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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Banning our resident racist scum?


    by Sunny on 10th July, 2009 at 3:21 pm    

    We’ve been running quite a few articles attacking the BNP in recent weeks, and as a means to give some members a chance to come back, we’ve been allowing racists/nazis etc to comment on PP without getting deleted.

    As you can probably see, racist scum remain as such and the dialogue doesn’t become as constructive as it should be. What do regular readers think? Time to end that policy and get rid of all racists now? Or let the experiment carry on for a bit?



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    103 Comments below   |   Add your own

    1. Mantis — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:24 pm  

      No matter how many times you flush the nazi scum away, they always come floating back up!

    2. Carmenego — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:25 pm  

      Actually, I’d rather you kept them in as I’m compiling a list of all the batshit things they say for my blog.

      If it’s any good, could I email my findings to you to post on PP? It’ll make my mum very proud :-D

    3. Vikrant — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:28 pm  

      Well I’d say keep the comments as long as they arent a open provocation for a flame war.

    4. David O'Keefe — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:36 pm  

      Have you discussed this issue with the rest of the management?

    5. Yahya Birt — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:36 pm  

      Keep your options open for now, but if it degenerates as Vikrant says, then pull the plug on the individual offenders. Plus you’ll need to ban ISPs and not just tags.

    6. Raja Sahib — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:39 pm  

      freedom of speech is freedom of speech.

      incitement to hatred is incitement to hatred.

    7. Oliver — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:45 pm  

      let them stay i say; if you send them away you’ll only exacerbate their feelings of powerlessness and worthlessness making them even worse white supremacists than they already are. they’re just crying out for love and a home poor things.

    8. Carmenego — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:46 pm  

      “Are you going to risk little Camilla getting gang raped by a bunch of black kids?”

      Contains racism and unpleasant imagery of a child being attacked.

      You are a sick little man, chavscum

    9. Bill Corr — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:51 pm  

      Isn’t Vikrant the name of an aircraft carrier? Who knew such warships could read and write?

      Being a race realist and being a ‘real’ racist are very different things, as anyone who visits the invaluable *American Renaissance* website knows very well.

      Race realists have a rough idea - sometimes a precise idea - of which selfish ethno-cultural groups want to grab all the decent cell space in British and French and Dutch and Belgian and Swedish and Finnish and Norwegian prisons and which ethno-cultural groups are so nobly undemanding [or such exquisitely cunning criminals] that they willingly let others take their ‘fair share’ of prison space.

      Ask any London taxi-driver what he reckons are his chances of being mugged by a Jew or a Chinese compared to his chances of being mugged by a XXXXXX or a XXXX.

      There’s more to follow, if more is permitted.

    10. bananabrain — on 10th July, 2009 at 3:54 pm  

      and yet munir is still here….

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    11. Ravi Naik — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:09 pm  

      Being a race realist and being a ‘real’ racist are very different things

      No, they are not. You are just trying to introduce a politically correct term for ‘racist’.

    12. Ravi Naik — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:14 pm  

      They should not be banned, unless they behave like savages and use foul language. We should give them a chance to rationalise their racism and bigotry, which until now has been reduced to the absurd.

    13. Leon — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:18 pm  

      freedom of speech is freedom of speech.

      Banning them from here wouldn’t curtail their fos. They have the whole Internet to use to make themselves heard…

    14. Bill Corr — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:22 pm  

      Ravi Naik is not thinking clearly or perhaps making no effort to express himself well.

      Surely being a ‘racist’ means an obsession with skin colour to the exclusion of all other considerations, such as social behaviour, welfare dependency and criminality.

      [The American social scientists and criminologists, bless them, use the genteel term 'social pathologies,' which ought to be adopted more widely.]

      So far as I am aware, Hindus and Chinese are statistically under-represented in the U.K. prison system. My rough and quite unsupported guess is that Albanians are over-represented.

      In the U.S.A., Japanese-Americans have the highest rate of high school graduation and the lowest rate of incarceration.

      Although Muslims are statistically THREE TIMES over-represented in the U.K. prison population, my guess would be that Sufis and the ‘heretical’ Ahmadiyyas are barely represented at all [an example of the 'subset with no members.']

    15. chavscum — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:24 pm  

      The problem with you lefties is that you fake outrage and pretend you are the Mary Whitehouse of political correctness. You do this to dismiss any contrary opinions to your own indoctrinated dogma. It’s a safety tactic and sheer laziness. You don’t want to consider that your rhetoric may be built on dodgy principles, so its safer to interpret opposing opinions to the extreme. Therefore, anyone who criticises mass immigration or failed multi-cultural policies becomes a racist/xenophobe/anti-immigrant, etc.

      Its easy for me to win debates with you by using earthy language or tempting you with realist opinions. Most of you will bite the bate instantly and I’ll just reel you in, which proves 1) your views are ill-conceived, 2) you are lazy, 3) you are blinded by your own prejudice.

      Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will see that comment is an attempt to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the mostly white middle-class left in their self-righteous words on mass immigration and multi-culturalism and their contrary actions. Do as I say, not as I do is endemic in Socialism/Liberalism or whatever ‘ism you choose to attach yourselves to.

      You could learn something from me if you were truly liberal. Banning me would actually be beneficial as my work application would improve. Although I suppose the long term problem is I’m not stimulated enough at work. Maybe a career change is required. I could try politics.

    16. dashenka — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:25 pm  

      12 and you Ravi are just trying to label the truth as racism.

      truth can not be racism, truth is truth.

      should taxi-driver ingnore his experience just not to be called racists? I would not, I prefer be called alive racist, than dead tolerant politically correct person.

      is it bad?)))

      bye the way, in course if getting rid of racist scum here I would recommend to ban most article-writers who tend to find racosm ONLY IN WHITE PEOPLE. somehow they see it only there

    17. Don — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:29 pm  

      Getting a bit bored actually. No need to ban unless they get abusive, but I think we have seen their full repertoire.

      I think your policy of only allowing them on BNP related threads is reasonable.

    18. halima — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:29 pm  

      We erase and delete anything harmful and offensive so why wouldn’t we do the same with BNP offense?

      It actually puts me off reading posts where i see BNP contributers, it’s like they are here for a purpose and it isn’t to be like-minded and to debate so why play along? If they met you in a dark ally they wouldn’t talk to you - they’d give you a good kick-in and don’t be fooled by the nice white shirt and tie.

      I also don’t see the point of intelligent people wasting their time to get hate-mongers to change their mind - time is money.

    19. Carmenego — on 10th July, 2009 at 4:34 pm  

      Oh chavscum, you cavernous bucket.

      Multi-culturalism *is* winning, otherwise forums like this wouldn’t exist, and people from different backgrounds wouldn’t be able to live/work/blog/love/have children together in the UK, as many quite happily do.

