I’m speaking at City Circle on the BNP, Friday


by Sunny
22nd June, 2009 at 11:54 am    

Well, the title is self-explanatory. Here is the blurb:

—-
The BNP – How should we deal with them?

A Panel Discussion with:
Fiyaz Mughal, Salma Yaqoob, and Sunny Hundal
on: Friday 26th June 2009, 6.45pm – 8.30pm
at: 45 Crawford Place, London W1H 4LP

The recent election of two BNP members to the European parliament has brought to the fore concerns around the rise of far-right extremism in the UK. How should this challenge be confronted? We will debate the following questions: How significant – in numerical and symbolic terms – was the BNP victory?; Why are people voting for them?; Do they exploit genuine grievances and, if so, what are they?; Why are mainstream parties failing to stem the BNP vote?; How should mainstream civil society deal with extremist politics: do we ignore, ridicule or debate them?; And if we need to challenge them, how do we do so without legitimising or giving their cause greater publicity?

Our panellists are:

Fiyaz Mughal OBE is a Liberal Democrat Councillor in Haringey and was previously a Councillor in Oxford. He has been deputy president of the Liberal Democrats. He is director of Faith Matters, a not for profit organisation working to reduce tensions between Muslim, Sikh and Jewish communities.

Salma Yaqoob is a founder member of Respect and head of Birmingham Stop the War Coalition. She is a Birmingham City Councillor and spokesperson for Birmingham Central Mosque. She is regularly asked to comment on the national debate, such as appearances on BBC Question Time.

Sunny Hundal is editor of Liberal Conspiracy, a group blog involved in online campaigning and discussion. He also blogs at Pickled Politics. A regular commentator in the mainstream press, he founded New Generation Network, which aims to challenge the thinking around race and faith politics.

All Welcome. Free Entrance.
———-

I really like the City Circle lot, so this should be interesting. I’ll be trying my best not to play to the crowd and instead take up things with Salma Yaqoob, the Respect train-crash, and the future of identity politics. Come down!


              Post to del.icio.us


Filed in: Events






58 Comments below   |  

Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. pickles

    New blog post: I’m speaking at City Circle on the BNP, Friday http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/4925


  2. Naadir Jeewa

    I’m speaking at City Circle on the BNP, Friday: Well, the title is self-explanatory. Here is the blurb:
    —-
    The B.. http://tinyurl.com/m9asqr


  3. Leon Green

    RT @pickledpolitics New blog post: I’m speaking at City Circle on the BNP, Friday: http://bit.ly/8FOEw


  4. Pickled Politics » The big showdown is tonight

    [...] and Sunny Hundal on: Friday 26th June 2009, 6.45pm – 8.30pm at: 45 Crawford Place, London W1H 4LP More details here.   |   Trackback link   |   Add to del.icio.us   |   function [...]


  5. Yahya Birt is not happy with this attack… « Talk Islam

    [...] Yahya Birt is not happy with this attack on The City Circle.   [...]


  6. Yahya Birt is not happy with this attack… | Marriage Blog

    [...] Yahya Birt is not happy with this attack on The City Circle. [...]




  1. Ravi Naik — on 22nd June, 2009 at 11:57 am  

    Please: no egg throwing as a tactic. Or I will be there with an egg with your name on it. :)

  2. Kismet Hardy — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:10 pm  

    How about just ignoring them? I’ve heard more about the BNP from people complaining about them than they could manage with a all of Griffin’s pie fund put in their PR machine. They must be shoving eggs up their arses in glee

  3. hantsboy — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:18 pm  

    I think you have to understand that there are certain tides in history that can’t be resisted.
    The anti colonial independence movements in the former European colonies was one such. Just as I believe is the irrecoverable decline in US power and influence.

    The far right parties gaining strength across Europe are another example of history changing direction.
    You might not like it but that’s the way it is .
    Breast beating and navel gazing talk shops like the one mentioned won’t make a damn bit of difference.

  4. cjcjc — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:22 pm  

    I was going to say shortly to be followed by

    Respect – how should we deal with them?

    But as they have collapsed it doesn’t matter now.

  5. Sally — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:26 pm  

    That’s great, why not set up a whole roadshow around the UK. They’ll love the publicity and all for free!!!

  6. asquith — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:29 pm  

    Don’t talk such shite, hantsboy. It didn’t happen in the 30s or the 70s & isn’t going to happen now.

  7. Colin Brown — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:37 pm  

    Shouldn’t someone at least try and contact Simon Darby offering him the opportunity to send a BNP representative to this gathering in the interest of having a balanced debate?

