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  • Another Indian assaulted in Australia


    by Rumbold
    2nd June, 2009 at 7:18 pm    

    It is unclear what has caused the spate of attacks on Indians in Australia in recent weeks. One suffered 30% burns as a result of a petrol bomb; two more were stabbed; another was probably murdered. A fifth Indian was beaten by a gang. In protest, Amitabh Bachchan refused to accept an honorary doctorate from an Australian university. Yet, sadly, these cases don’t seem to have shocked seasoned watchers of Australia’s race relations. As Shamit, one of our least hyperbolic commenters, put it on another thread:

    “The racist attacks on foreigners ie those with a different skin colour or religion sadly is becoming more and more frequent in parts of Australia. And the victims have been Jews, Chinese, Indians and the list goes on. Go back a few years and you can see a trend steadily growing.

    In the recent attacks, while the Aussie Government wants to play down the race issue, it is clearly an issue based on eye witnesses. And, the police trying to imply these are not racist attacks along with my own experiences somehow makes me think that there are institutional problems which the Aussie Government has failed to address for a long time. My experiences are about a decade old now.”

    Britain is hardly perfect (BNP anyone?) when it comes to minorities. But from what Shamit and others have said, Australia might well be worse (remember how popular John Howard’s stance on immigration was? Makes ‘British jobs for British workers’ seem tame).


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      [...] Original post: Another Indian assaulted in Australia | Pickled Politics [...]




    1. Vikrant — on 2nd June, 2009 at 10:03 pm  

      What more infuriating Rumbold, is that Australian response has been to flat out deny any charges of racism. They are more concerned about their education industry and reputation more than the well being of international students.

      I’ve been reading australian take on the attacks and most columnists are faulting the Indian students for complaining too much!

    2. Random Guy — on 3rd June, 2009 at 7:32 am  

      Is this a new trend, or the continuation of an old one?

    3. munir — on 3rd June, 2009 at 8:06 am  

      “The racist attacks on foreigners ie those with a different skin colour or religion sadly is becoming more and more frequent in parts of Australia. And the victims have been Jews, Chinese, Indians and the list goes on.”

      Im amazed that Shamit doesnt mention the brutal assaults on Lebanese at Cronulla a few years ago and on Muslims generally. Though Im not suprised Vikrant “Jihad Wach” doesnt; he was probably leading the support for such attacks on that odious little hate site This sin of omission makes it appear Shamit thinks attacks on Muslims are OK too

    4. platinum786 — on 3rd June, 2009 at 8:43 am  

      I don’t always agree with Munir but he is right. Society in general, in Britain, Australia, America, other european countries, has been having a go at Muslims for a while now and all the other minorities have pretty much stood by and been somewhat apologists for the actions of some people.

      In my living memory as a young adult, it’s not that long, but I’ve found I’ve had a bit of a siege mentality for years. There was the Bradford/Oldham riots, where the BNP and it’s ilk clashed with Muslim youths and found out that was a bad idea.

      Then there was the post 911 Islamaphobia, where simple rhetoric from mainstream political leaders added fuel to the fire. There was Bush banging on about crusades, at home we had leaders talking of the Islamist threat, talking of it’s existance within British society etc. Yeah we had loonies like Al Muhajiroun and HT but they are hardly an active Al Queda cell are they?

      The way the retorhic was going, especially with papers like the Daily Mail etc, which are read by a lot of middle classes, it made me feel “They’re pointing the finger at us, this might ge pretty bad”.

      When 7/7 occured my first thought was “shit, it’s all gonna kick off now”. Is it fair that as a british citizen i should feel unsafe in my own community simply because of the criminal actions of a group of individuals i share a religion with? To the credit of British society, nothing happened, and overall it’s been pretty good, but that does not mean there has not been the rhetoric required for things to get bad. The credit for this goes to the people, not the leadersip of our country, who at hard times have simply looked to point score.

      Throughout this entire period, I never felt that the community stood up and opposed anti Muslim rhetoric. of course there are individuals who did but as a whole, i think the British community, and most unfortunately other ethnic minorities were more than willing to sit by and watch Neo-cons rant on Question Time and Policy exchange make headlines and say “Oh really, how fascinating”.

      Australia has gone further. They’ve become what i fear we might become in 10-20 years time, an openly racist society. John Howard stood by and let refugees starve on a ship, rather than allowing it to enter Australian waters, all in an effort to keep out immgrants. Australian society was not outraged. I’d hope we would be, but I know a lot of people in Stoke on Trent wouldn’t be.

      Today I fear the seeds of that sort of society are being sown. Were seeing more pro BNP activity, and a lot of anti immigration talk. the mainstream parties are pandering to the whims of anyone and everyone, as they try to cover the shame of being caught with thier pants down.

      Britain used to be a somebody on the world stage, it won’t come out of the current economic crisis as such. Britain used to have the worlds fourth largest economy, that’s not the case anymore, and we have no chance of working our way back up there. Countries like China, India, Brazil, even the arabs perhaps, will break into the economic dominance the western world used to have. Asia will revolve around China and India, Finance in the Muslim world will revolve around Islamic finance, countries like Brazil will soon become leader states in South America, China will dominate in Africa, Britain will no longer be an economic giant, we’re going to be a rich country, but not a giant of a country.

      As this happens, more people will be made unemployed, British economics will change, companies will go bust. What I fear is that first the pressure will be on the immigrants, but how long before the darkies become a burden too?

      Australia is a racist country today, what are we doing to prevent us going the same way?

    5. zaffer — on 3rd June, 2009 at 9:01 am  

      I once had an Australian manager who identified mixed-race people as ‘Mongrels’. Strange thing though as he was married to an Indian-Fujian women- would he call his children Mongrels?

      I hastily told him (as we worked in Brixton) that you were liable to get shot if you used that backward racist terminology here.

    6. fug — on 3rd June, 2009 at 9:21 am  

      the cut throat australian occupation would seem to be in need of some ‘sizing’.

      folks should encourage a joint liberation from new zealand and indonesia.

      their soap-based soft power will crumble.

    7. mk1 — on 3rd June, 2009 at 9:53 am  

      These attacks are shocking.

      But I wish Mr Bachan would fek off and keep his nose out. Where are his protests when Indians are being attacked in India because of their religion or caste?

      Where was is outrage over the Sikh killings of 1984, something his close friend Mr Gandhi played an instrumental role in as PM when he didn’t provide sufficiant security to those butchered?

    8. Outside Left — on 3rd June, 2009 at 10:27 am  

      Part of the problem is that many white Australians, even those on the political left, are in denial that racism exists in “the lucky country”. I remember Labor’s Peter Beattie, as premier of Queensland, responding to a travel guidebook’s comments that warned of racism in his state that the problem had been just about eradicated and any racism was residual from British rule - ie not my problem, mate.

    9. Jai — on 3rd June, 2009 at 10:29 am  

      Im amazed that Shamit doesnt mention the brutal assaults on Lebanese at Cronulla a few years ago and on Muslims generally…..This sin of omission makes it appear Shamit thinks attacks on Muslims are OK too

      There’s no “sin of omission”. Shamit’s exact words were as follows (with the key areas highlighted in bold):

      “The racist attacks on foreigners ie those with a different skin colour or religion sadly is becoming more and more frequent in parts of Australia. And the victims have been Jews, Chinese, Indians and the list goes on.”

      Lebanese, Muslims etc fall within the highlighted areas.