      It’s kinda sweet that you think you’re winning, because all your posts seem to imply that you’ve lost already…

      Have a great weekend everyone! I’m off to a GIG, where there’ll be alcohol and women in short skirts and men with spiky hair. I’m WELL integrated, I am ;-)

    20. Bill Corr — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:01 pm  

      If Halima had spent an hour attempting to read the ghastly illiterate reader-contributed rubbish to be seen on the actual BNP website, she’d hardly wonder if people who are 51%-100% in sympathy with some, all or most of the BNP’s stated aims choose to post elsewhere.

      Are readers here familiar with Theodore Dalrymple a.k.a. Anthony Daniels?

      His writings are to be found in City Journal, for example:

      http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_when_islam.html

    21. 1mongrel — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:12 pm  

      Speaking as someone who was banned from CIF simply for posting ONS Stats on a thread I’m not surprised at this reaction. Ban away if you like. Multikultiism depends on suppression of truth and distorted media for its survival. I’ve seen no bad language or petty insults from the right on here but plenty from the left. BTW Sonny, surely “Dialogue” requires more than 1 POV. Anyway, if your all happy to spend your time on here congratulating each other on your shared rightonness then who am I to spoil the party? It’s your blog in the end.

    22. 5cc — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:14 pm  

      Let them stay, unless they make comment threads in general degenerate into a quagmire of racist groaning.

      The odd racist comment by BNP supporters only helps show the shallowness of their claims to have reformed, and a lot of the other stuff shows how some of the other stuff they spout isn’t based in reality.

      Ban people if they become persistently offensive or are clearly deliberately trolling, but otherwise let them incriminate themselves as much as they like.

    23. damon — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:33 pm  

      I think it’s all a bit of a waste of time (having hardcore racists on the site) as it seems that discussion just stops. Nobody is going to discuss what really should be done about Africa’s migrants crossing the seas and the Sahara desert to try and make their way (gatecrash?) into Europe.
      Or to discuss some of the issues of ‘ghettoisation’ that occur in poor neighbourhoods, and why it’s understandable that sections of the society might balk at their kids school becoming so diverse that the parents might have trouble understanding how and why these changes occur.
      I think that while BNP types are on the site, not much of use will be said, as people get defensive.

    24. Bill Corr — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:37 pm  

      As a newcomer, I have to say that the level of infantile personal abuse on this site is far too high but not as unpleasant as elsewhere. Compared to some places, it is hardly abuse at all.

      What I find astonishing and almost incomprehensible is the way in which anyone who fails to squeal in totally delighted agreement with the multiculti claptrap of present-day Britain - which has now hardened into dogma - is howled at as a fascist, Nazi, BNP-adherent and worse.

      Anyway, at #22 above, I give a link to a very fine and perceptive article by an excellent writer.

      Those who find Dalrymple’s writings of interest might care to peruse the offerings by the same author on Amazon.

      GIRLS SCREAMING ALOUD
      On another matter altogether, have any of you followed the absurdities of the *Girls [Scream] Aloud* trial and the conclusions to be drawn from it?

      Here is the story [and please DO feel free to pass this along if you so choose] in brief:

      -1- There is a pop group called Girls Aloud.

      -2- Darryn Walker, a British civil servant, writes a hideous abduction-torture-murder fantasy - called Girls [Scream] Aloud - about them and posts it pseudonymously - as blakesinclair69@yahoo.co.uk - on the ‘net at an American site called *asstr stories* in the section called Just Putrid Stories.

      -3- Some Internet Watch busybodies and smut-haters find the story and somehow track down the aforesaid civil servant in Geordiestan, who is thereupon arrested - and promptly fired from his job.

      -4- A prosecution is brought which subsequently collapses when it is proved that no dizzy kid could possibly find the story by accident.

      As a Libertarian, I find this to be a victory for liberty, as the website The Register rightly so regards it, but the hobby-writer is now poorer and now a figure of notoriety locally.

      Will he ever get his civil service job back?

      Any comments?

    25. marvin — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:41 pm  

      I am wandering about the possible effect of debate on the more extremist types, debate with them long enough, they become familiar with us, some will eventually start to moderate their views. A worthy cause. Still, I’d agree they should probably be limited to certain posts that pertain to the BNP etc.

    26. Amrit — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:45 pm  

      I second what 5cc says. I think personally that we need to pay attention to them less (because then they make threads all about them and their imaginary victimisation), and just watch them like hawks. Carmenego seems to be on that already!

      Anyone else interested in BNP-troll bingo? I have been sorely tempted to make a bingo card for a while now, but I’d need the help of others here :-D . The idea is based on this, which always makes me laugh out loud:

      http://viv.id.au/blog/20080218.1460/antifeminist-bingo-2/

    27. Amrit — on 10th July, 2009 at 5:47 pm  

      *points upwards at BC’s post* Wow, some of our new arrivals really aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer, are they?

    28. davebones — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:00 pm  

      You know what I think by now. If we aren’t shooting each other- lets talk. Across the board. Everyone.

      Its up to you what you do with your forum and I can understand why you might want to close the door but I think the way you have decided to go with this is really interesting. You challenged the BNP to discuss policy in detail, some of them are here doing that.

      I haven’t seen anything overly abusive, but I have quite a strange threshold and I am a honky anyway so maybe it makes less of a difference? Don’t know. Up to you.

    29. chairwoman — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:05 pm  

      Leave them.

      They concentrate our collective minds.

    30. Don — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:06 pm  

      Bill,

      @26
      Yeah, I’ll comment. Mr Walker is clearly a very sick puppy. His sickness went public and now those who know him look at him with different eyes. Why wouldn’t they? He thought that pseudonymously = anonymously. That was a mistake.

      Should he have lost his job? Maybe not, although having an employee who so creeps out the rest of the staff that they don’t want to be in the same room is a problem which apparently can be solved by getting rid of the creep. Who, after all, brought it on himself. From an employers point of view it’s a pragmatic solution if the law allows it.

      What law was he supposed to have broken? I have De Sade, Genet and Burroughs on my shelf, should I worry?

      Are you suggesting that sick rape/torture/murder fantasies are analagous to the BNP mind-set? Interesting and probably valid comparison.

    31. davebones — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:06 pm  

      I don’t get what chavscum says about white lefties being self righteous either. I just get on with people. Britain, London, is a cool thing. I understand that some people are integrationally challenged because of upbringing. I meet people like that and advise them to have a good look around the world. Put yourself in another culture for a while. The world is a huge infinity of beautiful things places and people. There is a diversity. It makes me happy.

      There have been failures in integration but why dwell on them? It will just make you angry. It is better to deal with these things like adults. We aren’t dogs. We don’t need to bark at each other. Being human is a beautiful thing which we should celebrate in its diversity. we are all going to die one day. we are here but for a second mate. Have a look about :-)

    32. Miriam Binder — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:15 pm  

      @ Damon #24 … that has always been the problem though by and large. There is no real discussion when you have to spend most of your time responding to infantile whinging. However, refusing entry is merely adding fuel to their pathetic little watchfires.

