Racist thugs


by Rumbold
25th May, 2009 at 4:18 pm    

There’s no other name for them:

“Nine people were arrested yesterday after trouble flared during a protest march against supposed Muslim extremists…

Yesterday there were about 500 protesters, some carrying banners with slogans such as “No Sharia Law in the UK” and “Respect our Troops”. Several cars were damaged after a small group split off from the march. An Asian-owned business had its windows smashed. In Stuart Street in the town centre, police drew batons. Mounted police and officers in riot gear were used to try to control the mob and stones were thrown.”


(Via Harry’s Place and Bartholomew’s Notes)


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  1. Roger Clague — on 25th May, 2009 at 5:22 pm  

    Calling names is the wrong response to this news.

    I agree with both slogans and the right to hold a street demonstration. What does Rumbold not agree with?

    Out of 500 angry people a small group smashed one window.
    That is not a riot.

    Well done to the peaceful and well organised people of Luton.

  2. marvin — on 25th May, 2009 at 5:48 pm  

    All 500 are racist thugs? Some are racist thugs. The ones in the pictures no doubt!

    Those committing criminal damage or assault as with the Asian man should be arrested and charged in accordance with the law.

    And this was not a riot. The riot act needs to be read by the commanding officer. You can rely on The Sun to spice things up!

  3. sonia — on 25th May, 2009 at 5:51 pm  

    How many people smashed in the window? Was that condoned by people waving a banner ‘no to sharia law’ – or was it the usual sort of thing that happens in a protest, where the whole protest is smeared as being ‘thugs’ of some kind or other (anti-capitalist) usually. In terms of media reporting, it is usually very hard to gauge the truth about a demonstration – unless you yourself are there, or you know something about the groups.
    I don’t see that there is enough information on this demonstration to be able to decide they are ‘all’ racist thugs. They might well be, but not necessarily for holding up a NO to Sharia sign. I might well be waving such a sign, is it implicit that if people are opposed to Sharia, they are automatically racist?
    who were these people ? do we know?

  4. David O'Keefe — on 25th May, 2009 at 5:54 pm  

    The comments below the article in the times are a sight to behold. Right-wingers cheering them on from Vietnam and Germany, along with others blaming the liberals and the economy for the disturbances/riot.

    How about that eh, Right-wingers using poverty to excuse violence, isn’t that a liberal position. The contradictions and hypocrisy on show is breathtaking, especially as Choudary and his merry band of muslim morons, only carried a few nasty placards. Doesn’t take much to get some people going.

  5. sonia — on 25th May, 2009 at 5:58 pm  

    Yes media reporting is interesting, I’d followed the link to the Times article when i posted my comment. Have now looked at the Harry’s Place post, and the photos posted there certainly make them look like National Front types or sth, and the Daily Mail seems to think that they were racist (and obviously cheering them on!). I’ve no idea what Luton is like so can’t comment, but there you go, so much for clarity from the media reporting.

  6. Vikrant — on 25th May, 2009 at 6:30 pm  

    I’ve no idea what Luton

    Luton is like 30% Asian i think…

  7. marvin — on 25th May, 2009 at 6:36 pm  
  8. mailer — on 25th May, 2009 at 7:47 pm  

    2006 estimates

    Asian 19.8%

  9. Rumbold — on 25th May, 2009 at 8:32 pm  

    I am sorry I did not make clear that I didn’t think all the protesters were racist thugs. Just the ones who were (i.e. the violent, Asian-attacking ones).

  10. The Common Humanist — on 25th May, 2009 at 9:46 pm  

    I think we can all agree these people are nasty violent thugs.

    Interesting comment a relative came out with the other day at a wedding (bear with me and don’t shoot the messenger) ’2M Muslims is welcome cultural diversity. 8M is a civil war’. NOw I agree with him on the first point and disagree on the second but what struck me upon reflection is just how perceptive that could be – whilst most people can get along with difference very well there is always a % that can’t. My relatives point being that at some point between the current 2 1/2 M Muslims and a (highly) speculative 8M muslim population the point of tolerance of either the resident UK population or that of the immigrant will be tested to the extreme.