    You’ll still out number the BNP 5-1. There’s little to be frightened of. I was brought up understanding that it was rude to talk about others behind their back.

    Do you not share the same values?

  8. munir — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:41 pm  

    Colin Brown
    “Shouldn’t someone at least try and contact Simon Darby offering him the opportunity to send a BNP representative to this gathering in the interest of having a balanced debate?”

    It isnt a debate though- its about how to deal with neo-nazi scum

    “You’ll still out number the BNP 5-1. There’s little to be frightened of. I was brought up understanding that it was rude to talk about others behind their back.”

    but not that discriminating, exterminating and expelling people because they are a different skin colour is rude

    “Do you not share the same values?”

    No. None of the panellist are racist scumbags

    And given the BNP doesnt allow non white people into its party why exactly are you demanding representation here?

  9. Shamit — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:43 pm  

    For once I think Colin has a point.

    Why not invite a BNP representative – the arguments that they come up with are usually very easily refuted.

  10. munir — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:55 pm  

    “Why not invite a BNP representative – the arguments that they come up with are usually very easily refuted.”

    Perhaps the danger is that the issue at hand would be sidetracked. Its a bit like having a session on “how do we deal with the drugs problem” and inviting a crack cocaine dealer.

    I doubt anyone in the audience would be a BNP supporter anyway (City Circle is a Muslim organisation) so any drubbing the BNP rep would get wouldnt change anyones mind. Likewise the BNP rep wouldnt be looking for recruits amongst an overwhelmingly non white audience . At the very best it might make him/her reconsider their views but even that is doubtful.

  11. Colin Brown — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:56 pm  

    Munir.

    I’m not demanding anything. I thought you’d relish the opportunity of debating a BNP representative into the ground. Clearly you don’t view us a threat. So what’s the risk?

  12. Naadir Jeewa — on 22nd June, 2009 at 12:59 pm  

    I’ll be there.

    But seriously, no eggs?! What about shoes?

  13. Leon — on 22nd June, 2009 at 1:13 pm  

    I’ll be trying my best not to play to the crowd and instead take up things with Salma Yaqoob, the Respect train-crash, and the future of identity politics.

    That should be fun, she is a formidable opponent. I might make it along to this as it’s not too far out of the way for me…

  14. Boyo — on 22nd June, 2009 at 1:31 pm  

    I don’t think it’s about dealing with the BNP – they are symptom, not the disease. It’s extremely convenient for the far-left to have them – they are convenient bogeymen who serve to delegitimise reasonable debate about our society and culture. Perhaps the title should really be: If the BNP didn’t exist, would we have to invent them?

  15. bananabrain — on 22nd June, 2009 at 1:35 pm  

    perhaps, sunny, you should take the opportunity to find out some more about the city circle’s associaton with this “international institute of islamic thought” organisation, which is, i understand, backed by the saudis. i’d certainly like to hear what you find out. faisal’s lot over at the spittoon have an interesting article on it:

    http://www.spittoon.org/archives/1214

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  16. comrade — on 22nd June, 2009 at 1:58 pm  

    I’ll be trying my best not to play to the crowd and instead take up things with Salma Yaqoob, the Respect train-crash, and the future of identity politics.

    Be warned, she’s a very oppotunitic politician. She’ll probaly blame the Socialist labour Party and NO-to EU for the selection of two BNP candiates to the EU

    Boyo, I totally agree with you, the question I like anwered is: What is facism, and which forces brought Hitler to Power. The BNP spent 11 million on its campaign, who are their sponsers? I believe the bigger threat lies some where else, which no-one is willing expose or bring into debate.

  17. Yahya Birt — on 22nd June, 2009 at 2:16 pm  

    Re: Bananabrain @ 15

    Yes, Sunny, remember that seventies sci-fi classic Invasion of the Body Snatchers with Jeff Goldblum? There may be more to these “seeming” moderates than meets the eye behind the suits and smiles!

    Be careful: they might turn you into one of THEM!

    That Spittoon article on City Circle was aboslute codswallop from beginning to end, as it was about Dr Anas from IIIT. Neither carries a torch for Islamism, and City Circle supports robust and respectful dialogue with anyone as a non-publicly-funded civil society organisation.

    For the record, I speak as a CC Trustee here.

  18. hantsboy — on 22nd June, 2009 at 2:27 pm  

    Don’t talk such shite, hantsboy. It didn’t happen in the 30s or the 70s & isn’t going to happen now.

