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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Wings of the BNP


    by Rumbold on 10th June, 2009 at 9:36 am    

    There has been a lot of debate recently about whether the BNP is a far-left, or a far-right party. While this is an intellectually interesting question, I really don’t see the practical point of this debate (something which Anton Vowl sums up very well). The BNP has policies which can be classed as left-wing, and policies which can be classed as right-wing.

    What we need to do is identify the non-racist issues that the BNP are using to woo voters, and get the other parties to deal with them (such as better provision of English language teaching in schools for children who don’t speak English). This will leave the BNP as little more than a racist rump, thus depriving them of plenty of votes, while their remaining supporters can be identified as racists without worrying about marginalising ‘protest voters’.

    What is heartening though is that everyone is scrambling to classify the BNP as far away from themselves as possible.



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    64 Comments below   |   Add your own

    1. Steve Baker — on 10th June, 2009 at 9:56 am  

      That´s a ridiculous assumption. What non racist issues? The BNP are the only party willing to discuss immigration and give a clear outline of what they will do about it. That IS what they won votes on.

      As usual the major parties are swimming in the river of denial…. serves you all right if they become even more powerful.

      People don´t want continuous immigration and most of them are concerned about the spread of Islamic crap all over the UK.

    2. platinum786 — on 10th June, 2009 at 9:56 am  

      They do have popular policy points don’t they?

      For example they bang on about immigrants and the lack of English they speak. Well the government has I think put in place a programme that you must know some English to come to england and then must know it to a certain level to become a British citizen. Why don’t they make a point of making people aware of that?

      Also another i heard about was the BNP being anti speed camera. Everyone is anti speed camera, which mainstream political party has picked up this sentiment? Who has thought about the feasability of increasing the speed limit on motorways by 10mph?

    3. platinum786 — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:00 am  

      Look face facts, there is nothing you can do about immigration, BNP supporter. You guys might get at the best a handful of MP’s, but we’ll have more immigrant MP’s than we’ll ever have BNP immigrants. Learn to love curry, we’re planning on replacing Turkey at Christmas with it.

    4. Rumbold — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:14 am  

      Steve Baker:

      Hang on, if all you care about is immigration, rather than non-whites, then what’s wrong with UKIP? They pledged to halt immigration for five years.

      Platinum786:

      If you ever tried to replace turkey with curry, I’d vote BNP. Heh.

    5. chairwoman — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:20 am  

      Learn to love curry, we’re planning on replacing Turkey at Christmas with it.

      I am aware that you have no respect for my opinions, Platinum, but jokes like this have a tendency to misfire. before you know it, the press will pick it up, there will be headlines shouting ‘Muslims plot to replace Christmas turkey with curry’. And more idiots will be voting Griffin!

    6. Refresh — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:31 am  

      Spot on Chairwoman. The possibility has already turned Rumbold.

      Says a lot about the press and the agenda running in certain sections of it.

    7. Shamit — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:31 am  

      A tasteless bird has so much influence who would have thought?

      Considering the crap that BNP trolls have been filling these pages with I think Platinum’s joke is far better and actually funny. So what’s the problem? Those idiots who want to use and publish this are stupid to say the least and that is being very very polite.

      And, I don’t think we should have to worry about what the bigots think before we open our mouth. PC culture gone madddddddddd when we start worrying about how this might affect BNP.

    8. Adnan — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:32 am  

      Get with the program - it’s Winterval.

      Aren’t the BNP pro-Capital punishment ?

      That’s a “non-racist” policy.

    9. Yahya Birt — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:38 am  

      We know that Euro elections have lower turnouts given the political distance national electorates have with the European parliament, and that they serve, like local elections do, as barometers of discontent with national politics. OK, so we know that the Labour vote collapsed, and that is the big reason why the BNP’s share increased. The total number of BNP voters decreased compared with the 2004 Euro elections, but largely they still held their share of the vote.

