It was not a personal attack on you by any chance. I like you and even if I do not agree with I respect your views.

Also, I like Obama and I respect the man but that does not mean I have to agree with all his solutions.

I never ever supported torture and I would not as it makes our troops in a far more difficult position. However, why would a President release them I don’t understand. It was common knowledge that waterboarding took place in some instances — why go about it and shout out from the roof tops? But if you do such a thing, why is it wrong for anyone to ask what results did those techniques deliver — So I don’t buy it — It was a political choice and he could have avoided it.

But what Move on did was indefensible. He was not being Bush’s lackey but he was reporting on the surge truthfully and even before the testimony was heard. That was a disgrace and something loony like Limbaugh would do.

Attacking one’s kids is not acceptable in any shape way or form. They should be left out of the circus. That is called being decent.

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Don –

Once I evaluate an issue only then do I make up my mind. I don’t go for the conservative – liberal lables that people like to put on people.

I am conservative on certain issues such as National Security to very liberal on other issues such as gay marriage. So there you go.

I believe in equal opportunity and I don’t like identity politics. So what does that make me Don?

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“And they are pretty much the ideological brothers of people who love to yell “baby killer” at lads on a morning drill… and no I dont go to UC Berkeley either.”

Spot on Vikrant.

When are you being deployed any news on that front?

And they are pretty much the ideological brothers of people who love to yell “baby killer” at lads on a morning drill… and no I dont go to UC Berkeley either.

As far as I know, MoveOn.org has never criticised the troops directly or indirectly. They were against the Iraq War, and the Republicans made it seem that any criticism of the War, was a criticism of the troops.

And they are pretty much the ideological brothers of people who love to yell “baby killer” at lads on a morning drill… and no I dont go to UC Berkeley either.

Exactly, America is perhaps one of the only countrys where abuse towards the troops by a certain group of people is tolerated

MoveOn was not abusing the troops: they were criticising Petraeus for being Bush’s lackey and that should be protected by freedom of speech, the same way as when Cheney says that Powell is not a Republican. Just because you are in the Army doesn’t mean we should just shut up.

Obama isn’t infallible

Only a fool would think otherwise. We are mostly happy that we have a grown-up in the White House for a change.

don’t have time and not interested Ravi.
I know them very well.

I suspect that your characterisation of these organisations stem from the fact that they supported Obama and were critical of Hillary. Oh they are sooo loony. Amazing that you have time to attack DailyKos, but can’t provide a single proof of your claim. That’s call smearing.

I used to write for DailyKos using another nick. I got to know that community quite well – some are more to the Left, others are moderate like myself. Overall, they are pretty decent people, which reminds me of people I meet here. And that includes yourself.

I believe that Shamit means that he isn’t driven by any of the popularly defined ideologies..

Exactly, America is perhaps one of the only countrys where abuse towards the troops by a certain group of people is tolerated. The stunts that Al-Mujahiroun pulled at Luton are common from Stop War Coalition guys. Obama isn’t infallible, plus his Af-Pak policy is pretty incoherent, with US army essentially fighting with its arms tied behind its back.

How does that work? Surely ‘What I believe to be right’ is an ideology. If that defines your ideas, how are you not ideologically driven?

I did not like the way he played politics with national security. Why did he release those waterboarding memos? Which I think has endangered his own troops — and when challenged refused to release the results of those waterboarding incidents? I am not for waterboarding but why would a president play politics with this?

In my view the commitment of not torturing prisoners, to prosecute the lawyers who made torture legal, and the release of memos showing that the US (read Cheney) was behind the torture chambers is not playing politics, but that’s part of the change he promised in the election. He said he would put an end to torture, and he is delivering it. There is no proof whatsoever that these actions have endangered any troops, and I would expect much to the opposite. Also, torture does not work, and the Army is against it.

I don’t agree with Sarah Palin but when so called LIBERALS start calling her children names and mock them including her downs syndrome baby and that is part of the reason she is leaving office — I think that is disgusting and whether we agree with her or not we should have that much of guts to say that the media overreached and it is uncalled for.

