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  • The BNP on the internet


    by Rumbold
    14th July, 2009 at 8:19 pm    

    It is fair to say that we on Pickled Politics are not novices when it comes to BNP internet warriors. Although we won’t link to them, the fascist forum Stormfront has been discussing Pickled Politics/eGov’s questions and Lee John Barnes’ responses on behalf of the BNP. Few support his decision to respond, and many took to calling him “Jew Boy”.

    Thanks to Edmund Standing of Harry’s Place, we now have an even more comprehensive idea of how BNP members conduct themselves on the internet, after his report for the Centre for Social Cohesion was published. I haven’t read through the whole piece yet, but below is the executive summary. Though it contains no shocking revelations, the report, like our ’85 Questions’, is part of the process by which the BNP is exposed for what it really is. The BNP has gained greatly from the main parties and other noted commentators merely yelling ‘racist’ at them, telling everyone not to vote for them, then running away. It makes the BNP’s arguments look powerful and allows them to adopt a faux-victim mentality. We, Harry’s Place, Richard Bartholomew, The Spittoon and others want to keep them squirming under the spotlight.

    The report:

    Executive Summary

    This investigation into the online activities of BNP members and activists reveals that the racial ideology of the BNP has not changed from the early days in which the founder John Tyndall was party leader, when open expressions of Nazism were tolerated in the party.

    The report has found that a significant number of BNP members and online grass-roots activists displayed significant ideological affinity with key tenets of the neo-Nazi ideology, including: support for violence; antisemitism and an admiration of the Third Reich; extreme racist views; and Holocaust denial.

    Support for violence:

    •Lee Barnes – leading member and head of the BNP legal team – supports the National Front on his blog. He refers to the group as a valid ‘nationalist’ organization and suggests that they operate as a street force for the BNP.
    •Barnes advocates the downfall of western civilization: ‘The West deserves all it gets. The faster the fools that run the West destroy the West the better.’
    •The BNP supporting blog Britain Awake praises Combat 18 and supports violent attacks on Muslim women. Britain Awake is hosted by a self-described member of the BNP who claims to have attended the party’s exclusive Red, White and Blue festival.

    Antisemitism and an admiration of the Third Reich:

    •The official BNP YouTube account and the official YouTube accounts of the Thurrock and Burnley BNP branches show close links with neo-Nazi and antisemitic activists and organizations, as do the users who have been accepted as ‘friends’ of these channels.
    •Blogs run by members and self-professed supporters of the BNP continue to host, and offer links to, material that is pro-Nazi, racist, antisemitic, and homophobic.
    •A member of the Covert Tactics blog, strongly linked with the BNP, refers to Jews as ‘greedy subhuman scum’. One member, Tommy Williams, is a neo-Nazi whose name appeared on the leaked list of BNP members. The blog expresses admiration for Hitler and has on a number of occasions denied or trivialised the Holocaust.

    Extreme racist views:

    •So-called patriotic concerns of the BNP mask an underlying fear of racial ‘dissolution’ and a commitment to ’soft’ ethnic cleansing in the form of policies attempting to coerce non-white Britons into leaving the UK.
    •Material found on BNP supporting YouTube accounts, blogs, and internet forums contravenes the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.

    Holocaust denial:

    The BNP website promotes books by neo-Nazi publishing houses which are dedicated to rehabilitating Nazism and denying the Holocaust.


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    Filed in: The BNP






    40 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. pickles

      New blog post: The BNP on the internet http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5151


    2. Leon Green

      RT @pickledpolitics: New blog post: The BNP on the internet http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5151


    3. CathElliott

      RT @pickledpolitics: New blog post: The BNP on the internet http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5151


    4. Richard Breckell

      RT @CathElliott RT @pickledpolitics: New blog post: The BNP on the internet http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5151 #stopthebnp


    5. Michael Bater

      RT @CathElliott: RT @pickledpolitics: New blog post: The BNP on the internet http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5151


    6. Philippa Willitts

      RT @CathElliott: RT @pickledpolitics: New blog post: The BNP on the internet http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5151


    7. Emrys Schoemaker

      RT @pickledpolitics New blog post: The BNP on the internet http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/5151


    8. The Trump Network

      Pickled Politics » The BNP on the internet http://bit.ly/im0Fu


    9. Pickled Politics » Follow up to Standing report

      [...] report by Rumbold on 28th July, 2009 at 12:58 pm     Edmund Standing, who recently published a report into the BNP’ activities on the internet, now shares some more of his thoughts on [...]


    10. Follow up to Standing report | Free Political Forum

      [...] Standing, who recently published a report into the BNP’ activities on the internet, now shares some more of his thoughts on [...]