      The real question remains however as to why the BNP vote, I think it was just under a million around the country, largely held up and didn’t collapse either. I would like to know who has switched their votes to the BNP and why, alongside other things like age, gender and class. What parts of the BNP platform caused this switch around about 2003/4? Where is its support base coming from — traditional Labour voters or disgruntled Consrvative voters? I would ask similar questions of UKIP’s voter base too. Anti-immigration politics probably crosses the political spectrum in any case. Also there is an element of national socialism in the BNP’s platform with respect to economic issues, state-intervention on jobs and housing for “British” workers. Understanding the BNP’s appeal and how it has built up its base and where will do more to help us understand and deal with this alarming development rather than the quite understandable urge to put as much distance as possible between one’s own political party and the BNP.

      So if anyone has any answers/useful links, I’d be grateful.

      Kind regards, Yahya

    10. Shamit — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:39 am  

      “…concerned about the spread of Islamic crap all over the UK”

      Are the muslim kids terrorising residents in parts of London and mugging them? No.

      Are the muslim kids giving birth to kids when they are kids themselves and this often spans generations? NO.

      *******************************************

      What makes Steve think that most British Asians want open immigration policy?

      Considering most British Asians are taxpayers (percentage wise British Asians are among the highest) — we do worry about where are out tax pounds are going.

      British Asians parents take responsibility for their kids (irrespective of their economic condition) — wouldn’t be nice if others did that too? May be we would have a better society.

      Steve - before you open your stupid mouth — could you tell me what is the percentage of teenage pregnancies in britain and how many are from the Muslim population or the British Asian population at large?

      ****************************************

    11. chairwoman — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:40 am  

      Shamit - I am in my sixties, and I have never seen a National Socialist elected to anything higher than a local authority before, and if it doesn’t perturb you, then it is you who has the problem.

      I personally am no fan of turkey, I got the joke, and I see the dangers.

      In 1930 the German National Socialists were deemed to be no threat and look how that worked out.

      Our futures are often written in our history books. The television series ‘The Nazis, a warning from history’ was more than just a pithy title.

    12. korenwolf — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:48 am  

      The cynic in me says that everyone is trying to place the BNP as close to the opposition as possible rather than far from their own positions.

    13. Yahya Birt — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:50 am  

      One example of the kind of background investigative journalism I’m talking about, which always seems thin on the ground nowadays, was Patrick Barkham’s piece on the collapse of the Labour vote and the BNP’s skilfull targetting of working class anxieties in Stoke.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/28/labour.thefarright

    14. platinum786 — on 10th June, 2009 at 10:52 am  

      I’ve got to use smiley faces more often. You can’t use my comment in a DailyMail story if it has a smiley face next to it.

      The other part of the grand plan is to replace all tinned goods with eastern european equivalents with labels in any language but English.

      We the EIL (Evil Immigrant League) also support ID cards, as long as you can wear Burkhas on your photo.

      :)

      Also chairwoman, where did you get the opinion i don’t respect what you have to say? I might diagree with it, but disrespect is another thing all together. I disrepect what BNP trolls have to say, by making turkey jokes.

    15. Shamit — on 10th June, 2009 at 11:02 am  

      Chairwoman

      I was not having a dig at you with my comments. And I do respect your thoughts.

      BNP winning seats in the European Election is shameful and it does perturb me a fair bit. Welcome to PR -

      At the same time, their percentage of vote hasn’t gone up but our apathy and our anger at the political class have ensured seats for them in the European Parliament.

      But now because they are members of the European Parliament — I wonder how many legal challenges would come to stop the BNP MEPs along with the other far right MEPs to use public money to promote hatred and their policies violate Human Rights of many Europeans. And believe me those challenges are coming.

      I am ashamed and concerned but I am not overly worried - and I don’t think Platinum’s joke would make much of a difference. Without his joke, I think the pseudo-journalists have already targeted the Muslim population and his harmless joke would not make much of a difference.

      *********************************

      “In 1930 the German National Socialists were deemed to be no threat and look how that worked out.”

      The BNP is not going to come in power now or ever in this country — and things are not half as bad as things were in the Weimar Republic.

      Also the vast majority of the British population know what thse thickos and thugs stand for. And I have faith in the British public and the world at large. So while concerned, I am not worried too much about them coming anywhere near power.

