far away from Munir’s bed as possible!

    (Where do you live?)

  30. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:33 pm  

    “Desmond is a twat regardless of his background.”

    As (I hope) I implied earlier.

  31. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:35 pm  

    cjcjcj @ 29 – I’ve literally just laughed till I cried.

  32. Sofia — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:35 pm  

    24 – no…they just use the internet

  33. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:39 pm  

    Sunny
    But you’re the one picking up on his Jewishness. Desmond is a twat regardless of his background.

    Ah yes but Desmond picks up the Muslim identity of the baddies he puts in his paper (to the exclusion of other groups) -often he puts headlines using “Muslims xyz” – (not “some Muslims”, extremists Muslims – “Muslims” all of us).

    Im not sure why I shouldnt extend the same courtesy to such a nazi tw*t of mentioning his background.

  34. Jane — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:39 pm  

    If so many people are not voting BNP one wonders what they really want. I don’t see anything good about the way society is going and we are reaching a fork in the road where one way lies peace and harmony (the BNP’s socialist route) and the other way lies mass genocide and perpetual war (the multiracialist route). Yes I did get it the right way around!

  35. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:43 pm  

    cjcjc
    “Needless to say I am keeping as far away from Munir’s bed as possible!”

    Thank G-d. Otherwise youd discover the 16 year old girl from Pakistan I forceably married and have prevented leaving the house on pain of an honour killing. Or even worse the white b*tch Ive been slapping around and pimping while getting her addicted to heroin.
    Thats what we Muslim men do cjcjc.

  36. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:43 pm  

    Sofia
    “24 – no…they just use the internet”

    Gee Sofia .. which do you think has wider circulation?

    Think hard Sofia. Think.

  37. Sunny — on 24th July, 2009 at 4:48 pm  

    Im not sure why I shouldnt extend the same courtesy to such a nazi tw*t of mentioning his background.

    Because you’re being hypocritical. If there were a gunman who killed people, and happened to be Muslim – you’d say that his religion was unrelated to his actions as a killer. The Express has always been a racist paper regardless of who owns it. Those are its values.

    So his Jewishness is unrelated – but you seem determined to pick up on it, rather like those Geert Wilders type nutjobs who jump on anything bad a Muslim person does so they can exploit his religion for their political ends.

  38. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 5:04 pm  

    Sunny
    “Because you’re being hypocritical.”

    No Im giving him a taste of his own medicine

    ” If there were a gunman who killed people, and happened to be Muslim – you’d say that his religion was unrelated to his actions as a killer. The Express has always been a racist paper regardless of who owns it. Those are its values.”

    True. So why you are so keen to defend and pussy foot around the proprietor of a racist Newspaper is beyond me.

    “So his Jewishness is unrelated ”

    Really? Is Anjem Choudhurys Muslimness unrelated?
    Desmond is a rabid right wing apologist for Israel -if you dont think this informs his Islamophobia (recall his Daily Star does likewise) you are being disingenous.

    “– but you seem determined to pick up on it, rather like those Geert Wilders type nutjobs who jump on anything bad a Muslim person does so they can exploit his religion for their political ends.”

    or like Richard Desmons , you mean?

  39. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 5:04 pm  

    The Express has a circulation of about 730,000 which means a readership of marginally more than 1 o/o of the UK population. Compared with the worldwide internet readership, and the global Muslim population, I think that Muslim antisemitic bloggers might just have the edge on the express in the propaganda stakes.

    Discuss.

  40. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 5:11 pm  

    Rumbold

    This seems the best time to ask. Is there a great demand for Munir to be deleted/banned? I have had a number of complaints about his abusive behaviour, including a note from the Dark Rabbi (who resides in the Fortress of Zion and is worried about Munir uncovering the truth about the Sikh-Jewish-BNP-Libertarian conspiracy).

    Rumbold my mentioning Desmond’s Jewishness is no different from your mentioning that most forced marriage victims originate from Pakistan/Bangladesh. Different standards yet again.

    “If Desmond were from Norway and Brazil I would say so.”
    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5208#comment-171811

    As Ravi Naik said “since when are FACTS anti-semitic”

    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5208#comment-171817

    :)

  41. Don — on 24th July, 2009 at 5:13 pm  

    And another thread derailed by munir before reaching more than a handful of comments.

  42. fugstar — on 24th July, 2009 at 5:18 pm  

    you’re happy with the tories caning it and the greens flopping in a big way?

  43. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 5:29 pm  

    chairwoman

    The Express has a circulation of about 730,000 which means a readership of marginally more than 1 o/o of the UK population.

    Duh chairwoman do you think that maybe more than just the buyers of the paper read it? What about the internet edition?
    You also forget Desmonds equally virulent Daily Star which has a higher circulation (768,534)

    Compared with the worldwide internet readership, and the global Muslim population, I think that Muslim antisemitic bloggers might just have the edge on the express in the propaganda stakes.

    Pure idiocy – which anti-semitic bloggers are you referring to? Name them.

    Which Muslim newspapers called for the banning of Jewish religious dress in the UK as the Express has with niqab and hijab?

    Do they or any national newspapers have headlines like?

    “Doctors give in to Jews”
    ‘Christmas is banned; it offends Jews’,
    ‘Now Jews get their own laws in Britain’
    ‘Jews tell us how to run our schools’.
    “Now Jews use OUR courts”
    “Jews: Labour’s Patence Runs Out”
    “Kippeh case teacher costs us £250,000″

    And there isnt a single Muslim language that all Muslims would understand. And we are talking about the UK- you went from comparing the UK (when talking about the Express) to comparing the world!

    idiot

  44. Don — on 24th July, 2009 at 5:51 pm  

    Obviously Labour knew going in that they were going to get a kicking, Hoon on Newsnight more or less conceded that they had thrown the seat away (nothing to do with him, guv). But this wasn’t a question of Labour voters staying home or going for traditional protest vote parties, they went tory.

    Particular local conditions aside, it seems to me that we have moved past the phase of protest votes and ‘sending a message’ to the government unless the message is, ‘Go. Really, seriously, we mean it. And we’re changing the locks. Are you still here? What part of 23 skidoo do you not understand?’

  45. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 6:33 pm  

    Munir I am certainly not an idiot and having cut my teeth in newspapers probably know more about circulation than you.

    Antisemitic bloggers? The internet’s crawling with them but frankly I ignore and avoid them. After reading your bile I’ve had quite enough, but if you want me to point you in their direction, then a quick trawl will bring the scum to the surface.

    You may not be an antisemite per se, but your obsession with Israel, and the way you bring it and Jews into every damn thread on this site is close enough for jazz.

    Should you be banned? Hell no. You are an example of what an unhealthy interest in something that one has no power over what-so-ever can lead to.

  46. Raymond Terrific — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:13 pm  

    Why is this Munir idiot allowed to keep posting?

  47. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:15 pm  

    chairwoman

    Antisemitic bloggers? The internet’s crawling with them but frankly I ignore and avoid them. After reading your bile I’ve had quite enough, but if you want me to point you in their direction, then a quick trawl will bring the scum to the surface.

    Great. You explicitly stated there were anti-semitic blogs which have more Muslim readers (in the UK) than the Islamophobic Daily Express which has a circulation of 700,000+. So name them

    You may not be an antisemite per se

    Oh phew I am so relieved I cant tell you- can I get a kosher stamp from the Chief Rabbi?
    Im still deliberating on whether you are an Islamophobe.

    , but your obsession with Israel, and the way you bring it and Jews into every damn thread on this site is close enough for jazz.

    Mentioning Israel is odd since you have explicitly rightly said that Israel (the apartheid state) and the Jews are different things and shouldnt be confused.

