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  • Technorati: graph / links

    List of newspapers taking BNP money


    by Sunny on 18th May, 2009 at 11:42 pm    

    Various people on Twitter and blogs are calling for a boycott of local newspapers taking BNP money for advertising. So I thought it would be a good idea to at least collate a list of all local newspapers supporting / taking money from the BNP

    I’m told so far the Newsquest titles are:
    The Herald (where?)
    Bromsgrove Advertiser
    Yorkshire Post
    Evening Times
    Northern Echo
    Dudley News
    The Echo (Basildon and Southend in Essex)
    Stourbridge News
    Colchester Gazette
    Kidderminster Shuttle (via Tim Phillips-White)
    Thurrock Gazette (via joe laking)

    According to Jon Slattery, Newsquest,

    took a moral stand last July by banning all adult sex advertisements, having been persuaded of the link between the ads and women being trafficked for sex

    And yet when asked about the BNP advertising with them, they said:

    I appreciate how strongly many people feel about the BNP, but it would be undemocratic and against the principle of free speech to refuse to accept any party’s advertising provided it falls within our guidelines.

    Not really - a newspaper is welcome to write about whoever they want to, but it doesn’t have to take money from any organisation. Would their guidelines allow them to take money from the KKK? From the Aryan Brotherhood? Because those are Nick Griffin’s friends.

    If you know of any other newspaper taking BNP ads - please let us know below. Also, anyone who are Newsquest’s biggest advertisers?



      |   Trackback link   |   Add to del.icio.us   |   Share on Facebook   |   Filed in: Media, Race politics




    54 Comments below   |   Add your own

    1. Isaac Brown — on 19th May, 2009 at 5:55 am  

      Many of these papers are losing money, advertising revenue and circulation. Virtually all of them hate the BNP and regularly write anti BNP articles and are pro Labour, UAF etc. I hope they all go bust and sack the hacks (support my “Hack Sack” campaign). btw, Sunny, you are a pathetic worm.

    2. steve — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:20 am  

      Bit pathetic Sunny.

      Would you cause a fuss if these papers accepted SWP or Communist party money? How about Class war?

      I detest the BNP and all they stand for, but denying publicity is part of the bigger problem. Let them advertise, get people talking about it and see what happens.

      It is by having open discussion where you can tell people about the hidden agenda of the BNP that we will defeat them.

    3. Vikrant — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:31 am  

      What’s the purpose of the boycott? By the logical continuum of your argument shouldn’t we boycott individuals and business providing services to BNP and its members as well? This mentality of knee jerk repression of BNP basically plays into their hands feeding their victim complex and helping position them as anti-establismentarians!

    4. Tim Phillips-White — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:52 am  

      The problem, as far as my local paper, the Kidderminster Shuttle is concerned, is when they they allow people such as Simon Darby to make outrageous comments, which are then published as printed quotations.

      However, I have spoken to the editor of the Shuttle about this, and the advert, (video by Griffin), and hope to have a reply this week.

    5. platinum786 — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:55 am  

      I think we should boycott all things BNP. If the news papers were supporting the Nazi’s would you support them? Don’t allow racism to flourish in Britain behind the curtain of “freedom of speech” as we all know that is BS. Freedom of speech only exists as long as the establishment is willing to tolerate what you want to say.

      A boycott of these papers would soon have them seeing straight again. The simple fact of the matter is racist organisations like the BNP cannot be tolerated.

    6. Shamit — on 19th May, 2009 at 8:14 am  

      Isaac

      “Virtually all of them hate the BNP and regularly write anti BNP articles”

      That we must celebrate as BNP represents the worst demons of the British culture. And hating what BNP stands for is loving the greater humanity we all share, which Isaac, you fail to grasp.

      “btw, Sunny, you are a pathetic worm.”

      Look who’s talking — I don’t know to laugh or cry. Once again you have overstayed your welcome — and before I say something really unkind I would advice you to depart very soon —

      A BNP member calling anyone a worm is a bit rich — now run along you stupid moron.

      **************************************

      Steve -

      Free speech works both ways. And I am sure you would agree it is well within our rights not to spend any money on those newspapers that chose to promote BNP hatred.

      I believe most of us in this country are not racists and it is the right of that majority not to do business with these newspapers or read them. Its called freedom of choice too.

      As for taking money from BNP — I personally would not and not promote BNP in any shape way or form.

      I don’t think anyone here is against a debate but BNP does not do debate.

      *****************************************
      Vikrant:

      In your campus or in the town, if a local business openly promotes KKK — what do you think the reaction from the “Greeks” would be? Would you and your fraters/brothers support those assholes? I very much doubt it and I think that goes across the fraternity and also ROTC. I know what the reaction would have been when I was running a chapter and I hope Greeks haven’t changed that much.

      And, student activists and others would openly boycott them. Why is this so different?

      ******************************

    7. Ravi Naik — on 19th May, 2009 at 8:29 am  

      Let the BNP advertise where it wants.

      However, I want to know which newspapers are getting money from the BNP, and then I exercise my right NOT to do business with them.

      Freedom of speech works both ways.

    8. Mr Eugenides — on 19th May, 2009 at 8:41 am  

      The “Herald” is the Glasgow Herald - something of a misnomer as it is essentially one of the two Scottish national broadsheets. They also publish the Glasgow Evening Times.

      http://www.newsquest.co.uk/portfolio2/newspapers/

      However, I’m not quite clear on one thing; are you suggesting that all of the above titles are taking BNP ads? Surely not. For example, I would be astounded if the Glasgow Herald were.

      I would argue that a blanket boycott of all Newsquest titles would be counterproductive. That’s just my opinion, though. Either way, I would suggest that you should be clear on exactly who is being “targeted” here.

    9. douglas clark — on 19th May, 2009 at 9:13 am  

      Mr Eugenides,

      The ‘Glasgow Herald’ (as was) renamed itself ‘The Herald’ quite some time ago - February 1992, according to Wikipedia - to reflect its’ national status. The fact that you and I still call it that reflects our innate conservatism!

      I, for instance, still call Glasgow City Council, ‘The Corpy’.

    10. Carl — on 19th May, 2009 at 9:49 am  

      Ravi Naik, call me old fashioned, but the local press should not be rewarding the highest bidder with free space. They are community organs of the press, and as such they should be less willing to accept money for political favour, and very cautious not to give a party hell bent on local tension a breeding ground. Its not an issue of free speech, its logistical non-partisanship and tactical ignoring.

    11. Mr Eugenides — on 19th May, 2009 at 3:28 pm  

      Douglas,

      Indeed. I think quite a few people in Scotland call it that, particularly those unfortunate enough to live outside the Dear Green Place.

      Anyway, the point stands. For what it’s worth, I agree that it’s a matter of public concern that newspapers appear to think that BNP money is good enough to plaster ads all over their publications, but since they are a legal party those papers are well within their rights to do so.