      And the turkey is still a tasteless and dare I say ugly bird.

    16. Jai — on 10th June, 2009 at 11:22 am  

      I’ve just made this point on the other thread, but let me repeat it here:

      We’re aware of all the threats of prosecution for treason, demands for deportation, etc etc that have been hurled at Anjem Choudary and his psychotic buddies at Al-Muhajiroun (itself a banned organisation in its various incarnations) in recent times, because of their aspirations to impose their own fascist pseudo-theological ideology on the rest of the country if they ever achieved power, their support for enemies of the UK such as Al-Qaeda, their mutterings about the “Caliphate”, and so on and so forth.

      Given the fact that Nick Griffin is a Holocaust denier & is on record as claiming that the Holocaust was a “hoax” consisting of “lies, distortions and fabrications by the victorious Allied powers at the end of WW2″, the BNP consists of a disproportionate number of senior members with sympathies for historical mortal enemies of Britain such as Hitler, the Nazis and the Third Reich as a whole (which Britain went to war with in order to destroy), the BNP wishes to impose its fascist ideology (with its own twisted, distorted and highly inaccurate pseudo-intellectual views on British, European and global history, race, genetics, etc etc) on the rest of the country, falsely claims to be acting according to the teachings of Christianity and to represent Christians as a whole (KKK, anyone ?), and is currently busy consolidating an international coalition with similar Neo-Nazis in Europe (along with the US) with similar aspirations about achieving power in their respective countries…..why treat them any differently to Al-Muhajiroun ? Why should the BNP have any greater political, legal and social legitimacy ?

      Nick Griffin is the English version of Anjem Choudary. And the BNP’s supporters are the white British equivalent of those who support Al-Muhajiroun.

      Therefore, they should all be treated the same way. If you’re going to ban one group, ban the other as well. If you’re going to claim one group are traitors because of their sympathies and aspirations, by the same logic the other group are also traitors. If you’re going to start screaming about prosecuting and/or deporting members of one group, the same logic and measures should also apply to the other group.

      In the meantime, flag up the fundamental similarities between both groups as publicly as possibly, as widely as possible and as frequently as possible.

    17. Jai — on 10th June, 2009 at 11:28 am  

      I’ve just made this point on the other thread, but let me repeat it here:

      We’re aware of all the threats of prosecution for treason, demands for deportation, etc etc that have been hurled at Anjem Choudary and his psychotic buddies at Al-Muhajiroun (itself a banned organisation in its various incarnations) in recent times, because of their aspirations to impose their own fascist pseudo-theological ideology on the rest of the country if they ever achieved power, their support for enemies of the UK such as Al-Qaeda, their mutterings about the “Caliphate”, and so on and so forth.

      Given the fact that Nick Griffin is a Holocaust denier & is on record as claiming that the Holocaust was a “hoax” consisting of “lies, distortions and fabrications by the victorious Allied powers at the end of WW2″, the BNP consists of a disproportionate number of senior members with sympathies for historical mortal enemies of Britain such as Hitler, the Nazis and the Third Reich as a whole (which Britain went to war with in order to destroy), the BNP wishes to impose its fascist ideology (with its own twisted, distorted and highly inaccurate pseudo-intellectual views on British, European and global history, race, genetics, etc etc) on the rest of the country, falsely claims to be acting according to the teachings of Christianity and to represent Christians as a whole, and is currently busy consolidating an international coalition with similar Neo-Nazis in Europe (along with the US) with similar aspirations about achieving power in their respective countries…..why treat them any differently to Al-Muhajiroun ? Why should the BNP have any greater political, legal and social legitimacy ?

      Nick Griffin is the English version of Anjem Choudary. And the BNP’s supporters are the white British equivalent of those who support Al-Muhajiroun.

      Therefore, they should all be treated the same way. If you’re going to ban one group, ban the other as well. If you’re going to claim one group are traitors because of their sympathies and aspirations, by the same logic the other group are also traitors. If you’re going to start screaming about prosecuting and/or deporting members of one group, the same logic and measures should also apply to the other group.

