It is NOT an issue of race or religion.

In the current of fear and hostility towards Muslims in particular and “foreigners” in general, the press emphasises race and religion as it attracts prurient interest.

We should not be fooled. This case does not reflect cultural, religious or racial values, but is simply a case of a group of predatory men that have found a vulnerable group to exploit.

The new twist to the Muslim paedophile gang scandals emerged when Radio 5 Live broadcast a documentary on Sunday 18th September. This revealed that: “Hundreds of white girls, many as young as 12, are being lured into a world of group sex and prostitution by gangs of British born Pakistani men from West and South Yorkshire. The girls are being introduced to their future pimps by their classmates, often the brothers and cousins of these older men.”

Writing about the programme on the website Asians in Media, Sunny Hundal revealed that the police unit to investigate these disgusting racist crimes was closed down as soon as the media spotlight cast on the issue by last year’s Channel 4 ‘Edge of the City’ programme (that Chief Constable Cramphorn had postponed until after the European Elections, lest it benefit the BNP) had shifted away. He went on to describe the way in which “many, including the local community leaders (useless themselves in this), say the police are too afraid to tackle the issue – too politically correct and unwilling to disturb racial and religious sensibilities…. This is political correctness gone mad.”

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

Thats a seperate issue to implying catholic men are paedophiles.

Are these men finding it easier to operate because of a reluctance to ‘break ranks’? are the victims at all perceived as less worthy of protection because they are outside the community?

There have been posts on BC about people being abused within their own familys. I don’t think its complete speculation to suggest that its easier for someone to overlook suffering when its not part of their ‘own community’ (as abhorent as that is) but id hazzard a guess that a reluctance to break ranks is as much if not more a result of a strictly patriarchal social setup probably combined with misogyny.

Is there a sense that they have conrtibuted to their own abuse by a perceived ‘easiness’? On this last point, it is not unknown for senior judges to make exactly that despicable assumption.

From the POV of the abuser, quite obviously yes. That doesn’t make it ‘true’ to any rational individual however. Id be interested to know which senior judges in which cases made that assumption.

On the ‘cultural’ question, is it possible to discuss this without raising the issue of the apparent use of sexual assault as a form of semi-sanctioned social control in some parts of Pakistan?

If you could find a correlation between the villages or locations within pakistan that the families of these men originally came from and the villages or locations in pakistan where those sorts of practices occur, no. If not, yes.

This is true, but I would maintain that, within certain catholic communities there existed a culture that put protecting the criminal (usually a priest) above protecting the victim and which held that the reputation of the community was more important than the suffering of an abused child. To break ranks and accuse a priest was a serious offence, a betrayal of the religious community. This was made explicity clear by, among others, the current Pope.

It is reasonable to ask if an analogous situation exists here. Are these men finding it easier to operate because of a reluctance to ‘break ranks’? are the victims at all perceived as less worthy of protection because they are outside the community? Is there a sense that they have conrtibuted to their own abuse by a perceived ‘easiness’? On this last point, it is not unknown for senior judges to make exactly that despicable assumption.

I agree with Arif that ‘the pressure has to build until something is done. It is better for all of us if the pressure required is minimal. And better for Muslims if the pressure is greatest from Muslims themselves’ . It would be very counter-productive to criticise the investigation for asking the ‘wrong’ questions.

On the ‘cultural’ question, is it possible to discuss this without raising the issue of the apparent use of sexual assault as a form of semi-sanctioned social control in some parts of Pakistan?

Clearly Pakistani men are involved in this kind of thing but I am always worried when one particular group is singled out without any hard facts (particularly as a statistician!). I would like to know the total number of people committing these crimes, what proportion of these are Asian and then finally what proportion are Pakistani. If Pakistani men make up a significant proportion, only then is this kind of reporting justified.

Clearly this kind of crime is particularly nasty, regardless of the origins of the perpetrators, but singling out a particular group for attention is very dangerous. I suspect the key reasons is that Pakistani men are more visible the white criminals and that they have not traditionally been associated with this kind of crime (which may just be a perception rather than reality), hence the focus.

Unless neither of the two investigations add up and are fabricated. And that I don’t believe.

Yes. In cases of organised paedophelia backed by violence, let us not forget to ask what turned these children into sluts. In the more northernly parts of the country.

Jamal, you are a charmer.

Although child abuse within Catholicism particularly in the US was shown to exist in fairly substantial numbers it was never implied nor would i ever have supported anyone implying that Catholic men in general sought out young boys for undefined ‘cultural reasons’. The same could be said for predominantly white British sex tourism in SE Asia.

Those men are criminals and should be dealt with just as any other criminals would be. They should not be given special exemption because of their cultural background and those with their cultural background should not be slurred by their name.

An obvious step is to change the law so the police can bring action without the victim making an official complaint, although there are probably civil liberties issues with introducing such a law not to mention lack of evidence. I agree with Arif, communities have to be more willing to deal with the problems that emerge among their members.

The Pakistani community should be grateful for the chance to stop these crimes, without people turning it into an excuse for starting a race war. If it was the other way around, would Muslims be understanding if white communities targeting Muslim girls seemed to be so unconcerned?

I really hope the Mosques aren’t actually as complaisant as they are being presented, because the pressure has to build until something is done. It is better for all of us if the pressure required is minimal. And better for Muslims if the pressure is greatest from Muslims themselves.

I think everyone would agree that all child abuse is abhorrent and the perpetrators deserve nothing less than castration, but why has there been a focus on Asian men in this area? The only justification for singling out a particular group is if this group, as a proportion of the total number of people committing these crimes, is particularly large. If there is clear evidence of this then fine; but if this is not the case then this kind of reporting is troubling.

I also think the police position on this tells us a lot – in particular, the closure of the special unit to deal with these allegations. I do not buy the argument that this was done so as not to upset relations with the community. I seriously doubt that the police would not undertake a rigorous investigation into any allegations of child abuse (a crime that most people would agree is one of the worst possible) regardless of the colour of the possible abuser.

Then would it not be just as difficult for Mosque elders to do something on the basis of the same evidence and with the same fears? I guess so. But still they should be making it their main priority. Maybe they are – I just don’t know their perspective, as all I have is the BBC/C4 perspective. If they are too scared to open up a can of worms, then I am glad the media is forcing it open anyway.

Yes it comes along with lots of speculation from Ann Cryer about how our communities are mysogynistic and therefore prone to such things – but everyone has an axe to grind. At least she is supporting the victims in this case and if the “ethnic media” is not going to report these things at all, then they leave it open for the rest of the press to just make its own paranoid versions. The responsibility of the ethnic media is massive. If I was a mosque elder, I wouldn’t talk to the mass media, but I might be trusting enough to talk to community media. So they might be the only outlet for balanced information.