The case of Pakistani men grooming young white girls – part 2


by Sunny
20th September, 2005 at 5:37 pm    

Hundreds of white girls, many as young as 12, are being lured into a world of group sex and prostitution by gangs of British born Pakistani men from West and South Yorkshire. The girls are being introduced to their future ‘pimps’ by their classmates, often the brothers and cousins of these older men.

If that sounds familiar then you won’t be surprised to learn this was the subject of a Channel 4 documentary last year, titled Edge of the City, that sparked a big controversy when it was pulled from TV the first time around.

The second time, Blink and Eastern Eye launched a campaign to stop it, although I supported it being shown. C4 went ahead and showed it.

But the description above isn’t from last year – it is from a BBC Radio Five Live documentary broadcast this Sunday, 18th September.

The report looked at the way in which “these children are ‘groomed’ into believing that these ‘pimps’ are in fact their boyfriends”. It also asks why “so many of the men implicated in these crimes are British Pakistanis”.

Did Five Live simply regurgitated what was covered last year? In fact the truth is worse than that.

It covered the same area (and slightly more) as the C4 doc. According to my sources, after the C4 report, West Yorkshire police set up a special unit to deal with the problem. But that was recently shut down without explanation.

Many, including the local community leaders (useless themselves in this), say the police is too afraid to tackle the issue – too politically correct and unwilling to disturb racial and religious sensibilities. The police also did not take part in the documentary or give any statement to the makers of the Five Live documentary. No explanation given.

According to some sources I have, the problem is more widespread than the police itself is willing to admit. Yet they haven’t done anything about it.

This is political correctness gone mad, something the journalists involved indicated in a Five Live phone-in on Monday morning.

But there is another angle to all this. Sunday’s doc had no reference to C4′s investigation, so there was no context. The impression was given that this is a different case and quite possibly a different part of the country.

What it should have said was – “A year after C4 uncovered abuse by Pakistani men of young white girls, nothing seems to have changed. The abuse is carrying on, the police is powerless and has done little, and neither have the so-called community leaders.”

That would brought focus to why the police is failing the local community in tackling these youths.

While being interviewed on radio the morning after it was first shown on Channel 4, because of the controversy and my stance, I was frequently asked if this was a widespread problem, implying whether Muslim (or Asian) men picked on young white girls for cultural reasons.

That is of course rubbish, and these are simply criminals, but the implication is there. But we should not deny that there is an element of racism in all this – the Pakistani guys intentionally go for young white girls, according to some, because they see them as “easy”. Or maybe because they feel the community will look away because the girls are not Asian.

All this makes the BBC’s lack of context all the more dangerous.

Last time around the BNP and some of the right-wing press also used C4′s documentary to further their own agenda (immigration, Islamophobia – you name it). This time they could have done it again. Except no one, including the BNP, seems to have picked up on it.

Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, I’m not sure. Given there are innocent lives being destroyed here, I suspect it’s the latter. It would have been better if Five Live had given this proper context nevertheless.

  • Listen to the documentary from here.

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    1. Opinionated Voice

      [...] Apparently, the BNP and their advocates are currently crying because the Government banned their protest. Previously reported at Pickled Politics, the BNP were to march against men targeting young white girls in Yorkshire for group sex and prostitution, which many of the perpetrators were reported to be British born Pakistani men. I’m all for protesting against child molesters, but not when its instigated by the likes of the racist BNP that are evidently prepared to misuse the suffering of the victims to further their own agenda (How sad are they?). Tony Blair obviously agrees with me, not that we agree on much else! [...]


    2. Shino Abraham

      RT @sunny_hundal: The case of Pakistani men grooming young white girls – part 2 http://bit.ly/hHk8vL @ndtv


    3. Shino Abraham

      RT @sunny_hundal: The case of Pakistani men grooming young white girls – part 2 http://bit.ly/hHk8vL – Crime against Humanity Beware @bdutt




    1. Arif — on 21st September, 2005 at 12:24 pm  

      The programme doesn’t make clear why the police and social services aren’t getting more involved – I guess there is a lack of evidence or something. In which case, would it be too difficult to infiltrate the groups to get evidence? It sounds from the programme that the gangs are too violent for this to be safe.

      Then would it not be just as difficult for Mosque elders to do something on the basis of the same evidence and with the same fears? I guess so. But still they should be making it their main priority. Maybe they are – I just don’t know their perspective, as all I have is the BBC/C4 perspective. If they are too scared to open up a can of worms, then I am glad the media is forcing it open anyway.

      Yes it comes along with lots of speculation from Ann Cryer about how our communities are mysogynistic and therefore prone to such things – but everyone has an axe to grind. At least she is supporting the victims in this case and if the “ethnic media” is not going to report these things at all, then they leave it open for the rest of the press to just make its own paranoid versions. The responsibility of the ethnic media is massive. If I was a mosque elder, I wouldn’t talk to the mass media, but I might be trusting enough to talk to community media. So they might be the only outlet for balanced information.