      The thing is, if you really want to discuss it, you should just put the ramblings on ignore and post around them rather then in response to them.

      Free speech does not mean that anyone is required to listen, it means anyone can sound off - with the proviso of course that everyone is personally accountable for those things they choose to say.

    33. zak — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:17 pm  

      Sunny: when did stupidity become a point of view?

    34. Bill Corr — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:19 pm  

      Don -
      GIRLS SCREAMING ALOUD
      The silly chap’s pseudonymous status was an obvious error, as was giving a very obvious *yahoo.co.uk* address.

      MORAL:
      When writing hideous sado-masochistic filth, always leave a false trail leading to - er - a Gafcon bishop or someone like Richard Littlejohn.

      ON RUDENESS ON THE BLOGOSPHERE:
      Amrit-
      The issue of personal and infantile abuse needs to addressed honestly. Nobody on this site would accuse YOU of not having an agreeable ‘wheat complexion’ or excreting beside a railway line or starting the day with a refreshing glass of your own urine, I hope.

    35. davebones — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:27 pm  

      Does that sound self righteous? What does self righteous mean? That you think you are right?

    36. Vikrant — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:37 pm  

      Isn’t Vikrant the name of an aircraft carrier? Who knew such warships could read and write?

      Oh boy did you google that? Not exactly a light bulb are we? Us Pakis’ have weird names innit?

    37. MaidMarian — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:37 pm  

      Broadly speaking I err on the side of open speech.

      But Sunny, you might want to dwell on the idea that so many come on here because there have been far too many articles on the subject in the few weeks.

      I say this with the best will in the world - you’ve made your point and PP is suffering. I’m sure others will disagree.

    38. Vikrant — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:47 pm  

      Amrit-
      The issue of personal and infantile abuse needs to addressed honestly. Nobody on this site would accuse YOU of not having an agreeable ‘wheat complexion’ or excreting beside a railway line or starting the day with a refreshing glass of your own urine, I hope.

      Just like nobody on this website would accuse you of not being an inbred council estate wanker. I wonder what took you BNP fellers to troll forums like these. I’ve been running into your lot from right-wing American blogs to PP! Honestly, tell me… did you guys just discover internet can be used for other purposes than wanking off to pornography?

    39. Nina37 — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:53 pm  

      If you feel certain posters are detracting from any sort of logical discussion by all means…

      I’ve experienced this on a few websites - they’re like a dog with a bone and just hurl insults without properly engaging.

      In addition; they do seem to spend an impressive amount of time online baiting 24/7 - maybe banning them would be for their own good? They might go for a walk or pick up a book?

    40. Amrit — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:57 pm  

      Bill Corr -

      What on earth are you talking about?! I haven’t ever met anyone with a ‘wheat’ complexion, given that humans tend to be non-cereal based…

      Nice try with the silencing techniques, but I don’t think they’re going to work.

      Man, being a feminist in the age of the Net ROCKS!

    41. chairwoman — on 10th July, 2009 at 6:58 pm  

      “They might go for a walk or pick up a book?”

      A quick yomp through Poland, and then curl up with a well thumbed copy of Mein Kampf?

    42. Nina37 — on 10th July, 2009 at 7:02 pm  

      @chairwoman

      Genius :)

    43. Bill Corr — on 10th July, 2009 at 7:38 pm  

      It was interesting to read what flipside posted; didn’t Woolas have to endure a storm of foully ill-mannered abuse in consequence or his raising a semi-taboo subject?

      Everyone knows that cross-cousin marriage is a jolly bad idea but, as Ann Cryer MP said, it’s a matter of keeping things within an extended family rather than romping off and marrying a Nip or someone from the typing pool.

      Here’s a puzzler: how and why on earth is it considered insulting to say that someone is from a council estate or - in the U.S.A. - from a trailer park? Evelyn Waugh made the telling point that every Irish writer of the nineteenth century represented himself as either a gentleman of ancient family or a genius from a turf cabin.

      Cross-Cultural note: For reasons too depressing to need explaining, those advertising their daughters in the ‘Matrimonials’ sections of Indian and Expatriate-Indian newspapers will frequently stress the fact that the lady on offer possesses a ‘wheat complexion’ rather than being, shall we say, rather darker. If one has the opportunity to watch Indian movies, as most people do these days, one is well aware that the heroine, in particular, could easily be mistaken for a south European or a Syrian.

      There’s even a brand of soap and skin cleanser called ‘Fair and Lovely.’ This is a popular brand in Penang and Sarawak for no discernable reason.

    44. Bill Corr — on 10th July, 2009 at 7:58 pm  

      STOP PRESS:
      Over on Harry’s Place David T. tells us that one of David Cameron’s great-great-grandfather was a Jewish immigrant who became a remarkably successful businessman, adding that Cameron is descended from a Jewish scholar of renown.

      REMINDER:
      We have four grandparents and eight great-grandparents and sixteen great-grandparents. Those interested can check out what percentage of the Earl of Home’s genes are derived in direct line from the first Earl.

      Which is one excellent reason why the BNP should clam up on the subject of skin colour and concentrate on the issue of social pathologies. Enough about the BNP.

    45. billericaydicky — on 10th July, 2009 at 8:08 pm  

      It is best to let them stay. Non make a good argument. However the anti fascist movement is less than happy with the “debates”.

      If you read Nick Lowles’s latest comments on Searchlight it is of course clear that the whole “No platform” issue is changing. We cannot keep them off the airwaves simply because of the publicity that they now have and you will see that apart from pointing out their lack of intellect I have not engaged in dialogue with them.

      It is important to recognise the difference.

    46. Vikrant — on 10th July, 2009 at 9:31 pm  

      Cross-Cultural note: For reasons too depressing to need explaining, those advertising their daughters in the ‘Matrimonials’ sections of Indian and Expatriate-Indian newspapers will frequently stress the fact that the lady on offer possesses a ‘wheat complexion’ rather than being, shall we say, rather darker. If one has the opportunity to watch Indian movies, as most people do these days, one is well aware that the heroine, in particular, could easily be mistaken for a south European or a Syrian.

      There’s even a brand of soap and skin cleanser called ‘Fair and Lovely.’ This is a popular brand in Penang and Sarawak for no discernable reason.

      How do repungant India notions of skin colour justify your racism anyhow?

    47. 1mongrel — on 10th July, 2009 at 9:35 pm  

      Vikrant (46)

      “How do repungant India notions of skin colour justify your racism anyhow?”

      They merely explain that to someone with jaundice the whole world appears to be yellow (Indian Version) or as we say in The West “Projection”.

    48. Vikrant — on 10th July, 2009 at 9:46 pm  

      They merely explain that to someone with jaundice the whole world appears to be yellow (Indian Version) or as we say in The West “Projection”.