      In the meantime, flag up the fundamental similarities between both groups as publicly as possibly, as widely as possible and as frequently as possible.

    18. Bill — on 10th June, 2009 at 11:48 am  

      >Aren’t the BNP pro-Capital punishment ?
      >That’s a “non-racist” policy.

      Not really.Most violent offenders and sex attackers are black.

    19. Ravi Naik — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:02 pm  

      Nick Griffin is the English version of Anjem Choudary. And the BNP’s supporters are the white British equivalent of those who support Al-Muhajiroun.

      Jai, Anjem Choudary has explicitly called for murdering people who he feels go against his twisted interpretation of religion. Nick Griffin hasn’t, and his speech is under heavy scrutiny. Mind you, I agree they have the same fundamentalist mindset.

      I also think that banning the BNP will not solve the problem, it may actually aggravate it. If racists are disfranchised from the democratic process, then they may resort to violence. And I rather have racists in suits telling their minions to behave themselves, rather than having them out in the streets attacking us.

      I am proud of our democracy and I think it can withstand these bastards. I agree with Sunny that now that the BNP has become “mainstream”, it will be much easier to attack them.

      As for whether the BNP is left-wing or right-wing, as I said before - they are economically to extreme left and socially to the extreme right. In any case, it is irrelevant: the BNP is a racist party.

    20. munir — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:03 pm  

      Rumbold
      “What we need to do is identify the non-racist issues that the BNP are using to woo voters, and get the other parties to deal with them (such as better provision of English language teaching in schools for children who don’t speak English). This will leave the BNP as little more than a racist rump, thus depriving them of plenty of votes, while their remaining supporters can be identified as racists without worrying about marginalising ‘protest voters’”

      The problem is that a zero immigration tough on Europe party already exists - UKIP (amongst others). This is why those who vote BNP leave themselves open to the racist tag- if you are anti immigrant there are non racist parties you can vote for. Why vote for one taht is clearly racist then?

    21. munir — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:05 pm  

      “People don´t want continuous immigration and most of them are concerned about the spread of Islamic crap all over the UK.”

      So how do they feel about Nasty Nick’s very friendly trips to Libya and Iran in the 1980s soliciting funds?
      You need to puit down your paper and understand reality. Muslims are 3% of this countries population.

    22. Adnan — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:06 pm  

      Bill @ 17

      Well that explains why folks like you are in favour of it then.

      Cheers for that.

      Also, apologies to Rumbold , Chairwoman and others for making light of the topic earlier.

    23. munir — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:08 pm  

      chairwoman
      ” before you know it, the press will pick it up, there will be headlines shouting ‘Muslims plot to replace Christmas turkey with curry’. And more idiots will be voting Griffin!”

      What does it say about our country then when a lone muslim makes a joke it could be turned into a front page story demonising Muslims? In the right wing press BNPland has already arrived and without these papers the BNP wouldnt have kept their deposit let alone won two seats and got a million seats

    24. munir — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:09 pm  

      Shamit
      “A tasteless bird has so much influence who would have thought?”

      Yeh I dont know why people listen to Melanie Phillips either

    25. Ravi Naik — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:13 pm  

      What does it say about our country then when a lone muslim makes a joke it could be turned into a front page story demonising Muslims?

      I agree, Munir.

      “A tasteless bird has so much influence who would have thought?”
      Yeh I dont know why people listen to Melanie Phillips either

      Hahaha…

    26. cjcjc — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:14 pm  

      Turkey curry would work for me.

    27. Jai — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:16 pm  

      Ravi,

      Nick Griffin hasn’t,

      Not yet (at least not in public), but we know what he would do once in power, given his admiration for Mein Kampf, the Third Reich etc.

      I bet that a covert wiretap or infiltration operation by MI5 would reveal what you and I both know the psychopath probably says in private (Hell, he’s even got links to the KKK, and we know their fondness for nooses isn’t related to lassooing horses or cattle).

      I also think that banning the BNP will not solve the problem, it may actually aggravate it. If racists are disfranchised from the democratic process, then they may resort to violence. And I rather have racists in suits telling their minions to behave themselves, rather than having them out in the streets attacking us.