      In answer to Carl, I agree with Ravi: I think a newspaper can take money from whoever it likes, within the law, but I would not wish to be a subscriber, say, to a paper that took money from the BNP. Freedom of speech does work two ways. Name and shame those papers for taking BNP money and let the readers (and advertisers) decide.

    12. Isaac Brown — on 19th May, 2009 at 3:49 pm  

      shamit - I gather from your name you are not British. Telling me to go away shows your intolerance and fascist tendencies. Go back to where YOU come from - I belong here.

    13. munir — on 19th May, 2009 at 3:56 pm  

      Isaac Brown

      “shamit - I gather from your name you are not British. Telling me to go away shows your intolerance and fascist tendencies. Go back to where YOU come from - I belong here.”

      Not very nice is it Isaac ? - to be told to go back where you come from in your own country

    14. Shamit — on 19th May, 2009 at 4:08 pm  

      Isaac -

      Is that the instructions they sent you with from the thug headquarters- and that`s the best they could do!

      You need manners and you need to read a bit more about our country before you shoot your mouth.

      This is as much my country as it is of yours. I am a far better representative of the country as has been demonstrated time and time again on this blog. By the way this platform is a respected while yours is held with contempt.

      I am not going to let you indulge in your twisted fantasy that the country belongs exclusively to you or any particular race or creed.

      Last time you ran away from the debate on the impact of your racist bigoted policies on my country - ie Brtain.

      Many commentators of different race, creed and religion ripped your policies apart without much effort and demonstrated that your policies would ensure an economically wrecked Britain with no friends.

      No sensible Briton would let that happen — not only because you are racist but also because you are stupid racists without a clue on how to even run a corner shop profitably.

      Now, go back and tell your bosses they need to do far far better to win an argument with me. They might need some grey matter and American family photographs won`t do much good here. Go on run along to your masters — quick quick.

      Finally also tell them, I hold my political convictions with pride and do not feel the necessity to hide it. While you are a social pariah. Now go and ask them to explain that to you. Run along now.

    15. Shamit — on 19th May, 2009 at 4:26 pm  

      All those who are reading the comment above:

      It was written in about a minute and a half while I was very annoyed. So please forgive the typos.

    16. links for 2009-05-19 « Embololalia — on 19th May, 2009 at 6:09 pm  

      [...] Pickled Politics » List of newspapers taking BNP money Not really - a newspaper is welcome to write about whoever they want to, but it doesn’t have to take money from any organisation. Would their guidelines allow them to take money from the KKK? From the Aryan Brotherhood? Because those are Nick Griffin’s friends. (tags: bnp media uk) [...]

    17. Ravi Naik — on 19th May, 2009 at 6:10 pm  

      shamit - I gather from your name you are not British.

      In a few generations Shamit may become a common English name. You know, like the foreign Middle Eastern name Yitzchak, which became Isaac.

      Telling me to go away shows your intolerance and fascist tendencies. Go back to where YOU come from - I belong here.

      Oh Isaac, didn’t your masters provide you with the “BNP Language & Concepts Discipline” manual? You are not supposed to display hostility towards us ethnics, it doesn’t reflect well towards the BNP, which doesn’t want to appear racist, racialist, intolerant and fascist. In particular, I found this little gem in the manual which was revised recently:

      Rule #13: The BNP defines British people in both civic and ethnic terms.
      Immigrants, and descendants of immigrants who have settled here from non-
      European countries, are British in the fullest civic sense of the word
      , and entitled
      to the rights of all British subjects. This includes all rights and duties (such as
      full protection under the law) and all other aspects of participatory society, such
      as national sports teams, military service, civic associations and the like.

      It seems like the BNP is slowly betraying its ideals for the sake of power. And this never ends well.

    18. Carl — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:03 pm  

      Mr Eugenides; I only wish I could share your commitment to giving everyone a platform, and that the thing that stops me from calling for a total ban on the BNP is an unalterable appeal to freedom of speech, but it is not.

      The thing that stops me from calling that ban is the notoriety it will give them, and like with all humans we want to see and flirt with the naughty thing.

      If a political group is banned, at best you will want to know why its banned for yourself, at worst you aim to existentially achieve its victim status as permitted by some masochistic element of the human condition (look at Magritte’s Son of Man - which I only mention because I know I’m in pleasant company - wouldn’t you just love to know whats behind that apple??)

      Freedom of Speech is a vastly difficult question. For some it includes the right to be offended, for some it includes the rights of extremist views, and for some it means at times curbing those extremist views in order to allow freedom of speech to continue (and this is the most prevalent one practised in western democracies). My view, as controversial as it may perhaps seem, is the latter one. For if we shun the rights to free speech for Islamic extremists on the basis of their overt danger and symbolic violence, we should be able to shun the rights to free media space to those who aim to use systematic and parliamentary means of curbing our freedom of speech.

      Only my logistical understanding of the nature of censoring political groups denies me the grounds with which to pursue my views.

    19. Newsquest and the BNP adverts « Raincoat Optimism — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:41 pm  

      [...] on the Basildon Echo website it has been documented about by blogging superhero Sunny Hundal here. It seems that quite a number of newspapers owned by Newsquest (the company that owns the Echo) [...]

    20. Jai — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:46 pm  

      shamit - I gather from your name you are not British. Telling me to go away shows your intolerance and fascist tendencies.

      Oh dear, “Isaac”. Couldn’t the BNP send any better examples than you, or is this really the apex of the Master Race’s intellectual firepower as far as they’re concerned ?

      Pitiful.

      Go back to where YOU come from

      I take it you’re not an avid viewer of “The Incredible Human Journey” on BBC2 every Sunday night. Too many long words for the BNP, or is the underlying message just going completely over your buddies’ heads ?

      I belong here.

      No “Isaac”, you belong in hell, a KKK cross-burning party, a Nazi rally, or on a psychiatrist’s couch. Take your pick.

      And tell your masters at the BNP that they’re way out of their league and shouldn’t pick fights with people who are much smarter and tougher than they are. Off you go.

    21. Jai — on 19th May, 2009 at 7:48 pm  

      Shamit & Ravi,

      Great responses in #14 & #17, guys.

    22. Isaac Brown — on 20th May, 2009 at 6:23 am  

      Shamit, Ravi and the other assorted non British aliens posting on this site - let’s get a few FACTS straight: most indigenous people of the UK have ancestries going back hundreds of generations within these islands (or in continental Europe where we all share the same genes with our continental cousins). Our ancestors created the UK infrastructure, villages, towns etc, many fought and died to protect our homeland. Perhaps you clowns may find this difficult to understand - being immigrants and rejects from your own lands - but this history makes us the only proprietors of the UK. We are the boss. When aliens start dictating to white Brits, then it proves the BNP are correct in their policies. Western music - unlike the jungle music you lot in invented in Africa - is OURS, as is our science, literature etc. We don’t want your degenerate culture - go away.

    23. Vikrant — on 20th May, 2009 at 7:34 am  

      most indigenous people of the UK have ancestries going back hundreds of generations within these islands (or in continental Europe where we all share the same genes with our continental cousins).