      Do you realise that no matter how you parse that statement, it barely makes sense. Pouting random psychological jargon hardly makes you sound intellectual mate. Or are you claiming that Indians are projecting their racism on you “oh-so-poor-victimised-indigenous-lads”?

    49. 1mongrel — on 10th July, 2009 at 10:07 pm  

      Vikram (47) Ask your mum, she’ll know what I mean. Some time ago The BBC conducted a street survey on The Euro, when an elderly gentlemen expressed some doubts he was accused of “Racism”. Similarly Tony Blair stood up in Parliament and made the same accusation against an elderly woman for daring to complain of her NHS treatment. Fraid its meaningless now and yes, those that see it everywhere and use it to avoid discussion are projecting their own caste/religious prejudices into a self hating white liberal elite only too willing to bend over and take it.

    50. Vikrant — on 10th July, 2009 at 10:28 pm  

      Vikram (47) Ask your mum, she’ll know what I mean.

      Bugger off… You don’t know my personal circumstances at all. Will suffice to say my parents comes from two radically different “caste” and linguistic groups in India.

      white liberal elite only too willing to bend over and take it.

      As some who losely supported Hindu nationalists at one point, I realise how closely all xenophobic ideologies follow the victimisation narrative. It usually goes along the lines of “media controlling liberal elite” have sold the populance to the demonised other (immigrants in BNP’s case or Muslims as in the case of RSS et al.)…

    51. Adnan — on 10th July, 2009 at 10:34 pm  

      “As some who losely supported Hindu nationalists at one point, I realise how closely all xenophobic ideologies follow the victimisation narrative.”

      That’s a breath of fresh air. Good on you Vikrant.

    52. munir — on 10th July, 2009 at 10:46 pm  

      “and yet munir is still here….

      b’shalom

      bananabrain”

      poor banana brain - still upset because I called him what he called Muslims ” a bearded inbred”

    53. inders — on 10th July, 2009 at 11:15 pm  

      48. Proof. Links. Sources.

    54. Sunny — on 10th July, 2009 at 11:57 pm  

      into a self hating white liberal elite only too willing to bend over and take it.

      Why do I get the feeling this applies to you more than others?

    55. Bill Corr — on 11th July, 2009 at 2:44 am  

      How about a distinct thread reserved purely for personal abuse?

      That way the other threads could be used as forums [forae?] for discussion. Even members of the rat-eater caste could contribute without fear of enduring meaningless vituperation and endless whataboutery.

    56. Boyo — on 11th July, 2009 at 7:14 am  

      If that include anti-semites, then I’m with you. But let’s face it, your definition of racism is pretty flexible.

    57. Rumbold — on 11th July, 2009 at 8:04 am  

      As others have said, let us argue with them if they are polite, ignore them if they are rude, and delete them if they are abusive.

    58. Newbie — on 11th July, 2009 at 8:13 am  

      An extract from: “About us”

      “We have an Asian (meaning South Asia) tinge to our stories as some of us are of that background, but our politics are broad and progressive”.

      I know, that most of you who contribute regularly/run PP, are well-meaning people. However, as ‘progressive’ types, you are also a very, very, dangerous creed.

      Both Right, and Centre-minded people have a duty to society in the same way you feel you do, to express and ultimately address, what is perceived by both camps as an imbalance that needs to be addressed.

      Why do I call you dangerous? Well, they say a picture tells a thousand words. Therefore, I’ll express my feelings on this with a few well chosen short videos.

      1). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLULJ_QFIFM

      2). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq8wvG7p1c4

      3). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZDo4xbS0r4

      4). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTvSuu-x9mQ

      5). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ing95CynJg&feature=related

      So, there you go. The BNP wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for deluded-liberals who promote communism without even realising they’re doing it.

      Stalin killed at least 20 million innocent hard working people including Jews. What progressives are doing with their ‘I support liberalism’ stance, will create a society that is enslaved by Cultural Marxism.

      For the good of humanity, you must be countermanded.

    59. 1mongrel — on 11th July, 2009 at 8:30 am  

      Vikram (49)

      “Bugger off… You don’t know my personal circumstances at all. Will suffice to say my parents comes from two radically different “caste” and linguistic groups in India.”

      Then surely one of them will recognize this translation of an old Hindi proverb.

    60. 1mongrel — on 11th July, 2009 at 8:31 am  

      Sunny (53)

      Projection?

    61. 1mongrel — on 11th July, 2009 at 8:41 am  

      Inders (52)

      Try reading a newspaper occasionally.

    62. inders — on 11th July, 2009 at 9:22 am  

      A newspaper other then the Daily Mail ? Or just the Daily Mail ?

    63. 1mongrel — on 11th July, 2009 at 10:27 am  

      Inders (62)

      How about this, ethically sound enough for you? Surely you don’t expect links for every bit of news that is common knowledge? (Still, I suppose that enables you to decry the source rather than answer the point).

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/jan/27/conservatives.health

      Incidentally, The Grauniad tops the list for printing apologies, it’s their accuracy we should doubt rather than any of the other MSM.

    64. chairwoman — on 11th July, 2009 at 10:51 am  

      newbie - How much does this guy Savage pay you? Or are you he?

    65. 5cc — on 11th July, 2009 at 11:19 am  

      “Incidentally, The Grauniad tops the list for printing apologies, it’s their accuracy we should doubt rather than any of the other MSM.”

      The Guardian prints apologies without being forced to by the PCC, unlike the other papers.

      Maybe that’s a reason for trusting the Graun’s honesty a bit more.

    66. Newbie — on 11th July, 2009 at 11:32 am  

      Number 64. By: chairwoman.

      No. I am someone who is attempting to upen closed minds.

      6). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZbhQm-c-PQ

      7). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMfZ7czIIWY

      8). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJkOz3afFY&feature=related

    67. 1mongrel — on 11th July, 2009 at 11:38 am  

      5cc(65).

      Either that or they realize that the canard on page 1 will be remembered long after the apology on page 33 is forgotten. (If it was ever read in the first place).

    68. persephone — on 11th July, 2009 at 12:29 pm  

      I say leave them on.

      Engage with those who have something concrete to say and ignore those who are being racist. Keep the latter’s comments on display as it shows their true (racist) colours and so debunks the facade of being dressed up as ‘legitimate concerns’

    69. douglas clark — on 11th July, 2009 at 12:44 pm  

      I agree with Rumbold @ 57,

      That should be the rules for anyone commenting here.

    70. 5cc — on 11th July, 2009 at 1:21 pm  

      1mongrel @66

      Either that or they realize that the canard on page 1 will be remembered long after the apology on page 33 is forgotten. (If it was ever read in the first place).

      That’s way more likely to happen when papers bury an apology on a random, easily missed page rather than in an easy to find ‘Corrections and Clarifications’ column.