    Re my bringing them into “every damn thread” think youll find I do the same with Sikhs, Hindus , Christians, Muslims, white supremacists or whoever else it is bashing Muslims . Its nothing personal dear its my modus operandi. :)

    And given the number of professional Jewish obsessives about Muslims from Mel Phillips to Richard Desmond to Baet Yor to David Toube to Daniel Pipes to Debbie Schussel to Pamella Geller to David Horowitz etc etc (there are many more) these comments are pretty comical

    Should you be banned? Hell no. You are an example of what an unhealthy interest in something that one has no power over what-so-ever can lead to.

    An uncharitable view of this comment would be “you have no right to speak of these things” . Rather snobbish though Im sure not racist.

  48. Rumbold — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:16 pm  

    Munir:

    You would be advised to re-read Jai’s comments on other threads, and think about Islam more deeply.

    Referring to Richard Desmond’s Jewishness is wrong, unless you can prove that it is Jewishness that drives the Express’ editorial stance. It is not the same at all as pointing out that the majority of forced marriage victims are of Pakistani/Bangladeshi origin, because it that case we know there is a cultural reason.

  49. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:19 pm  

    Raymond Terrific

    Why is this Munir idiot allowed to keep posting?

    Hey how can I , “Munir Idiot” compare with you “Raymond Terrific”?

    I think theyve got some funny idea about “freedom of speech” and letting people say what they like as long as they arent physically threating others.

    Dont these dhimmis realise it is using our freedom of speech the Islamists will take over and make our daughters wear burkhas and stay at home cooking chappatis?

    Thank God for people like you Ray.

  50. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:29 pm  

    Rumbold

    You would be advised to re-read Jai’s comments on other threads, and think about Islam more deeply.

    hahah – yes Im planning to start Islam classes with Sheikh Jai.

    Referring to Richard Desmond’s Jewishness is wrong,

    No it isnt because he refers to peoples Muslimness, immigrantness, blackness and ethnicness when it has nothing to do with anything. Stop defending and crying crocodile tears for this publisher of despicable evil racism.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/8954/Ethnic+baby+boom+'crisis

  51. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:47 pm  

    “Great. You explicitly stated there were anti-semitic blogs which have more Muslim readers (in the UK) than the Islamophobic Daily Express which has a circulation of 700,000+. So name them”

    No I didn’t. I said there were a lot of antisemitic blogs out there and a lot of Muslims to whom they are available.

    “Should you be banned? Hell no. You are an example of what an unhealthy interest in something that one has no power over what-so-ever can lead to.”

    Neither snobbish nor racist. You are obsessed with Israel and Jews, but it isn’t what you are obsessed with, but how obsessed you are that bothers me.

    Were I the parent, friend, spouse, sibling etc., of someone who obsessed over anything that they had no power to change in the way that you do, I would be deeply concerned, and seeking help and advice.

    Apart from eating one up, it makes one boring and humourless.

  52. jookymundo — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:50 pm  

    Munir,

    I agree with everything you’ve said.

    Also I don’t see why everyone is defending Richard Desmond, I can understand why the Jews are, but that is to be expected of them.

  53. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 8:55 pm  

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/8954/Ethnic+baby+boom+‘crisis’

    Did you actually read the article to which you provided the link?

    The headline was, as headlines often are, misleading. The article did not appear racist to me, and mentioned virtually every immigrant group resident in Sheffield today.

    I also noticed that half the comments had been removed as being racially offensive, Something that doesn’t often happen on CiF.

  54. jookymundo — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:00 pm  

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/8954/Ethnic+baby+boom+‘crisis’

    LOL look at the photo two Women in a Hijab!

    Hmmm, I wonder why?

  55. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:01 pm  

    jookymundo (interesting name)

    “Also I don’t see why everyone is defending Richard Desmond, I can understand why the Jews are, but that is to be expected of them.”

    Well thats unfair. I dont think anyone on here is explicitly defending him. The fact he is Jewish and the descendant of immigrants escaping persecution makes his papers vile racism bigotry and hatred towards immigrants etc all the more appalling and depressing.

    Youd expect given their history of being a persecuted minority Jewish people to be at the forfront of fighting Islamophobia – sadly they are at the forefront of pushing Muslim-hatred.

    Now take ur tongue out of ur cheek :)

  56. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:03 pm  

    “Also I don’t see why everyone is defending Richard Desmond, I can understand why the Jews are, but that is to be expected of them.”

    Nobody has defended Richard Desmond. I defended the charity of which he is currently Chairman which has been going since before he, and no doubt you, were born, and which will, I hope, be doing good work long after his tenure.

    May I assume that you are a Muslim? I can imagine the reaction from you and your hero, Munir, if I said “I can understand why the Muslims are, but that is only to be expected of them”.

  57. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:04 pm  

    Munir – Fair play to you :)

  58. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:19 pm  

    jookymundo I withdraw my comment – Chairwoman DID defend the Express. She defended its racist “ethnic baby boom crisis” story as if ethnic minorities have babies is a crisis (well they aint really British are they)

    chairwoman

    The headline was, as headlines often are, misleading.

    No -it was grotesquely inflammatory

    The article did not appear racist to me, and mentioned virtually every immigrant group resident in Sheffield today.

    So what about the picture of the two woman in niqab (worn by a tiny minority) next to the phrase ETHNIC BABY BOOM ‘CRISIS’-

    I also noticed that half the comments had been removed as being racially offensive,

    Given the ones that remained (railing against Muslims)
    God alone knows what they said.

    This is the third comment
    “So, spaniel_lover, you “advocate the compulsorary sterilization of women from ethnic ‘minorities’ after their second child.”

    And what exactly is the difference between you and a Nazi? You can’t play the “I’m not a racist, it’s just those pesky PC liberals calling me a Nazi when all I want is white superiority” card this time.

    I’m even more shocked with the Express, for not removing this comment which is blatantly in breach of its house rules despite having been alerted to this several days ago. ”

    Something that doesn’t often happen on CiF.

    Perhaps because criticising Israel isnt racist as much as you seek to potray it as

    chairwoman

    May I assume that you are a Muslim? I can imagine the reaction from you and your hero, Munir, if I said “I can understand why the Muslims are, but that is only to be expected of them”.

    Given I responded to this comment by saying
    #55 “Well thats unfair. I dont think anyone on here is explicitly defending him. ”
    I can only assume you missed it.

    And compare to the stuff written about Muslims that is light light stuff indeed.

  59. jookymundo — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:27 pm  

    I just meant that Jews seem to defend other Jewish people even when they seem to be in the wrong.

  60. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:28 pm  

    But Spaniel Lover’s comment had been removed, and the comment that you pounced upon was highly critical of it.

    It is not criticism of the Israeli Government that I take issue with, it is when criticism of Israel takes a form that holds all Jews responsible and expects us to apologise for it, you know, in the same way that Muslims are expected to apologise.

    And I had already apologised to you at #67, but I assume you hadn’t noticed.

  61. chairwoman — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:31 pm  

    “I just meant that Jews seem to defend other Jewish people even when they seem to be in the wrong.”

    All minority groups get sucked into that one to some extent.

  62. munir — on 24th July, 2009 at 9:59 pm  

    chairwoman
    And I had already apologised to you at #67, but I assume you hadn’t noticed.

    sorry I hadnt – thank you :)

  63. Mr. Feathers — on 24th July, 2009 at 10:19 pm  

    Nothing from the trolls, then?

    Perhaps Jennifer Smith, Colin Brown etc have all got jobs now, and professional concerns keep them away from blogging… no, doesn’t sound very plausible to me either. I diagnose embarassment.

    Hopefully the likes of Chris Mounsey will stfu for similar reasons given how their party fared.

  64. Mr. Feathers — on 24th July, 2009 at 10:19 pm  

    I would have voted for UKIP. I’m glad a Conservative won if they couldn’t though.