      Then why ban Al-Muhajiroun (apart from what you said about Anjem Choudhary’s statements supporting murder) ? Doesn’t exactly the same logic apply to them and their own bigotted supporters ?

      ******************************

      Munir,

      You need to puit down your paper and understand reality. Muslims are 3% of this countries population.

      That needs to be supplemented with another fact before it will get through to the paranoid people concerned: 97% of this country’s population is not Muslim, and 90% of this country’s population are white.

    28. Yahya Birt — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:27 pm  

      The BBC has some short first-person accounts of why some people voted for the BNP:

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8089142.stm

      and why some Labour Party members are disillusioned:

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/8090257.stm

    29. persephone — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:41 pm  

      platinum @2

      The immigration policy does not require the english speaking element to those aged over 75 or who have ano reason to prevent their being able to take an exam.

      With asians penchant for extended families & stating they have dependant mothers & grandmothers who emigrate to the UK this aspect is also seen as a tax burden to both white & non white alike as Shamit highlighted @10

    30. platinum786 — on 10th June, 2009 at 1:03 pm  

      Oh yeah, the immigration threat provided by pensioner asians…. how could i forget… they’ll be around for hundreds of years milking the system, the NHS is like elixir of life right.

      You do realise in order to actually ask for a grandparent/parent to get right to stay in Britain you have to prove that you can afford to accomodate and provide for that person?

    31. Chris Baldwin — on 10th June, 2009 at 2:01 pm  

      “The BNP has policies which can be classed as left-wing”

      Only by sophistry.

    32. persephone — on 10th June, 2009 at 2:01 pm  

      @29 in looking at why there is discontent lets understand that what is being focussed on are: rights to state UK pensions & other elderly benefits, use of NHS, free travel etc without making tax/NI contributions.

      On another front, because of their age/language barriers they are also not seen to integrate. Some do not live here 12 months a year but go on what people see as long holidays (I believe legally allowed 6 months out of the UK - correct me here) back to their ‘home’ which incenses further as it is perceived as their not really being dependant nor a resident.

      I am not protecting those that feel this way this but am highlighting the issues. Becuase in raising things about ‘white’ culture that add to taxpayers costs there is also a flipside.

    33. chairwoman — on 10th June, 2009 at 2:14 pm  

      And the turkey is still a tasteless and dare I say ugly bird.

      There’s something irredeemably cute (to me) about a live turkey.

      Yahya - I know that this is not the sort of response you were looking for, but I thought I’d amuse you by telling you that my late husband and your father were in the same class at school. I have a photo of them somewhere looking extremely clean and silly at age 12.

    34. Ravi Naik — on 10th June, 2009 at 2:22 pm  

      Steve - before you open your stupid mouth — could you tell me what is the percentage of teenage pregnancies in britain and how many are from the Muslim population or the British Asian population at large?

      Spot on, Shamit. And I wonder why the BNP - who loves “indigenous” people so much - has not addressed this problem.

    35. chairwoman — on 10th June, 2009 at 2:28 pm  

      What does it say about our country then when a lone muslim makes a joke it could be turned into a front page story demonising Muslims? In the right wing press BNPland has already arrived and without these papers the BNP wouldnt have kept their deposit let alone won two seats and got a million seats

      Munir - I agree. It is why I took the decision a few days ago not to get into any fault finding and name calling here, as I feel very strongly that we have to become a united community in this country regardless of what’s happening overseas.

    36. Random Guy — on 10th June, 2009 at 2:38 pm  

      Yahya @ 9, 13 and 27: Thanks for the informative links. With regard to the underlying question of ‘Why’ in your posts, and in light of the articles you linked to, I would posit that the BNP vote has been augmented by the complete failure of Labour in stewarding the economy. Given that the catstrophic recession has bit hard into many parts of the UK, there is a natural burning resentment that is easily fanned on an anti-immigration platform. People who vote for the BNP are doing it because they seem to be offering a viable explanation of what is wrong with the state of the UK.