    Phew, and I only wanted small talk at a family occasion….!!

    So in the interest in spreading mental pain around please discuss as I had to at said event….

  11. The Common Humanist — on 25th May, 2009 at 9:51 pm  

    As an addendum I think the chap has a point – historically speaking often societies don’t react well to such large numbers of newcomers.

    I think what perturbed me was how immediate this situation seemed to be to this person. I mean, I don’t think that number of muslims will ever immigrate to the UK ever, let alone in the next few years so I wonder how much of a role the right wing media has to play in this growing paranoia???????????

  12. billericaydicky — on 26th May, 2009 at 8:05 am  

    It would seem at the moment that there was no BNP involvement as an organisation although doubtless there were members present.

    All I know of Luton is that going from the station to the airport every cab driver is Asian and this is one of the reasons why locals feel discriminated against.

    Although it was only a small minority of Muslims that protested against the march of the Royal Anglians the feeling nationally is that Asians generally and Muslims in particular are anti British.

    What the left don’t realise is that while the wars may be unpopular there is a great respect for the armed forces in this country that stems from the Second World War in particular but goes back a long way.

    The issue of Sharia law is a real hot potato and no amount of comparison to the Jewish Beth Din tribunals will suffice here. What differentiates Islam from other religions is that there is an element that wishes to convert, by force if necessary, the whole world.

    The other element is that of shock at the rapid change in the racial and religious make up of the country. While the race relations industry, fortunately now being rolled back, urges people to celebrate diversity a substntial minority of white people will say that they wee never asked if they wanted the changes that have happened.

    One of the lies perpetrated by the industry is that multi culturalism “enriches” society. The argument that comes from this is that mono cultural societies are “impoverished” so what does that make most of the world?

  13. platinum786 — on 26th May, 2009 at 9:25 am  

    What’s the problem with 8 million Muslims? We don’t stop anyone else from breeding or immigrating.

    As an addendum I think the chap has a point – historically speaking often societies don’t react well to such large numbers of newcomers.

    The historical actions of people do not justify this racist thuggery. The fact of the matter is that Society has changed and we’re now obliged to accept immigrants and gays and a variety of other things society did not accept in the past. These same people also like to use the history of Hilter and his Nazi party as an example, we can’t be seen to be advocating that can we.

    I welcome a more Muslim Europe. I don’t think we’ll see it quite to the extents the right wing try to make out, but even if we did, so what? Does Islam not have a right to exist in Europe? Do Muslims not have the right to legally migrate and populate Europe?

    If the right wing want a fight, they know where to get one.

  14. David O'Keefe — on 26th May, 2009 at 10:01 am  

    BK your starting to turn into a parody of yourself.

    http://tinyurl.com/pus9qe

  15. damon — on 26th May, 2009 at 10:14 am  

    Definitely an ignorant rabble from what I’ve seen.
    It was organised by a group called ‘United people of Luton’ and here is their website:
    http://saveluton.com/
    Notice the Luton Town Foootball Club badge on it.
    They’re a bunch of Luton FC hooligans by the look of it.

    I have no time for them whatsoever, but do look at a couple of small details in this youtube viedo.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpDrgrxrR3c&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsaveluton%2Eagilityhoster%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded
    Amongst the placards denouncimg ”muslim extremists” there are a couple saying ”NF go to Hell”.
    And if you stop it at 4 minutes 52 seconds, one of them is clearly of Asian origin.
    And at 8 minutes, there’s a young lad who looks black or mixed race.
    A very unwelcome development (this demonstration), and I’d hope that young muslims localy, didn’t start thinking the way to react to this was by upping the anti themselves.
    Young men get excited by stuff like this, whether it’s at football or some trouble with an ”us verses them” thing to it. Same thing happens in gang turf wars.

    I don’t know if Luton people would feel ”resentment” about a majority of cab drivers being Asian (these days). I would have thought things might have got beyond that (in a place so close to London anyway – up north might be different, but Luton?)