      Hello! All humans share the genes. Genetically speaking there is just one race, the human one.

      Our ancestors created the UK infrastructure, villages, towns etc, many fought and died to protect our homeland.

      So did a lot of wogs died in esuring that the sun did’nt set on Britannia for 2 centuries. Also may i mention, UK was built on the blood suckered from the colonies!

      We are the boss. When aliens start dictating to white Brits, then it proves the BNP are correct in their policies.

      Get off acid you wanker, no one is imposing anything on you. There now Isaac boy, does it rile you up, when you see them darn darkies doing much better around you? Perhaps you should have paid attention to such things like education! Now then a lot of those bleeding Pakis pay those taxes which pay for your council handouts!

      When aliens start dictating to white Brits, then it proves the BNP are correct in their policies. Western music - unlike the jungle music you lot in invented in Africa - is OURS, as is our science, literature etc.

      This is precisely what dumbfucks like you do, since you obviously have nothing to show for your sorry lives (and all those council handouts), you go on to claim and co-opt ownership of the entire western culture, even if your contribution to it, or even understanding of it is nada, zilch… zero.

      Btw your comments about African music non-withstanding, in case you haven’t noticed, a vast majority of contributors to this website are ASIAN!

      P.S As an ex-pat “non-British citizen alien”, am I not the model ethnic for you BNP fellas? Where do i apply for my “generous repatriation” cheques?

    24. Jai — on 20th May, 2009 at 10:33 am  

      “Isaac”, your level of historical ignorance is absolutely staggering. So let’s get a few FACTS straight, since you’re placing such great emphasis on the concept.

      (or in continental Europe where we all share the same genes with our continental cousins).

      Not quite.

      Let me introduce you to a historical group called Indo-Europeans.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_people

      You will note that a huge number of people from the Mediterranean countries in particular share a common ancestry with Iranians, large numbers from the Indian subcontinent (especially those from the north/northwest), etc etc.

      Furthermore, the level of genetic difference between, for example, a Scandinavian person and someone from sub-saharan Africa is actually minimal; there is literally greater variation between chimpanzees.

      Here are further thoughts on the above from a qualified medical professional who, unlike you and your friends in the BNP, actually has the scientific and historical understanding to know what she’s talking about:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/5279787/Interview-Alice-Roberts-on-The-Incredible-Human-Journey.html

      Our ancestors created the UK infrastructure, villages, towns etc,

      Not so well-versed in ancient British history either, I see. A huge number of villages, towns, cities on this island were originally established by the Romans, even though they may later have been expanded/occupied by “your” ancestors.

      many fought and died to protect our homeland.

      2.5 million soldiers from the Indian subcontinent fought on the side of the Allies during WW2 — it comprised the largest volunteer army in recorded human history. And for a specific example, 80,000 Sikhs died fighting in both world wars.

      Perhaps you clowns may find this difficult to understand - being immigrants and rejects from your own lands

      Unlike the large numbers of white British “rejects” who have immigrated to Spain, Australia, the United States etc during the last few decades ?

      Western music - unlike the jungle music you lot in invented in Africa - is OURS

      Unless you’re referring to classical music or Morris dancing, Western music in its current popular form is heavily influenced by musical genres created by black people, especially African-Americans, going back at least 50 years.

      as is our science, literature etc.

      Firstly, the resources and knowledge enabling scientific progress during the past few centuries were heavily facilitated by the impact of colonial expansion — ie. invading other people’s territory and ‘dictating’ to them how they should live their lives.

      Secondly, a considerable amount of older scientific knowledge was derived from ancient Greek and Roman sources which had actually been forgotten in most of northern & western Europe (including Britain) but had been preserved in the Arab world and in Muslim kingdoms such as Al-Andalus in Spain. To be blunt, after the Roman Empire collapsed, “Western”/European civilisation did not recover for about a thousand years — culturally, scientifically or technologically. And the very concept of the number “zero” – fundamental to advanced mathematics – originates in ancient India, not Britain and not even Europe; hell, even those numbers on the keyboard you’re using to sneeringly type on are modified Arabic versions of numerals originating in India.

      And that’s before we even begin to discuss the benefits of scientific progress which the British inherited from the inhabitants of regions occupied during their various colonial ventures. Here’s a hint, out of numerous other potential examples: The shampoo you presumably use to wash your hair originated in India. Unlike the subcontinent, British personal hygiene and washing habits were not particularly impressive at the time, or indeed until much later in this history of this country.

      And since “science” is apparently so important to you, perhaps you should bear in mind that Charles Darwin, the founder of modern genetic understanding, was extremely hostile to the notion of “racial superiority” or even dividing humanity up into “races”, especially as his understanding of evolution and genetics increased. There were even instances where he angrily argued with people when, during his various international travels, he saw how badly Africans were treated and regarded due to the slave trade (a colonial practice which was so prevalent during his time), and these are the same Africans you’ve referred to with such contempt in your own post.

      I mentioned the following a few weeks ago on this website, but since you seem to have missed it and your somewhat parochial understanding of your place in world history clearly needs correcting, here are some further facts for you:

      - Until the colonial era and certainly until the Industrial Revolution, Britain was a “Third World” country in comparison with much of the East. During the Mughal era, India and China were jointly responsible for about 50% of the entire global GDP – India’s own GDP was the same as that of the whole of Europe combined. And 350 years ago, the richest man in the world was the ruler of Mughal India, not Britain and certainly not even remotely any other country in Europe.

      - The ancient Greeks and Romans which modern Western civilisation has benefited so greatly from after the Renaissance had extensive diplomatic and business relations with the Indian subcontinent. There was a huge amount of bilateral philosophical exchange between the Greeks and the Indians; and the level of international trade between India and the Roman Empire was absolutely massive – there were even communities of Roman traders acting as representatives of their empire who were based in numerous Indian coastal areas due to excellent relations between the two superpowers. And neither the Romans nor the Greeks believed themselves to be “racially superior” to South Asians (far from it — and in fact, the Romans didn’t believe in the notion of “indigenous racial purity” to define what constitutes a “real Roman” either) – so in that sense too, you and your BNP allies are more ignorant, uneducated and uncivilised than the West’s most respected, most powerful and most advanced civilisations more than 2000 years ago.

      I could go on, but you get the point. What’s really pathetic is the fact that you and your fellow racists are so fundamentally lacking in self-esteem as individuals that you have to latch onto this ridiculous idea of “racial superiority” and “racial purity” in order to feel better about yourselves. Even worse is the fact that you decide to embarrass yourself and advertise your ignorance by posting vicious, bigotted messages on websites, aiming your hate-filled rants against invisible anonymous strangers. I’ll leave it to you to figure out how that reflects on your own character and, indeed, your own mental state from a psychiatric perspective.

      But do you want to know what’s the really, really dirty little secret about racists such as the BNP and their supporters who believe in these ludicrous ideas in order to assuage their own underlying feelings of inferiority ? Thanks to their stupidity, their incredible ignorance, and their malevolence, compared to the rest of the human race they really are inferior.