    37. Yahya Birt — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:16 pm  

      Chairwoman:

      Well it wasn’t really but I’d love to see the photo, if you could email me through my website maybe we can arrange something and/or hear something about embarassing teen school escapades your dad had with mine.

      Random Guy:

      The problem with that explanation is that the BNP vote was even higher in 2004 than it is now (for the Euro elections), and locally the BNP has got around 60-odd councillors in the last seven years or so, so it can’t be the credit crunch per se, can it? But looking at places like de-industrialising Stoke, the BNP did seem to be latching on to those places that globalisation has left behind…

    38. Wings of the BNP | Free Political Forum — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:18 pm  

      [...] Original post by Rumbold [...]

    39. The Common Humanist — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:21 pm  

      Hi All,

      I’m from Barnsley and was back there visiting my folks on Sunday.

      The BNP literature handed out there that I saw doesn’t mention race at all - all about the EU and unrestricted E European migrants coming here and legally taking local jobs. Thats fairly sound targeting in a small c conservative part of the country which is very old labour (nothing wrong with that) but which has seen its economy taken apart and only partially put back together. The mere threat of thousands of well educated E Europeans arriving at a time of rising unemployment does genuinely scare people who are largely after the same types of jobs. The fact that that has happened has pushed some into the arms of the BNP with their easy promises and simple solutions.

      You can’t discount the vast majority of these people that vote BNP as fascists or racists but as economically insecure and living on something of an economic knife edge.

    40. Yahya Birt — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:23 pm  

      Apologies, Chairwomen, I did mean the high school jinks your husband had with my dad.

    41. The Common Humanist — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:31 pm  

      In the part of Barnsley I am from the BNP has essentially taken over a local pub due to the land lady becoming a member (interestingly she was once a labour local candidate for council).

      There are alot of whispering campaigns in pubs going on and this is spreading. Example, my Dad was talking over the fence to his neighbour, the housing behind is in the process of being cleared (part of a regeneration plan). My Dads neighbour stated that he ‘heard’ that all the new houses were being reserved for quote ‘loads of pakis and blacks’ and not for local people. When my Dad took him to task on this he said he ‘heard it down the pub’. Nice eh? Now my Dads neighbour didn’t vote BNP but the area is incredibly vulnerable to such ideas taking root.

      Whilst the BNP started on the fascist right this is simply not a picture they present to possible voters in traditional Labour Areas - bear in mind that these are also places that are strong Forces recruitment areas (Duke of Welllingtons, Rifles, Green Howards etc) so talking up Nazism isn’t going to work when Dad, Brother, uncle, grandad is steeped in British Army lore. Instead it is far more basic - foreigners threaten your jobs, your post office is closing, Labour has forgotten you etc etc.

    42. Yahya Birt — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:46 pm  

      Common Humanist:

      Perhaps this the main pitch then for the BNP — white, trad. Labour voters and w/c — in places like Burnley or Stoke but on the other hand are also they appealing to m/c voters, or any ex-Conservative voters, and if so if would be interesting to find out what their pitch would be there.

    43. Shamit — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:49 pm  

      TCH

      This shows how incompetent our political parties are.

      They should have known about this — if they didn’t then we have major problems ie our main political parties have no base there at all.

      If they did know and still did nothing to combat that and not in the last two weeks before an election then I have to agree with John Prescott when he says Labour did not campaign properly.

      And why did not any high profile member of the labour party go to the pub with the media in tow? It would have been fun and it would have been very positive for the Labour party.

    44. The Common Humanist — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:52 pm  

      Yahya,

      I agree. Be interesting to see their pitch to differing audiences.

      TCH

    45. chavscum — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:55 pm  

      Anyone thought that properly restricting immigration, removing positive discrimmination, and reducing public funding of separative initiatives like black history month, might stop people voting for fascists? Just an idea, like.

    46. Random Guy — on 10th June, 2009 at 3:58 pm  

      Yahya @ 36, that sounds about right - and goes together with the ‘disenfrachised’ theme. Regarding the ‘credit crunch’ angle, my meaning is that perhaps we are approaching a tipping point now that we are in a full blown recession - where there is enough ’stock’ as it were, of people who have ‘had enough of the way things are’. And as we can see here, immigrants are typically first in the line of fire when it comes to this sort of thing.