  65. Shatterface — on 24th July, 2009 at 11:11 pm  

    I didn’t know Desmond was Jewish but now munir mentions it, it’s all coming together.

    Where do the Lizard People come in though?

  66. billericaydicky — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:25 am  

    To get back to what the article is actually about the BNP are not very well organised in Norfolk and would have been well advised to to have run a candidate. The guy they ran is supposed to be a clergyman but in fact it seems he is self ordained.

    Hope Not Hate made a great play of this and did a mass leaflet of the constituency as well as getting stories in the local papers and other other local media.

    Places like Norwich are very locally focused and Islam isn’t a big issue there. Whatever vote they had almost certainly went to the Tories and their campaign was a shambles.

    The places to be concerned about are Stoke, Lancashire and increasingly Barking and Dagenham where there is a purge going on in the Labour Party instigated by Margaret Hodge to get rid of long standing Cllrs and replace them with her stooges.

    Labour will go into the elections next year with a very divided party. Barking was always a problem with Hodge being widely disliked and seen as an Islington millionairess who hardly visited the constituency.

  67. inders — on 25th July, 2009 at 8:23 am  

    Desmond’s Jewish roots are most disturbing. This introduces a new Afro-Caribbean barber angle to the conspiracy that previously I did not believe possible.

  68. Rumbold — on 25th July, 2009 at 9:58 am  

    Munir:

    Neither Chairwoman nor I were defending Richard Desmond. We both dislike him. All we were doing was pointing out that his Jewishness was irrelevent. Just as we would if (say) A Muslim was caught for shoplifting- his religion would be irrelevent.

  69. Jai — on 25th July, 2009 at 10:07 am  

    Rumbold,

    You would be advised to re-read Jai’s comments on other threads, and think about Islam more deeply.

    Munir is a textbook example of what can eventually happen to a person’s mental state in extreme cases when they exploit religion (particularly when placing an overemphasis on “academic theological knowledge” and an ostentatious adherence to some of the rudimentary ritualistic aspects, whilst conveniently ignoring any religious injunctions to behave with respect, empathy and basic decency towards others) as a source of egotism and an attempt to hide & compensate for their own fundamental lack of any redeeming character traits, resulting in the development and manifestation of clearly-identifiable psychiatric illness.

    I expect severe sexual frustration probably doesn’t help matters either, particularly if the person is concerned is unmarried and lives in a relatively liberal & permissive society but in their own case both premarital relationships and masturbation are religiously prohibited.

  70. chairwoman — on 25th July, 2009 at 10:19 am  

    Jai – Spot on!

  71. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 11:39 am  

    Shatterface

    I didn’t know Desmond was Jewish but now munir mentions it, it’s all coming together.

    Where do the Lizard People come in though?

    Having covered up Diana’s death, they are working with the EU, gypsies, the Moozlims and East European immigrants to turn Britain into Eurabia -a Sharia State – by 2025 – you can read this all in Desmonds paper

  72. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 11:49 am  

    Rumbold

    Neither Chairwoman nor I were defending Richard Desmond.

    Yes you are

    We both dislike him. All we were doing was pointing out that his Jewishness was irrelevent

    It is totally relevant for a number of factors -it motivates his extreme hatred of Muslims, his indulgence by sections of the Jewish comunity shows they are happy to accept rabid Muslim haters and tells Muslims alot, he himself is of immigrant stock, he has no compulsion in mentioning the religious identities of Muslims even when it isnt relevant

    Seriously if a BNP racist from an ethnic minority was sounding off you are seriously stating you wouldnt bring up him being from a minority. The Express is a
    clearly repulsively racist paper – so focussing on the fact its editor is himself from a minority (albeit a privelged one not discriminated against) is entirely correct.

    You seem to be saying he should be let off – because he is Jewish. Thats pretty anti-semitic and seems to be the “racism of low expectations”

  73. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 12:00 pm  

    Jai your indulging in ad hominen diminishes you further-unable to deal with the argument you attack the man- Your obsession with my person, my background, age, marital status etc is in a way flattering but somewhat disturbing. This along with your obession with Aurangzeb (ra) – a great saint loved by Punjabi Muslims who passed away hundreds of years ago does suggest you need to see a shrink

    Munir is a textbook example of what can eventually happen to a person’s mental state in extreme cases when they exploit religion (particularly when placing an overemphasis on “academic theological knowledge” and an ostentatious adherence to some of the rudimentary ritualistic aspects, whilst conveniently ignoring any religious injunctions to behave with respect, empathy and basic decency towards others) as a source of egotism and an attempt to hide & compensate for their own fundamental lack of any redeeming character traits, resulting in the development and manifestation of clearly-identifiable psychiatric illness.

    Like some of the Sikh Gurus you mean?

  74. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 12:18 pm  

    inders

    Desmond’s Jewish roots are most disturbing. This introduces a new Afro-Caribbean barber angle to the conspiracy that previously I did not believe possible.

    hahaha – good grief that was a rubbish programme
    perhaps there is something about the Desmond name that just produces quality quality quality

  75. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 12:31 pm  

    billeracky dicky

    Places like Norwich are very locally focused and Islam isn’t a big issue there.

    fvck off Muslim hater

  76. Jai — on 25th July, 2009 at 12:56 pm  

    Munir,

    Jai your indulging in ad hominen diminishes you further-unable to deal with the argument you attack the man- Your obsession with my person, my background, age, marital status etc is in a way flattering but somewhat disturbing. This along with your obession with Aurangzeb (ra) – a great saint loved by Punjabi Muslims who passed away hundreds of years ago does suggest you need to see a shrink

    Munir is a textbook example of what can eventually happen to a person’s mental state in extreme cases when they exploit religion (particularly when placing an overemphasis on “academic theological knowledge” and an ostentatious adherence to some of the rudimentary ritualistic aspects, whilst conveniently ignoring any religious injunctions to behave with respect, empathy and basic decency towards others) as a source of egotism and an attempt to hide & compensate for their own fundamental lack of any redeeming character traits, resulting in the development and manifestation of clearly-identifiable psychiatric illness.

    Like some of the Sikh Gurus you mean

    Thanks for just proving my point perfectly. I’m sure all that made a lot of sense in your own little psychological bubble, but to the rest of the world that actually exists outside your head…..Not so much.

    Here’s a suggestion: Why don’t you print out everything you’ve written on PP during the course of – say – the last 2 months, and show it to your parents ?

    Make sure they particularly read the following:

    - Your continuous use of profanities (even in comments where you’re simultaneously quoting sacred Islamic religious texts), often to the point of extremely explicit gutter terminology,
    - Your continuous “poison pen letter”-style personal attacks across the internet against random commenters who are actually complete strangers to you,
    - Your continuous violation of the Islamic injunction to refrain from lying and to treat people with courtesy, kindness and respect,
    - Your continuous usage of your “adversary’s” alleged behaviour as a guideline (in fact, a convenient excuse) for your own disgusting behaviour towards them, irrespective of the actual Islamic teachings on appropriate conduct in such situations and frequently irrrespective of the fact that the perceived “insult” only exists inside your own head.
    - Your verbal abuse, bullying and harassment across the internet of anonymous women like Sofia, who you don’t even know and have never met,
    - Your continuous belittling and harassment of anonymous women like Chairwoman who is actually in her 60s,
    - Your persistent labelling of Jewish people as being “racist” by default, along with persistently and obsessively finding the flimsiest pretexts to insult Judaism and Jews in general when they have absolutely nothing to do with the main discussion,
    - Your claims about a widespread “Jewish conspiracy”,
    - Your remarks to Ravi about Hindus such as “why don’t you wear a red dot and burn yourself to death”,
    - Your subsequent remark that you would use “anti-Christian” insults against him next time,
    - Your constant references to “Hindu India” despite the fact that the country has one of the world’s 3 largest Muslim populations,
    - Your comment stating that you “feel no affinity towards Asians and actually don’t give a shit about them”,
    - Your remark that Sikh and Hindu policemen in Britain would “probably rape Muslim women if they were approached by them”,
    - Your comment to Amrit (another woman who is effectively an invisible stranger to you) where you called her parents “genocidal freaks”,
    - Your suspicious and extremely incriminating silence in response to my ridiculously easy questions about the history of Sufism in South Asia,
    - Your complete silence in response to my questions about your grasp (or lack of) high-level Urdu, Farsi, Punjabi and Sindhi along with your knowledge (or lack of) extremely famous Muslim Sufis and/or poets from both South Asian and Persian history,
    - And pretty much everything you have ever said while claiming to speak for Muslims and act in the name of Islam. All of the matters listed above obviously fall into this category as well.