  16. Libero — on 26th May, 2009 at 11:28 am  

    I welcome a more Muslim Europe

    It would be nice if Muslims integrated more first of all, ceased all extremist hatred, Jihadism ended in the UK, backward practises that are widespread like forced marriage and honour crimes ended, and so on and so on. Muslims shouldn’t try to alter the culture of Europe in terms of basic and fundamental issues like free speech, the right to criticise religions and religious figures, freedom and equality for women, including freedom to choose your own marriage partner, and also if Muslims as one denounced the Islamic insistence on apostasy being punishable by death and persecution and ostracism. An end to all calls to privelige sharia law over common law would be the ultimate sign that Islam is prepared to integrate into Britain and Europe, and not change it to suit its own culture.

    Also, an end to the hectoring that any criticism of Islam and Islamic practises are motivated by the nonsensical moniker called ‘Islamophobia’ or that it is motivated by racism to wish for the elements of Islam and cultural values and practises as enunciated above to dissapear in Europe.

    That would be a fantastic start.

  17. munir — on 26th May, 2009 at 12:16 pm  

    Common Humanist

    “Interesting comment a relative came out with the other day at a wedding (bear with me and don’t shoot the messenger) ‘2M Muslims is welcome cultural diversity. 8M is a civil war’. NOw I agree with him on the first point and disagree on the second but what struck me upon reflection is just how perceptive that could be – whilst most people can get along with difference very well there is always a % that can’t. My relatives point being that at some point between the current 2 1/2 M Muslims and a (highly) speculative 8M muslim population the point of tolerance of either the resident UK population or that of the immigrant will be tested to the extreme.”

    I believe this was a popular view about Jews in 1930s Germany and Poland

  18. billericaydicky — on 26th May, 2009 at 12:22 pm  

    Just had a look at the Luton website and they are asking for the unity of all groups to oppose extremism. Of course this could be a clever ploy to make us all think that they are not a BNP front. Fiendishly clever what?

  19. munir — on 26th May, 2009 at 12:56 pm  

    Libero
    “It would be nice if Muslims integrated more first of all, ceased all extremist hatred, Jihadism ended in the UK, backward practises that are widespread like forced marriage and honour crimes ended, and so on and so on. Muslims shouldn’t try to alter the culture of Europe in terms of basic and fundamental issues like free speech, the right to criticise religions and religious figures, freedom and equality for women, including freedom to choose your own marriage partner, and also if Muslims as one denounced the Islamic insistence on apostasy being punishable by death and persecution and ostracism. An end to all calls to privelige sharia law over common law would be the ultimate sign that Islam is prepared to integrate into Britain and Europe, and not change it to suit its own culture.

    Also, an end to the hectoring that any criticism of Islam and Islamic practises are motivated by the nonsensical moniker called ‘Islamophobia’ or that it is motivated by racism to wish for the elements of Islam and cultural values and practises as enunciated above to dissapear in Europe.”

    It would be nice before you criticise a religion to actually know what it teaches. Forecd marriage and honour killings are both forbidden in islam so criticising Islam for them is wrong. they are also done by non-Muslims so why you single out Muslims is anyones guess. I love the bit “Muslims as one denouce” – which essentailly is colelctive blame and collective guilt on the Muslim community

    You demand an end to extremist hatred- what about extremist hatred against Muslims? Why is the latter “Freedom of speech” and not the former?

    The calls for integration are a smokescreen- it was the most integrated/assimiliated European Jewish community and the most secular assimiliated Muslims (teh Bosnians- indigenous Europeans) who were annihiliated. When is European going to give up its genocidal tendencies against minorities ?

  20. munir — on 26th May, 2009 at 12:57 pm  

    Libero
    “Also, an end to the hectoring that any criticism of Islam and Islamic practises are motivated by the nonsensical moniker called ‘Islamophobia’ or that it is motivated by racism to wish for the elements of Islam and cultural values and practises as enunciated above to dissapear in Europe.”