      Guess which one of those the Guardian does, and which one the tabloids do.

      And let’s not forget, voluntarily publishing corrections is still far better than avoiding publishing them at all unless compelled to by the PCC.

    71. damon — on 11th July, 2009 at 1:57 pm  

      While I have no sympathy for the views of BNP types, I do dispare sometimes at the gulf of incomprehension that exists between that section of a population that thinks like that (which if you take out the most extreme element of it, isn’t so far from Daily Mail/Sun newspaper ”normality”), and the anti-racist left.

      In fact I would go as far as to say that it’s mainstream views of some people on this blog that are further removed from what would be seen as everyday opinions, than some of the views put foreward by our ”our racist scum”.
      It saddens me that that’s the case, as I wish people more people were closer to the politics of this website and ‘Liberal Democracy’ - but it seems that’s just not how it is.
      I think the right get more extreme because they feel their ”common sense aproach” is shunned so hard and called ”fascist” etc.

      Btw, I only noticed these ‘letters’ in that online magazine ‘Spiked’ this morning.
      About the Roma gypsies who had been hounded out of their houses in Belfast last month.
      Now even if you really don’t like those Spiked people, they without doubt have always been ardent anti-racists …. so I wondered, why did they publish these three letters about the Roma in Belfast?
      http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/letters/7090/

      The views that are given an airing in those three letters would be dismissed as Daily Mail rantings (or worse) if they were made on this forum by people of a ”dubious” background … wouldn’t they?

      My point is, that I think that some of the left help grow extremism by being so intransigent to people who take a different view.
      Even though I have only seen a few posts by him, Ger Francis (of Respect) gave me the impression he would be very quick with the denunciations of people whose views he didn’t agree with.

    72. damon — on 11th July, 2009 at 1:57 pm  

      While I have no sympathy for the views of BNP types, I do dispare sometimes at the gulf of incomprehension that exists between that section of a population that thinks like that (which if you take out the most extreme element of it, isn’t so far from Daily Mail/Sun newspaper ”normality”), and the anti-racist left.

      In fact I would go as far as to say that it’s mainstream views of some people on this blog that are further removed from what would be seen as everyday opinions, than some of the views put foreward by our ”our racist scum”.
      It saddens me that that’s the case, as I wish people more people were closer to the politics of this website and ‘Liberal Democracy’ - but it seems that’s just not how it is.
      I think the right get more extreme because they feel their ”common sense aproach” is shunned so hard and called ”fascist” etc.

      Btw, I only noticed these ‘letters’ in that online magazine ‘Spiked’ this morning.
      About the Roma gypsies who had been hounded out of their houses in Belfast last month.
      Now even if you really don’t like those Spiked people, they without doubt have always been ardent anti-racists …. so I wondered, why did they publish these three letters about the Roma in Belfast?
      http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/letters/7090/

      The views that are given an airing in those three letters would be dismissed as Daily Mail rantings (or worse) if they were made on this forum by people of a ”dubious” background … wouldn’t they?

      My point is, that I think that some of the left help grow extremism by being so intransigent to people who take a different view.
      Even though I have only seen a few posts by him, Ger Francis (of Respect) gave me the impression he would be very quick with the denunciations of people whose views he didn’t agree with.

    73. Sunny — on 11th July, 2009 at 2:18 pm  

      My point is, that I think that some of the left help grow extremism by being so intransigent to people who take a different view.

      There’s a few responses:

      1) How do a bunch of nutjobs like 1mongrel and chavscum etc represent broader British opinion? There’s little evidence they do.

      2) I’m closer to British opinion on most issues but why in the world should I constantly try and understand and agree with a bunch of racist nutjobs who would rather have me deported the minute they get the opportunity.

      There may be a divide in opinion. So what? That’s politics for you. There’s more divide in the United States between the left and the right.

    74. marvin — on 11th July, 2009 at 2:37 pm  

      #70 Give that man a medal!

      Spot on comment Damon.

      I think that some of the left help grow extremism by being so intransigent to people who take a different view

      I have felt myself almost pushed to rebel against some of the more screechy left-wing debate. Some people who comment here obviously mean well, but seem so far removed from majority normal views that it’s just silly and definitely counter-productive.

      I absolutely guarantee you that equating Hitler’s extermination of the Jews with having frivolous plastic bag usage absolutely has a negative effect and makes people less likely to make positive behaviour changes with regards to the environment, for one example.

      Reading some of the naive or hysterical comments here almost made me want to take my fridge outside and smash it up to release those HCFC’s in to the atmos, youtube it, then post a link to it on here. I didn’t because im not a fucking mental, but it’s the thought that counts!

    75. Sunny — on 11th July, 2009 at 2:39 pm  

      I have felt myself almost pushed to rebel against some of the more screechy left-wing debate. Some people who comment here obviously mean well, but seem so far removed from majority normal views that it’s just silly and definitely counter-productive.

      Have you ever considered the fact that racism and bigotry, like the type displayed here by our new arrivals, also makes lefties and especially ethnic minorities become more defensive and not give a shit about public opinion?

    76. marvin — on 11th July, 2009 at 3:11 pm  

      Yes I do consider this Sunny. I think everyone with the passion for politics has the same instinct when they feel provoked. I guess I am holding the left up to a higher standard, cos they bloody well keep telling me that they are the higher standard :P

      I just think that people of the left think their point of view is inherently enlightened and well above the usual talking points of the common man. That’s their pejorative; but if they’re really so enlightened, I can’t help but ask, why do they seem virtually incapable of acknowledging that across the bough the people do make at least some valid points.

      Immigration from the African continent has dramatically increased the number of people with HIV in London. Yet why was there a campaign warning about the risk of HIV infection not too long ago of pictures of white heterosexual chavs from the home counties?!

      In some ways, ‘antiracism’ of the left has created a culture of fear, and inevitably public sector workers will be scared shitless of the accusations of racism. Yes they may be a bit thick, in my view, if they don’t mention race at all through fear of the ultimate sin of racism. But still…

      In terms of the NHS, a colour blind approach results in fatal negligence. The previously mentioned HIV campaign may have actually reduced infection rates had it actually been targeted at the at risk groups.

      The lefts’ favourite phrase of derision, political correctness gone mad, highlights the issue. Instead of genuinely trying to tackle political correctness that has counter productive effects, they just attack the messengers as a bit thick! Not such an enlightened approach after all if they can’t agree or acknowledge genuine problems with those they generally disagree with!!

      But yes, I do get it, and understand we’re all human and sometimes our behaviours have the opposite desired effect through our angry retorts to the unjust.

    77. Rob — on 11th July, 2009 at 3:17 pm  

      Depends what you mean by constructive.

      If you are having a hissy fit because someone has torn your argument to shreds then it would be in keeping with leftist tradition to ban the said person.

      On the other hand, anyone that is here just to throw insults should be warned, then banned.

      Which is it?