    1. Don — on 14th July, 2009 at 8:27 pm  

      So I take it we are not banning them?

      Good. Got my hols coming, I expect this will still be running.

    2. Carl — on 14th July, 2009 at 8:38 pm  

      Well I think that this is very interesting, and of course it reveals the party for who they really are. So now is time to ask ourselves the question; is a political party the sum of its membership views, or of those views set in stone as policy? Think first of your own political party, is it the sum of its membership views or is what is written down final!

      I remember some far-leftist writers being hounded by the SWP for daring to say that in spite of all the racism that the BNP have spouted, its now time to accept there has been a post-Tyndall modification of the party. That way we can truly work on a means of undoing the policies they want us to hear about.

      And with this I would partly agree, although one cannot sit on the evidence that Griffin has publicly acknowledged that his party will get nowhere if they tell the truth (if anyone has seen the video, which can be found on YouTube, of Griffin speaking to the Friends of America alongside David Duke where he announces this).

      So these tough questions come next, and in light of the good work above, my question would be; do we tackle individual members’ peculiar politics online, or do we entertain the BNP’s family image in order to combat them at the political level? Or is there a third way?

    3. munir — on 14th July, 2009 at 9:20 pm  

      “Thanks to Edmund Standing of Harry’s Place, we now have an even more comprehensive idea of how BNP members conduct themselves on the internet, after his report for the Centre for Social Cohesion was published. ”

      A writer on “left wing” (guffaw) blog Harrys Place writes for the hard right anti-Muslim Centre for Social Cohesion (sic) - you mean to say HP is linked with anti-Muslims groups ?

      Never!

    4. Don — on 14th July, 2009 at 9:39 pm  

      I don’t see how Standing could be reasonably characterised as either left wing or hard right, with or without guffaws. Specific issues with something he has said?

    5. 1mongrel — on 14th July, 2009 at 10:19 pm  

      Paranoia or what. In fact anyone who doesn’t gush with boundless enthusiasm at the prospect of unlimited immigration and the future multikulti heaven is automatically labelled BNP. Over on CIF we had liberals seriously suggesting that MI6 were posting under assumed names because some of the comments were too eloquent for their stereotypical view of “BNP” supporters. (They were soon banned, leaving only a few easy Aunt Sallies for the witty liberals to knock down). Realize this, it’s not that the “BNP” are flooding the internet, The Ordinary British have finally woken up to multikulti mendacity and mayhem.

    6. Yossarian (The Spittoon) — on 14th July, 2009 at 10:21 pm  

      Standing has written on Harry’s Place about how he does not identify as left, unlike the other writers there - hence his setting up Pro-British, Anti-Extremist.

      See his post http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/05/19/pro-british-anti-extremist/

      More fundamentally, however, how useful are left and right as labels any more?

      To what Rumbold wrote, hell yes let’s keep ‘em squirming in the spotlight. If Nick Griffin is going to be allowed on the Andrew Marr show on a Sunday morning, then let’s at least make sure that he does not get to put his arguments uncontested.

    7. Carmenego — on 14th July, 2009 at 10:41 pm  

      #6 Yossarian
      “how useful are left and right as labels any more?”

      I agree - The concepts of left and right wing seem to have taken on a new meaning as far as I can tell. All too often (at least on CIF and PP) people seem to lump New Labour in with left-wing politics without even looking at their (more often than not) right wing policies.

      I wonder how much of this gross polarisation has contributed to the general public being willingly misinformed to suit their anger over the way New Labour has twisted it’s role in Government.

    8. Mantis — on 14th July, 2009 at 11:11 pm  

      I was looking at one UAF blogsite (Lancaster Unity) that was reporting on the Centre for Social Cohesion report. Lancaster Unity mentions that:

      “The BNP supporting blog Britain Awake praises Combat 18 and supports violent attacks on Muslim women. Britain Awake is hosted by a self-described member of the BNP who claims to have attended the party’s exclusive Red, White and Blue festival.”

      The BNP repeatedly accuse islam of mistreatment of women (also parroted by Colin BrownTrout on this site) , and yet here we have the fascists advocated violent against muslim women! Cowards.

      Violence against women is no stranger to BNP members. Brian Turner was convicted of violence against his wife, Garry Marshall killed his girlfriend in cold blood and was jailed for life.

      Let’s not forget that this is the party whose members included scum like Ian hindle and Andrew Wells who where jailed for having sex with a child, and let’s also not forget that Roderick Rowley was imprisoned for distributing child pornography! This from a party whose members turn a blind eye to their own filthy activity while accusing muslims of grooming white girls!