      Otherwise one may as well say that Shamit, by virtue of presumed “deliberate omission”, is also tacitly supporting racial attacks on Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Japanese, Philippinos, Koreans, Thais, Vietnamese, Africans, West Indians, indigenous Aborigines, Moroccans, and (given their frequent skin colour and presence in Australia) even Greeks too.

      I think that common sense would dictate that the above is not the case.

      The world does not revolve around Muslims, and although I would not be surprised if (given various international events during the past decade) there may well be a Muslimophobic element motivating attacks on both Lebanese people and (more recently) Indians in Australia, just because someone does not explicitly say the word “Muslims” when listing the various victims of racial prejudice in Australia, it does not automatically mean that they actually condone prejudice specifically against Muslims, especially when they’ve used the words “different religion” and “the list goes on”. And it’s also worth bearing in mind that the very term “Indians” itself includes people who are Muslims, and there may well therefore have been Indian Muslim victims of the recent spate of attacks in that counry.

      Less self-centredness & paranoia and giving people a little more credit would be a good idea, especially from Munir who has very recently been making some fantastic points in the various discussions on PP he has participated in, and is therefore clearly capable of tremendous insight and intelligence.

    10. Jai — on 3rd June, 2009 at 10:41 am  

      Platinum786,

      Re: #5

      I understand your point but it would be worth bearing in mind that British Asians of all religious backgrounds have been on the receiving end of prejudice and harassment in recent years due to the animosity towards Muslims in some quarters. We’ve all had to deal with this, whether we’re Muslim or not — and the real rednecks don’t give a damn about any “clarification” about one’s religious affiliation or beliefs if they’ve got a real chip on their shoulder against Muslims or Asians in general, remember (unless they’re using some kind of “divide & rule” tactic, which does sometimes still happen).

      But I do agree with your point about people from other ethnic minorities sometimes disassociating themselves from the rest of us these days and even sometimes pointedly affiliating themselves with the racists if the targets are Asian. Hell, even Shilpa Shetty found that out, if you remember some of the responses from members of other minorities (including Lenny Henry, disappointingly) when she was having to deal with all that racially-motivated abuse in the CBB house.

      Anyway, like I said in #10, the attacks against Indians in Australia are against your fellow desis (some of whom may well be Muslim, but in this case I think it’s racially-motivated, as opposed to religion). A little more pan-South Asian solidarity and empathy would be nice.

    11. Jai — on 3rd June, 2009 at 10:49 am  

      In protest, Amitabh Bachchan refused to accept an honorary doctorate from an Australian university.

      Good man. Quite a high profile rejection. Kudos to Amitabh.

      What more infuriating Rumbold, is that Australian response has been to flat out deny any charges of racism. They are more concerned about their education industry and reputation more than the well being of international students.

      Since the matter is escalating there have recently been some appropriately contrite noises coming from various senior members of the Australian government, especially because Indian PM Manmohan Singh has become personally involved in asking them exactly what the hell is going on in their country.

      However, a couple of days ago there were some ridiculous responses from members of the Australian police — they were trying to turn things back on the Indians and pin the blame on them by saying “They are quite passive and quiet” and that (to paraphrase), “they therefore brought the attacks on themselves”.

      It’s an outright “blame the victim” mentality — hell, it’s like saying it’s the woman’s fault if she gets raped and implying that “she asked for it” due to some aspect of her attire, demeanour or behaviour — and I think we all know the cops would never dare say anything like that, especially to the media.

    12. Shamit — on 3rd June, 2009 at 10:54 am  

      Rumbold - thanks — good post.
      *****************************
      Munir

      “This sin of omission makes it appear Shamit thinks attacks on Muslims are OK too”

      If I may speak for myself, I do not condone attacks on anyone because of their race, colour or religion. And that extends to Muslims too.

      It was not an intended ommission.

      ****************************
      Platinum:

      Good comments - and I share your concerns. But I am a little more optimistic about Britain both economically as well as socially.

      I think over the past few years, the vast majority of people who are fair minded and open have their voices drowned by the cacaphony of extreme viewpoints from all sides of the debate — and once again the idiotic minority gets the most attention from all of us — the media, ourselves and look at us at pickled politics.

      We get very worked up about when a BNP troll finds his/her way here but how many times do we discuss or talk about the good things that are happening in our communities? How many comments do those threads get when the writers talk about some very positive steps that are being taken in communities across the country?

      Actually very few people know about them. The debate seems to be continuously revolving around extreme and divisive voices along with loony left and right joining in with their theatrics.

      I think it falls on all of us to ensure that we do not go the Australia way — and economically there is a lot we could do which would ensure our competitiveness in a knowledge based economy.

      But I am not willing to just hold the government responsible but also us the citizens. Our state schools are not bad and there are enough committed teachers but one must never forget that parents have a key role to play also.

      Why are so many of our children lacking ambition and interest in success?

      Why do we have teenagers murdering each other and getting into gangs and not focusing on improving their lives? Is it all the Government’s fault?

      Lack of education and skills of a large group of young adults is the surest way to head down the path of Australia.

      We can avoid becoming as divided as Australia if we all take responsibility. Sounds cliche but its true.

    13. Shamit — on 3rd June, 2009 at 10:55 am  

      Jai

      Thanks mate.

    14. Jai — on 3rd June, 2009 at 10:57 am  

      A quick clarification about my post #11, before anyone gets paranoid and starts any finger-pointing:

      I understand your point but it would be worth bearing in mind that British Asians of all religious backgrounds have been on the receiving end of prejudice and harassment in recent years due to the animosity towards Muslims in some quarters. We’ve all had to deal with this, whether we’re Muslim or not

      The paragraph above does not mean any perceived lack of sympathy on the part of non-Muslim Asians towards Muslims in relation to the prejudice the latter have to suffer would be “justified” or “understandable” (far from it) — it means that we’re all in the same boat and that any prejudice towards Muslims therefore impacts the rest of us too. Non-Muslim Asians therefore cannot (and often do not) stand back in a detached way in these situations, because we all have to deal with the ongoing real-world consequences of the prejudice concerned and are frequently on the receiving end of it as much as Muslim Asians are.

      ***************************

      Shamit,

      Jai
      Thanks mate.

      No problem. It needed to be said.

    15. Shamit — on 3rd June, 2009 at 11:01 am  

      Jai @ 15

      Completely agree

    16. damon — on 3rd June, 2009 at 11:49 am  

      My first reaction on hearing about this was surprise in the way it was being talked about in some quaters.
      I wondered how you define whether atacks are racially motivated, and how much culpability Australian society as a whole has to take.
      This poor guy who was stabbed with a screwdriver when gatecrashers turned up at a party is a victim of violent thugs for sure.
      http://www.theage.com.au/national/indian-stab-victim-aussie-banker-to-pay-for-airfare-20090603-bv2m.html
      What their motivation was and how it might be so much differnt from things like this that happen freqently in places like Britain, Australia and the US, I’m not sure.
      Students away at university often learn that they have to be a bit wary of the local tough working class kids. When you’re at Manchester University (for example) it’s wise to be a bit careful coming home late at night.

      It may be true that these Australian assailents have had some racial motive in attacking Indian students.
      I remember when I was picking tomatoes in Queensland some years ago and living in backpacker hostels in some small country towns, that the local ”redneck types” didn’t care for the international backpacker congintent in town.
      In fact, I remember some horrible locals would turn up in the hostel garden bar of an evening and proceed to get drunk and become quite obnoxious.
      No doubt some local yokels in Cambridgshire and Linconshire have behaved similarly to influxes of eastern Europlean workers.