      So, the next step is up to you. You can either continue living out the rest of your life in a delusional fog of ignorance, hatred, and in the company of inferior people suffering from clinical psychiatric disorders, or you can educate yourself and live a saner existence in the real world.

      Your choice, “Isaac”.

    25. Rumbold — on 20th May, 2009 at 10:43 am  

      Well said Jai. There’s really nothing else to add.

    26. sonia — on 20th May, 2009 at 10:49 am  

      Hmm - what about newspapers taking other political parties money?? why single out just the BNP? really - are they the only ‘racists’ in town? the only ones who are discriminating?

      If you are calling for media impartiality from political parties, that is one thing.

      Singling out the BNP - i can’t really see is going to do anything apart from - demonising the BNP - and thus make them more attractive to certain people.

    27. sonia — on 20th May, 2009 at 10:50 am  

      why did anyone bother to respond to isaac brown?

    28. Shamit — on 20th May, 2009 at 11:09 am  

      Vikrant/Jai/Ravi

      Excellent.

      I hope Mr. Brown now has the decency and the sense of British fair play to accept that he has been completely outclassed here.

      And I would strongly suggest you pay heed to Jai’s comments @23.

    29. Isaac Brown — on 21st May, 2009 at 8:28 am  

      Jai – your comments are familiar and typically confused; after the last Ice Age around 12,000 years ago Northern European people were forced down to what we now recognise as southern England (the UK islands were still joined to continental Europe), Southern Spain and an area around where modern day Iran now is. They were few in number (mytochondrial DNA tracing indicates all present day white women are descended from only 7 women ancestors from that era – see Prof Brian Sykes “The Seven Daughters of Eve”) but having originally migrated out of sub Saharan Africa about 150,000 year previously, had been subjected to cognitive selection pressures by cold northern climates, raising their average IQ over that of our cousins who remained in Africa. That average IQ difference remains to this very day. It also explains why “a huge number of people from the Mediterranean countries in particular share a common ancestry with Iranians”.

      The ancient Egyptians were white people but were ultimately destroyed by interbreeding with Negro slaves. (let’s hope that doesn’t happen to our people in the UK).

      You claim “Furthermore, the level of genetic difference between, for example, a Scandinavian person and someone from sub-Saharan Africa is actually minimal; there is literally greater variation between chimpanzees” – perhaps so, but tiny genetic differences can create disproportionately large phenotypic differences – eg the smallest and largest dogs differ by only a few base pair differences out of millions on a growth gene. Black Africans and whites may have only a tiny genetic difference but physically and intellectually they differ greatly.

      See
      Race Evolution and Behaviour by J Philippe Rushton

      http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Race_Evolution_Behavior.pdf

      Alice Roberts has a pretty face but she is not a scientist, she’s a doctor – there is a difference.

      Your comments about British history “A huge number of villages, towns, cities on this island were originally established by the Romans” – yes, the Romans were part of the white European race (formed after that ice age I mentioned earlier).

      The rest of your posting is not worthy of comment. You are typical of an ignorant underclass which has been allowed to form by a poor education system and far too much damaging ethnic diversity. Let’s hope one day we get our country back – after all, we Brits gave you yours back (not that you are able to do anything useful with it)

      Ta ta.

    30. Jai — on 21st May, 2009 at 11:27 am  

      “Isaac” (or should I say “Bert Rustle” ?),

      How nice for you to grace us with your august presence yet again. Welcome back.

      after the last Ice Age around 12,000 years ago Northern European people

      Technically they were “Eastern European/Western Asian people”. They were not exactly from Scandinavia or Siberia, despite your attempt at deliberately inaccurate wordplay.

      were forced down to what we now recognise as southern England (the UK islands were still joined to continental Europe), Southern Spain and an area around where modern day Iran now is.

      Again, a faulty and incomplete assertion on your part. They migrated in several directions, including a significant series of migrations through all the Mediterranean regions, with some groups eventually arriving in what is now Britain. You’ve also omitted the important fact that there were migrations through and from what is now Iran into the north and northwest of the Indian subcontinent.

      The hint is in the first part of the name “Indo-European”. And since you’ve deigned to cast a favourable glance in the direction of the inhabitants of what used to be called Persia, I regret to inform you that some of us are ancestrally linked to Iranians far, far more than you are. Even modern-day Iranians are perfectly aware of this.

      mytochondrial DNA tracing

      The correct spelling is “mitochondrial”. But thanks for confirming that your own scientific background actually isn’t anywhere near as rigorous as you would have other people mistakenly believe.

      had been subjected to cognitive selection pressures by cold northern climates, raising their average IQ

      Your amateurish little hypothesis is somewhat undermined by the fact that, for most of the last 12,000 years, northern and northwestern Europe were amongst the most scientifically, technologically and culturally backward regions in the entire world. The disparity in relation to the Mediterranean regions was comparable to the difference in civilisational development between the nomadic Native American tribes of what is now North America and the extremely advanced civilisations in Central and Southern America, particularly the Aztecs and the Mayans. If your so-called “theory” was correct, the level of development between Northern/Western Europe and Southern Europe should have been analogous (or as close as possible, taking into consideration local geographical and climatic factors along with other local resources). But this was very obviously not the case, because Southern Europe’s civilisations were far closer to those of India, Persia, China, and the more advanced cultures in Central & Southern America. And that’s before we even begin to discuss matters such as the Indus Valley civilisation, which further undermines your misinformed assertions.

      Northern Europe, however, including what is now Britain (and including “your ancestors”, to use one of your terms), was on a par with some of the most underdeveloped and backward parts of sub-Saharan Africa which you so clearly despise. How unfortunate for you.

      I could provide numerous references, but since you’re an aficionado of second-hand information gleaned from books, may I take this opportunity to recommend Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. I think you’ll find it an enlightening read. It would also be worth your while to familiarise yourself with Rubicon, Persian Fire and Millennium (all by Tom Holland) before you move onto more academic tomes.

      Suitable starting points in relation to the latter are the Kurgan Hypothesis, the Anatolian Hypothesis (and the various cultures involved in both), the Y chromosome Haplogroup F, along with R1a, R1b, R2, H, I1a, I1b, J, K, L, M, N, O, and Q, plus L1b, L2a, L2a1a, L3b, L3d, M1, E-M78 sub-haplogroups (E-V12, E-V22, E-V65), E-V13 (also known as E1b1b1a2) and the E-M81 haplogroup (particularly E3b1b-M81), E-M78, mtDNA Haplogroup N1a, T and T2.

      The ancient Egyptians were white people but were ultimately destroyed by interbreeding with Negro slaves.

      You forgot to mention that the ancient Egyptians were descended from the survivors of Atlantis, who were themselves descended from a rag-tag fugitive fleet of humanoid aliens led by Lorne Greene (or Edward James Olmos, depending on your personal preference).

      Alice Roberts has a pretty face but she is not a scientist, she’s a doctor – there is a difference.