    78. Sunny — on 11th July, 2009 at 4:35 pm  

      I just think that people of the left think their point of view is inherently enlightened

      And the right don’t?? Marvin you’ve been reading this blog for years. Are you telling me I’ve never accepted that sometimes the right has a valid viewpoint on certain issues? You think I’ve never accepted that sometimes political correctness has gone too far? Have I never criticised Ken Livingstone or Lee Jasper?

      It’s easy to paint everyone simplistically isn’t it?

      And yet, how many times do people on the right acknowledge and do something about racism? When do they accept that minorities also have rights to live their lives how they want to?

    79. damon — on 11th July, 2009 at 4:44 pm  

      To Sunny @ 73.
      I think those kinds of people you mentioned in your point number one were (unfortunately) shown to be somewhat mainstream in that three part Rageh Omaar documentary last year.
      http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/immigration+the+inconvenient+truth/1933847

    80. Sunny — on 11th July, 2009 at 4:52 pm  

      If immigration was a such a burning issue for everyone then surely Michael ‘are you thinking what we’re thinking?’ Howard would have been elected last time around.

    81. Colin Brown — on 11th July, 2009 at 5:09 pm  

      Id decade after decade opposing opinions cannot be aired, speaking to your fellow man is like talking to a Martian.

    82. Vikrant — on 11th July, 2009 at 5:13 pm  

      I’d agree with damon and marvin, many of the views are quite mainstream, especially outside the home counties. Left is doing itself a lot of harm by completely refusing to acknowledge these views. I think many people *do resent* stuff like the fact that CRE has been used to haul a lot of people on flimsiest of charges of racism. Our multicultural model, which largely developed as a reaction to the likes of Enoch Powell and National Front tends to exclude the majority and there is a growing sense that British identity has been diluted by the liberal elite enforced multi-culturism and that the working class people of the country were never consulted about this.
      I’m not saying that people are entirely justified in feeling this way, but this is what many of them have begun to feel nevertheless.

      The ceaseless name calling on both sides impedes any serious debate on immigration. People who would like to see an end to all immigration or reduced immigration aren’t necessarily racists. They are well… being typical humans with their tribal possessiveness over a land. Even if majority of British people aren’t voting BNP doesn’t mean that they subscribe to establishment’s views on immigration (to draw an analog most Hindus in India will express casual disdain and xenophobia against Muslims in private but won’t vote the Hindu nationalists to power). The first step towards winning this segment of the population over ofcourse is acknowledging their views.

    83. Vikrant — on 11th July, 2009 at 5:17 pm  

      If immigration was a such a burning issue for everyone then surely Michael ‘are you thinking what we’re thinking?’ Howard would have been elected last time around.

      This hardly translates to a popular support for immigration. Majority opinion imho is somewhere between “don’t care” and “disdain”.

    84. damon — on 11th July, 2009 at 5:26 pm  

      Rageh Omaar (I said a week ago) may have been irresponsible to make such a prime time (early evening) documentary.
      I’m sure it brought up issues for racists to raise.
      That YouGov survey for example.
      http://www.channel4.com/news/media/immigration/immigration_survey.pdf

      This post and my last one were meant to be one post, but I hit the wrong button - but anyway …. point number 2 of Sunny’s post @ 73 is harder.

      Why should you give a care to what people who would have you deported say?

      They’d say the same thing to part of my extended family too (non-white inlaws and partners).
      Of course tell them what you think of them, but even just last night, I was driving through London last night (for work in a truck) and at half past eleven I went past Brockwell Park headig towards Brixton, then Stockwell, then over the river into the West End.
      At Brockwell Park (at Hearn Hill), it was a lovely night. People were standing ouside pubs, and outside clubs, and eating inside resturants.
      I couldn’t help but notice the racial segregation in Friday night socialising practicices between black and white.
      (And of course class comes into this too.).
      I notice things like this on a weekly basis, and I’m sure the racists going about their business notice all these small kind of things too.
      They are just so blunt and symplistic about what they see. I struggle to make sense of these things.
      And I think it should be recognised as a struggle … like Sunny just did in post number 78 (or that’s the way I read it anyways).

      The thing about Michael Howard and the popularity or otherwise of raising race/immigration issues in British politics (I think) could be a whole discussion in itself.
      Just raising theissue is an extremely frought thing to do in our current climate.
      ”Even” UKIP have alegations of racism thrown against them. (And I think they probably have underlying racist sentiment running through the party, but it’s not overt enough to call it as such I think).

    85. Scots Tiger — on 11th July, 2009 at 5:42 pm  

      Vikrant has identified the issue exactly.

      If and when the BNP can manage to cross the barrier into clean-fingernail respectability, they will get more mainstream support.

      However, all the powers of the British state and all the snapping, snarling and contempt - like a ’shock revelation’ about Nick Griffin’s tinker grandparents or great-grandparents or some other bloody rubbish - of the British media are ranged against the BNP. One wonders who has ordered this incessant harrassment.

      Will this campaign of vituperation against the BNP actually work at the next U.K. election, bearing in mind that the U.K. electoral system works to the disadvantage of third and fourth parties?

      Vikrant has drawn a parallel with India and Indian politics but this parallel is misleading. India is a Federal country and anyone with any knowledge of the Indian political reality is aware that some States like Orissa and Bihar are appalling dumps - even Tamil Nadu is a bad joke, politically speaking - and West Bengal is ruled by claptrap-brained all-poor-together Bengali Marxists while Gujerat is - as Gujeratis will readily tell you or anyone else - is very very ‘business-friendly.’

      The parallels, is any there ever were, disappear on examination.

      By existing and winning a measure of electoral support, the BNP has altered the political reality, as have the nationalist parties in Continental Europe.

      We can only wait and see.

    86. joe90kane — on 11th July, 2009 at 8:03 pm  

      If and when the BNP can manage to cross the barrier into clean-fingernail respectability, they will get more mainstream support.
      - Just like Hitler.

      Speaking of Hitler, he’s my ideal nazi.
      Not only did he swallow poison but, just in case, he shot himself in the head. As if that wasn’t enough he had already ordered his subordinate nazi-scum to burn him to a cinder.

      Mind you, I did read in Mark Mazower’s excellent book Hitler’s Empire: Nazi Rule in Occipied Europe of a certain Nazi called Josef Terboven, made Reich commissioner of Nazi-Occupied Norway, who felt so bad about being a Nazi scumbag he actually blew himself to pieces. That’s ideal. Page 104 for the grizzly but too few details.

      My least ideal nazi is one that’s still breathing, such as Nick Griffin (whose name roughly translated as ‘Devil Beast’).

      I hope this helps PP.

      ps
      Maybe PPP can run a competition -
      @Who’s Your Ideal Nazi and Why?’

    87. joe90kane — on 11th July, 2009 at 8:05 pm  

      pps
      I thought I’d deleted my ps in my prevous comment.
      Please ignore it.