      I just saw this figure that is quite alarming:
      ”Many of the most serious cases occurred in the western suburbs of the state capital Melbourne, where police estimate Indians account for about 30 percent of all robbery and assault victims.”
      http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jt3P16XjoLtcy3emATQxn7sPvTeg

      I wonder what we’d say if these statistics were not for Melbourne but for London?

      Where Asian students were making 30% of mugging victims? (I say this as in London, youths of African and Caribbean origin make up a majority of these street gang members).

      Another thing I remember from being in Melbourne is the sheer number of overseas students in the city.
      Every morning there were crowds of them waiting for the central library to open, and as soon as it did there was a big rush and immediately every seat and table (and computor) was taken.
      But I had the impression that Melbourne was a very friendly enviorement for overseas students.

      Finally, on John Howard’s immigration policy in 2003 (towards those asylum seekers on board ships coming from Indonesia) - what should the government have done?
      Granted asylum to everyone who could get near Christmas Island?
      I’m not saying I supported what he did, but it has had the effect of stopping that becoming a never ending occurence (has it not?)

    17. damon — on 3rd June, 2009 at 1:09 pm  

      Just by the way, I remember walking along the line (in the overspill taxi rank) of taxi drivers at Sydney airport and nearly all the drivers in the huge taxi parking queues were of Asian origin. I also spent an evening another time in the Melbourne suburb of Footscray, which I remember as being almost entirely South East Asian (along the businesses on the main street).
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footscray,_Victoria And new immigrants too.
      It felt like Vietnam more than Australia. What I mean by saying that, is that I walked past a big hotel (pub) of the old wooden traditional style from the 40′s or 50′s. It was closed up for good, (and now years later, is I’m sure is just a fading memory to how Footscray once was.
      I went over to a woman who was working away at some food preperation in a very oriental type of busy kitchen that was open to the street, and asked her for directions. She looked slightly alarmed and immediately refered me to some man who spoke Engliish.
      That Australia is happy for these communities to take root and prosper within it, makes accusations of ”racist Australia” seem somewhat harsh (to my mind).

    18. platinum786 — on 3rd June, 2009 at 1:10 pm  

      Damon, regarding John Howard, he didn’t have to give them asylum, he could have simplt had them taken into custody, processed and sent back to Afghanistan.

    19. Yakoub — on 3rd June, 2009 at 1:13 pm  

      I remember Lenny Henry talking about his first visit to Australia - he was utterly astonished by the racism he experienced there.

    20. Jai — on 3rd June, 2009 at 2:10 pm  

      A news/current affairs blog in Australia has been covering this ongoing issue extensively. Check out the subsequent comments threads in particular, after the main articles (Shamit & Rumbold, you guys should find all this especially interesting).

      “Is Australia a racist country ?”:

      http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/is-australia-a-racist-country/20090526-bl4q.html?page=1

      “Hate crime laws on the way”:

      http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/hate-crime-laws-on-the-way/20090602-btd3.html

      “Indian student attacked”:

      http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/indian-student-slashed/20090603-buq1.html

      *************************

      As discussed in the last link above, another Indian student in Melbourne has been attacked with a knife; apparently a gurdwara/Sikh temple was also attacked during the weekend, with racist graffiti written on the walls.

      Some of you with access to NDTV may also have seen news footage of Australian police violently breaking up a peaceful protest by thousands of Indians in central Melbourne (including dragging protesters away), which one of the articles above also mentions.

    21. Refresh — on 3rd June, 2009 at 2:19 pm  

      Excellent topic and well timed.

      The 2001 far-right fuelled riots were handled so badly by the ‘think the unthinkable’ Blunkett that it gave the BNP the boost it needed which it hopes to capitalise on tomorrow. Add to that all the fear-mongering we’ve seen since 9/11.

      Platinum, good points well made.

      People who are always likely to be the targets of and scapegoats for the far-right have no choice but be forever vigilant. There were groups who tried to ride the anti-muslim train from various communities for their own political ends (almost invariably to suit a political agenda being played out in a far and distant land). The price to be paid by us as a nation is here. Not in India, Pakistan, Israel…..

      As for Amitabh Bachan, harrah! Representations should be made at the highest level by the Indian government. And I am pleased to add that the President of Pakistan did absolutely the right thing snubbing Gordon Brown for the UK handling of the non-terrorist students that had to be released. Definite signs of confidence breaking out in the sub-continent.

      All these things are contributory factors in how a host nation might treat their guests, whether in Australia or here.

    22. platinum786 — on 3rd June, 2009 at 2:28 pm  

      Zardari probably snubbed him as he wasn’t willing to give him 10%….

    23. Jai — on 3rd June, 2009 at 2:36 pm  

      You do get the impression that many white Australians (including people in the media over there) seem to have problems understanding “what the big deal is”. One of the articles mentions someone saying that in terms of attitudes towards race and non-white people, compared to places like the UK and (especially) the United States it’s “like stepping back in time”.

      I’d agree, based on what I know about the prevailing attitudes in parts of Australian society and also based on some negative experiences with Australians now living here in London. It really does feel like dealing with a racist white Brit from the 1970s and 80s – unashamedly open racist behaviour towards (and “opinions” stated in the presence of) South Asians that have generally been regarded as unacceptable in mainstream British culture for decades, especially from the 1990s onwards.

      As for the situation over in Australia, I wonder if they’re going to have to go through the same convulsions that Britain did 20+ years ago. Especially bearing in mind that a disproportionate number of the targets of recent attacks seem to be Sikhs — remember what happened in Southall when the local Sikh population started fighting back the NF, replicated by a hardening of “we’re not taking this racist crap from anyone anymore” attitudes amongst 2nd-generation British Asians of all backgrounds all over the UK in the subsequent years. The Aussies may well discover that their own local Indian population (especially the younger/under-40 crowd) start “rediscovering” and asserting certain martial aspects of their cultural heritage and (like the rednecks here in Blighty) were never quite the “soft targets” that they mistook them for.

      However, apparently concerted anti-racism efforts are afoot, as follows:

      “- Foreign Minister Stephen Smith said the Federal Government had set up a multi-agency taskforce to co-ordinate its response to racially motivated attacks. The taskforce includes officials from the Foreign Affairs, Immigration, Education and Attorney-General’s departments.

      - As Indian consul-general Anita Nayar watched from Parliament’s public gallery, Premier John Brumby said he would lead a community walk on July 12 to promote social tolerance and harmony, from Carlton Gardens to Federation Square.”

      …..so let’s hope these measures are effective before there is any kind of escalation or backlash.

    24. Refresh — on 3rd June, 2009 at 2:36 pm  

      My reference was specifically to the Office of President. Not the incumbent excuse.

    25. munir — on 3rd June, 2009 at 3:01 pm  

      Yakoub
      “I remember Lenny Henry talking about his first visit to Australia - he was utterly astonished by the racism he experienced there”

      Well Yvonne Ridley said it was one of the most anti-Muslim nations shes been to

      Jai
      “The Aussies may well discover that their own local Indian population (especially the younger/under-40 crowd) start “rediscovering” and asserting certain martial aspects of their cultural heritage and (like the rednecks here in Blighty) were never quite the “soft targets” that they mistook them for.”

      I dont disagree with you one bit but Im just imagining what if a Muslim had written a piece suggesting Muslims defend themselves and fight back against their attackers as you have! Sid and David T would write polemics attacking the person , Mad Mel would suggest they be prosecuted under the anti-terorism act

    26. Jai — on 3rd June, 2009 at 3:30 pm  

      I’m not “suggesting” anything, Munir; I’m just stating a logical sequence of events which there is a significant chance of occurring, based on the British precedent and based on how Sikhs in general tend to react (regardless of where they happen to be in the world) when faced with this kind of treatment and find that they receive insufficient protection from the local authorities.