      In that case, you may wish to contact the BBC and inform them of the reasons why you feel she is not qualified to publicly comment on the matter of race and human ancestry. It may also be beneficial for you to simultaneously apprise them of the details of your own academic and professional background, and why this would make you a credible authority on the matter.

      While you’re at it, I suggest you should also explain to the BBC why you appear to be unaware that medical doctors have one of the most rigorous scientific backgrounds of any profession in the world, at both the undergraduate and postgraduate levels.

      – yes, the Romans were part of the white European race (formed after that ice age I mentioned earlier).

      Apart from the influx of genetic material due to intermarriage with the inhabitants of regions which later fell under Roman rule, the Romans were originally descended from Indo-Europeans. Again, there’s a little hint in the first part of the name, before the hyphen.

      raising their average IQ over that of our cousins who remained in Africa. That average IQ difference remains to this very day…..The ancient Egyptians were white people but were ultimately destroyed by interbreeding with Negro slaves. (let’s hope that doesn’t happen to our people in the UK).

      It must absolutely kill a latter day George Fitzhugh such as yourself that Barack Obama is currently President of the United States, given the fact that (apart from the level of power inherent in the position) both Barack and his wife possess academic and professional backgrounds (clearly reflected in their accomplishments and level of intellectual firepower) which effectively destroy the claims of delusional racial supremacists such as you.

      Mr Fitzhugh, by the way, was another pseudo-scientific racist with a particular (and, like yourself, peculiar) obsession with the intellectual capacities of black people in comparison with white people (and their respective “place” in American society) who was comprehensively discredited about 150 years ago. Your own superstitious beliefs are somewhat out of step with the modern world, to say the least.

      Black Africans and whites may have only a tiny genetic difference but physically and intellectually they differ greatly.

      And exactly how do you think your own behaviour, beliefs, and appallingly amateurish understanding of genetics, history and anthropology reflect on your own “intellectual capacity”, both as an individual and, for example, in comparison with the present incumbent of the White House or, indeed, the numerous Black African and South Asian doctors currently working in the NHS ? ;)

      That’s a rhetorical question, by the way. I think we all know that your cognitive faculties and level of self-awareness are as detached from reality as your understanding of European history and, indeed, your own personal place in the world.

      You are typical of an ignorant underclass which has been allowed to form by a poor education system and far too much damaging ethnic diversity.

      Oh, believe me, “Isaac”, my educational background is far in excess of what yours clearly is and I undoubtedly “outclass” you on all levels, metaphorically, professionally and ancestrally. You have no idea who you’re actually talking to, but it’s certainly amusing playing games with an undereducated peasant such as yourself. It’s a case of the proverbial cat playing with a ball of wool – or, if you prefer, an entertaining case of some barely-literate country bumpkin with delusions of racial grandeur stumbling into the city and seeking to awe the locals with his “knowledge” due to having recently been taught the alphabet.

      Somewhere in this green and pleasant land, a village really is missing an idiot.

      Let’s hope one day we get our country back – after all, we Brits gave you yours back (not that you are able to do anything useful with it)

      Looks like your understanding of global geopolitics and macroeconomics is as pitiful as your knowledge of everything else you’ve hilariously dared to comment on. But that’s okay – in the years ahead, China and India will both continue to forge their strategic alliances with the United States and all three nations will reinforce their place as the global superpowers of this century and beyond, followed by Russia and Brazil, while intellectually substandard fools like you are muttering away incoherently about “racial superiority”….. A wretched little footnote in human history, a temporary aberration in the progress of civilisation, a misguided, misinformed laughing stock from the perspective of your own ancestors prior to the 19th century and inevitably in the judgement of future historians……

      …..And, indeed, an increasingly sad, obsolete relic who was already irrelevant by 2009, dreaming of lost Empire, superstitiously clutching at the phantom of “white supremacy”, pathetic, pitiful, and ultimately forgotten.

      Now like a good Taliban “scholar”, perhaps you should go back to those websites and books you’re so fond of selectively and distortedly extracting second-hand knowledge from in order to reinforce the ridiculous backward ideas you’re already predisposed to believe in, instead of embarrassing yourself by screaming for attention from your betters and consistently making even more of a fool of yourself than you already have.

      There’s the door. Off you go, Clive of India. Ta ta.

    31. Amrit — on 21st May, 2009 at 6:00 pm  

      Isaac – your comments are familiar and typically confused

      Fixed. :-D

      Isaac, YOU go back to where you came from, for the zillionth time - that is, up your own arse.

    32. Don — on 21st May, 2009 at 7:50 pm  

      The ancient Egyptians were white people but were ultimately destroyed by interbreeding with Negro slaves. (let’s hope that doesn’t happen to our people in the UK).

      You are so far out of your depth here that it is past amusing. I have seldom seen such a poor grasp of mere pop-science. I can’t believe Jai is even spending time on this.

      Quick question,

      yes, the Romans were part of the white European race

      From which parts of the world were the Roman garrison in Britain chiefly drawn? Hint: Not Italy. Idiot.

    33. Ravi Naik — on 21st May, 2009 at 8:58 pm  

      Northern Europe, however, including what is now Britain (and including “your ancestors”, to use one of your terms), was on a par with some of the most underdeveloped and backward parts of sub-Saharan Africa which you so clearly despise. How unfortunate for you.

      In fact, sub-Saharan Africans got into the iron age much earlier than the Northern Europeans and anyone else. Not that you will find that in any white supremacist literature.

      Jai - spotless reply in #30. Isaac Brown, however, is not Bert Rustle. Isaac is a school drop-out, and got all his knowledge from Stormfront. Because he lacks mental skills and basic knowledge about History and Science, he will not understand what you are saying.

      Instead, he will continue to believe that he is part of the master race because the reality is much more cruel to him. And #31 seems like a good advice for Mr. Brown.

    34. chairwoman — on 21st May, 2009 at 9:22 pm  

      “Northern Europe, however, including what is now Britain (and including “your ancestors”, to use one of your terms), was on a par with some of the most underdeveloped and backward parts of sub-Saharan Africa which you so clearly despise. How unfortunate for you.”

      I believe it was Disraeli when confronted by a parliamentary Victorian ‘Isaac Brown’ who said something along the lines of ‘When the noble gentlemen were savages in a far off land, my ancestors were priests in the Temple of Solomon’.

      Plus ca change.

    35. Isaac Brown — on 22nd May, 2009 at 7:55 am  

      Jai – After wading through the first part of your confused posting – with gems like “after the last Ice Age around 12,000 years ago Northern European people
      Technically were “Eastern European/Western Asian people” – I notice an alarming symptom of narcissism creeping in (to go with your obviously large ego) – “Oh, believe me, “Isaac”, my educational background is far in excess of what yours clearly is and I undoubtedly “outclass” you on all levels, metaphorically, professionally and ancestrally. You have no idea who you’re actually talking to, but it’s certainly amusing playing games with an undereducated peasant such as yourself”. My assessment of your postings tell me you are probably just finishing GCSEs – don’t bandy words with your intellectual and educational superiors.