    88. Adnan — on 11th July, 2009 at 11:25 pm  

      Amrit @ 26

      “Anyone else interested in BNP-troll bingo? I have been sorely tempted to make a bingo card for a while now, but I’d need the help of others here :-D . The idea is based on this, which always makes me laugh out loud:”

      1. British pluck argument it’s like we’re the defenders at Rorke’s rift.

      2. Political correctness argument: the Zulus are like us - they eventually got rid of the Brits.

      3. Nazi indignation: Nazi dear, me dear, how VERY dare you !?!

      4. Blame (anybody else): I can’t get a job in a big company because minorities have to come first - mwah, mwah.

      It’s the white middle class liberal elite’s fault.

      The race relations industry are to blame.

      4. Tough talking future statesman: sink a few immigrant boats - that’ll learn ‘em.

      5. Found feminine side: we love Jews and homosexuals (but could only eat 2 at a time).

      Skilled immigrants (= “racial foreigners”) are needed more in their own countries.

      6. Economic selfishness argument: I’m boycotting curry houses ‘cos Asians never spend any money in our businesses and send it all abroad. I drink their Cobra beer.

      7. Nearly everyone can join in: don’t blame it on the sunshine, don’t blame it on the moonlight, don’t blame it on the good times - blame it on the MUSLIMS!

      8. Patronising pompous ass: read article once, once again, and think about it before you answer. Time for some Kipling methinks…

      9. Invasion of the body snatchers argument: British race being replaced over time and dying out.

    89. Celtlord — on 12th July, 2009 at 12:47 am  

      Recent immigration is an ideological experiment, mass immigration more so. There is no inherent right for immigrant or descendant minorities to import their cultural practices into Great Britain, to suggest otherwise is approaching an attempted colonization by immigrants, or their descendants You ask the question,”When do they accept that minorities also have rights to live their lives how they want to?” in reference to perspective from the “Right” Let’s take for example Female circumcision, in North Africa a common practice, Yet in Culture of the UK, it is a horrid form of child abuse. Honor killings, forced marriages, Islam’s elevation of it’s founder to the position of moral exemplar for all Humanity, while the historic record from islamic sources describes his actions, rape, torture, assassination of poets, ethnic clensing, a list of what to the Culture of Great Britain are nothing but vicious crimes of the most repugnant and regrettable kinds. If fundamentalist Hindus tried to resurrect the practice of satee, the immolation of a widow on her dead husband’s cremation pyre, in Britain, would the British People be engaged in a racism if they, “You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.” General Napier, The Only ethnic minorities with any inherent rights in Great Britain are Gaels and the Welsh. What has you confused, slapping a racist label on anything that critiques or is critical of ethnic minority cultural practices is that it isn’t race based, it’s a newer phenomena, perhaps you could call it culturalist.
      The belief that for Great Britain the indigenous culture and minority groups(Welsh and Gaels)are the only ones with the right to their cultural practice in these Islands, other groups practice their ancestral cultures only at the leave of the Natural cultures of Britain.

    90. The Queen of Fiddlesticks — on 12th July, 2009 at 1:59 am  

      Sunny,
      I hope we are all being open here, cause I have to be honest and say … forgive me … but I find this blog it self to be quite racist most times. I actually don’t even know what “race” means anymore. Everyone seems to have their own definition. The truth is we all live inside our own little worlds. I for one am so tired, tired of talking, tired of listening … tired tired tired!
      I have learned that people who like to “debate” will do just that …FOREVER!
      Always problems, problems, problems and no solutions to anything…. and for some dumb reason people never seem to realize things are always already changing … always, in every way.
      If you want to talk about the BNP, indeed you should…it’s just what you talk about I can’t understand.
      If I need say it again …personally I stand now and forever dead center in everything …which means I at least try to understand everyone’s point of view in everything, including politics.
      call me brain washed, but as an American I do believe “we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal ..etc”

      BUT … when you are talking about immigration and what not pertaining to England and all this BNP what ever … was there a post and discussion about reality? and how everything is NOT always about race, and Nazis …? I mean Great Britain is an Island, how many people can fit on it? and look at the problems in England alone …
      I picked this link cause I know how much everyone hates wiki…

      http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/population.html

      TOOO many people!! of coarse there are gonna be problems! and tension .. I wish we lived in a world we could all just be free and everyone could go where they “wanted” and be happy .. but we don’t right now. and I’d say that may be one of the reasons right there…. why do people immigrate?
      The biggest solution to everything would be to fix the reasons people leave where they are from, and I’m sorry but I do not see the “left” offering many solutions to those problems.
      who to blame for it all? the media, …for being more concerned with profit than actual well balanced information? …
      The people who read and watch ..then debate endlessly ….? Egotistical journalists?
      I used to think I knew the truth … about something … but I really don’t .. because there are a million truths … and either they all matter or none of them do, I can’t decide.

    91. The Queen of Fiddlesticks — on 12th July, 2009 at 4:51 am  

      sunny and who ever else,
      I’m just gonna leave this comment here in this thread ..
      I have just spent hours reading all over this blog, in the posts and comments, including the “about us” link your very mission statement says

      “We, as modern Asian Britons, are fighting a metaphorical war on two fronts.”

      What if you replace that with “modern white Britons” fighting that same war?
      It would probably be linked as a racist BNP supporting site …
      can you come up with nothing else against them than racism? really if you read their web site policies ..and compare with the other parties … the only thing that changes is the wording .
      How is it you know nothing of karma?
      There are many concerns with the BNP, including just the concept of a nationalist party … why do you seem to be so focused on just the immigration parts?
      In no way am I defending or supporting anyone, but you put a lot of thought and effort into asking all those questions …
      I have some for you now…. not to prove anything or even argue ..but just to understand

      1. Why wouldn’t there be some positive aspects to offering people an incentive to return “home” …?
      I literally know hundreds of immigrants from all over the world. I have asked them all why they came, how they did it, what their experience has been, if they like it or not, what they learned - good and bad …. a million questions .. believe it or not some are not happy here … I wonder if there was a program set up for them if they would return? Actually there is a trend now of return already ..and it is not because of anything racial, but they are taking back what they have gained and learned to better their own homes and countries. That is great!!

      everything is all in how you chose to think about it … for fun, just think, instead of fighting the BNP ..you all joined and became supporters .. now that would really change things!

      2. Always always, I see it said, people should be able to choose how they live. What exactly does that mean, and to whom does it apply? Is there some “white British” manifesto? If England is as bad as I would gather from reading all this … and only getting worse …. I recommend you get out quickly!
      though I’m positive it is not as bad as all that.
      I saw a link to some hope not fear group … do they have a blog? cause I think this one is the fear and no hope group …

      3. There is plenty of “Asian” and “racial” diversity on here, but aside form the “pickled”, and endless political debate …. where is the “British” exactly?
      Is there nothing of British culture you identify with and honor? Lots of protests, and plans for revolution … where is the balance? Who are you really and what is it you want, cause I can’t figure that part out … the pots and kettles look a lot alike here … how do you mock and ridicule things like “BNP babes” … but take offense and get defensive over mock and ridicule? Is that part of a plan? I don’t get it?