      As for Sid/Faisal, well he’s from a particular age group in the 2nd-generation British Asian population which (compared to their parents) took a much more assertive stance in response to racism & racially-motivated intimidation and was also a strong advocate of “Asian solidarity” regardless of religious affiliation or subcontinental regional origin, so he may be more sympathetic than you assume him to be in relation to your own hypothetical analogy. It might be a good idea to give the guy more credit.

      Mad Mel obviously has her own demented agenda so I don’t think we should waste much time worrying about what she would say.

    27. Damian Grammaticus Is a Loser — on 3rd June, 2009 at 6:25 pm  

      I like how the british media didn’t even report it but reported the ‘Illegal immigrant visa scam’ for its whitebred cunts to masturbate over, a bunch of true fascists.

    28. Vikrant — on 3rd June, 2009 at 6:29 pm  

      Munir,

      As someone else mentioned, world doesn’t really revolve around Muslims. At any rate i don’t really feel the need to defend myself against a ranting bigot. World you know isn’t black and white, so at times it helps to acknowledge differences of opinion and biases rather than brand everone who doesn’t agree with your rather narrow worldview as evil/racist or something!

    29. Rumbold — on 3rd June, 2009 at 6:49 pm  

      Thanks Shamit, Refresh, Jai and others.

      Munir:

      You really don’t get it do you? By attacking good people like Shamit you simply make it easier for people to ignore you when you actually have a reasonable point to make.

    30. Ravi Naik — on 4th June, 2009 at 9:59 am  

      One of the articles mentions someone saying that in terms of attitudes towards race and non-white people, compared to places like the UK and (especially) the United States it’s “like stepping back in time”.

      That’s absolutely true. For those that do not know, Australia had an openly white-only immigration policy until the 1970s. First they opened doors to northern Europeans, specially white British people - but that was not enough to sustain the economy, so in the 1960s they opened the doors to southern Europeans and Mediterranean people - who were subject to blatant racism, and were called wogs.

      With Tiananmen Square incident in 1989 and 1997 looming (China’s takover of Hong Kong), there was a massive immigration of chinese during that period. Racism was pretty open against the Chinese - I personally witnessed the owner of a store in Sidney during a visit in the 1990s, talking to a customer, and saying things like “they do not speak English or anything, and they should go back to where they came from!”. I was rather shocked: he said it in store full of people, who didn’t seem to mind.

      So these attitudes against Indians do not surprise me at all. What surprises me is that attacks are done against students, which is similar to what is happening in Russia.

    31. munir — on 4th June, 2009 at 10:14 am  

      Vikrant
      “As someone else mentioned, world doesn’t really revolve around Muslims.”

      Says the JihadWatch contributor!

      Great - was wondering if you could tell that to the numerous non-Muslims (including those on PP) absolutely obsessed with Muslims incl Robert Spencer, Mel Phillips, David T, Daniel Pipes, Marke Steyn, Charles Moore, Damien Thompson, etc etc etc (their names are legion)

      or the RSS and Hinduvata facsists

      On PP we have qidniz, billeraicy dicky and marvin amonsgt others

      “At any rate i don’t really feel the need to defend myself against a ranting bigot.”

      Says the JihadWatch contributor!

      ” World you know isn’t black and white, so at times it helps to acknowledge differences of opinion and biases rather than brand everone who doesn’t agree with your rather narrow worldview as evil/racist or something!”

      Did you learn that on JW?

    32. damon — on 4th June, 2009 at 10:20 am  

      I’m still not to easy about this ”Australia is a racist country” charge. Maybe because I’ve never really had the definitive explaination by what racist means in a context like this.

      The ”white Australia” policy that the government once had was racist for sure, as was (from what I remember of her) Pauline Hanson. Small town Australia (and particularly remote areas) I’m sure are backward when it comes to people’s attitudes to multi-culturalism and pluralism, but I don’t think it’s fair to target Australians as being much worse than other peoples of the world.
      I’m sure the Irish had a bit of getting used to going from a country that was almost ethnicly homogeneous, to what it is today, and I would not be surprised in the slightest to hear of overseas students being targeted there. By thugs and yobs.

      I was in Australia when the Bali nightclub bombs went off, and there was a surge of what you would call Islamophobia in the media, particularly the populist radio talk shows.
      Some of the ”anger” at the muslim community came from revalations that the leader of Jemaah Islamiyah (Abu Bakar Bashir, who was being blamed for the bombs) had been a regular visitor to Australia, and had spoken at many of the country’s leading mosques.
      He would be met at the airoprt in any city he arrived in and lodge with local muslim families.

      One guy on the radio (called John Laws) had the jingle signature tune that went with the words ”Australia … love it or leave it”… so you can probably guess how his radio phone in programme went.
      The question that was being asked was, how sympathetic had the Australian muslim population been to the message of a guy like Abu Bakar Bashir before the Bali bombs. (Afterwards the muslim community was going out of its way to condem the bombs and pledge their allegiance to Australia).

      One thing that I remember, when visiting the western suburb of Lakemba in Sydney (which has a sizeable muslim population) a couple of weeks after the bombs, was picking up a copy of the (free) Australian Muslim News (which is stocked in grocery shops).
      The main article was about the Bali bombs and how the Muslimn population was as appalled as all other Australians.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakemba,_New_South_Wales

      Inside the paper they also covered the Moscow theatre hostage crisis of 2002. (The one carried out by Chechen seperatists)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

      Talking about this act in Moscow, they were much more equivical, and I still remember the caption next to the image of a dead Chechen as it said: ”Chechen martyr”.

      ”Wow” I thought. Was that just an error and faux pax?

    33. platinum786 — on 4th June, 2009 at 10:35 am  

      Damon, big difference between the bombs in Bali and the Chechen cause. The bombs in Bali where an outright act of terrorism. It’s evil for the sake of evil. Chechen acts of terrorism are carried out due to a political battle. They want a seperate entity.

      I’ve grown beyond trying to condone or justify terrorist activities. Any attack on civillians regardless of the religious/political motivation which fits into the legal definition of a terrorist attack, is wrong.

      However, that is not to say that I oppose populations using violence as a last resort to get what they want if they feel they are victims of injustice. That is not a blanket statement of support for all armed movements around the world who limit their operations to combat with armed forces.

      My point is, that in Chechnya, any action they carry out, they source back to the Russian occupation of Chechnya, the attrocities carried out by Russia. People can see support that ideal. In the particualr case of the Moscow attack the killing was done by the Russian special forces who flooded the theatre with Gas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

      This is a well known fact. You can’t really blame the Chechens for the heavy handed approach of the Russians.
      We saw a repeat of that approach tragically in Beslan.

      So in this particualr situation you see;

      1. A cause that people can side with
      2. Shared responsbility for the casulties

      Hence why it’s easier for people to use the term martyr rather than terrorist.

      Again I personally do not support the use of those tactics. I think the best tactic is diplomacy but in a world where the Muslim countries are unwilling and incapable of using their influence to help the cause of other Muslim nations, and the UN is unable to enforce anything unless it’s against someone who threatens American interest, we have people who are genuinely suffering and have turned to armed struggles.