    Asquith

    Well that’s true enough -after millions of dead and a resurgent US economy had sorted things out in the 1940s .The 1970s don’t even compare.

    No it didn’t happen.
    But Uncle Sam is a decadent wasted power compared to the 1940s. The Red Army no longer exists.
    Who is going to help this time ?
    Talking shops don’t work.

    History is turning once again.

  19. Dani — on 22nd June, 2009 at 2:28 pm  

    “I’ll be there.

    But seriously, no eggs?! What about shoes?”

    Or shoes….made out of eggs!

    …I’ll get my coat. -_-

  20. Yahya Birt — on 22nd June, 2009 at 2:33 pm  

    Comrade:

    Do you have any sources on who funded the BNP’s 11 mill?

  21. bananabrain — on 22nd June, 2009 at 2:57 pm  

    @yahya:

    That Spittoon article on City Circle was absolute codswallop from beginning to end

    well, if that’s the case, i’m relieved, i’ve always liked city circle but in my experience of salma yaqoob, she is not known for keeping company with sensible people. and i’ve never heard anything but good stuff about fiyaz mughal. you should say that in the comments over there if so.

    as it was about Dr Anas from IIIT.

    he was only mentioned in one of the comments, wasn’t he? not sure i totally understand this.

    Neither carries a torch for Islamism, and City Circle supports robust and respectful dialogue with anyone as a non-publicly-funded civil society organisation.

    yes, but what the support mean in practice? are they involved in any ongoing dialogue? without giving too much away, i tried to get something off the ground with them a couple of years ago in the jewish-muslim dialogue arena. it died because basically the decision-makers didn’t think it was a priority for them to get involved. i’d like to get involved. however, their policy of running events on friday evening makes that impossible for me as a jewish person.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  22. Colin Brown — on 22nd June, 2009 at 2:58 pm  

    @ Comrade:

    Do you have any sources on who funded the BNP’s 11 mill?

    I do.

  23. munir — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:03 pm  

    bananabrain

    “i’d like to get involved. however, their policy of running events on friday evening makes that impossible for me as a jewish person.”

    You sound like an extremist.

    Do you wear a kippeh? You dont even as Rabia Malik does “give(s) every appearance of being an ordinary, reasonable and tolerant person” (as the disgraceful spitoon article you linked to puts it- because she doesnt wear hijab e.g a woman in hijab is ipso facto not ordinary, reasonable and tolerant)

  24. chairwoman — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:09 pm  

    Munir – Why does he sound like an extremist? He lives 9 miles from central London, that would be a hell of walk each way.

  25. cjcjc — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:13 pm  

    I wonder whether Munir is familiar with the concept of “pot calling kettle”…?!!

  26. bananabrain — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:17 pm  

    yes, munir/blah, i expect anyone who doesn’t actually froth at the mouth sounds like an “extremist” to you.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  27. munir — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:36 pm  

    chairwoman
    “Munir – Why does he sound like an extremist? He lives 9 miles from central London, that would be a hell of walk each way.”

    bananabrain
    “yes, munir/blah, i expect anyone who doesn’t actually froth at the mouth sounds like an “extremist” to you.”

    Because he practicises his religion. The noxious article on spitton he linked to implied Rabia Malik was not an extremist but an ordinary person because she doesnt follow the command of wearing hijab. So basically in BB’s worldwide a woman in hijab is an extremist. So therefore he a Jew who observes the sabbath is by his own definition, an extremist.

  28. Yahya Birt — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:40 pm  

    bananabrain @ 21

    Even if I don’t always agree with her political analysis, I think Salma has real personal integrity which is widely recognised in the Muslim community (beyond her political affiliations) and, in my personal view, the causes she has pursued would have been better served by working outside of Respect. Two examples, among others, spring to mind: as a role model for Muslim women to get involved in activism and politics and her strong stand against the influence of biradiri (clan) politics in Birmingham and its influence on party politics in the city.

    Dr Anas runs IIIT in the UK, I’ve known him for years and he’s a totally legit guy. It really annoys me that a good person like this is being smeared by anonymous posters. I try to judge individuals not labels. All the speakers that IIIT-UK offered to CC in the last year or so are on the forward thinking side of the community, and their contributions on the contested issue of Islam and politics have been critical and open-minded. As an open platform, we are committed to putting all ideas under challenge, and to attempt over each calender year to provide some breadth in variety of topics covered and the number of partner organisations/individuals featured. We don’t always get it right, but — while we are always open to criticism — we reject inneundo and smears.

