The world has gone crazy. 5000 businessmen and military personnel die and suddenly we are at war. With, whom? In what way? With a prime suspect who no one has any proof of guilt and who himself denies responsibility. More people die each day from starvation or bad water as a result of IMF loans yet were are all the three minute silences for them. Over 1.5 million children have died in Iraq as a direct result of the American imposed embargo. Which CNN viewer knows their suffering, much longer and much more painful?

It is sickening watching countries who poured vitriol on the U.S. in their daily papers for years, suddenly Kowtowing to it’s demands and sending in messages of condolences. It is disgusting watching the press of the supposedly “free and civilised” world printing such obvious propaganda and attempting to rile masses to whatever cause the Whitehouse may choose. Where are those questions like “why did this happen”? Why is the press simply Muslim bashing? Where’s all the reflection that’s supposed to happen at a time like this? Why is no one noticing what’s happening in Palestine?
Someone needs some sense right now.

Shiv Malik
ShivMalik@hotmail.com

there are some seriously stereotypes floating around this blog continuously.

‘belligerent groups’ – ?

Perhaps the world needs a crash course in social psychology – homo sapiens, individuals, peer pressure, the ‘dynamics’ of groups vs. understanding them as some fixed container with a label on the side.

we keep coming back to this static labelling of ‘race’ and ‘groups’.

I think that puts your empathy nonsense into perspective. You did attack the Qur’aan and the veracity of Islam long before i said anything about your Gurus, none of whom i insulted personally, but rather asked questions about. Questions you were unable to answer and decided instead to take this so called emphathy route.
Take a long look in the mirror before you start accusing other people of things and attacking them personally.
To be honest i couldn’t care less for your opinion of me, but i think it is important to highlight your intellectual dishonesty.

I think Ismaeel seriously needs a ‘reality check’, but I have no wish to hijack any threads or indeed converse any further with him. The cards are already on the table for all to see.

I will therefore say nothing further on the matter, as requested.

Waheguruji Ka Khalsa, Waheguruji Ki Fateh.

You’re continuing to prove my point with every single word you say – especially as you have been repeatedly guilty of everything you are accusing me of (it was as predictable as clockwork that you would attempt to use your usual technique of turning things around at me and merely paraphrasing my own statements – I’m already 10 steps ahead of you), and indeed “character assassination” is the tactic you used to deflect any questioning on the origins and veracity of Islam, instead of merely stating the evidence and then politely agreeing to disagree. A particularly nefarious move on your part, considering that nobody here said anything negative whatsoever about Mohammad, and indeed continued to refrain from utilising such gutter tactics despite your continuous ranting about the Sikh Gurus. Of course, inside your own head you are unable to comprehend this (along with the actual reasons why people such as myself are not interested in engaging in any further theological “debate” with you), but I think we’ve all established that already. However, I’m sure it all makes perfect sense to you within the confines of whatever is actually going on inside your mind.

It’s a classic Asian trait, and one which some (by no means all, or even most) members of certain other belligerent groups around the world are also prone to; their behaviour is perfectly fine until someone else actually questions the grandiose rhetoric and exaggerated claims, at which point all the ‘bukwaas’ begins.

I am fortunate enough to have known extremely devout, committed Muslims who are among the most decent, humble, honest, warm-hearted and utterly trustworthy people one could ever hope to meet. I count myself truly lucky to have encountered such individuals in my life, and for their part they embraced me as a brother. You, sir, are not even remotely in the same league as them.

I don’t know if you’re genuinely detached from reality to the point of being delusional, or if you are indeed deliberately lying to pathological levels. In any case, considering how much hypocrisy, distortion, and misinformation you have been propagating both here on PP and throughout your own blog, I can now honestly say that I would have difficulty believing anything you say at all, even if you were to take on oath on the Quran.

Carry on, Ismaeel sahib; I’m sure there’s an audience for you somewhere.