    2. Keynes — on 21st September, 2005 at 12:48 pm  

      This is all very worrying. I admit that I do not know a great deal about this issue as yet but it seems to me that there are a few questions which need to be answered.

      I think everyone would agree that all child abuse is abhorrent and the perpetrators deserve nothing less than castration, but why has there been a focus on Asian men in this area? The only justification for singling out a particular group is if this group, as a proportion of the total number of people committing these crimes, is particularly large. If there is clear evidence of this then fine; but if this is not the case then this kind of reporting is troubling.

      I also think the police position on this tells us a lot – in particular, the closure of the special unit to deal with these allegations. I do not buy the argument that this was done so as not to upset relations with the community. I seriously doubt that the police would not undertake a rigorous investigation into any allegations of child abuse (a crime that most people would agree is one of the worst possible) regardless of the colour of the possible abuser.

    3. Arif — on 21st September, 2005 at 1:00 pm  

      Keynes, if you listen to the programme, the focus on Asians (in fact Pakistanis) is understandable, and it is put into context that this is just what is happening in one area and that in other areas other ethnic groups do similar things.

      The Pakistani community should be grateful for the chance to stop these crimes, without people turning it into an excuse for starting a race war. If it was the other way around, would Muslims be understanding if white communities targeting Muslim girls seemed to be so unconcerned?

      I really hope the Mosques aren’t actually as complaisant as they are being presented, because the pressure has to build until something is done. It is better for all of us if the pressure required is minimal. And better for Muslims if the pressure is greatest from Muslims themselves.

    4. Yeats — on 21st September, 2005 at 2:15 pm  

      I remember the C4 program last year, the police couldn’t do anything unless the girls themselves made a complaint. The girls of course were to afraid too. The program gave the impression that it was one gang of 30-40 people were responsible rather than Pakistanis in general.

      An obvious step is to change the law so the police can bring action without the victim making an official complaint, although there are probably civil liberties issues with introducing such a law not to mention lack of evidence. I agree with Arif, communities have to be more willing to deal with the problems that emerge among their members.

    5. Kulvinder — on 21st September, 2005 at 4:43 pm  

      Id pretty much agree with sunny, this is reprehensible and should be dealt with regardless of the community involved but alluding or trying to allude this is a problem with ‘asian or pakistani men’ in general does absolutely nothing to help the victims.

      Although child abuse within Catholicism particularly in the US was shown to exist in fairly substantial numbers it was never implied nor would i ever have supported anyone implying that Catholic men in general sought out young boys for undefined ‘cultural reasons’. The same could be said for predominantly white British sex tourism in SE Asia.

      Those men are criminals and should be dealt with just as any other criminals would be. They should not be given special exemption because of their cultural background and those with their cultural background should not be slurred by their name.

    6. jamal — on 21st September, 2005 at 8:27 pm  

      I remember watching the programme on this. the reality is that it does happen. Though it should be noted that there are perpertrators of many races comiting such offences and participating in this behaviour, as there are girls from many races too. But yes, they should be dealt with accordingly. Rhough we should also be asking why these girls are so easily influenced. maybe it is the case that parenting in the more northernly parts of the country is not so good!

    7. Don — on 22nd September, 2005 at 11:15 pm  

      ‘Though we should also be asking why these girls are so easily influenced. maybe it is the case that parenting in the more northernly parts of the country is not so good! ‘

      Yes. In cases of organised paedophelia backed by violence, let us not forget to ask what turned these children into sluts. In the more northernly parts of the country.

      Jamal, you are a charmer.

    8. Sunny — on 23rd September, 2005 at 12:41 am  

      Keynes – There is clear evidence to show that it is primarily Pakistani men who are targetting young white girls in this area.
      There is a whole support organisation set up just to deal with this. The only problem is – they can’t collect the evidence to build a case.
      Well that is what the police say anyway. Channel 4 even filmed these guys trying to pick up the girls so I don’t think thats in question. Its just why the hell the police hasn’t done anything substantial.

      Unless neither of the two investigations add up and are fabricated. And that I don’t believe.

    9. Keynes — on 23rd September, 2005 at 10:10 am  

      Sunny clearly this is an issue that needs to be addressed. However, I just do not buy the view that if this was a widespread as claimed the police would are not actively pursuing these people.

      Clearly Pakistani men are involved in this kind of thing but I am always worried when one particular group is singled out without any hard facts (particularly as a statistician!). I would like to know the total number of people committing these crimes, what proportion of these are Asian and then finally what proportion are Pakistani. If Pakistani men make up a significant proportion, only then is this kind of reporting justified.

      Clearly this kind of crime is particularly nasty, regardless of the origins of the perpetrators, but singling out a particular group for attention is very dangerous. I suspect the key reasons is that Pakistani men are more visible the white criminals and that they have not traditionally been associated with this kind of crime (which may just be a perception rather than reality), hence the focus.

    10. Don — on 23rd September, 2005 at 11:29 am  

      Kulvinder makes the point that during the recent (and current) scandals involving paedophilia within the Catholic church, it was not suggested that ‘atholic men in general sought out young boys for undefined ‘cultural reasons’.