    I haven’t looked into about the rest of the accusations made of IIIT worldwide so am not qualified to comment on them. I get the IIIT quarterly journal still and it is run in a completely open house style, for instance, most of the liberal and progressive Muslim academics in the US now feature in its pages.

    If Faisal over at Spittoon were to offer a right of reply I might consider that.

    At CC we’ve with various Jewish community organisations over the years, and we remain open and committed to that. CC is more set up to handle debates/cultural events or grassroots projects rather than intensive or prolonged dialogue, but that’s a structural rather than a political issue as such.

    The Friday nights were something we started out with at the beginning and it has just become a tradition: our regular audience now expects it to fall on a Friday night. But we have moved events to earlier in the week when Sabbath observence has been a consideration for any of our speakers, so Friday nights aren’t sacrosanct.

  29. London Muslim — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:45 pm  

    lloks interesting. Will try to make it God willing

  30. bananabrain — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:47 pm  

    The noxious article on spitton he linked to implied Rabia Malik was not an extremist but an ordinary person because she doesnt follow the command of wearing hijab.

    yes, that’s exactly what it didn’t. you sad, sad, person.

    So basically in BB’s worldwide a woman in hijab is an extremist. So therefore he a Jew who observes the sabbath is by his own definition, an extremist.

    even for you, munir/blah, agreeing with my mother is a pretty low blow.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  31. London Muslim — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:48 pm  

    looks interesting. Will try to make it God willing

  32. munir — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:51 pm  

    bananabrain
    “yes, that’s exactly what it didn’t. you sad, sad, person”

    Here your article again

    and note that her apperance (eg non hijab) was emphaised- it was linked to

    Rabia Malik, the head of City Circle, gives every appearance of being an ordinary, reasonable and tolerant person.
    http://www.spittoon.org/archives/1214

    “even for you, munir/blah, agreeing with my mother is a pretty low blow.”

    At least shes consistent. In your worldview a Muslim woman is an extremist for practicisng her religion (hijab) but you arent for practising yours (the Sabbath)

  33. bananabrain — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:55 pm  

    @yahya:

    It really annoys me that a good person like this is being smeared by anonymous posters.

    well, fair play if you post under your own name, i don’t for various reasons but nonetheless i would have thought a good question is a good question no matter where it comes from. i for one am much happier having had this aired publically and (at least to my satisfaction) debated in good faith.

    If Faisal over at Spittoon were to offer a right of reply I might consider that.

    well, i’ve pointed your comments out there, he can make his own mind up of course!

    At CC we’ve with various Jewish community organisations over the years, and we remain open and committed to that. CC is more set up to handle debates/cultural events or grassroots projects rather than intensive or prolonged dialogue, but that’s a structural rather than a political issue as such.

    well, i was looking at a fairly decent grassroots project and it seemed like it was all push from my direction. it’s not, by the way, obvious from the website what grassroots dialogue projects if any are occurring with the jewish community, although the past jewish speakers are people i know, in several cases very well personally. if there were a chance to get something like this going again i should welcome it, so perhaps you and i should take it offline and talk in real life.

    The Friday nights were something we started out with at the beginning and it has just become a tradition: our regular audience now expects it to fall on a Friday night. But we have moved events to earlier in the week when Sabbath observence has been a consideration for any of our speakers, so Friday nights aren’t sacrosanct.

    goodoh, i would hope that were the case.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  34. Leon — on 22nd June, 2009 at 3:56 pm  

    You sound like an extremist.

    Cut it out, you know full well he’s talking about religious observance.

  35. Yahya Birt — on 22nd June, 2009 at 4:01 pm  

    bananabrain @ 35

    on interfaith-related work with CC do contact Usama Hasan through its website, otherwise for anything else do contact me through my personal website.

    Best, Yahya

  36. bananabrain — on 22nd June, 2009 at 4:01 pm  

    leon, don’t bother with the guy. he’s deliberately misunderstanding things i didn’t say.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  37. bananabrain — on 22nd June, 2009 at 4:03 pm  

    thanks yahya, i’ll be in touch.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  38. Sgt Twining — on 22nd June, 2009 at 5:45 pm  

    We have to challenge thier legitimacy. That is at the core. Can I say that?

  39. Faisal (The Spittoon) — on 22nd June, 2009 at 5:55 pm  

    If Faisal over at Spittoon were to offer a right of reply I might consider that.

    You seem to be giving the impression on here that you don’t have right of reply Yahya. But you know you have my email and my phone number! So it might be more effective feedback for you to contact me directly rather than leave comments on the Spittoon article on the City Circle on a completely different blog, which I would not have known anything about unless Bananabrain had alerted me.