      4. how do you justify, in one post using some media piece to accuse various sources of creating “hype” …. and in the next, offer one as evidence for “hype”?
      Like … every story about Muslims extremists and immigrant take over blah blah … they are all lies! but ones of “white” extremist and a rise of BNP blah blah is all truth!

      5. How many times in one life do we have to see this referenced in a blog comment? “Hindus tried to resurrect the practice of satee, the immolation of a widow on her dead husband’s cremation pyre, in Britain, would the British People be engaged in a racism if they, “You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours

    92. The Queen of Fiddlesticks — on 12th July, 2009 at 5:34 am  

      WOW! …3 comments on once..shame on me!
      It’s that riz MC video set me off I think …
      Call me naive, call me stupid, call me idealistic …
      I know ugly why I see it! and that video is disgusting hate!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIeLXW6P27U

      sharing with us what he knows
      shining eyes are big and blue
      and all around him water flows
      this world to him is new
      this world to him is new
      to touch a face
      to kiss a smile
      new eyes see no race
      the essence of a child

      he’s born to shimmer, he’s born to shine
      he’s born to radiate
      he’s born to live, he’s born to love
      but we’ll teach him how to hate

      true love it is a rock
      smoothed over by a stream
      no ticking of a clock
      truly measures what that means
      and this thing they call our time
      heard a brilliant woman say
      she said you know it’s crazy
      how I want to try to capture mine
      I think I love this woman’s way
      I think I love this woman’s
      way she shimmers, the way she shines
      the way she radiates
      the way she lives, the way she loves
      the way she never hates
      sometimes I think of all of this that can surround me
      I know it all as being mine
      but she kisses me and wraps herself around me
      she gives me love, she gives me time
      and I feel fine
      I feel fine
      but time I cannot change
      so here’s to looking back
      you know I drink a whole bottle of my pride
      and I toast to change
      to keep these demons off my back
      just get these demons off my back
      cause I want to shimmer, I want to shine
      I want to radiate
      I want to live, I want to love
      I want to try to learn not to hate
      try not to hate
      we’re born to shimmer, we’re born to shine
      we’re born to radiate
      we’re born to live, we’re born to love
      we’re born to never hate

      good luck to all of you and your metaphorical war

    93. chairwoman — on 12th July, 2009 at 8:39 am  

      “Found feminine side: we love Jews and homosexuals (but could only eat 2 at a time).”

      Love it:)

    94. 1mongrel — on 12th July, 2009 at 8:52 am  

      Adnan (88).

      Sounds like The Glass Bead Game to me, still I suppose it’s easier than rebutting or refuting anything. Gandhiji recommended Hard Manual Labour for those afflicted by too much wooliness of thought, I merely offer helpful advice in an attempt to keep them on track.

    95. munir — on 12th July, 2009 at 10:41 am  

      marvin
      “Immigration from the African continent has dramatically increased the number of people with HIV in London. Yet why was there a campaign warning about the risk of HIV infection not too long ago of pictures of white heterosexual chavs from the home counties?!”

      Perhaps Marvin they should have shown a film of a charming big black African man seducing an innocent white girl in a bar. Next morning the girl wakes up to find she has because of her evil miscengation contacted AIDs. Let this be a lesson girls!

      If the NHS wanted to target Africans it would be better off producing things in French or collaborating with their churches. The general message is the same for everyone regardless of colour or partner - that you should wear protection. From a religious point of view the perspective that sex should only be for marriage should be promoted.

    96. Jai — on 12th July, 2009 at 11:11 am  

      Sunny,

      I think you should treat them the same way that you would treat commenters who are members/supporters of, and/or apologists for, Al-Muhajiroun and Al-Qaeda, since their respective psychiatric pathologies and the modus operandi of their respective efforts at proselytisation & self-justification are practically identical.

      ***********************************

      I’ll tell you who the most extreme proponents remind me of: It’s like listening to a bunch of persistent paedophiles and rapists blaming absolutely everyone but themselves for their “condition”, especially the targets of their obsessions (complete with playground-style cries of “Look what you made me do”), and engaging in all manner of self-serving, disingenuous pseudo-intellectual arguments to excuse, rationalise and justify their attitudes & behaviour. The level of Josef Fritzl-style deviousness and mental sickness on display has been truly disgusting.

    97. munir — on 12th July, 2009 at 12:00 pm  

      Jai
      “Sunny,

      I think you should treat them the same way that you would treat commenters who are members/supporters of, and/or apologists for, Al-Muhajiroun and Al-Qaeda, since their respective psychiatric pathologies and the modus operandi of their respective efforts at proselytisation & self-justification are practically identical.”

      Im not aware of there being any supporters of Al-Muhajiroun let alone al-Qaeda on here. Who are you talking about ?

    98. 1mongrel — on 12th July, 2009 at 3:32 pm  

      Jai (96)

      Slurs no longer slurring?

      People just laugh at your isming?

      Try New “Pedopower”

      Puts the mud back into mudslinging.

      Kills all known arguments - Dead.

    99. damon — on 12th July, 2009 at 5:56 pm  

      The Queen of Fiddlesticks: I’d never heard of Shawn Mullins before, but I really liked that.

      to touch a face
      to kiss a smile
      new eyes see no race
      the essence of a child

      to keep these demons off my back
      just get these demons off my back
      cause I want to shimmer, I want to shine
      I want to radiate
      I want to live, I want to love
      I want to try to learn not to hate
      try not to hate

    100. Adnan — on 12th July, 2009 at 9:01 pm  

      1mongrel @94,

      I’ll consider your advice to cure my woolliness of thought, :) .

      BTW, did you previously post as “qidniz” before? The style seems incredibly similar.

    101. Adnan — on 12th July, 2009 at 9:04 pm  

      Chairwoman @93 - much appreciated.

    102. 1mongrel — on 12th July, 2009 at 9:31 pm  

      Adnan (100)

      No, never posted here before. I’m a refugee from CIF(It isn’t), banned for countering the Hardworking Immigrant versus Lazy Chav Canard with style, ease and not a little grace.

    103. Amrit — on 12th July, 2009 at 11:39 pm  

      Adnan - that was beautifully done. Thank you so SO much! :-D

      Dunno about the rest of you, but I’m now operating a strict ‘ignore’ policy regarding our BNP trolls. Why should I waste my time on people who claim to effectively be members of the British Nazi Party? That suggests that they have paid for the privilege of their self-delusions and blame game.

      As Alex Kapranos might say, ‘Nah, you’re alreet.’



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