      As far as IQ measurements of different races is concerned, I guess people like you will always reject Jensen, Murray, Rushton, Eysenck, Lynn etc – that’s your problem. True, individual populations have a range of abilities and IQs, not all blacks are stupid, but can you find me any evidence which shows the black African to be as intelligent, on average as a white European? If so, post it. Prof Richard Lynn has found IQ scores in Black Africa at an average of 63 (see also “IQ and the wealth of nations” Lynn/Van Hanen). When you have spent 50 years researching this field and published papers and books, then I might respect you. How many books and papers have YOU published? None. You are just fool.

    36. Ravi Naik — on 22nd May, 2009 at 8:50 am  

      If so, post it. Prof Richard Lynn has found IQ scores in Black Africa at an average of 63 (see also “IQ and the wealth of nations” Lynn/Van Hanen). When you have spent 50 years researching this field and published papers and books, then I might respect you. How many books and papers have YOU published? None. You are just fool.

      Richard Lynn is a fraud. To calculate the IQ scores of Equatorial Guinea, he used the IQ scores of a Spanish school for children with mental retardation. The result, an IQ of 55. Lynn’s calculations are full of arbitrary estimations, and his work has been severely criticised by many of his colleagues in more prestigious institutions.

      Richard Lynn, Charles Murray and Philippe Rushton can get away with it because their field is Psycology (not considered a real science because it doesn’t follow a strict scientific methodology), and much of their work published was not peer-reviewed, instead it was funded and published independently by an extremist organisation.

      So, their credibility is zero outside Stormfront.

      True, individual populations have a range of abilities and IQs, not all blacks are stupid, but can you find me any evidence which shows the black African to be as intelligent, on average as a white European?

      Yes - it’s called the Flynn effect, which shows that in the Western world, there is a gain of 15 IQ points every 50 years. In the 1900s, white Americans had a lower IQ than modern day African Americans. And no, gene mutations do not change that fast.

      What we are accounting for is the environment. Studies show that Polish and Italian immigrants in the US had a 15-point IQ deficit in regards to other whites already settled there. This is the same deficit that exists today between blacks and whites, why would we consider one the result of the environment, and the other the result of “defective” genes?

      And you fool no one with your “educational background”. :)

    37. Jai — on 22nd May, 2009 at 11:20 am  

      Oh, dear, “Isaac”. You really are intent on making this as easy as possible for me, aren’t you ? If you had any sense of self-preservation or indeed an awareness of your own limitations, you’d just cut your losses and acknowledge exactly how out of your depth you really are, instead of giving the rest of us more and more opportunities to undermine you.

      And yet, like Anjem Choudary (with whom you share so many, many characteristics), you just blissfully carry on, chasing your own tail, unwilling and unable to psychologically acknowledge the gaping holes in your own arguments, sneering away, while the rest of the world points and laughs at the delusional misfit that you so obviously are.

      Never mind. I’ll indulge your masochistic tendencies.

      I notice an alarming symptom of narcissism creeping in (to go with your obviously large ego)

      That’s hilarious coming from someone as glaringly pretentious as you, especially as someone who pretends to be some kind of “academic” and “scientist”, and (most of all) as an individual attempting to promote the notion of his own “inherent racial superiority”.

      So we can add “psychological projection” to the already long list of your deficiencies ? Great stuff. Would you like a new spade to help you keep digging, or is hole you find yourself in deep enough for you now ?

      My assessment of your postings tell me you are probably just finishing GCSEs

      You’re hardly in any kind of intellectual position to “assess” anyone else’s statements full-stop, let alone have any credibility in the matter.

      Nice attempt to provoke me, although if you had an accurate understanding of human nature you’d realise that you really are trying to punch far above your weight if you think any of your playground barbs have any effect on me.

      Let’s be honest, “Isaac” – I think we both know that, out of the two of us, there’s only one person here who’s only educated to the GCSE level. I’ll give you a clue: It’s not me.

      – don’t bandy words with your intellectual and educational superiors.

      Ah, reversing my own previous remarks aimed at you in another effort to insult me, eh ? Surely even you can do better than that ?

      Then again, probably not.

      As far as IQ measurements of different races is concerned, I guess people like you will always reject Jensen, Murray, Rushton, Eysenck, Lynn etc – that’s your problem. True, individual populations have a range of abilities and IQs, not all blacks are stupid, but can you find me any evidence which shows the black African to be as intelligent, on average as a white European? If so, post it. Prof Richard Lynn has found IQ scores in Black Africa at an average of 63 (see also “IQ and the wealth of nations” Lynn/Van Hanen).

      Effectively responded to by Ravi in #35.

      Oh, I had to remark on the following earlier “gem”:

      Negro slaves

      “Negro” ? What an incredibly obsolete term to use. Are you expecting an attack from the 19th century Union Army ?

      I regret to inform you that Jefferson Davis lost the Civil War. Must be terribly disappointing to find out that you and your merry little band of outcastes has been hiding in the undergrowth for the last 150 years for absolutely no reason. General Robert E. Lee was a thorough gentleman when discussing the terms of surrender, though; he definitely deserves credit for that.

      Incidentally, I’m still laughing at your pitiful attempt to misappropriate the Romans and their contribution to human civilisation. I’m sure that the Romans themselves would have found it highly amusing too, considering that they were strategic business partners with the Indian subcontinent and regarded the inhabitants of the latter as very much their equals, whereas they viewed your own ancestors as barbaric savages that they decided to beat into submission and whose territory they comprehensively (and very easily) annexed. Suffering from a bit of historical Stockholm Syndrome, are we ? ;)

    38. Jai — on 22nd May, 2009 at 11:22 am  

      When you have spent 50 years researching this field and published papers and books, then I might respect you. How many books and papers have YOU published?

      You see, “Isaac”, this is yet another reason why the BNP and associated psychotically racist clowns like you are essentially the British version of the Taliban. Apart from the disastrous existential impact on this country’s economy, infrastructure and indeed continuing viability if the BNP actually implemented their ill-conceived “ideas” (such as they are), you are unable to correctly figure anything out for yourself. Everything you know – or, more accurately, everything you think you know – is based on fragmentary second-hand knowledge derived from feverishly poring over the writings of so-called “scholars” and “experts” whose own findings and motivations are either highly suspect or whose work you lack the intellectual honesty, moral integrity and logical clarity to properly understand.

      Everything is driven by your own skewed interpretation, effectively resulting in a form of intellectual dyslexia where you already have a distorted, morally bankrupt agenda, and you simply interpret and pick & choose information to fit your existing warped perspective. And then you quote this alleged-expert, and that alleged-expert, while continuing to reinforce the inalienable fact that you’re unable to hold a single independent thought and objectively-derived conclusion in your fragile little mind.

      All of which results in the BNP and your cousins in Afghanistan & northwest Pakistan being unequivocally delusional, misguided, ignorant, psychopathic……and inferior.

      Quite an uppity little person, aren’t you “Isaac” ? You really must make a conscious decision in future to come to terms with your own place in the grand scheme of things and not get ideas above your station in life.