  40. Rush Greener — on 22nd June, 2009 at 7:01 pm  

    I notice this panel is constituted with a view to finding a strategy to counter the BNP, a far-right extremist organisation. I wonder, do panelists like Salma Yaqoob agree with interfaith marriage, such as between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man? If they don’t, what legitimacy does this confer on the solutions devised by such a panel? Does the end justify the means and the participants? After all, opposition to marriage between Sikhs, Hindus, Jews and Muslims and members of other faiths is generally a relgiocultural pretense for racism. Can racists pursue anti-racist politics?

  41. Sunny — on 22nd June, 2009 at 10:38 pm  

    Oh dear – perhaps you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the blogs eh bananabrain?

    To try and smear CC as extremist really is the pits. It’s more FrontPageMagazine than anything else.

    Anyway.

    For once I think Colin has a point.

    Why not invite a BNP representative – the arguments that they come up with are usually very easily refuted.

    My aim is not to come to some sort of an agreement or try and find common ground with the BNP. My aim is to destroy them. To de-legitimise them.

    So having them on the platform is not only to legitimise them, but detracts from the main discussion – how do we tackle and destroy them.

  42. blah — on 22nd June, 2009 at 10:53 pm  

    Rush Greener
    “After all, opposition to marriage between Sikhs, Hindus, Jews and Muslims and members of other faiths is generally a relgiocultural pretense for racism”

    You’re an idiot

  43. Shamit — on 22nd June, 2009 at 11:47 pm  

    Sunny

    I get your point.

    To destroy BNP it needs to be delegitimised – I agree. Unless we debate them and show them up for who they really are to the existing and potential BNP voters – Isn’t there a chance of lionising them? And how do you tackle that?

    I am not challenging you – I genuinely would like to know.

  44. Faisal (The Spittoon) — on 23rd June, 2009 at 12:32 am  

    Oh dear – perhaps you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the blogs eh bananabrain?

    To try and smear CC as extremist really is the pits. It’s more FrontPageMagazine than anything else.

    You certainly shouldn’t read everything you believe in blogs but you should certainly regard them as a useful place to host a range of views and initiate debate and countenance views that go contrary to received thinking. That’s what the comments threads are all about. But first, a point on your cognitive dissonance. To point out examples of entryism by extremist elements in otherwise well-respescted muslim organisations is not calling the entire organisation extremist. But it is a vital part of keeping these organisations accountable and vigilant in maintaining that accountability.

    To automatically call the article a “smear” is devaluing the sentiment the post was written in and a lazy way of shutting down debate and discussion. This is tragic coming from a champion of free speech such as yourself.

  45. Faisal (The Spittoon) — on 23rd June, 2009 at 12:33 am  

    Oh dear – perhaps you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the blogs eh bananabrain?

    To try and smear CC as extremist really is the pits. It’s more FrontPageMagazine than anything else.

    You certainly shouldn’t read everything you believe in blogs but you should certainly regard them as a useful place to host a range of views and initiate debate and countenance views that go contrary to received thinking. That’s what the comments threads are all about. But first, a point on your cognitive dissonance. To point out examples of entryism by extremist elements in otherwise well-respescted muslim organisations is not calling the entire organisation extremist. But it is a vital part of keeping these organisations accountable and vigilant in maintaining that accountability.

    To automatically call the article a “smear” is devaluing the sentiment the post was written in and a lazy way of shutting down debate and discussion. This is tragic coming from a champion of free speech such as yourself.

  46. Naadir Jeewa — on 23rd June, 2009 at 12:53 am  

    Don’t really understand where all this we need to debate the BNP right now thing comes from?

    Consider Friday to be the organising meeting before the debate.

  47. Sunny — on 23rd June, 2009 at 1:18 am  

    Faisal – calling something a bad smear is not really shutting down debate. You’re welcome to host such terrible smears if you want to. I thought it was a pretty lame article. But you know, we all write crap sometimes, including me. Doesn’t make me an opponent of free speech. You’re conflating different issues.

  48. billericaydicky — on 23rd June, 2009 at 7:37 am  

    It never fails to amaze me how people who, as far as I know, have never done anything to actually counter the BNP are now having a conference to decide on the tactics to combat a movement about which they know nothing.

    The do nothings of UAF are now going to have a conference in Manchester to find out what went wrong. Mind you theyalways have a conference about eight weeks before major elections to decide on the strategy to stop the BNP. That turns out to be a pop concert four days before the election.