    If you are absolutely convinced that all of your actions have been morally correct and justified, and that God fully supports your actions and your behaviour towards other people in the situations listed above, then you should have no problem making your parents aware of your activities online. After all, your actions have been conducted in the name of Islam and for the benefit of Muslims everywhere, and I’m sure you’d agree that your parents have the full right to be aware of exactly what their son has been doing in this matter.

    We don’t want you to be the online equivalent of Shahzad Tanweer now, do we, since his unfortunate parents were completely in the dark about exactly what their son was doing in the name of Islam and “the Ummah” behind their backs.

    It’s the weekend. People usually have a bit more free time. If you have the courage of your convictions, show your parents exactly what you have been writing online. If you really believe that you are right, both in terms of your beliefs and your behaviour towards other people, then presumably you should have nothing to be afraid of.

    Do it, if you really have the guts. Let’s see how much of a man you really are.

    I bet you don’t, and that you respond with yet more excuses, deflections and “counter-accusations” to avoid doing it.

  77. Dalbir — on 25th July, 2009 at 2:27 pm  

    Lets be frank. The people most likely to vote for the BNP are Northerners. Probably from a long line of coal miners?

  78. Edna Welthorpe — on 25th July, 2009 at 3:47 pm  

    One despairs of the BNP – failing to cover up those people with shaven heads and – ridiculously – running a bogus clergyman as a candidate.

    Anyway, pop over to the BNP site: they are putting a brave face on a vote of fewer than a thousand; a jolly good effort from a standing start of zero and no existing organisation at all, or so they say.

    You know, it is more than a bit rich for people of Pakistani origin to make a fuss about racism in Britain; successive Pakistani governments have opposed all proposals to move more than token handfuls of the poor Biharis from Bangladesh to Pakistan on the grounds that the Scindis would turn screaming mad if thousands of Biharis were suddenly dumped on them.

    Talking of sudden mass immigration, the AMERICAN RENAISSANCE site has an interesting discussion on the resettlement of the Nepalese-speaking expellees from Bhutan in Canada and the U.S.A.

    These tragic people need to be taught how to use flush toilets and electric ovens, just like the Hmong and the Somali Bantu before them. The Somali Bantu are the decendents of the Bantu slaves of the Somalis.

  79. Edna Welthorpe — on 25th July, 2009 at 4:06 pm  

    Dalbir needs to go back to Geography class. The BNP vote is usually – not always but usually – stronger in the [former] mill-towns, NOT in mining areas. Barnsley seems to be an exception, with a 17% BNP vote.

    THE BACKGROUND:
    In the last two decades of the cotton mills of Lancashire and the woollen mills of Yorkshire, those who owned the mills were ecstatic to enjoy the very real benefit of an influx of undemanding and tractable labour [with no marked inclination to unionised militancy] willing to work overtime, nights and weekends.

    Of course, the mills closed anyway; the influx from the Subcontinent kept the mills going for perhaps an extra twenty or thirty years.

    A Tory rank-and-filer cornered Duncan Sandys sometime during the Tory years of 1951 to 1964 and demanded to know what the hell the Conservative government was doing, permitting the influx of so many obvious unassimilable aliens and was rewarded by an appropriate response, delivered with fitting patrician contempt and disdain:

    “Well, there’s a labour shortage, isn’t there?”

    Precisely! In the Tory scale of values the short-term interest of the capitalist class, those reliable financial supporters of the Conservative Party, was of FAR more importance than the long-term interests of the ordinary British people.

    Not just Tories thought or think this way either. Mandelson has let it be known that jobless British workers ought to consider accepting jobs in, say, Poland.

  80. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:18 pm  

    Jai- Part 1

    Thanks for just proving my point perfectly. I’m sure all that made a lot of sense in your own little psychological bubble, but to the rest of the world that actually exists outside your head…..Not so much.

    You mean like the Gurdwara inspired bubble you exist in which tells you Aurangzeb (ra) a man revered by Punjabi and other South Asian (and non Asian) Muslims is the equivalent of Hitler- simple because your own dubious religious writings tell you so?

    Here’s a suggestion: Why don’t you print out everything you’ve written on PP during the course of – say – the last 2 months, and show it to your parents ?

    Heres a suggestion – why don’t you but out of peoples private lives and freakish obsession in finding out their personal details?

    Jai what I find interesting about what follows is the paradox about PP it reveals, or to be fair specifically about you, since you are the foremost exponent of it. That is to say promoting itself as “the progressive generation” and emphasising being progressive while at the same time indulging in deeply hide-bound reactionary non–progressive actions. I mean for God sake suggesting someone go and get their parents approval for what they write? Maybe we Asians are just too religious to be progressive? (viz Mehdi Hasan)

    This carries through in your exceptions to my critical comments to posters who happen to be female –where you adopt a deeply patriarchal view rather than believing that women can actually defend themselves. You are like that misogynist Douglas Clark who believes all Muslim/Asian men are overbearing bullies and Muslim/Asian women cowering wrecks unable to speak for themselves. Good grief even a BNPer like Edna Welthorpe had a more nuanced view than this. You claim to believe women and men are equal (which I also do; though actually I think women are slightly better) in which case they should be treated the same not as some weak ignoramuses incapable of defending themselves as you treat them.

    Another prong of your argument is that I am or have stated I am a pious Muslim and have numerous times breached this. This is a false argument because I never ever claimed to be a good Muslim – rather I am a bad one and certainly nowhere near as good a Muslim as people like Imran Khan, Anobody ( a person whose name reveals their piety) etc who occasionally frequent these pages. But I do know more about Islam than you and others at PP (this is simply a fact) and I don’t suffer fools gladly. The irony of you vetting the piety of Muslim posters about Islam when we have numerous non-Muslim posters including you telling us what Islam is probably is lost on you.

  81. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:24 pm  

    Jai Part 2
    With the greatest respect to PP I don’t a really religious Muslim who spend too much time on here. But I accept your advise. I should strive to act as a good Muslim rather than just act as non-Muslims do.
    Let’s address your points:

    - Your continuous use of profanities (even in comments where you’re simultaneously quoting sacred Islamic religious texts), often to the point of extremely explicit gutter terminology,

    Yeah sorry about that old chap- must be the company I keep.PP is rather filled with foul mouth ignorants and it’s sure to rub off. Good grief we even have Quranic exegetes (guffaw) like Banana Brain and Faisal/Sid using such language- who can forget Faisal/Sid holder of the banner of progressive Islam’s astonishingly scatological comments on here? .

    The only people I know in this society who don’t use profanity are religious Muslims- do you suggest I go and spend time with them and leave the wondrous meeting of the faiths that is PP?

    - Your continuous “poison pen letter”-style personal attacks across the internet against random commenters who are actually complete strangers to you,
    - Your continuous violation of the Islamic injunction to refrain from lying and to treat people with courtesy, kindness and respect,
    - Your continuous usage of your “adversary’s” alleged behaviour as a guideline (in fact, a convenient excuse) for your own disgusting behaviour towards them, irrespective of the actual Islamic teachings on appropriate conduct in such situations and frequently irrrespective of the fact that the perceived “insult” only exists inside your own head.