    Actually Islamohopobia means hatred against Muslims not criticisim of Islam. Though when Islam is uniquely criticised thats clearly biased

  21. cjcjc — on 26th May, 2009 at 1:53 pm  

    NB “phobia” means fear or fear of, not hatred

  22. platinum786 — on 26th May, 2009 at 3:02 pm  

    Libero how about we meet half way. We’ll quite gadly do those things as soon as the Christians of Europe stop the sexual abuse of children by the catholics, stop the nationwide alchoholism in the UK and stop the use of Class A drugs throughout upper and middle class society.

    It would also be dandy if you stopped the discrimination of people along the lines of race and religion, and reverse such actions like the headscarf bans in France. Your flip flopping between positions on homosexuality does not help either as you claim your relgion forbids it, yet your ministers practise it, whilst your state bans the marraige of homosexuals, yet allows them to raise children. We just don’t know whether to bash them or to tolerate them, you guys don’t have an official line on it.

    This is of course relevant to Europe and Christians in the same way your drivel was relevant to Islam and Muslims. Where do we attract these idiots from? Somebody hand out free contraceptives in that part of the country.

  23. munir — on 26th May, 2009 at 3:27 pm  

    cjcj

    “NB “phobia” means fear or fear of, not hatred”

    No that is one meaning

    OK so homophobia means people who are scared of gays and isnt appropriate to use for those who hate gays.

    “A number of terms with the suffix -phobia are primarily understood as negative attitudes towards certain categories of people or other things, used in an analogy with the medical usage of the term. Usually these kinds of “phobias” are described as fear, dislike, disapproval, prejudice, hatred, discrimination, or hostility towards the object of the “phobia”. Often this attitude is based on prejudices and is a particular case of general xenophobia.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia

  24. bananabrain — on 26th May, 2009 at 3:47 pm  

    I believe this was a popular view about Jews in 1930s Germany and Poland

    except, of course, that jewish extremists didn’t blow up buses and trains in 1930s germany and poland, nor did they hold demonstrations about how all germans were going to have to convert or die, albeit even if they had done they still wouldn’t have deserved to be exterminated in death camps.

    i love how these islamists continually play the “we’re the new jews” card without actually being at all like the jews of the nazi era in demeanour, behaviour or political programme.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  25. chavscum — on 26th May, 2009 at 3:54 pm  

    The fact that a small local demo can gather 500 people is quite worrying. You are deluding yourself if you believe these are just racist thugs or BNP activists. They have local issues in Luton with Islamic extremism, as anyone familiar with the area will testify, and the demo at the soldiers parade will have brought the problem to a head. There appears to be a growing number of independent groups either opposing Islamic extremists or promoting Englishness or Britishness. Some of them have football fan links, not because they are hooligans, but because football is one of the few things that brings together like-minded working-class people. However, the underlying trend of rapid change due to mass immigration, the associated problems, disadvantages and increasing social and cultural segregation experienced by the lower classes will motivate more people, despite the patronising and increasingly hollow rhetoric from the left-liberal ruling elite.

    Personally, I feel their anger is misdirected. The problems associated with large scale immigration and the anger it stirs should not be directed at new arrivals. Instead, it should be aimed at the white middle-class Left.

  26. Adnan — on 26th May, 2009 at 4:17 pm  

    BD @ 12

    “All I know of Luton is that going from the station to the airport every cab driver is Asian and this is one of the reasons why locals feel discriminated against.”

    So those cab drivers aren’t counted as “locals” – pathetic ?

    Agreed with the issue of the military.

    “The issue of Sharia law is a real hot potato” – only if folks believe that the most notorious examples of the criminal code are going to be imposed on the whole of society. If it’s for the kind of things that Beth Din are used for i.e. discretionary and used for weddings and the like then the comparison is a fair one.

  27. blah — on 26th May, 2009 at 5:11 pm  

    bananabrain
    “except, of course, that jewish extremists didn’t blow up buses and trains in 1930s germany and poland,”

    Are you seriously suggesting that individual Jewish anarchists and communists werent involved in acts of terror or assasinations in Europe at that time and before? Jewish Revolutionaries like Rosa Luxembourg staged insurrections against the state and tried to set up their own state.