      Regarding having less votes, this could just be due to apathy surely?

    47. The Common Humanist — on 10th June, 2009 at 4:18 pm  

      Shamit,

      Agreed. A key problem with the Labour Party in rural S Yorks (as much of Barnsley and Doncaster Districts actually are), as opposed to Sheffield, is that it is weak in terms of activists due to decades of total dominance.

      One of the points missed about FPTP as a voting system by the upper echelons of both Labour and Tory Party leaderships is that it helps attrophies partys as well as voter numbers. Something I see Brown and Cameron have still failed to grasped this arvo.

    48. Yahya Birt — on 10th June, 2009 at 4:24 pm  

      Random Guy @ 46

      I’m afraid you could be right, but in national elections with the current first-past-the-post system, for the BNP to win a seat in Westminister say in 2010 is obviously nigh-on impossible. With all the talk about PR or the forms of the Alternative Vote system for Westminister, surely this is something to take into proper consideration, as Chairwoman has pointed out. If I’m not mistaken the Germans deal with this under their PR system by not granting federal seats to any party that gets less then 5% of the vote at the federal state elections.

    49. Shatterface — on 10th June, 2009 at 4:30 pm  

      I curry my turkey on Boxing Day.

      (And no, that’s not a euphemism for anal sex)

    50. chairwoman — on 10th June, 2009 at 4:41 pm  

      “I curry my turkey on Boxing Day.

      (And no, that’s not a euphemism for anal sex)”

      Is this newspeak? Not a euphemism with which I am familiar.

    51. Shatterface — on 10th June, 2009 at 4:47 pm  

      You’ve had a sheltered life.

    52. chairwoman — on 10th June, 2009 at 4:52 pm  

      I didn’t think I had :)

    53. Rumbold — on 10th June, 2009 at 4:53 pm  

      Never heard of it myself Chairwoman. I shall ask down at the club.

      Platinum786 was clearly joking. It is not as if Glen Jenvey is on this thread (or is he…?). If we can’t even make jokes, then we might as well give up.

      Jai:

      I’ll just make my points on this thread, rather than on the other one as well (so as to keep things simple).

      I am in general very uncomfortable with the idea of banning groups because of what they might do. For example, Gordon Brown and his cronies have destroyed this country’s economy. A number had links with Britain’s past enemies (Mandelson, Darling etc.). Should the Labour party therefore be banned? No. Should the BNP be banned because of what they might do? Again, no. People, and this includes Al-Muhajiroun, should be free to form their own groups, providing their group’s activities/charter does not break the law. Individuals should be prosecuted for breaking the law.

      Munir:

      But some people don’t vote on immigration in order to ‘keep out the foreigners’, but because they are worried by what they perceive as the negative aspects of it (such as extra pressure on public services). Deal with those problems, and you leave the BNp with their racism and not much else.

    54. Clairwil — on 10th June, 2009 at 11:06 pm  

      Good post Rumbold and you’re right it is comforting to see everyone trying to distance themselves from them.

      From reading the BNP manifesto as far as I can tell it appears to be unworkable mish mash of poulist rhetoric drawn from the right and the left in an effort to make themselves look like something more substantial than a single issue white taliban.

    55. Amrit — on 10th June, 2009 at 11:44 pm  

      ‘Wings of the BNP’

      Are bat-like?

      Ought to be clipped?

      Seriously though, I really wish we could see Paxman facing down BNP members: ‘So, you want to deport all non-whites, British or not.’

      *squirming BNP member* Er…

      Pac-man: Is that not what it said in your manifesto?

      British Nazi Poppet: Yes…

      Pac-man: So what magic wand will you wave to replace all the, say, Indian doctors? The Filipino nurses?

      British Nazi Poppet: Well, obviously we will train indigenous whites to take over those roles…

      Pac-man: What if they don’t want to do them? What if they want to become footballers and glamour models?