Don, there was a very strong conspiracy between the Jordanians and the Zionists to create Israel, many books have been documented about it, which we were referred to in university. This meant that in the 1948 war Jordanian troops never advanced beyond the pre-agreed border the King had made with the Zionist authority, being the best equipped and trained of the arab armies, it helped turn the war in favour of the Zionist militias.
The fact that the US helped the Shah of Iran came to power is also well documented. The fact that western governments were complicit in allowing the armed forces to overthrow democratically elected governments in Turkey and Algeria because they were Islamic based parties. The fact that have been complicit in preventing any real democracy coming to Egypt, Jordan, KSA etc whilst banging on about the lack of it in Iraq.
I don’t want to get into the rights and wrongs of it all here, my point was these were conspiracies according to anyone’s definition and because the Muslim world has been so subjected to them in the last hundred years, then it is natural that people in those countries are going to be more likely to believe conspiracy theories. If it had been the other way around, it would be a european problem.
i don’t have a problem with the english language, i gave you a dictionary definition, you were the one who refused it because there is a book called Open Conspiracy: which actually proves by it’s title that an open conspiracy is an exception, otherwise it would need the prefix: open.

Jai, the fact that you keep on feeling the need to continue to patronise me with your psycho-babble and refuse to admit any wrongs of your own in provoking the argument on the other thread, speaks volumes about you. I don’t want to get into a personal argument with you about your personality. It is telling though that when people can’t win a debate that they have to resort to character assasination.

“But a few hundred years of developing towards democracy reduced their scope and importance in many European countries where conspiracy theories mainly survive on the fringes”

well that might depend on how one defines ‘fringe’
( as with all these things!!) perhaps all the Knights Templar enthusiasts would disagree? then again, isn’t everyone a Grail theorist nowadays?

I’m sure he’s thinking of a suitably devastating riposte

=>”I think he genuinely doesn’t realise how offensive he’s being.”

It’s not just about being “offensive”, it’s the hypocrisy and the fact that he’s doing a huge amount of what psychiatrists term “projection”, ie. Perceiving his own negative behaviour and motivations in the very people he’s erroneously accusing.

I don’t think he’s being deliberately malicious either, but he genuinely does not seem to realise how other people perceive his actions (objectively-speaking) and exactly why they object to his behaviour and ideas. It’s a lack of interpersonal skills and a disjoint between the reality of the other party’s actions & motivations and how he perceives all this. I suspect Asperger’s Syndrome but the sufferers of this disorder have an unusually high IQ, and I don’t know if that’s applicable here.

=>”I doubt he can.”

…..Which is a particular cause for concern. It’s almost like a form of emotional autism.

For example:

“i have not spoken to anyone on this blog yet who when actually confronted with some points against their position which they are unable to answer do anything but resort to some sort of diversionary tactic.”

An analogy I could make is a thirsty person requesting another party for some water, then complaining about the taste and hurling abuse at them for offering the water in the first place, and subsequently being confused about why the other party refuses to give them any more water. He doesn’t realise that to a great extent he’s the root cause of the problem, and indeed that it’s his own behaviour which puts people off from wishing to discuss anything further with him. Transferring the blame for the subsequent fall-out onto the other individual or group is a convenient way to rationalise this and absolve himself of any wrong-doing (either logical or moral).

But again, like you I don’t think he’s consciously aware of doing all this, assuming that he’s telling the truth. It’s a lack of self-awareness, empathy, and emotional sensitivity (towards other people), not necessarily deliberate maliciousness. However, it is worrying that he perceives any act of compassion towards him as being “patronising” or driven by some other sinister motive.

Don’t sell yourself short now, Ishmael. Life’s no fun without the crazies. Fewer newspapers would get sold and Sunny’s threads would be helluva lot shorter.

You mean as opposed to your policy of calling other Islamophobes and crying about how “rude” people are at you on other blogs? If you can’t handle the head Ismaeel, get out of the kitchen as they say….

“True tolerance and pluralism (Where different cultures and reigions live together) was embodied by the Shariah and the system of dhimmi communities, where non-Muslim communities lived ruling themselves by their own laws within Muslim lands. ”

ahahaha…..right.

Be fair, he seems to average one a month, the trenchant
‘ Mashallah, very good review. ‘

I’m willing to give him credit; I think he genuinely doesn’t realise how offensive he’s being. I doubt he can.