      I say the BNP are the filthiest pack of hypocrites on the planet! The sooner that Britain is cleansed of this vile organization, the better.

      As for the Centre for Social Cohesion, I don’t like these sods either! I regard them as a pack of neocon wankers!

    9. Mantis — on 14th July, 2009 at 11:19 pm  

      Pardon me for my badly written post above. I’m too tired to care for my grammar at the moment!

    10. Mantis — on 15th July, 2009 at 12:31 am  

      Still, we should be grateful that the neocons came out with this report.

      I’m off to bed.

      Bonne nuit!

    11. Jamesw — on 15th July, 2009 at 8:46 am  

      I have read the report and find it hilarious that people can spend so much angst ridden time and effort pouring over BNP business. The idea of the Social Cohesion jonnies that being concerned about the future of your homeland and wishing to preserve it from foreign invasion makes a person a neo Nazi is one of the funniest things I ever heard! Don’t Jews do that, don’t Jews dislike the idea of their tribe marrying a non Jew? We should be told. ps Lee Barnes’ comments near the end of the report were brilliant - best laugh I’ve had for ages.

    12. persephone — on 15th July, 2009 at 9:56 am  

      ” More fundamentally, however, how useful are left and right as labels any more? ”

      Of little use

    13. persephone — on 15th July, 2009 at 9:56 am  

      ” More fundamentally, however, how useful are left and right as labels any more? ”

      Of little use

    14. Rumbold — on 15th July, 2009 at 10:01 am  

      I don’t agree with everything Edmund Standing says. But it doesn’t mean that this isn’t a useful report, for the reasons outlined above. It is perfectly reasonable to disagree with people on certain issues, then agree with them on others- how do you think political parties are formed?

    15. dashenka — on 15th July, 2009 at 10:37 am  

      ||||support for violence; antisemitism and an admiration of the Third Reich; extreme racist views; and Holocaust denial.||||

      hahaha, if I was not sure that we are talking about BNP here, I would definitely decide that YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MUSLIMS)))

      for real, it sounds very like muslim

    16. Carmenego — on 15th July, 2009 at 11:24 am  

      #15 dashenka

      Have you ever sat down with a Muslim and had a chat about stuff, actually listening to what they’re saying as opposed to waiting for your turn to speak?

      I reckon you’ll find the experience most enlightening, you may even make a new friend.

    17. organic cheeseboard — on 15th July, 2009 at 3:34 pm  

      Cross posted from the other thread on this:

      I do find it odd how much coverage this ‘report’ is getting. It’s just a bunch of the author’s blog posts repackaged in glossy covers.

      And for more of the author’s work see:

      http://edmundstanding.blogspot.com/2009/01/trouble-with-ed-husain.html

      http://edmundstanding.blogspot.com/2009/01/rocket-and-mortar-fire-into-israel-2000.html

      http://edmundstanding.blogspot.com/2008/12/operation-cast-lead.html

      http://pro-brit.blogspot.com/2009/05/no-to-nonsense-about-islamophobia.html

      I wonder why the Islamophobia has been downplayed by the report…

      I really don’t understand why Harry’s Place have taken this bloke on, aside from their penchant for ignoring anything dodgy about contributors as long as they’re on message about the ‘hard left’. But it rather undermines their ideas about ‘fellow travellers’.

    18. munir — on 15th July, 2009 at 3:38 pm  

      organic cheeseboard
      “I really don’t understand why Harry’s Place have taken this bloke on,”

      Are you serious? HP is deeply anti-Muslim

    19. douglas clark — on 15th July, 2009 at 3:47 pm  

      dashenka @ 15,

      I’ve met, and known, a few muslims in my time on this planet. Not one of them meets your criteria. Now, why would that be?

      Perhaps it is because they were real people, caught up in the real world and not fantasy figures of your own imagining? Not everything they did was perfect, but then again neither was anything anyone else did. I have my own standards for that sort of stuff.

      Oh well.

    20. Leon — on 15th July, 2009 at 4:07 pm  

      I don’t agree with everything Edmund Standing says. But it doesn’t mean that this isn’t a useful report, for the reasons outlined above. It is perfectly reasonable to disagree with people on certain issues, then agree with them on others- how do you think political parties are formed?

      I can’t see why that’s not considered a reasonable view. I share it…the point is the more orgs/people expose the BNP the better. We may not all agree 100% time or on tactics but we all want broadly the same outcome.

    21. Rumbold — on 15th July, 2009 at 4:36 pm  

      Thanks Leon. People need to remember why we are doing this.