      This is true, but I would maintain that, within certain catholic communities there existed a culture that put protecting the criminal (usually a priest) above protecting the victim and which held that the reputation of the community was more important than the suffering of an abused child. To break ranks and accuse a priest was a serious offence, a betrayal of the religious community. This was made explicity clear by, among others, the current Pope.

      It is reasonable to ask if an analogous situation exists here. Are these men finding it easier to operate because of a reluctance to ‘break ranks’? are the victims at all perceived as less worthy of protection because they are outside the community? Is there a sense that they have conrtibuted to their own abuse by a perceived ‘easiness’? On this last point, it is not unknown for senior judges to make exactly that despicable assumption.

      I agree with Arif that ‘the pressure has to build until something is done. It is better for all of us if the pressure required is minimal. And better for Muslims if the pressure is greatest from Muslims themselves’ . It would be very counter-productive to criticise the investigation for asking the ‘wrong’ questions.

      On the ‘cultural’ question, is it possible to discuss this without raising the issue of the apparent use of sexual assault as a form of semi-sanctioned social control in some parts of Pakistan?

    11. Kulvinder — on 24th September, 2005 at 5:07 am  

      This is true, but I would maintain that, within certain catholic communities there existed a culture that put protecting the criminal (usually a priest) above protecting the victim and which held that the reputation of the community was more important than the suffering of an abused child. To break ranks and accuse a priest was a serious offence, a betrayal of the religious community. This was made explicity clear by, among others, the current Pope.

      Thats a seperate issue to implying catholic men are paedophiles.

      Are these men finding it easier to operate because of a reluctance to ‘break ranks’? are the victims at all perceived as less worthy of protection because they are outside the community?

      There have been posts on BC about people being abused within their own familys. I don’t think its complete speculation to suggest that its easier for someone to overlook suffering when its not part of their ‘own community’ (as abhorent as that is) but id hazzard a guess that a reluctance to break ranks is as much if not more a result of a strictly patriarchal social setup probably combined with misogyny.

      Is there a sense that they have conrtibuted to their own abuse by a perceived ‘easiness’? On this last point, it is not unknown for senior judges to make exactly that despicable assumption.

      From the POV of the abuser, quite obviously yes. That doesn’t make it ‘true’ to any rational individual however. Id be interested to know which senior judges in which cases made that assumption.

      On the ‘cultural’ question, is it possible to discuss this without raising the issue of the apparent use of sexual assault as a form of semi-sanctioned social control in some parts of Pakistan?

      If you could find a correlation between the villages or locations within pakistan that the families of these men originally came from and the villages or locations in pakistan where those sorts of practices occur, no. If not, yes.

    12. Sunny — on 25th September, 2005 at 3:25 pm  

      Lol, it looks the BNP have picked up my story and organised a march in response.

      The new twist to the Muslim paedophile gang scandals emerged when Radio 5 Live broadcast a documentary on Sunday 18th September. This revealed that: “Hundreds of white girls, many as young as 12, are being lured into a world of group sex and prostitution by gangs of British born Pakistani men from West and South Yorkshire. The girls are being introduced to their future pimps by their classmates, often the brothers and cousins of these older men.”

      Writing about the programme on the website Asians in Media, Sunny Hundal revealed that the police unit to investigate these disgusting racist crimes was closed down as soon as the media spotlight cast on the issue by last year’s Channel 4 ‘Edge of the City’ programme (that Chief Constable Cramphorn had postponed until after the European Elections, lest it benefit the BNP) had shifted away. He went on to describe the way in which “many, including the local community leaders (useless themselves in this), say the police are too afraid to tackle the issue – too politically correct and unwilling to disturb racial and religious sensibilities…. This is political correctness gone mad.”

      I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    13. Monty — on 26th September, 2005 at 10:13 am  

      May I please interject at this point, to add a note concerning the Catholic paedophilia scandal? I think two aspects are noteworthy:
      1. The paedophile priests victimised their own flock. In this case both abuser and victim were quite heavily invested in protecting the reputation of the community.
      2. The Dioscesan Bishops compounded the problem by re-assigning the offenders to new unsuspecting parishes, instead of sending the offenders back to the monastery where they belonged.
      Finally may I remind all concerned at this problem, that it was the concerted action of ordinary Catholic congregations that started the firestorm of anger that engulfed Bernard Law, and dragged the issue into the public sphere. Ordinary decent folk have much more power and influence than they know.

    14. Kulvinder — on 26th September, 2005 at 6:51 pm  

      …noone else take my catholic analogy out of context.

    15. Raquib — on 4th October, 2005 at 5:33 pm  

      This is clearly a criminal offence.
      It is an offence of the worst kind that deserves condemnation by all decent people.

      It is NOT an issue of race or religion.

      In the current of fear and hostility towards Muslims in particular and “foreigners” in general, the press emphasises race and religion as it attracts prurient interest.

      We should not be fooled. This case does not reflect cultural, religious or racial values, but is simply a case of a group of predatory men that have found a vulnerable group to exploit.

    16. shoaib — on 17th December, 2005 at 6:24 pm  

      sex

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