    No-the insults are clearly there- sadly your background makes you immune to the anti-Muslim diatribes I respond to which to you simply are normal fare. My coments are merely mirrors of theirs so if you find them objectionable then sanity and fairness would imply their anti-Muslim comments are likewise.
    This is the well worn path of Islamophobes- they will not hold back in saying and doing the worse things to Muslims yet when Muslims respond in kind will hypocritically mention to them what their religion teaches “Islam doesn’t allow this” so as to restrain them (though the Islamophobes don’t have such restraints). Appealing to the moral tradition of your adversary when you don’t have one yourself!

    - Your verbal abuse, bullying and harassment across the internet of anonymous women like Sofia, who you don’t even know and have never met,
    - Your continuous belittling and harassment of anonymous women like Chairwoman who is actually in her 60s,

    See point above about women and your patriarchal attitude. I’m not sure what Chairwoman’s age has to do with anything – her mind seems pretty sharp and I’m not inviting her to wrestle me

    - Your persistent labelling of Jewish people as being “racist” by default, along with persistently and obsessively finding the flimsiest pretexts to insult Judaism and Jews in general when they have absolutely nothing to do with the main discussion,

    I never said Jewish people were racist. I simply stated a fact that sections of the Jewish community is the main repository of Islamophobia in this country. This incidentally followed chairwoman’s comment that “your community (meaning Muslims) are the main anti-Semites”

    Where a Jewish commentator critises Muslims/Islam I criticise them back. Same with everyone else.

    And mentioning Judaism /Jews in general has everything to do with it because it is only by mentioning and using the same language for prejudices that people find unpalatable (against Jews/Judaism) that you can expose how wrong the prejudices they do find palatable are (against Islam/Muslims)

    - Your claims about a widespread “Jewish conspiracy”,

    Utter bull

    - Your remarks to Ravi about Hindus such as “why don’t you wear a red dot and burn yourself to death”,

    In response to his vicious attacks by him on Muslims/Islam

    With the Jewish example above this simple emphasises your anti-Muslim prejudice Jai- you totally ignore what was said against Muslims and instead look at the response. Sadly in your lyrical spiritual advice to others you are unable to look into your own heart and examine your prejudices

  82. Edna Welthorpe — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:33 pm  

    Munir -

    You need your own blogsite like David Duke and similar monomaniacal nutters!

    Nowt wrong with having crank opinions and spewing [nice word, innit?] them 24-7 but it IS TOO MUCH to hijack someone else’s website with unending and never-to-be-concluded I-said-you-said-I-said rants which are quite impossible to follow AND have a full-time job at the same time!

  83. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:38 pm  

    Edna Welthorpe

    You know, it is more than a bit rich for people of Pakistani origin to make a fuss about racism in Britain; successive Pakistani governments have opposed all proposals to move more than token handfuls of the poor Biharis from Bangladesh to Pakistan on the grounds that the Scindis would turn screaming mad if thousands of Biharis were suddenly dumped on them.

    This is a bit like saying “its a bit rich for British people to complain about immigration when succesive British governments have allowed in many immigrants”

    It makes even less sense as British “Pakistanis” dont have a say what goes on in Pakistan (actually Pakistanis dont have a say what goes on in Pakistan)

  84. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:42 pm  

    Jai Part 4

    - Your suspicious and extremely incriminating silence in response to my ridiculously easy questions about the history of Sufism in South Asia,
    - Your complete silence in response to my questions about your grasp (or lack of) high-level Urdu, Farsi, Punjabi and Sindhi along with your knowledge (or lack of) extremely famous Muslim Sufis and/or poets from both South Asian and Persian history,

    Oh fvck off Jai .Why is this “suspicious” Your post just remained me how much I love Islam and its internationalism and dislike Hinduism and Sikhism for there petty minded parochialism. Given how much your religion is focuses on being Punjabi I doubt you can even begin to comprehend this.

    Just because YOUR religion is intimately tied to your families cultural background/milieu doesn’t mean mine is. The questions you asked were specialist ones which

    I doubt any but a few fellow British Muslims could answer. Rest assured most South Asian Muslims in the UK know very little about Islam from there – this is largely because:

    1) It is irrelevant in Islam where a person comes from or from whom the person they take their knowledge from is from

    2) Most South Asian Muslims are not educated- many of the parents know very little about Islam – this leads often to the younger generation when they learn Islam (which doesn’t com from their parents) to throw the baby out with the bathwater

    3) The focus in terms of personages in Islam is on the lives of the Prophets above all others – not on saints

    4) There is not a Muslim on earth who in religious matters turns or refers to or learns from those just of their ethnic group

    5) Muslims are interested in the truth not the ethnic origin of the person saying it. This is why Asian Muslims believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed an Indian was a lying imposter and thet the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), an Arab was God’s last prophet. Its why Persian Muslims believe the same about BahaiUllah- a Persian that he was an imposter and that the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), an Arab was God’s last prophet. Asian Muslims follow the school of Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) – A Persian from Iraq. Arab Muslims cling to the 6 sahih sittah books of hadith – 5 of them written by non-Arabs.

    Indeed Persians in Sunni Islam have made an enormous contribution- Ghazali, Abu Hanifa etc etc etc, Yet the Shia Persians do not follow any of them – they instead follow 12 Imams – all of them Arab,

    Can someone like you, stuck in your racist ethno-centric ghetto religion even begin to fathom this?

    6) I know Rumi, Hafiz and Sadi very well thank you

    7) The languages you mentioned are important. But the language par excellence of Islam is Arabic.

    8) In any case talks about some of the great Muslims of the Indian subcontinent happen quite frequently – there was a talk on a while ago about Shah WaliyAllah ad-Dehlvi (ra) one of the greatest scholars of the ummah of the last few centuries , interest in whose work was spurred by Sheikh Muhammed Al Ghazali . An Egyptian. Likewise there was a talk about Shah Jalal (ra) the saint par excellence who brought Islam to Bangladesh . A Yemeni. Given there are 150 million Muslims in Bangladesh one can only marvel at how enormous this mans reward is with Allah since he gets the reward for each of their good actions without diminishing their reward in the least. http://www.radicalmiddleway.co.uk/videos.php?t=1&art=132&a_id=31

    Please pray that further talks can take place about Aurangzeb (ra) and other great South Asian Muslims.

    You are clearly a fwit unable to get out of the South Asian mentality or understand your “Sikh understanding of Islam” isn’t the same as the Muslim one. The way you seek to pigeon hole people based on their ethnic origin is BNP like and makes me want to vomit.

    We don’t want you to be the online equivalent of Shahzad Tanweer now, do we, since his unfortunate parents were completely in the dark about exactly what their son was doing in the name of Islam and “the Ummah” behind their backs.

    The fact that your immediate knee jerk reaction is to mention a terrorist says it all about your perception and attitude to Muslims . As does your putting “the ummah” in quotation marks.

  85. Edna Welthorpe — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:44 pm  

    Does Dalbir have an aversion to that stereotypical figure, the barely-human Northern miner, he who habitually comes home drunk to his terraced house and feeds his already-cold supper to his whippet while his pitiable battered spouse and ill-nourished children cower in the corner.

    Vikrant once accused a contributor here of living on, or having formerly lived on, a council estate like that was the Mark of Cain!

    Stop this foul snobbery right now, you nose-in-the-air snobbish Public School trust fund fox-hunting green-wellington-and-Barbour-wearing Tory beasts, squandering the tax-payers’ money on moat cleaning and duck islands!

  86. Edna Welthorpe — on 25th July, 2009 at 5:54 pm  

    Munir – #80 – is wrong.