      I trust this has been an educational experience for you. You should have engaged in a quiet, dignified exit when your attempt at promoting racist propaganda completely backfired and you realised that you’d catastrophically underestimated the audience you launched an unprovoked attack on, but like a couple of other commenters who recently tried to pull the same misbegotten stunt, hopefully you are now aware that I am not the type of man you would want as an enemy.

      In future, as a sincere member of the British Taliban, perhaps you should just stick to imagining pipedreams about resurrecting the Caliphate – er, Empire. It’s the safer course of action for you, and definitely a better option than getting involved in matters you don’t clearly understand, triggering situations you can’t effectively handle, and trying to provoke fights with people you can’t possibly defeat.

    39. Jai — on 22nd May, 2009 at 12:02 pm  

      Anyway, for readers of PP living in the real world (unlike the BNP and our friend Isaac), here is an excellent initial online primer about the genetic history of Europeans and other groups with whom there is a degree of common ancestry.

      There is plenty of other relevant reading material around, of course, but this one is very readable for people interested in an initial (but comprehensive) overview and contains numerous links to other associated online articles. The bottom of the page also includes 64 footnotes and 30 references, all of which are verifiable, reputable, and have been used to construct this summary.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Europe

    40. Refresh — on 22nd May, 2009 at 1:09 pm  

      Jai and Ravi

      Some great information and responses.

      One thing I recall is that the economies of Africa prior to slavery and colonisation were pretty strong. Much much better than they are today.

      Ravi, the point you make about the environment and so called intelligence is wholly relevant. By the environment we mean economy amongst other things.

      I am pretty sure one of the things that have balanced the race issue here in the UK (and Europe and US I guess), is the very strong showing of the Indian, Indonesian, Malaysian, Chinese economies - as well as the anti-racism efforts.

    41. Jai — on 22nd May, 2009 at 4:25 pm  

      Refresh,

      Regarding your last paragraph, you’re correct in suggesting that, as with many other things in life, perception of a particular people comes down to the latter’s level of wealth and power in comparison with oneself.

      To give a relevant example from the subcontinent’s relatively recent past (in terms of its overall antiquity, anyway), European visitors — including from Britain — certainly did not have any illusions of superiority when their contact with India started increasing noticeably again during the Mughal period. There are even records of correspondence between Queen Elizabeth I and Emperor Akbar where the former’s deferential tone is very clear; I’m sure you already know about English diplomats and traders struggling to gain an audience with Indian rulers (or be taken seriously by them) because they were regarded as having relatively little to offer, and later when they did manage to secure admittance to the upper echelons they were absolutely stunned by the magnificence and power of the Mughal court.

      The problem of a racist superiority complex still didn’t develop for hundreds of years until the early 19th century (and given the comparative levels of wealth and sophistication, they hadn’t previously thought they were in any position at all to feel that way in any case); until that point, there was endemic intermarriage with local Indian women on the part of East India Company officers and various mercenaries, and (to use some modern terms) the extent of widespread cultural assimilation and integration was to a degree which would surprise most modern-day white Brits (although probably not the backpacking crew) and would completely shock the BNP and similar racists. The historical whitewashing that occurred during the later Victorian period has a hell of a lot to answer for, although luckily a vast amount of authenticated information and records from the previous couple of centuries still exists.

      As for Africa, many regions there were considerably more advanced during the course of that continent’s long history than is widely known (and certainly more than the white supremacists would admit). Ravi’s already provided one indication, but numerous other examples include the ancient pyramid-building Nubian kingdoms in what is now Sudan, along with various other empires later on.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubian_pyramids

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_empires

      Anyway, like I said before, the bottom line is that ultimately it really is all about money and political/military strength.

    42. Isaac Brown — on 23rd May, 2009 at 10:21 am  

      Ravi - statements like “Richard Lynn is a fraud” and an inability to spell (”Psycology”) indicates that like Jai you are a 15 year old school boy, with an over exaggerated sense of your own self worth. Perhaps you feel a victim of “racism” - poor boy. I’m sure you deserve it. Anyway, the pair of you bugger off, I have more important things to do that try to educate the uneducable.

    43. Ravi Naik — on 23rd May, 2009 at 11:30 am  

      Ravi - statements like “Richard Lynn is a fraud” and an inability to spell (”Psycology”) indicates that like Jai you are a 15 year old school boy, with an over exaggerated sense of your own self worth.

      Jai doesn’t make the spelling mistakes I do, much to the contrary, he is one of the best writers we have in this blog. And I have to say, for a white supremacist like yourself to accuse others of feeling an “exaggerated sense of” their own self worth, well, I really have to thank you for the laugh.

      Perhaps you feel a victim of “racism” - poor boy. I’m sure you deserve it.

      Actually, no. Racists like yourself amuse me, and gives me great joy to see that you are unable to respond to any single point that was presented to you.

      Anyway, the pair of you bugger off, I have more important things to do that try to educate the uneducable.

      Yes, Isaac, run. It is a good thing that you are smart enough to know that you are out of your league here. Run back to stormfront, which is where you belong.

    44. chairwoman — on 23rd May, 2009 at 11:48 am  

      Ravi - Don’t bother Sweetie, it’s such a waste of time.

    45. Jai — on 23rd May, 2009 at 1:46 pm  

      Well, I see that our guest from the British Taliban Party still isn’t getting the message. Another less-than-stellar response from “Isaac”.

      like Jai you are a 15 year old school boy,

      On the contrary, Gunga Din. Catastrophically wrong on all counts. I’m what you’re most afraid of, what absolutely terrifies racists like you – I’m the very thing that destroys your ludicrous notions of supremacy, on absolutely every level.

      I’m your worst nightmare, “Isaac”.

      with an over exaggerated sense of your own self worth.

      Now now, Anjem. I think we both know who really has an “over-exaggerated sense of his own self-worth”. Everything you say and do simply reinforces your own inferiority.

      But then you already know that, don’t you ? ;)

      Of course you do.

      I have more important things to do

      I’m sure that worshipping at your homemade altar dedicated to Hitler and making sure your white pointed hood is always nicely ironed while you attempt to decipher anthropological, genetic and historical texts you don’t have the intellectual firepower to properly understand takes up an awful lot of your time. Must be terribly confusing for you, “Sheikh” Isaac. Little baby steps, remember – that’s the best way to accurately comprehend facts that keep going over your head.

      that try to educate the uneducable.

      “Than try to educate…..”, Einstein. Best to get it right yourself before you start lecturing people like Ravi about their “inability to spell”. Do try to keep up.

      Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. And know that there will always be “inglourious basterds” like us who are more than willing & able to destroy the deranged efforts of pitiful Neo-Nazis like you, and that we will take enormous pleasure in it, with no mercy for you whatsoever.

      Run, motherfucker, run. While you still can.

    46. Jai — on 23rd May, 2009 at 1:51 pm  

      Jai doesn’t make the spelling mistakes I do, much to the contrary, he is one of the best writers we have in this blog.