    34. munir — on 4th June, 2009 at 10:42 am  

      Platinum786
      “Damon, big difference between the bombs in Bali and the Chechen cause. The bombs in Bali where an outright act of terrorism. It’s evil for the sake of evil. Chechen acts of terrorism are carried out due to a political battle. They want a seperate entity. ”

      Quite. People are rightly disgusted at the deaths of hundreds of Russian children at Beslan - but there is no outrage at the 52000 Chechen children killed by Russians, or that 1/4 of the Chechen population has been extreminated by Russians or at the mass rapes, tortures and abductions by the Russians. Or the use of vacuum bombs on civilain populations. Or that the Chechen democratically voted for independence

      The hypocrisy is incredible and sinister.

      Damon is shocked by teh calling of a Chechen as a “martyr” - but Putin is a far worse terrorist and murderer who is lauded in our press and by our politicians

    35. Ravi Naik — on 4th June, 2009 at 11:02 am  

      Talking about this act in Moscow, they were much more equivical, and I still remember the caption next to the image of a dead Chechen as it said: ”Chechen martyr”.
      ”Wow” I thought. Was that just an error and faux pax?

      Are you saying that the Chechen in the picture was one of the perpetrators of the Moscow theatre hostage crisis? And he was called a martyr? If so, that is completely disingenuous.

    36. damon — on 4th June, 2009 at 11:11 am  

      Yes Ravi, the Chechen was one of the dead ”terrorists”.

      platinum786 @ 5, I’m sorry you felt like that after 9/11 and 7/7, but I wouldn’t wory too much what newspapers say. I think that the greater majority of this country has no problem with ordinary muslims, but like in Australia, attitudes to people who seem very different is sometimes prejudiced. So even I find the niqab face covering a bit jarring, and driving through East Ham on sunday I saw many.
      At one point two niqabed young women made to cross the road in front of me, (how could I tell but I think I could) and as I slowed for them to cross, one of them looked straight at me and waved her hand in thanks. I couldn’t help but joke with the Hindu woman I was with that maybe she shoudn’t show the plam of her hand to a man like me.
      Some people might see that as me being a bit Islamophobic but I think it’s daft for young British women to adopt the veil.

      In Australia a few years ago it was a friday in Ramadam and I was in that western suburb of Sydney I mentioned above. (I’d gone there specificly to see how this place was). And seeing some guys who looked like Pathan tribesmen (in their dress) walking about, and then a woman in black Saudi style total covering - even gloves, on a boiling hot day, my liberalism was challanged. Of course people have the right to dress how they like … but that lifestyle is not the way of getting on in Australia (is it?)

      Someone mentioned the Cronulla riots of 2005, and yes they were shocking and racist. I’m rather reluctant to put a ”but” in here, but as horrible and outragous as those events were, if you asked alot of Sydneysiders what it was all about, you would hear stories of there being an anti-social element in the Lebanese community that had been making a nuisance of themselves at Sydney beaches for some time.
      And there is definately a beach etiquette at Sydney beaches. Beating up a couple of lifeguards (which is what happened the week before) was an affront to Australian nationhood. Their lifeguards are a revered institution. I’m certainly not excusing anything, but I just read case after case of bad behavior by these ”Lebanese” youths. (For example, the code leaving women sunbathers in peace if you felt that they didn’t want to be disturbed. Not having rowdy soccer games amongst other beach users, or leering and being surly for no reason).

      For days afterwards I was reading the blog of a columnist for the Herrald Sun newspaper and there were hundreds of comments about what had happened to bring about that situation. (As well as most people deploring the riot and the attacks on ethnic minority people).

      Btw, I see that Policy Exchange don’t seem to have a good reputation on Pickled Politics.
      Did anyone read their ”Living apart Together” document?
      About ”British Muslims and the paradox of multiculturalism” From what I’ve read of it, I thought it was very good.
      http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/publication.cgi?id=14

    37. Random Guy — on 4th June, 2009 at 11:13 am  

      Its funny how nearly every topic on PP lately degenerates into a discussion about Muslims and Terrorism.

      Indicative of our times, really…

      With respect, let us try and keep threads on topic.

    38. munir — on 4th June, 2009 at 12:03 pm  

      Jai
      “As for Sid/Faisal, well he’s from a particular age group in the 2nd-generation British Asian population which (compared to their parents) took a much more assertive stance in response to racism & racially-motivated intimidation and was also a strong advocate of “Asian solidarity” regardless of religious affiliation or subcontinental regional origin, so he may be more sympathetic than you assume him to be in relation to your own hypothetical analogy. It might be a good idea to give the guy more credit.”

      I would certainly hope so (though technically he isnt 2nd generation) but given his vitriol against Muslims who dare defend their lands in the Middle East- calling for them to be banned from the UK and at Daud Abdullah of the MCB at signing a declaration calling for Muslims to defend themselves, I doubt it.

      If he thinks Muslims abroad who defend themselves against attackers/invaders are terrorists why would he think diferent of an Asian Muslim who defends himself from a racist skinhead?

    39. munir — on 4th June, 2009 at 12:17 pm  

      Damon
      “Btw, I see that Policy Exchange don’t seem to have a good reputation on Pickled Politics.”

      They dont have a good reputation anywhere since the fiasco over them falsifying mosque bookshop reciepts

      http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/30/exclusive-policy-exchange-forced-to-apologise-takes-report-off-website/

      Go to Youtube and watch the newsnight report and Dean Godsons interview with Paxman

      Theyve admitted this document was false- so why would you believe any other document they wrote about Muslims?

      They are run by the racist Islamophobe Charles Moore and Likudnic Dean Godson - a man so extreme he was sacked from the Telegraph for being TOO pro-Israel

    40. douglas clark — on 4th June, 2009 at 12:19 pm  

      My two pennyworth,

      I recall living in London with some Australians in the late 60′s and some of them had an attitude towards Aboriginies that wasn’t even racist, it was to describe them as a seperate species entirely. I found that quite shocking, not to mention illiterate.

    41. persephone — on 4th June, 2009 at 12:44 pm  

      @ 18: “That Australia is happy for these communities to take root and prosper within it, makes accusations of ”racist Australia” seem somewhat harsh (to my mind).”

      Not convinced that ‘allowing’ immigrants to ‘prosper’ in such jobs makes Oz emancipated. The jobs mentioned are those that are self employed - which may be due to struggling to find work otherwise.

      I certainly did not come across any resident asians employed by Oz companies, or in professional jobs or any jobs with a level of authority on the occasions I visited Oz.

      More (equal) representation at all levels/spheres would better show their credentials for not being perceived as racist

    42. damon — on 4th June, 2009 at 1:13 pm  

      I thought mentioning the story of the ‘Australian Muslim News’ newspaper a couple of weeks after the Bali bombs was significent only because it showed (perhaps) a lack of judgement in that newspaper, when the talk radio airwaves were asking questions of the Muslim community.

      Was it this very unpleasant jihadi opinion that I have heard, where you (as a muslim with a grievance) are only forbiden (if you are living in a non muslim country) from attacking your own country?
      But for example, British muslims wanting to commit violent jihad, could attack France, and French jihadis could simmilarly attack the UK (but not vice versa).
      Have I got that right?

      So on seeing the ”Chechen martyr” caption next to the photo of the dead Chechen fighter in Moscow, I wondered if there might be equaly ambiguous sentiments (in that newspaper in Australia …. and thereby the Australian muslim wider community) about attacks on Indian cities that stemmed from the India/Pakistan situation.

      And Munir, I remember seeing that newsnight programme you talk about. Maybe I should look at it again, but I seem to remember that there were in fact ”extremist” Saudi Arabia printed books and litrature on sale at many Islamic outlets in London.
      I remember the bit about dodgy reciepts, and some Paxman interview were he laid into some Policy Exchange guy about those reciepts.