    Not a BNPer or even a fellow-traveller. My snobbery would never let me go further than the Monday Club. Not that I am a member of any party now nor have I been since my Labour Party membership lapsed in the early seventies.

    Oh, yes, and Munir was right and I was dead wrong about Shahid and Shaheeeed.

    But Munir MUST open his open blog; his contributions to the various threads on this site would already fill a slim volume the size of, say, a Reader’s Digest.

    And how about a Yemeni taking Islam to what is now Bangladesh?

    He taught them Islam but nowt else of Yemeni culture; he didn’t teach the Bengalis to chew qat or carry weaponry around or waddle along with a totally gormless expression, like his fellow-countrymen.

  87. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 6:51 pm  

    Edna Welthorpe

    He taught them Islam but nowt else of Yemeni culture; he didn’t teach the Bengalis to chew qat or carry weaponry around or waddle along with a totally gormless expression, like his fellow-countrymen.

    He was a man of the uptost piety so he almost certainly eschewed qat (if it was even around then). Bengali men wear the lunghi/izzar – this comes from Yemen. There are numerous other influences in language etc but Im not Bengali so I dont know.

    Yemeni men
    http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4512716-lg.jpg

    Bengali man
    http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1899/2271/1600/lungi%20style.1.jpg

    Its an interesting paradox- Bengali Muslims are seem as the furthest away culturally from the middle east – they dont use the Arabic script for example as Indo-Pak Muslims using Urdu do. But they are actually the most directly influenced by Arab culture than anyone else on the subcontinent (the other Muslims mainly being influenced and converted by Persians or Turks)

    Same with Malays and Indonesians who were brought Islam by the Yemenis

    There is a very interesting article here
    http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/A_0283.htm

    Theres also an interesting though clumsly written rejoiner to the Bengali nationalists and anti-Arab racists (such as Faisal and the Spitoon crowd) here

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/A-Bangladeshi-Bluestocking-by-Iftekhar-Sayeed-090223-9.html

    “I believe there is a verse in the Koran that enjoins women to cover themselves. I shan’t go into that here: here, we’re dealing with kultur, with highfalutin things and high flown words and ideas. Now, since this verse may be safely dated to the seventh century, we are equally safe in assuming that the practice of covering-up had not been widespread before. After all, it took a revelation to establish the practice. Hence, we conclude that the relevant verses were an innovation in Arab culture itself: a repudiation of Arab culture, which included especially the repudiation of female infanticide. The newsreader had no more ambition than to be pious according to her understanding of her holy book – not to be an Arab damsel.

    Perhaps what is to be truly deplored is not the Arab influence on Bengali – and Indian – culture, but the complete lack thereof. Over centuries, the Arab sirocco from the Hijaz was unable to blow away the practices of female infanticide and the caste system. Indeed, the former has progressed with modernity into female foeticide assisted by the scientific application of sound waves, a practice unknown in the Muslim world because of an Arab who measured his own culture against higher moral standards, and found it lacking.”

  88. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 6:54 pm  

    Edna

    Nowt wrong with having crank opinions and spewing [nice word, innit?] them 24-7 but it IS TOO MUCH to hijack someone else’s website with unending and never-to-be-concluded I-said-you-said-I-said rants which are quite impossible to follow AND have a full-time job at the same time!

    Edna it is the weekend here in blighty. I am aware that its not where you are in Saudi . Still nice to know youve acclimatised so

  89. Edna Welthorpe — on 25th July, 2009 at 7:30 pm  

    Munir is right about the lunghi, but it is worm is Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka and throughout Malaysia and Indonesia, too.

    ON YEMENIS
    It took a minute or an hour for the penny to drop but drop it did.

    Until Saddam invaded Yemen, almost all the sweatier sorts of jobs in KSA were done by Yemenis. They had a fearless if uncerebral readiness to tackle any task; if an air conditioner wasn’t working, probably all it needed was a straightened-out paperclip to bridge the electrical gap!

    A full-sized fridge could be strapped on the back of a single Yemeni, who would then trudge straight up five flights of stairs – in Chinese flipflop sandals – without pausing once [these days the same fridge would be hauled upstairs by four Bangladeshis or Hindis, with the guarantee that they’d dent all the corners of the said fridge, drop it at least once and probably break all the lights on the stairs while about it.

    Then the Yemenis suddenly disappeared, as if by magic. The Yemeni government had failed to sign on the dotted line Riyadh drew and in consequence hundreds of thousands of Yemenis, some of whome were Saudi-born, were peremptorily expelled. Kill the rooster to frighten the monkey!

    Those formerly-Yemeni jobs are now done by Bangladeshis and Hindis.

  90. munir — on 25th July, 2009 at 7:39 pm  

    Edna thanks for remind us of one of the greatest of the many crimes of the Al Saud dynasty

  91. Dalbir — on 25th July, 2009 at 8:43 pm  

    Edna

    Dalbir needs to go back to Geography class. The BNP vote is usually – not always but usually – stronger in the [former] mill-towns, NOT in mining areas. Barnsley seems to be an exception, with a 17% BNP vote.

    Does Dalbir have an aversion to that stereotypical figure, the barely-human Northern miner, he who habitually comes home drunk to his terraced house and feeds his already-cold supper to his whippet while his pitiable battered spouse and ill-nourished children cower in the corner.
    ————————————————

    Fucking cavemen, the lot of them. And racist to boot…what a winning combo!

    They should build a new Hadrian’s wall type thing separating them from us. Then they can create their super race of ale drinking, whippet loving whitey over there. Twats.

    lol

  92. Wido — on 26th July, 2009 at 12:02 am  

    ‘Perhaps Jennifer Smith, Colin Brown etc have all got jobs now, and professional concerns keep them away from blogging… no, doesn’t sound very plausible to me either. I diagnose embarassment.’

    Indeed where are they? Why so quiet?

  93. Edna Welthorpe — on 26th July, 2009 at 4:33 am  

    Dalbir writes, “A new Hadrian’s Wal type thing separating them from us”

    This is not, please note, because those detestable ‘cavemen’ persist in sending the most vulnerable members of their community among us as suicide bombers, merely because they own whippets and racing pigeons, talk funny and sometimes vote the wrong way.

    Dalbir, fear the wrath of Jimmy Carter! In next to no time Jimmy, and bishops and Deep Thinkers to numerous list here, would be howling and yelling about the Apartheid Wall!

  94. Dalbir — on 26th July, 2009 at 1:38 pm  

    Edna writes: This is not, please note, because those detestable ‘cavemen’ persist in sending the most vulnerable members of their community among us as suicide bombers, merely because they own whippets and racing pigeons, talk funny and sometimes vote the wrong way.
    ——

    I thought they make a great pair myself. The Andy Caps and Johnny Qaeda. Let them sort out their differences behind the wall…..

    We can get some popcorn and watch from the other side! Yey!

  95. munir — on 26th July, 2009 at 1:47 pm  

    Edna Welthorpe

    This is not, please note, because those detestable ‘cavemen’ persist in sending the most vulnerable members of their community among us as suicide bombers, merely because they own whippets and racing pigeons, talk funny and sometimes vote the wrong way.

    That is actually a pretty promising take on the 7/7 -one that occurred to me at the time- a bunch of primitive backward insular Northern barbarians coming to cosmopolitan vibrant London to bring death and destruction

    plus ca change eh Edna?

    Northerners are clearly the source of all our problems

  96. damon — on 26th July, 2009 at 2:12 pm  

    Edna Welthorpe @ 78

    ”Talking of sudden mass immigration, the AMERICAN RENAISSANCE site has an interesting discussion on the resettlement of the Nepalese-speaking expellees from Bhutan in Canada and the U.S.A.”