      Thank you very much Ravi, that’s a really nice thing to say. I always enjoy reading what you write too and believe that you’re an invaluable member of this website’s group of regular commenters.

    47. damon — on 23rd May, 2009 at 2:15 pm  

      I think I understand where these BNP types are coming from, and also think there’s not much you can say that can placate them.
      They just don’t like the reality that is multi-cultural, multi-racial Britain. Having known a number of people who thought like that (25 years ago) - they speak their minds without a care, and it’s not pretty (or desirable).
      But even back then, the racists I knew were grumbling about how the demographic of our part of south London was changing, as the BME population steadily rose.
      One complaint would be, when reading the local newspaper, how a disproportunate number of stories concerning street crime gave discriptions of the perpetrators being black. Today, white racists have to keep their (horrible) opinions under wraps as the Thornton Heath teddy boys that our father’s spoke about with some nostalgia, are long gone, and today Thornton Heath is a place where it’s young guys of BME origin who walk with a spring in their step. (Much to the annoyance of middle aged white racists).

      As much as I despise the BNP and ignorant people like that - they could show you list after list of negative things that have stemmed from developing this urban multi-culturalism.
      In my own area they could just type ”Croydon gangs” into google, and come up with this:
      http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=croydon+gangs&meta=&aq=f&oq=
      (Did you see the article titled ”Tooled up Tamil gangs”?)

      And then on Youtube, you just have to type the word ”Southall” into it, to get a bunch of videos that soon lead you into BNP race hate and stories of illegall immigration and lawlessness.
      Type in ”London gangs” and these BNP people will be jabbing a finger at the screen saying ”See? See?”

      One of the Youtubes is titled ”Muslim gangs on the streets of London” - and I’m buggered if I know how to argue against the racists I used to know who can only look at the world two-dimensionally - or to put it another way, ”tribally”.

      To them, Rath Yatra celebrations in East Ham are something not to be happy about - but are more likely to bring to their minds that Margaret Thatcher word ‘’swamped”.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2rSnI6qJMw

      I went to an anti National Front protest in Maidstone Kent in the 1980’s and I remember the NF’s banner at the front of their march, which said ”Keep Maidstone White”.

      Maybe the only thing to do is take Chairwoman’s advice @ 44.

    48. Amrit — on 23rd May, 2009 at 3:02 pm  

      Oh my God.

      I LOVE MY HAREM.

      Jai, I sincerely hope that in about 20 years’ time, you’re going to be a main character in some stirring/uplifting film, with wit like that.

      That is all. Thank you :-D

    49. Jai — on 24th May, 2009 at 6:19 pm  

      Thanks Amrit. Verbally beating the shit out of “the cream of the BNP” isn’t very difficult, especially when the other party appears to be living in 1809 and is surrounded by grunting Neanderthals who are excessively impressed by his misuse of hoity-toity-sounding “book-learnin’ words”, but I guess that’s what happens when you’re a member of a psychotic little racist cult with its very own Mad Mullah in the form of Neurotic Nick Griffin.

    50. Shamit — on 25th May, 2009 at 11:29 pm  

      Isaac/Bert

      Politics is not for people with intellectual maturity that a 10 year old would be embarrassed with.

      With no understanding of what challenges Britain faces and the pros and cons of those policy choices we have in front of us — you and your mates at the BNP are outclassed here and in the real political world.

      You have continuously questioned our intelligence especially mine, Jai’s and Ravi’s — but you still haven’t answered the questions we posed to you and your bosses about the impact of your stupid policies.

      So I reiterate Jai’s point - run with your tail between your legs you stupid boy. And DON’T COME BACK BEFORE YOU DO SOME READING.

    51. Jai — on 26th May, 2009 at 9:03 am  

      Well said Shamit.

      ************************

      A little clarification about Dr Alice Roberts, since her name was mentioned a couple of times earlier — Not only is she obviously a medical doctor with a specialism in Anatomy, but she also holds a PhD in Paleoanthropology.

    52. Jai — on 26th May, 2009 at 9:03 am  

      Incidentally, the book based on her current documentary series has just come out; it’s actually very thorough and goes into much more academic detail than the TV programme, including lots of information about genetics, mitochondria etc. Interesting reading.

    53. IHATETHEBNP — on 5th June, 2009 at 10:45 pm  

      I hate the BNP

    54. Adam — on 21st June, 2009 at 11:48 am  

      The question I pose to all those who support a boycott of newspapers receiving BNP advertising money is do they not see the obvious irony in claiming to be democrats, & “anti-fascist”, while adopting the classic strategies of all totalitarian political movements/regimes, the boycott & by extension the disruption of lawful public meetings.

      The Nazis began their ascent to power by calling for a boycott of Jewish businesses, which in 1933, on gaining power became national German policy. Since the BNP are a legitimate political party, who represent the views of their voters, no matter how objectionable we may find those views, it is essential we allow them the same freedoms as we accord any other political party. It is worth reminding people of the famous quote from Voltaire “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”. Tolerating only views which we find acceptable is no tolerance at all.

      If the BNP were advocating people to boycott non-white businesses & shops, or to attack non-whites on sight then they would have crossed a line from legitimate political speech to terrrorism, & as such should be boycotted, banned or both. Though individual BNP members may do such things that is no more reason to boycott them than to boycott Labour because some of their members comitt fraud or drive while drunk. Until such time as they do, the best way to defeat the BNP is to engage them in open debate. Trying to cut the ground from under the feet of a legitimate political party merely serves to grant them the status of martyrs, & will bring thousands more of the marginalised and angry, white working class to their cause.

      I would suggest a far more profitable direction would be to examine why the BNP has succeeded in fifteen years in going from a political irrelevance which only appeared on the ballots in the East End of London, & who probably lost more deposits than the votes they gained, to a genuinely national political party of sufficient gravitas that our Ministers & the leader of the Opposition feel it necessary to instruct the public not to support, even if it means voting for their mainstream opponent. The British people, though often intolerant & narrow-minded, are not at heart racists, & have a deep seated historical aversion to fascism. There must therefore be something extremely wrong on “the Isle” when Brits start flocking to the likes of the BNP. Honestly address the root causes, [and the emphasis is on the honest, no matter how much "tough love" is required to do so], will prove far more successful than the politically exciting process of of boycotting, which will in the end prove counter-productive, & even serve to strengthen the BNP.

      Those who believe otherwise may do well to reflect on the words of Winston Churchill, [& few men are better qualified in "anti-fascism" than he, being one of a tiny minority who recognised Hitler for the despot he was even BEFORE he gained power], who said. “when fascism appears again in Great Britain, it will do so under the guise of anti-fascism”. When I hear people calling for boycotts or the disruption of lawful political meetings -the classic tactics of fascism, I fear he may have been correct. If the BNP are to be defeated it can only happen on the debating floor, not the street. To do so by the left adopt their tactics is a hollow victory, equivalent to defeating Hitler by Stalin, which as history has shown merely exchanged one tyranny for another.



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