      I also remember some really dodgy documentary by Richard Littlejohn (of the Daily Mail) where at one point, standing outside an Arabic run newsagent in Edgeware Road in London, he popped into the news agent, and came out with a copy of ”The protocols of the elders of Zion”

      I have little time for Littlejohn, but that was a fair journalist thing to do. That part of Edgeware Road is very much Gulf Arab and (rich) muslim tourist oriented.
      Are ”The protocols …” (or Mein Kampf) really popular reading in some circles in maistream expatriate muslim society?

      douglas clark @ 41.

      I have had the opinion that the leftist ”How do we sleep when our beds are burning” attitude to aborigional Australians was about as bad. (You know, the Midnight Oil song).

      They sang: ”It belongs to them …lets give it back”

      Who are ”them?” These stone age ”others?”

      Is an Aboriginal Australian expected not to be at your cosmopolitan table at a dinner party, or wearing a sharp suit and working in IT? Or to be an architect?

      Should he be out in the bush doing walkabout, like was seen in the ridiculous (but fun) film ‘Australia’?

    43. damon — on 5th June, 2009 at 10:32 am  

      Persephone @ 42 those are some very fair points and I’m not sure about what it’s like.
      New immigrants always go for taxi driving, and running busnisses and creating communities where shops and resturants are seen as the best way of getting on maybe down to racism.

      I’m sure immigrants trying to get into middle class professions may experience some prejudice, and I have always wondered how black british men are under represented in certain jobs. Like for example road crews digging up the roads or laying tarmac.
      Or the guys making speed humps or laying paving.
      The trucking industry was quite white for a long time (but there are more black truckdrivers than there used to be).

      Indian and Chinese students are in Australia in huge numbers, but I’m not sure how high a proportion of Asian Australian citizens are at university, and whether they face racial prejudice when the apply for jobs.

      Just one thing to remember about students from India (or Pakistan) and china. They will be the children of the rich so maybe there is something odd about some of them in the first place.
      Like when I met some young Chinese tourists in Italy a few years ago. They were travelling Europe for a couple of months and I wondered how they got their money. Were they the children of the corrupt elite?

      I remember in Auckland New Zealand there being a lot of Chinese students (who hung about at the north end of Queen Street) and had a reputation for getting cars and not being very experienced drivers.
      In fact I remember a story in the newspaper there that said many of them didn’t even have driving liciences but drove on provisional Chinese liciences that the New Zealand had no idea how to read.

      Here’s a lot of opinions on a Times of India blog:
      http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/onefortheroad/entry/sos-save-our-students

      And wow look at this in Adelade Australia. African youths adopting the LA gang lifestyle.
      http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/racist_gangs_do_exist/

      That is the blog of a guy called Andrew Bolt, and he’s a bit right wing but I found his blog about the riots at Sydney beaches in 2005 very iluminating

      Here is some more of him and reader comments.
      http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/what_racists/
      Interesting stuff. Racist attacks he seems to suggest aren’t simply an Anglo problem but are likely to be perpetrated by local street gangs of many ethnicities.

    44. persephone — on 5th June, 2009 at 3:43 pm  

      Damon, thanks those links were interesting.

      Bolt reminds me of several (caucasian) Ozzies I was sitting with at a dinner in a large venue where I seemed to be the only asian. While we were tucking into a 5 course dinner I mentioned that I had not seen any aborigines during my work visits or when backpacking across a large stretch of Oz.

      Their response was to suggest that was because aborigines were mostly drunks. They were very uncomfortable at being asked why the majority of a whole race had the reputation for being alcoholics. Like Bolt they too appeared to think they were not their/or an Anglo problem.

      For me that was the most telling aspect.

      As to the Chinese in Oz having the reputation for being inexperienced drivers - there were quite a few boy & girl racers of all ethnicities when I was backpacking - mainly because the motorways were not very busy & normally because the surf was up.

      From all this, Ozzies are building themselves quite a reputation.

    45. damon — on 6th June, 2009 at 10:03 am  

      Persephone, I too found those links interesting (and the Links that Andrew Bolt himself made when he highlighted this guy for example):
      http://www.eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2009/03/curry-bashing-on-rise-in-melbourne.html

      That blogger paints a more general patern of gang style violence where the perpetrators come from all communities, and suggests reasons why Indian people seem to have been targeted so much.

      He also reacts in a latter blog to having seen as his measured words have been taken out of context and it’s suggested on other blogs that most of the violent muggers and attackers are non Anglos.

      He seems like someone who knows what he’s talking about, and if you google ”Australian gangs” (or Melbourne gangs, or Sydney gangs) or type any of that into Youtube you’ll see that Australia has its fair share of problems to do with youth gangs of all ethnicities.

      Although I don’t entirely like the sound of that Andrew Bolt guy, I think that it’s very important to listen to people like that and to try to figure out when people like him (somewhat like Jon Gaunt of The Sun) have a point or not. Rather than just coming out with blanket ”Australia is racist” statements.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HumTW4dNruo&feature=related

      Just on Aboriginals in Australia, I don’t claim to be any expert, but the Aboriginal people I saw in Australia were (mostly) in a pretty sorry state, and I have to say that I found this argument by a (to the right by reputation) newspaper columnist called Janet Albrechtsen … where she argued ”The nomadic ideal is killing the indigenous”
      http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20917514-32522,00.html
      As I said, I’m not any expert, but I found myself agreeing with her. And I think a lot of Ausies do too, and people from overseas often see this kind of argument (more bluntly put, like in the dinner setting you describe).

      I’ve never been convinced by the popular leftist position that Aboriginal Australians are forever to be seen as a unique people and are ”naturally tribal” and should continue their traditional culture to the extent that some of them want to do so, at the expense of the welfare of their children.
      Adults can go and live in the bush if they want to, but they shouldn’t be allowed to force that lifestyle on children.

    46. douglas clark — on 6th June, 2009 at 12:26 pm  

      damon @ 43,

      An Aborigine is entitled to exactly the same respect as a White or Brown person. If they want to work in IT, or they want to go walkabout that is personal, not political. What is political is categorising another group of humans as non-human. I tend to be against that sort of thing.

      damon @ 46,

      What is this with ‘Stone Age’? I’m fairly confident the Aboriginies led vibrant and interesting lives before Captain Cook arrived. The time since, not so much.

    47. damon — on 6th June, 2009 at 12:42 pm  

      Douglas Clark, I’ve only got a few minutes, and I just saw your post just now. But on your first point: I absolutly agree. But where did the ‘non human’ thing come in? - (in recent years I mean).

      On your second point about ”stone age” and vibrant lives. ”Aboriginies led vibrant and interesting lives before Captain Cook arrived.”
      I’m sure they did. But that was then and this is now.
      My Irish ancestors probably lived in caves, and later ones in smokey hovels and subsided on potatoes and catholicism. But I see no future in that lifestyle for myself.
      I don’t mean to be glib. The Aborigional issue is a big and complex one, but I feel that the link I did about ”The nomadic ideal is killing the indigenous” was a serious one, and one that I tried to put across on another (very) left wing forum I was on … but it was too much for them and it was rejected and ignored almost unamiously.

    48. damon — on 6th June, 2009 at 12:55 pm  

      Can I just add another thing that I’ve just come across while typing things into google and Youtube?