    I did go and read that ”discussion” in that online magazine. And the very first comment is the idiotic: ”Straight to welfare. A burden to every White” …. and every other (stupid) comment that was made wasn’t much better.
    But this was my favourite:
    ”But seriously, who had ever even heard of Bhutan before this story?

    Which unknown geographical backwater will be the next major supplier of people to Canada?
    Tonga?, Upper Volta?…..time to get out that old school atlas.”

  97. douglas clark — on 26th July, 2009 at 2:39 pm  

    You Southerners should be careful what you wish for:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epk6qa585Bo

    :-)

  98. Dalbir — on 26th July, 2009 at 2:47 pm  

    Has anyone been on a night out ‘Up North’?

    It’s like being stuck in a zoo.

    Aye pet….

  99. munir — on 26th July, 2009 at 3:13 pm  

    Dalbir

    Has anyone been on a night out ‘Up North’?

    It’s like being stuck in a zoo.

    Aye pet….

    Its like going anywhere in the third world -the people are poorer but far friendlier than London.

  100. Dalbir — on 26th July, 2009 at 3:30 pm  

    Up North is the third world now. hahahaha!

    I always suspected…hhmmmm

  101. Jai — on 26th July, 2009 at 6:25 pm  

    6) I know Rumi, Hafiz and Sadi very well thank you

    In that case, Munir, presumably you will fully understand the following and will also be aware of who wrote it:

    بنی آدم اعضای یک پیکرند
    که در آفرينش ز یک گوهرند
    چو عضوى به درد آورد روزگار
    دگر عضوها را نماند قرار
    تو کز محنت دیگران بی غمی
    نشاید که نامت نهند آدمی

    Unless you are lying yet again, of course.

    The only people I know in this society who don’t use profanity are religious Muslims- do you suggest I go and spend time with them

    Absolutely. As much time with them as possible, in fact — if you’re genuinely serious about Islam, God and spirituality, and all that theological “knowledge” you allegedly possess isn’t purely an intellectual exercise on you part.

  102. Jai — on 26th July, 2009 at 6:30 pm  

    Well, I see that our Anjem Choudaryesque friend Munir has been as charming and sane as ever during my absence, both on this thread and on the “Jagdeesh Singh” thread…..

    I’m going to briefly respond further to Munir’s earlier post #73 (his self-serving, paranoid, guesswork & assumption-riddled hallucinatory rantings in #80, 81 and 84 above, along with the “answer” (such as it is) to my posts on the “Jagdeesh Singh” thread don’t deserve a response), and then I think PP’s editorial team needs to make a concrete decision on the viability of continuing any dialogue with Munir on PP full-stop and possibly also permanently terminating his ability to participate here, since there are obvious limitations to constructively engaging with individuals suffering from untreated psychiatric illnesses.

    Something else to consider is the fact that Munir is reinforcing nearly every piece of propaganda and negative stereotyping about Muslims that the BNP are aggressively trying to promote, and that he is therefore effectively doing their dirty work for them. By virtue of his own moral depravity, hypocrisy and viciousness, and his prolific near-daily demonstration of this on a globally-accessible blog such as PP (which, incidentally, is actively monitored by the BNP and their supporters, who are only too happy to exploit any suitable comments contained therein as convenient ammunition to further their own Islamophobic agenda) Munir is as much of a liability for the British Muslim population as his psychological doppelganger Anjem Choudary is.

    ***************************************************

    This along with your obession with Aurangzeb (ra) – a great saint loved by Punjabi Muslims

    Sure, we’re really going to take history lessons from “Professor” Munir, someone who isn’t Punjabi himself and has never been to Punjab, whose limited contact with Punjabi Muslims obviously consists of ignorant social misfits who are grossly unrepresentative of the vast majority of Punjabi Muslims both in the subcontinent and overseas, and who is unable to answer even the easiest questions about the history of Sufism in South Asia & Persia. Not to mention his total lack of credibility as a “student of Islamic history” who is paradoxically completely ignorant about the contents of Aurangzeb’s own memoirs and letters to his children at the end of his life, either in the original Farsi or with regards to the easily-available English translation of the full texts.

    Munir is a textbook example of what can eventually happen to a person’s mental state in extreme cases when they exploit religion (particularly when placing an overemphasis on “academic theological knowledge” and an ostentatious adherence to some of the rudimentary ritualistic aspects, whilst conveniently ignoring any religious injunctions to behave with respect, empathy and basic decency towards others) as a source of egotism and an attempt to hide & compensate for their own fundamental lack of any redeeming character traits, resulting in the development and manifestation of clearly-identifiable psychiatric illness.

    Like some of the Sikh Gurus you mean?

    The “retaliation” above is yet another example of Munir persistently violating major Islamic injunctions while simultaneously claiming to act in the name of Islam and for the benefit of Muslims (sound familiar ?), despite also having repeatedly claimed to be “conveying the position of orthodox Sunni Islam” — specifically the following non-negotiable, mandatory Islamic obligations:

    a) The Islamic injunction that one should never lie,
    b) The Islamic injunction that one should always behave with respect, courtesy and integrity towards others,
    and c) The Islamic injunction to never ridicule or gratuitously insult the religious founders & figures of other faiths under any circumstances when interacting with adherents of those faiths.

    So, that’s 3 major Islamic injunctions which Munir is deliberately and maliciously violating in one post alone, the latest in a very long list of countless previous examples where he has repeatedly done this. What’s next, Munir – Are you planning to visit a lapdancing club, get drunk on tequila shots, and eat a bacon sandwich tonight as well ?

  103. Jai — on 26th July, 2009 at 6:36 pm  

    Rumbold, Sunny, Leon, Chairwoman,

    Munir has a pathological problem with a lack of basic, intuitive empathy towards other people (especially non-Muslims and “the wrong type of Muslim”), which persistently manifests in the following:

    - Near-continuous “psychological projection”, to the level of psychopathology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection ),
    - Massive cognitive impairment, frequently to the point of psychosis,
    - Clinical paranoia,
    - A homicidal level of hatred towards “The Other” or anyone that ‘dares’ to contradict or criticise him,
    - A near-obsessive addiction to hurting other people to the maximum degree possible (mostly using greatly exaggerated or completely fabricated pretexts),
    - A mental & emotional state constantly veering from superciliousness to grievance-driven rage (or both),
    - Pathological lying,
    - Memory blackouts.

    Munir attempts to rationalise and explain this by shifting the blame externally to his targets, but we all know that (with the exception of sporadic genuinely-Islamophobic trolls) the problem is actually internal.

    It’s either something neurological (eg. a hyperstimulated amygdala) or psychological/behavioural, or both. It would obviously require a formal medical investigation to identify the root cause(s), but Munir is definitely exhibiting clear symptoms of clinical psychopathy.

    In fact, given his history of repeatedly switching between the usernames “Munir” and “Blah” (amongst others) whilst denying any knowledge or responsibility for this despite the fact that PP’s own IP-tracking systems have confirmed it, including incidents where he has actually posted “replies” to himself using the aforementioned alternate usernames, you can probably also add multiple personality disorder and/or schizophrenia to the mix if he’s genuinely experiencing memory blackouts or “hearing voices” during these “episodes”.

    To my knowledge, this renders Munir a viable candidate for action under the Mental Health Act 2007. I believe there have also recently been successful criminal prosecutions of bloggers/commenters for deliberate incitement of hatred via the internet, which makes PP’s possession of Munir’s IP details very handy indeed, irrespective of whether he’s been posting under the username “Munir” or his most frequent alias “Blah”.

    I expect there will be BNP-style protests about “freedom of speech” from him (and incidentally, exactly like Munir, the most extreme white supremacists & racists are also frequently obsessive anti-Semites and enthusiastic “Zionist” conspiracy theorists), but given the fact that Munir’s mentality, behaviour and modus operandi are actually identical to Nick Griffin and (particularly) L.J Barnes, not to mention their counterparts Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, and most of all Anjem Choudary, I don’t see why Munir should be treated any differently or indeed shown any mercy whatsoever.