    The strategy and tactics for containing the BNP have already been worked out and put into place in the Hope Not Hate campaign devised by Searchlight working with the Daily Mirror and the TUC as well as faith groups and all the political parties.

    About six years ago a core group started to look at where the BNP was going and devised tactics to counter them. It was recognised that the tactics of fighting fascists on the streets were not going to work because Griffin and the others had moved off the streets into the housing estates.

    We had to change tactics to counter them and it was recognised that the old ANL tactics of waving lollypops and shouting ” Nazi scum off our streets” were 70s tactics and weren’t even very effective then as I recall.

    It was also recognised that instead of reacting to an election where the BNP were standing we now faced an ongoing campaign. To that end there are now somewhere in the region of sixty or so local groups around the country each based in their communities and able to respond to what the BNP are doing in any given area.

    All BNP activity is monitored and countered be it false claims about asylum seekers, letters to local papers, attempts by BNP members to get themselves onto local community groups or whatever.

    Come elections the movement goes into top gear which anything up to three and a half million tabloid newspapers and leaflets being distributed around the country in the weeks before the European elections.

    Had it not been for this we would be facing hundreds of local councillors, three on the Greater Lodon Authority and as many as six in Europe. What we have is a very successful strategy of containment. More needs to be done but we are not facing meltdown so don’t panic.

    What is not being looked at is why white people are voting BNP. There are very legitimate concerns about many things that the mainstream politicians have ignored for too long and which have only been addressed by the far right.

    Asylum and immigration, the perceived, and in many cases real, discrimination against white people by the race industry in terms of employment. The demands for all black short lists in every sphere of public life and the funding of non existent groups by Lee Jasper with public money certainly anger ordinary white people.

    What it seems is going to happen on Friday is an attempt to reinvent the wheel by people who no nothing about the subject. Do not despair, I will be there to enlighten you all.

  49. Naadir Jeewa — on 23rd June, 2009 at 7:42 am  

    @49. I don’t think the good work of Hope Not Hate and Searchlight is in dispute.

    I should hope that Friday’s meeting will address the issue of the failures of the mainstream politics.

  50. bananabrain — on 23rd June, 2009 at 8:08 am  

    sunny and faisal:

    1. i was not “believing everything i saw written in blogs” – i saw something i found troubling and i asked for clarification, because i suspected there was more to it than met the eye. although i have had some clarification, i will need to go a little deeper before i am totally satisfied, but that is unlikely to happen in this environment.
    2. i am not trying to “smear” anyone. i am trying to dig below the chatter and build some insight into what is actually going on. i don’t know any of you (including yahya) terribly well, but i would like to think that everyone is engaging honestly and in good faith and for them to think the same as me.
    3. i am really not terribly interested in meaningless political posturing and the narcissism of minor differences, like the one between harry’s place and here. i would be quite disappointed if PP and the spittoon ended up sniping at each other continuously.

    if one is intending to make one’s living from talking and writing, i would suggest that lazy debating tactics are not the way to go. insightful commentary is not compatible with a doctrinaire attachment to one’s own “side”.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  51. Faisal (The Spittoon) — on 23rd June, 2009 at 8:33 am  

    Faisal – calling something a bad smear is not really shutting down debate. You’re welcome to host such terrible smears if you want to. I thought it was a pretty lame article. But you know, we all write crap sometimes, including me. Doesn’t make me an opponent of free speech. You’re conflating different issues.

    On your use of the word “smear” again, I reiterate, it is not a smear to argue that the IIIT has fallen victim to extremist entryism.

    You’re a journalist and you know the value of words. So I presume you know there is a difference between calling something a “smear” and thinking it a “pretty lame article”. The article made certain assertions, before you brandish the word “smear” you would, at the very least, invest in a modicum of factual refutal of those assertions, something you haven’t done. All you seem to be interested in closing down discussion.

    By attempting to shut down debate in this manner, you’re preventing meaningful discussion and insightful debate on these issues. That is why we “host” these ideas on the Spittoon.

    And what bananabrain said, entirely.

  52. billericaydicky — on 26th June, 2009 at 8:21 am  

    I’m spoiled for choice tonight. Galloway and the usual suspects are in the Bishopsgate Institute defending the bhurka. It seems Stop The War have decided to launch a new campaign. If the SWP are involved in it then it should die an early death.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

Pickled Politics © Copyright 2005 - 2010. All rights reserved. Terms and conditions.
With the help of PHP and Wordpress.