      Organic Cheeseboard:

      So your point is that Edmund Standing, who has been working on this for a while, has talked about some of his findings while he was writing the report.

    22. douglas clark — on 15th July, 2009 at 5:32 pm  

      Edmund Standing seems to me to be willing, and able, to criticise hard right web sites. He is the one reason that HP remains interesting.

      It is dirty work, but he does it very well.

      On a somewhat different perspective on Mr Standing, see here:

      http://richarddawkins.net/article,1816,Are-the-New-Atheists-avoiding-the-real-arguments,Edmund-Standing-ButterfliesAndWheelscom

    23. Scots Tiger — on 15th July, 2009 at 5:48 pm  

      Carmenego wants us all to talk to actual Muslims about Islam.

      There are two obvious problems with this attractive and pleasingly simple suggestion.

      One obviously difficulty - in talking to and listening to a True Believer - is what’s known as ‘Taqiyya.’ This means wilful lying in the interests of Islam as a Belief System and in the temporal interests of the Muslimeen.

      The other difficulty - with the average sort of not-too-well educated Muslim is the simple fact that most born-into-the-Faith-Muslims simply don’t know very much about the Belief System they espouse.

      The clearest modern exposition of the Faith is that written by Abou Hammaad Sulaiman Dameus Al-Hayiti, a Madinah Theological University graduate who preaches in Quebec.

      The Canadian Human Rights commissars cravenly declined to chew his rear end despite his published views, available [in French] in full on the Internet.

      If anyone is genuinely interested in chasing the quite fascinating Al-Hayiti story they can go to the Ezra Levant and Mark Steyn sites and see what Al-Hayiti has to say about the appropriate attitudes the [male] Muslimeen should adopt towards unbelievers, homosexuals and wimmin.

      PERSONAL DISCLOSURE:
      The Tiger is in K.S.A. and is a college teacher. Sometimes those whom he teaches are young women. In any class, some are invariably veiled.

    24. Mantis — on 15th July, 2009 at 6:47 pm  

      Who are you kidding? That guy could read the same thing from the Torah and the Talmud! These jewish authors make me laugh!

      Talk about pot calling kettle black!

    25. Scots Tiger — on 15th July, 2009 at 7:49 pm  

      Mea Culpa - try here:

      http://pointdebasculecanada.ca/IMG/pdf/L_Islam_ou_l_Integrisme_3ieme_edition_.pdf

      =====================================

    26. Scots Tiger — on 15th July, 2009 at 7:55 pm  

      The link given [above] at 7.49 pm works fine.

      Does Mantis have more detailed theological learning than Imam Al-Hayiti?

    27. munir — on 15th July, 2009 at 8:04 pm  

      “The clearest modern exposition of the Faith is that written by Abou Hammaad Sulaiman Dameus Al-Hayiti, a Madinah Theological University graduate who preaches in Quebec.”

      Someone so well known that I have never heard of him despite knowing hundreds of contemporay Muslim scholars
      and who preaches in a language French not spoken by in a place Quebec where few Muslims live (it isnt even the most populated city in terms of Muslim in Canada)
      and he of course would have a small minority of Muslims actually go to his talks

      He so well known this “The clearest modern exposition” of teh faith that a google revealed only french or canadian sites (hardly world famous) and he doesnt even have his own website

      “If anyone is genuinely interested in chasing the quite fascinating Al-Hayiti story they can go to the Ezra Levant and Mark Steyn sites and see what Al-Hayiti has to say about the appropriate attitudes the [male] Muslimeen should adopt towards unbelievers, homosexuals and wimmin.”

      Ezra Levant and Mark Steyn are both extreme zionist Muslim haters

      Steyn essential advocated genocide of Muslims

      Suprisingly both are Jewish

    28. munir — on 15th July, 2009 at 8:08 pm  

      PERSONAL DISCLOSURE:
      The Tiger is in K.S.A. and is a college teacher. Sometimes those whom he teaches are young women. In any class, some are invariably veiled.

      Yes you are Bill Corr- who called for the genocdie of British Muslims - while living in Saudi Arabia

      Yet bizarrely you criticise an “Imam” for calling for the deaths of non Muslims while living in a non Muslim land . You are our very own Al Qaeda equivalent

      Hope the Saudis catch up with you very very soon

      I have some contacts…

    29. Mantis — on 16th July, 2009 at 9:42 pm  

      Munir,

      You mean Scots Tiger is someone called Bill Corr living in Dhahran?

      http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4261

    30. tomoe yamanaka — on 29th July, 2009 at 8:53 am  

      i like the Swastika it is a very pretty flag!

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