      You know how in that thread ”Reaction to Obama’s speech, from good to the insane” where there were the Israeli nutjobs with all their drunken opinions? (were some of them Americans? They sounded like Americans)…

      …well here is a disturbing video that sheds some light on the causes of the the racist Sydney beach riots of 2005 (and the revenge attack by ”Lebanese” youths, driving there in several cars a week later) to the beachside suburb of Cronulla ..
      ..well have a listen to this youtube put out by (very immature, but provocative) youths of Lebanoese origin.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDztjPzvSM&feature=related
      Should all this be put down to disturbing (but at the end of the day) just juvenile tetesterone fueled glamour gang stuff?

      I actually kind of like the Arabic music back riff, mixed in with the violent (bragging) rap lyrics.

    49. douglas clark — on 6th June, 2009 at 1:18 pm  

      damon,

      My post @ 41 did say the ’60′s.

      Err, that was the 1960′s. So’s it’s within living memory. Well mine anyway.

      I certainly hope that attitudes have changed for the better since then. The freedom to chose your lifestyle - within the obvious caveats - without being demonised by a majority population, is partly what a democracy is supposed to be about.

      You appear to be quite the world traveller, so here’s a question for you. Is there any place on Earth that Europeans settled where they didn’t demonise the indigenous population as inferior in some way or another? Perhaps, New Zealand, maybe…

      Don’t get me wrong. I do not want to live in a cave either, but that is my choice. Destroying other peoples’ choices seems to me to have been a theme of the colonial era. Cue Rumbold.

    50. damon — on 6th June, 2009 at 1:55 pm  

      Yes Douglas, from what I understand, the 60′s (and 70′s and 80′s) was a grim time in Australian/ Aboriginal common understanding.
      And maybe even to this day.
      I don’t really know, I have spent 5 months in Australia and that’s it. (over two visits)

      You said ”Is there any place on Earth that Europeans settled where they didn’t demonise the indigenous population as inferior in some way or another? Perhaps, New Zealand, maybe”

      I doubt it, the Brits (after coming up against fierce Maori defence in New Zealand certainly respected the culturle that they knew they had to subjudicate), but they always went on till the last ”native” was subjucated.

      But that doesn’t mean that i support the racial politicla divide that exists in New Zealand today.
      With Anglos (called Pākehā) and ‘natives’ and more recent immigrants being pitched against each other in politics.

    51. Eurasian Sensation — on 6th June, 2009 at 2:53 pm  

      As an Australian who actually knows something about this, I feel I should add something to this thread, in which the talk about Australia is largely conjecture from people who’ve never lived here.

      (Damon @ 46, thanks for the link to my blog.)

      Persephone @ 42, I can assure you that Asians (both Eastern and Southern varieties) are well-represented in most spheres of business and society in Australia. Certain fields - IT, the corporate sector, medicine, dentistry, pharmacy - are disproportionally dominated by Asians.

      platinum786 @ 5 - Australian an openly racist society? You don’t know what you are talking about, mate. Of course there is racism, as there is everywhere. I haven’t been to the UK since I was small, but from my general understanding, the level of racism is fairly similar. When John Howard took a tough stand on immigration, there was plenty of outrage, believe me. One reason his stance gained broad support was the sustained propaganda campaign his government ran to demonise asylum seekers. Many of the asylum seekers were Muslim as well, which increased the apprehension about them. Post 9-11, these fears are unreasonable but understandable nonetheless.
      Anytime someone in the public sphere tries to whip up racist sentiment, there are a greater number of voices that emerge to condemn that sentiment.
      Many Australians deny accusations of racism, and this is for several reasons. For some, this is reality as they see it - many of us, particularly the children of migrants, and the educated cosmopolitan urbanites, embrace multiculturalism wholeheartedly. Because we have a legacy of quite overt official racism pre-1970, most Australians are quite eager to prove that we have moved on from those dark days.

      Yet at the same time there are many Australians who are extremely suspicious of difference, and decry multicultural policies every time someone with a foreign name commits a wrongdoing. Many Anglo-Australians feel resentment at their perception that different ethnic communities get special treatment, or when migrants don’t want to wholeheartedly embrace Aussie cultural norms.

    52. Shamit — on 6th June, 2009 at 10:35 pm  

      “Of course there is racism, as there is everywhere. I haven’t been to the UK since I was small, but from my general understanding, the level of racism is fairly similar.”

      I was born and bred in the UK and I used to go to Australia almost fortnightly for work when I was based in Singapore. I was actually working for a company advising your Government. And this was only a decade ago. And once I made a scene and they were surprised at Sydney airport when I demanded an apology and thought I was a bit uppity.

      And I have traveled, studied and worked in over 4 continents and numerous countries — and I abhor using the racism card.

      And I have experienced first hand racism and institutional racism in Australia — I think you need to visit UK before you put us the Brits on the same racist platform as Australia.

      There is no comparison — even some Aussies who come here think that British Asians and others are somehow inferior even though they are the legal aliens here.

      Why did the head of Telstra (admitted he was not much of a success in that role) claim that it was like stepping back in time.

    53. Ravi Naik — on 6th June, 2009 at 11:54 pm  

      And this was only a decade ago. And once I made a scene and they were surprised at Sydney airport when I demanded an apology and thought I was a bit uppity.

      What happened, Shamit?

    54. drew — on 8th June, 2009 at 1:06 am  

      Aussies are generally a very racist and aggressive people. Their being down under often downplays this fact, but in australia, the race dynamic has remained basically unchanged since WWII. Anywhere one looks in the australian media or jurisprudence, whether it is race relations (Aborigines) or their views on immigrants from south east and far east asia, the Iraq and afghanistan wars (which now even uncle sam wants to distance itself from), one finds evidence of uneven-handedness and a vicious hate filled insularity. As far as the india issue goes, this stuff is not new and has been going on for decades. Its just being highlighted by the incredible india media brigade. Remember. If you are a person of color in this world, the system is not loaded in your favor, You are still seen by all the whiteys as an inferior, colonized barbarian. Australia, Texas, Middlesex….. its all just the bloody same. Indian often have a naive view of the western world, let us hope that these shameful incidents have shown them that old attitudes die hard!

    55. damon — on 8th June, 2009 at 1:01 pm  

      Eurasian Sensation @ 52, I linked to your blog because I found it to be the best thing on this subject that I had come across …. and all thanks to reading the (somewhat reactionary) Andrew Bolt’s blog who had yours as a link on his.

      For those who missed it, here it is again
      http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2009/06/curry-bashing-what-ethnicity-are.html

    56. Eurasian Sensation — on 8th June, 2009 at 2:23 pm  

      The Brits are talking about how racist Australia is. In other news, the BNP wins record support…

      Listen, I can give you plenty of anecdotes about racism in Australia too; but many comments on this thread simply lack proportion, or context.

      Drew @ 55 - i can’t believe that you are using the Iraq and Afghanistan wars as evidence of Aussies’ “racist and aggressive nature”. Those would be the same wars that Britain led the charge into, right?

      The reason that the recent violence against Indian students is so noteworthy is that it is an aberration in a society that is, generally speaking, tolerant and safe. Racism is always lurking somewhere on a small scale, but has not translated into overt violence for a long, long time. Again, my knowledge of the UK only goes so far, but y’all have had more than your fair share of overtly racist incidents and racial rioting which have no parallel in recent Australian history.

      Truth be told, I don’t want to get dragged into one-upmanship over which country is more racist, because it’s beside the point.

      There are different sides to a society. Is Australia a multicultural paradise or a country stricken by entrenched racism? I’d argue that it is both, simultaneously.