You must be kidding me. She was the first to parade her family and her baby in front of the media circus to collect her pro-life credentials. You might find some deranged individual who have mocked their children, but she has been rightly scrutinised by the media for the appalling politician that she is. We will soon find out what was the reason she left – it is very likely that some scandal will come up that would force her to resign.

No – the media got it right this time.

I know them very well.

On the other hand, I am not an ideologically driven person and my ideas are defined by what I believe to be right.

And Daily Kos and Move on are loony left — just like Hannity is loony right.

Shamit, I will ask again: link one single article from DailyKos written by Kos bloggers that you feel is at the same level as Hannity or Limbaugh. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

Actually, some are pro-waste. Anyone who spends money on vanity projects is pro-waste, while the immense numbers of laws coming from legislatures means that I am not convinced of their ‘freedom’ credentials.

And Daily Kos and Move on are loony left — just like Hannity is loony right.

Move on had no rationale no matter what rationale they bring up.

There is a loony left and Daily KOs do represent that.

It bloody doesn’t – you are now parroting Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly. Mind you, they have a diary section which anyone can write. I do wish you point to any DailyKos article written by the DailyKos bloggers that you find loony. Just one. And here is a picture of the DailyKos founder – not sure that’s the stereotypical left loony…

Which was the group which took a full page ad on the NY times about GENERAL BETRAY US. A professional soldier who on all accounts have served his nation well was deemed a betrayer even before his testimony was heard.

They had a rationale for calling him that.

but Obama terming Bill Clinton racist is bullshit and would always be so to me. And it had a lot to do with the S. Carolina primary mate. You can accuse Clinton of many things but Bill Clinton racist is just a load of BULL.

The Clintons are not racists, but it is very clear they did want to frame Obama as the black candidate, by comparing him to the idealist Martin Luther King, the loser Jesse Jackson, and bringing up the explicit “hard-working white men” in the most racist parts of the US.

Anyway, the election is over. And I think there is a consensus even among those that were uneasy about him that he is a decent President, and very few miss McCain, Palin or even Bush. And he started in January 2009.

Oh, come on, Rumbold. Some people may be pro-spending which you see as wasteful, but I doubt anybody is actually pro-waste. As for anti-personal freedom, we all accept limits to personal freedom but to call someone anti-freedom is to place them at a bug-eyed extreme of the spectrum.

I am the last person to support taxpayer-funded bailouts. And I think that the GM bailout was wrong too. But look at the American political scene at the moment; how many senior political figures are trying to hold back the tide of spending- how many tried to do so during Bush’s time (McCain and a few others did).

Obama is in a very difficult position, as reform/creative destruction benefits America in the long term, but saving jobs benefits him in the short term. As I said, his response to the financial crisis has been poor, but it isn’t his mess, so we shouldn’t be too hard on him. As for other reforms, you have to take into account that there is a Democratic-controlled Congress, which is pro-statist, anti-personal freedom and pro-wasteful spending, with a Republican Rump that grows ever more rabid.

I am glad he released the waterboarding memos. They needed to be aired. I don’t agree that it was ‘playing politics’ either. These memos helped to highlight a policy that was destroying one of the fundamental principles of America- the ones playing poltiics were the Republicans who accused anti-torture figures of being soft and pro-terrorist.

The circus should leave the children out of it.

I don’t actually read the newspapers much so am not picking up the negative side of the debate. I really don’t think she was going to make a dent in politics – and the choice to use her in that role was posturing and gesturing which failed. She’s not to blame – and the personal side to the attacks on her are unacceptable.

“I would not define my political views as conservative — but I would define myself as centrist and most of my political beliefs would be most likely termed left if not centre-left.”

Sorry – i meant to say say relative to my own views not to imply you were an arch con neo! I find myself on the left of Guardian readers a lot of the time – and not quite to the right of Telegraph readers so this leaves me nowhere.

Quite dislocated which if I am not mistaken is what might be a feminist position.