    And individual Jewish members of the KGB and NKVD were responsible for the deaths not of tens of people but of millions

    http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    Large Jewish participation in red terrors in Eastern Europe was seized upon by anti-Semites much as Islamophobes seize on acts by terrorists of Muslim background.

    “nor did they hold demonstrations about how all germans were going to have to convert or die,”

    Er didnt a Jewish-American called Theodore Kaufman write a book called “Germany Must Perish” advocating that all Germans be forcibly sterilised and Germany as a state be extinguished?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Must_Perish

    “albeit even if they had done they still wouldn’t have deserved to be exterminated in death camps.”

    Quite but you seem to be imply that all Muslim DO though- no matter how much you cover it- the original poster said Muslims not “Islamists”

  28. blah — on 26th May, 2009 at 5:19 pm  

    banana brain

    “i love how these islamists continually play the “we’re the new jews” card without actually being at all like the jews of the nazi era in demeanour, behaviour or political programme.”

    Perhaps you want us to forget that the last time there were concentration camps (and rape camps) in Europe they were not filled with Jews but with Muslims

    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/07/26/Trnopolje10b.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_s6zY8-yAuYc/SKJQa3J5NKI/AAAAAAAABCI/bRQ-3WuQX0Q/s400/Trnopolje+Concentration+Camp+in+Prijedor+Bosnia.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_s6zY8-yAuYc/SKJX7sTSwaI/AAAAAAAABCo/3t-rzsDW1Ow/s320/Trnopolje+Concentration+Camp+in+Bosnia.jpg

    And this was is all our living memories

  29. Golam Murtaza — on 26th May, 2009 at 7:50 pm  

    “Resentment” at most cab drivers being Asian?! I’d like to see the people who feel this resentment have a go at driving taxis themselves and experience the abuse and violence Asian drivers have to put up with from some scummy passengers after dark and at weekends. I wonder how long they’d last in the job?

  30. Adnan — on 26th May, 2009 at 8:33 pm  

    Golam @ 29

    Heh, heh, it’s their country so they’re free abuse and beat up a few “ethnics”. If you don’t like it then you know where you can go ;)

  31. damon — on 28th May, 2009 at 10:36 am  

    blah @ 28

    I think that statements like this are ridiculous
    ”We’re victimised like Jews by the Nazis, says Muslim leader”
    That was the chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque two years ago.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1319076.ece

    Back to the Luton demonstration. I wouldn’t be that alarmed at what happened just yet. Given the nature of that football hooligan mentality, things like that are bound to happen from time to time.
    They are complete idiots (and Islamophobes from hearing some of the things they were shouting) … but, you’d be surprised if there wasn’t this reaction from time to time.
    Just like the anger directed at MP’s at the moment, (where these ‘frustrations’ in the wider electorate have been a long time coming), it could be argued that ”Middle England” and the ‘lumpenproletariat’ have felt goaded by Islamism for some time now.

    I think it is legitimate for people to be angry about the actions of foriegn soldiers in Muslim countries, and I don’t ”support our troops” in the way that people in Luton turned out to cheer them home in march.
    And although it was only a dozen or so nutters from the wider muslim population, they really knew how to get people’s backs up.
    Better the wider muslim community in Luton (in my opinion) ostracise the Islamists amongst them, than for there to be excited talk of ”defending Muslim neighbourhoods from attack”. (Although if Muslims really were getting attacked then they have every right to defend themselves).

    Lastly, on those immages from Bosnia.
    As terrible as that war was, it wasn’t a war on Muslims (was it?)
    I had always seen it as a three-way civil war brought about by the crazy way in which the multi-faith country of Yougoslavia was broken up.
    Slovenia might have just about been OK as it was largly homogeneous. But Croatia was a mistake. And then Bosnia followed suit, when even I had heard that if war started there, it would be worse than what happened in Croatia.
    The idea amonst many muslims that this was just another part of the world wide war on muslims, is (in my opinion) a mistaken one.
    I was walking through Sarajevo a few years ago, and in the main commercial area, one of the shops was decked out as an Islamic cultural center, sponsored by the Islamic Republic of Iran.
    ”That’s the last thing they need here” were my thoughts on seeing it.

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