  104. Edna Welthorpe — on 26th July, 2009 at 6:41 pm  

    Oh, DO buck up. Here’s something which will cheer you all up:

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_when_islam.html

    Dalrymple is a fine writer but not infallible. However, his observations on society and culture are usually sound.

  105. Edna Welthorpe — on 26th July, 2009 at 6:51 pm  

    Jai -

    If I may presume to speak on behalf of the Zionazis*, we are all in favour of Munir continuing to spew [lovely word!] his stuff on PP but he DOES need encouragement to start his own monomaniacal blog.

    It is a sound principle that FREE SPEECH ON THE INTERNET should not be curtailed for any reason.

    The English bloke who wrote the short story ‘Girls (Scream) Aloud’ may well be slightly unhinged but fiction is fiction. It’s still on the ‘net – as of the last time I looked – but I’ll deliberately NOT post a link.

    * Other contributors to the SOCIALIST UNITY site called me a zionist and a nazi on the same glorious day!

  106. Don — on 26th July, 2009 at 7:09 pm  

    Jai, chill mate.

    It’s just munir. He’s taking up way too much time, but that’s because we let him. Talk about the topic, disregard the derails. Yeah, I know, I’m as guilty as anyone. I’ve been known to respond.

    A lot of what he says is actualy quite reasonable, but he just can’t stop abusing people who disagree, and then abusing their particular faith. I think having him sectioned is perhaps going too far, but do we still have a disemvowelling option? Katy ran that so well.

  107. Jai — on 26th July, 2009 at 7:51 pm  

    Don,

    A lot of what he says is actualy quite reasonable, but he just can’t stop abusing people who disagree, and then abusing their particular faith.

    You and I both know that it’s a foregone conclusion that Munir will completely ignore your last two sentences above, seize upon the first one, and attempt to use it as an example to “vindicate” himself and/or retaliate against me.

    In any case, engaging with people who are genuinely mentally disturbed in this way is a pointless exercise (examples of previous PP commenters exhibiting near-identical behaviour were Colin Brown and the short-lived “Guessedworker”). The appropriate response should be formal diagnosis and the initiation of appropriate corrective treatment (if feasible) by a suitable medical team who knows (or can find out) who he is in real life, not people continuing to talk to such individuals on websites and thereby feeding their compulsions by giving them a ready-made online playground consisting of invisible, anonymous, dehumanised punchbags on whom to project their hatreds, assumptions & prejudices and vent their own psychiatric problems.

    The issue of prosecution is a separate (albeit overlapping) issue. Thanks to Munir’s extensive participation on PP over a course of many months, there is certainly a mountain of written evidence available if the relevant authorities wished to escalate matters and initiate formal proceedings against him.

    Both of the above are obviously contingent on the position of PP’s editorial team on the matter, but given the gravity of the issue and the obvious confidentiality involved as a result of this potentially involving both medical and/or legal escalation in the real world, it would obviously not be prudent for PP’s editorial team to divulge their stance here on the blog itself.

    In any case, if they want to ban Munir, for his own sake as much as the rest of PP’s readers’ and commenting audience’s sakes, as I said earlier I think the editorial team now needs to make a very serious decision about it.

  108. anobody — on 26th July, 2009 at 7:56 pm  

    Munir’s just guilty of acting like some of the people in here. He responds to how he is addressed. Most of his points are valid.

    Jai, I’m sure you’ve said previously how munir works positively against BNP types who post here. Now you are saying he is doing the work of the BNP. I don’t understand your obsession with Sufism and munir’s ethnicity. What will this prove? If anything…

    Where you are from does not matter. Munir’s post at 84 makes some excellent points. (I don’t know how he missed out Sheikh Imam al-Bukhari, compiler of many of the sahih hadeeth, who was an Uzbek). Islam is not an ethno centric religion.

  109. munir — on 26th July, 2009 at 11:27 pm  

    Jai you really have hit rock bottom

    Sorry to break it to you Jai but saying things against the Sikh Gurus isn’t against the law. Even the fruity language I have used was simply responding to how people addresses Muslims. Can I sue them?

    Your notion I be done for incitement to hatred is beyond laughable. Jai posts on PP have actually called for the genocide of Muslims in the UK! Perhaps we can get Douglas Clark for his Muslim man comment, dashenka for his her astonishing anti-Muslim rants, marvin for condemn the BBC for employing a Muslim , common humanist for using the racist term for Pakistani etc etc. Colin Brown made some shockingly racist comments about Asians, Jennifer Smith etc (yes folks forget Stormfront or the BNP site PP is the centre of race hate in the UK)

    Or maybe you could take me to a Sharia court :)

    I have been posting here since Feb 2009 and PP has never deigned to ban me or delete my oh so inciting posts- perhaps they have legal liability for this Jai?

    Perhaps I can point to your posts praising me as defence, or the fact you more than anyone have engaged in lengthy debates with me and thus share responsibility for “encouraging me” in my hideous crimes. Or your nasty obsession with finding out my personal details/racial background?

    Your using the analogy of Anjem Choudhury is stupid (when I have said anything remotely like he has?) – since even given his atrocious comments he has never been convicted of anything ! Likewise the other individuals mentioned

    It shows the same detachment from reality you displayed in your BNP questions where you suggested the US would start a nuclear war with Britain (entailing Armageddon) if the BNP were elected, or nobody would trade with Britain.

    Jai recommend you trawl some of the blogs- people call openly for the killing of Muslims in the UK and their being expelled- not a sausage. I have never called for violence against anyone.

    You also state that I am mentally ill/disturbed (perhaps I could sue you for this).

    If this is the case how could I be held accountable for any posts? Perhaps you could explain this?

    Your post is a childish and amateurish attempt to shut me up which has been seen as such by other posters. I have often been very rude and bolshie on here. But this is not against the law. Shame on you. I really thought better of you.

  110. bambaataa — on 26th July, 2009 at 11:52 pm  

    You also state that I am mentally ill/disturbed (perhaps I could sue you for this).

    That’s characteristically litigious of you “munir”.

    Will you be using Carter Ruck to represent you this time again?

  111. Jai — on 27th July, 2009 at 12:19 pm  

    You also state that I am mentally ill/disturbed (perhaps I could sue you for this).

    Go ahead, “Munir”. It would entail you having to come out of the closet and divulging your real name & identity to the public, with the associated scrutiny from the national media along with lawyers, doctors, and the police — and given the extensive history of your behaviour and assertions on this website, particularly in relation to Jews, Hindus and Sikhs, that is where things would get really interesting.

  112. Shamit — on 27th July, 2009 at 1:07 pm  

    heh…

    Munir wants to sue now and that too for offensive remarks or insinuating he might be a bit “cracked” up there. Wow – could there be a better example of delusion?

    Munir is very intelligent obviously. Yet his actions are nothing but malevolent manifestations of his deluded thinking. Now, when an intelligent person continues to act in a unwarranted malevolent manner while claiming a higher moral ground – you could either conclude a)these are deliberate and hence very offensive or b) he is crazy.

    Jail chose (b)- and could it be he was being too polite and generous?

    Saying that when Munir chooses to he is brilliant and one of the more articulate commentators – but those moments are very few and far between.

  113. douglas clark — on 28th July, 2009 at 12:37 am  

    Edna Welthorpe,

    That’s an interesting link you gave at 104. Dalrymple does seem to hit the nail on the head.

  114. cjcjcj — on 4th January, 2010 at 2:09 am  

    A lot of what he says is actualy quite reasonable – Well, reasonable doesn’t mean that is the only one that is right. Munir should learn to speak up his opinion without abusing others. Also try to understand and respecting other opinions as well as he want others to respects his.

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