    57. Soso — on 9th June, 2009 at 6:31 pm  

      The BBC is now reporting that the perps were men of “Middle Eastern” appearance and weren’t Whites at all.

      And to judge by the quality of Austrialia’s Muslim “leadership”, it wouldn’t surprise me.

      So all of the anti-white comments here are just plain old racism.

    58. Mosaman — on 10th June, 2009 at 12:05 am  

      The level of hypocricy in these comments is mind-boggling. “I’ve never been to Australia, but they’re all a bunch of backward and racist, convict thugs”, what absoloute dribble!

      Now, that the reports coming out show that the attackers (at least in some cases) are Middle Eastern, now what? Are we going to call them racist, and march down the path of biggotry towards Arabs? I highly doubt it.

    59. Eurasian Sensation — on 13th June, 2009 at 2:59 pm  

      The incidents involving Middle Eastern men are primarily in West Sydney, where there has been a long- standing problem with Lebanese gang violence, and where Indians are gradually taking over neighbourhoods that were previously dominated by Lebanese.
      In Melbourne, there has been a different set of factors, and the ethnicities of attackers have been varied - white, african, middle eastern, asian, pacific islander.

    60. damon — on 13th June, 2009 at 3:22 pm  

      I think this subject has ‘passed by’ on Pickled Politics by now Eurasian Sensation.
      It seems that’s the way things work here.
      I would really like to stay on an issue like this one for weeks, but today everyone’s talking about the BNP.

      I took a few trips out to West Sydney (to Auburn and Lakemba), and to Liverpool and Campbelltown, so it was interesting to see places like this
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn,_New_South_Wales
      well away from the normal tourist spots of Sydney.

      I spent a couple of days in Cronulla too, so when the riots happened there the next year I was really shocked by what happened, and read loads of stuff about it. (Not forgettig the revenge attacks that started out from west Sydney one night a week later

      One interesting article that was the front page of (perhaps) The Age was an indepth anaylasis of the diferences (both historical and geographical) between Sydney and Melbourne. As well as NSW being historically a harsher place than Victoria (it said), it was also the geography of the western suburbs of Sydney that in places were really cut off and marooned from the rest of the city in a way that Melbourne wasn’t so much. and that parts of west Sydney had some of the same isolation problems that failing parts of Los Angeles had experienced. (Transport, jobs, housing etc).

    61. dr prabir lahiri — on 15th June, 2009 at 9:15 am  

      why indians are opted for third grade australian university ? there are plenty of opportunities here in India.

    62. nikhil gupta — on 17th September, 2009 at 8:05 pm  

      Its a pity to see Australian Administration be so week on its knees to tackle a trival issue which is now growing as a roaring sentiment to become a huge problem for immigrants. It is creating not only a negative impact but a wrong message across the whole Australian society within n outside.

      I dont know the lack of response from authorities is driven by Politics and Economies of Scale as Australian education is churning universities n colleges faster than labour factories in 3rd world countries. Now any democratic country which wants to grow in the coming Decade has to not only learn to be tolerent n accept other cultures but be open to muti ethnic cultural societies. Only then can you think of creating a Muti facet global talent which will put you right on course to compete n integrate with the Growing economies which includes on tonly US and UK but mainly BRIC (Brasil, Russia, India, China). Today india and China form 1/3rd of the world population 2.2 billion strong out of 6.3 billion. With the shift is trade and economies if the Western socities dont learn to adapt swiftly n respect corss cultutal attitutes i bet in the coming 25 years they will not only be Left behind but be left out. Life come full circle where countries like China , India, Brazil adapted to western trends n patterns to adapt , learn , unlearn from a western school of thought. We developed skills n processes to learn about Systems, Technologies, and businesses in process by process. With Idia, China, Brazil displaying more competetiveness, n learning the businesses over a period of 20 years since the boom of internet , Off shoring and Liberation of Open Trade, these countries now r equiped with infrastructure n manpower n Financial reserves to built the next Platform for Global Leadership and Enterprenourship talent. The next 20 years will see the developing nations take on the high curve to expand and take over business in the West. We now just need to learn leading n managing the management bandwidth across Western hubs of Economies.

      Australia dont cover up. Grow up . take accountability n learn to Adjust in Multi ethnic society…Watch out world we are behind your back.

    63. nikhil gupta — on 17th September, 2009 at 8:40 pm  

      Its a pity to see Australian administration be so week on its knees to tackle a trival issue, which is now growing as a roaring sentiment and is swiftly becoming a huge problem for immigrants in Australia. The cause is yet to be fully understood which is having this kind of effect. may be its the job scare in the west n insecurity about westeners, or may be inability to accept or adapt to other cultures. Or may be more remoseless like being truly racism driven. What ever the variables of the equation i hope this is not what Australia wants.

      This uproar in the Age of Web 2.0 and Symetric information-age is creating not only a negative impact but also sending a wrong message across the whole Australian society within n outside its boundries.

      I dont know the lack of response from authorities is driven by Politics or simply by Economies of Scale as Australian education is churning universities n colleges faster than labour factories in 3rd world countries.
      Now any democratic n Secular country which wants to grow in the coming decade has to not only learn to be tolerent n accept other cultures but also be open to muti-ethnic cultural societies n Groups. Then n only then can you think of creating a truly Muti facet global talent which will put you right on course to create world class Infrastructure, Businesses , Economies etc and leverage your resources to make you compete n integrate with the Growing n Giant economies which includes not not only US and UK etc but mainly BRIC (Brasil, Russia, India, China).
      Today india and China form 1/3rd of the world population 2.2 billion strong out of 6.2 billion. With the shift in trade and economies if the Western socities dont learn to adapt swiftly n respect corss cultutal attitutes i bet in the coming 25 years they will not only be Left behind in the curve but be left out in the next 50 years. Life comes a full circle where countries like China , India, Brazil adapted earlier on to western trends n patterns to adapt , learn , unlearn from a western school of thought to grow ourselves from Survivebility to sustainabilty . We in developing nation went through the grind to develop skills n processes to learn about Systems, Technologies, and Businesses in process by process part by Part. Now With India, China, Brazil displaying more competitiveness, n learning the businesses n Trade over a period of 20 years especially since the explosion of internet , Off shoring and Liberation of Open Trade n Free Economy, these countries are now equiped with infrastructure, manpower n Financial reserves to built the next Platform for Global Leadership and Enterprenourship talent.
      The next 20 years will see the developing nations take on the high curve to expand, Start and acquire business in the West. We now just need to learn leading n managing the management bandwidth across the Western hubs n Economies n Lead talent at the global stage.
      Australia dont cover up. Grow up . Take accountability, Clean the Mess… n learn to Adjust in Multi ethnic society…Watch out world we (BRIC) are behind your back.

    64. ridwanzero — on 29th December, 2009 at 8:56 am  

      I find Australia’s approach an interesting one to analyze.. “25% reduction if there is an agreement where major developing economies commit to substantially reduce emissions and advanced economies take on commitments comparable to Australia’s.”

      In a broader context, these terms leak the good intentions of countries who rightfully feel betrayed by the biggest polluters. Not only would a more responsible U.S. approach to emissions reduction be better for the physical world in and of itself, but, based on the terms of the Australian agreement, there would be an upward spiral to include more countries who would not want to bear an uneven cost of higher emissions standards. ……….

      onlineuniversalwork

    65. vinny gorgorino — on 1st February, 2010 at 9:20 am  

      if any of u people feel thatuu have been racially hurt den maybe u shoud get protection from organisations like ours.

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