      British Nazi Poppet: …

      and so on and so on until GAME OVER! Pac-man will get his ghost (the British Nazi Poppet).

      I’ll just head back to my padded cell now. :-D

    56. Shamit — on 11th June, 2009 at 7:57 am  

      Amrit -

      Nice one.

      Jai has competition now.

    57. persephone — on 11th June, 2009 at 9:42 am  

      Amrit,

      hilarious!

    58. Jai — on 11th June, 2009 at 10:16 am  

      Amrit,

      Brilliant !

      Especially this bit:

      British Nazi Poppet: Well, obviously we will train indigenous whites to take over those roles…

      Pac-man: What if they don’t want to do them? What if they want to become footballers and glamour models?

      Love it :)

    59. Amrit — on 11th June, 2009 at 12:06 pm  

      Thank you, thank you. :-D
      What I would really love to see is this:

      Pac-man: Let me get this straight. You think whites are ‘the master race,’ and that Britain would be better off without non-whites.

      British Nazi Poppet: Yes.

      Pac-man: So, you have a leader who couldn’t even get a second-class degree in History, but you think you’re going to be able to train millions of ‘indigenous whites’ to do significantly different and harder jobs, like surgery? Pharmacy?

      British Nazi Poppet: *begins to make like a Ribena berry and go purple with rage*

      Pac-man: I’m waiting for an explanation…

      We really need to see this happen though. I wish I could start a petition to get Paxman to grill not just the BNP, but ALL the major parties, about their dodgy aspects. On primetime television. That would be amazing.

    60. Kismet Hardy — on 11th June, 2009 at 12:44 pm  

      The Dead Kennedys were far-left. I’d like to see Nick Griffin stand his ground with Jello Biafra in the room

    61. persephone — on 11th June, 2009 at 1:25 pm  

      @ 59

      Y’know Amrit its not Nick Griffins fault that he did not get a higher class degree.

      It was all those immigrants in their multitudes that attend Cambridge that prevented him from achieving supremacy. All the Cambridge dons were spending all their time teaching remedial classes to the droves of non whites there. The same thing happened to him at the two private schools he attended before University too. Oh and at kindergarten he had to share the climbing frame with a non indigenous kid which ruined his motor skills for life too.

    62. Jai — on 11th June, 2009 at 2:22 pm  

      We really need to see this happen though. I wish I could start a petition to get Paxman to grill not just the BNP,…..about their dodgy aspects. On primetime television. That would be amazing.

      I would absolutely love to see a one-hour Newsnight special focusing solely on Paxman taking Griffin completely apart. Griffin got slaughtered by Adam Bolton and William Hague on Sky News on the night of the election, so you can only imagine what Paxman would be able to do to him.

      ***************************

      I’d like to see Nick Griffin stand his ground with Jello Biafra in the room

      I’d like to see Hitler-worshipping, Nazi-defending, WW2 RAF-hating Nick Griffin stand his ground with Winston Churchill in the room.

      Churchill, for all his faults (especially his attitude towards Indians), was so aggressively hostile towards the Nazis that, during discussions on the matter in December 1944, US leaders actually had to restrain him when it came to his views on what should be done to captured leading Nazis. (Churchill’s original stance involved summary executions via an “Act of Attainder” in order circumvent legal obstacles).

    63. Adnan — on 11th June, 2009 at 3:11 pm  

      Jai @ 62,

      I suspect that Churchill would possibly buy into other narratives such as British history / tradition being under threat.

      Also, a worry is the BNP finding a leader untainted by racist thuggery, or a Nazi background (Holocaust Denial, dressing up in uniforms, links to US Far Right) - a logical progression in a process beginning with changing emphasis to a religious group, moderating their language. However, maybe they won’t be sophisticated enough to do so, or they’ll lose some of their real hard-core support (cited as a possible reason for the membership list leak).

      I think the less overt racist approach has helped them.

    64. Rumbold — on 11th June, 2009 at 8:57 pm  

      Brilliant Amrit.

      What is it with Sikhs and jokes? Now all we need is Mangles at the mike.



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