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  • Reaction to acid attack on Afghani girls


    by Sunny
    15th May, 2009 at 12:31 pm    

    Sent to me as a press release

    British Muslims for Secular Democracy is deeply concerned at news of the 12th May poison gas attack at a girls school in Charikar, north-east Afghanistan, which resulted in the hospitalisation of 98 people (including 84 students).

    This is the third poisoning incident to take place at a girls’ school in the past fortnight. bmsd believes that every child has the right to obtain an education in a safe, secure environment and strongly condemns these attacks.

    While no group or individual has accepted responsibility for the poisonings, Education Ministry officials say they believe it is a series of poison gas attacks by militants who oppose education for girls.

    Attacks on girls’ schools have increased in the past year, particularly in the east and south of the country, as the Taliban insurgency has gathered momentum. bmsd urges the Afghan authorities to conduct a thorough, impartial investigation into these attacks, and to strongly resist the inegalitarian principles underpinning them.

    Dr Shaaz Mahboob of bmsd said: “All Muslims and non-Muslims should condemn this cowardly act on defenceless young girls who are struggling to continue their education and contribute to the development of their country in an increasingly hostile environment. We all support these students, and it is imperative that whoever has carried out this attack should be brought to justice as per the country’s laws.”


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: South Asia,Terrorism






    36 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. pickles

      New blog post: Reaction to acid attack on Afghani girls http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/4554




    1. The Common Humanist — on 15th May, 2009 at 12:48 pm  

      ‘kin medievalism!

      Well, at least Munir will be pleased that the Taleban have struck a decisive blow against the scourge of girls being educated.

    2. Sofia — on 15th May, 2009 at 1:00 pm  

      This is disgusting. It makes me wonder what kind of Islam these people believe in…they seem to want their kids brought up with ignorant and illiterate mothers so they can control them with their version of a religion…

    3. Amrit — on 15th May, 2009 at 1:07 pm  

      I know it’s terrible, but sometimes I wish suicide bombers would turn on the Taliban themselves. And all those who try to hold back progress.

      What glorious Allah-blessed manly-man soldiers you are, poisoning little girls!

      My heart goes out to all the Muslims who constantly have to dissociate themselves from this kind of shit. I worked with an Afghani guy once, he was deeply, devoutly religious and one of the most instantly-likeable people I have ever met. (If ever you read this, Mohamad, sorry for embarrassing you! Haha). :-D

    4. The Common Humanist — on 15th May, 2009 at 1:35 pm  

      I work with a v nice Muslim chap, a fine colleague, also instantly likeable and deeply devout.
      Every headline like this is a knife in his heart.
      (no names as have plugged this site to him and he may be watching!)

    5. The Common Humanist — on 15th May, 2009 at 1:37 pm  

      “”they seem to want their kids brought up with ignorant and illiterate mothers so they can control them with their version of a religion…”"

      It is all about men having power over women. Old fashioned gender power politics given added violence and ‘weight’ through a particular interpretation of the Koran.

      Remember what that Pakistani Jihadi said on ‘Dispatches’ - ‘Women are only good for domestic purposes’. Sickening.

    6. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 1:50 pm  

      The Common Humanist

      “Well, at least Munir will be pleased that the Taleban have struck a decisive blow against the scourge of girls being educated.”

      You may be a common humanist but you are an uncommon liar. Because I fail to respond to your muslim baiting in demanding all Muslims (uniquely) condemn every wrong done by another Muslim you attribute such vile things to me.

      Islam makes education for women an obligation; you are clearly confusing it with Judaism. This attack has nothing to do with Islam but the hate mongerers dont need excuses.

      It is of course ironic since you DO support the burning of Afghani men. women and children by US and UK planes.

    7. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 1:55 pm  

      Can Common Humanist and Amrit explain why Hindus arent obliged to disaccosiated themselves from Hinduvata thugs ripping up pregnant women or Christians from the Lords Army or the Serbs or Jews from Jewish settlers etc etc ?

      “It is all about men having power over women. Old fashioned gender power politics given added violence and ‘weight’ through a particular interpretation of the Koran”

      Utter rubbish - there is nothing in the Quran that could even remotely allow this- female education is explicitly encouraged (find me one verse of hadith that discourages them) and using chemical weapons and attacking girls are both forbidden

      If it was religion as you and the liars claim other Islamic countries would also be banning female education- they dont - not Saudi not Iran (in both countries there are more female graduates than male)

      This is culture not Islam

    8. imran khan — on 15th May, 2009 at 2:04 pm  

      Come on Shamit there are people here now trying to stir up community tension against Muslims by implying they endorse this. So does your protection only extend to non-Muslims? You’ve set the bar now you need to defend the accusations being hurled at Munir.

    9. imran khan — on 15th May, 2009 at 2:09 pm  

      “Well, at least Munir will be pleased that the Taleban have struck a decisive blow against the scourge of girls being educated.”

      You’ll find that this is a cultural thing in the area and nothing to do with religion. Its amazing how all cultural things are implied as being just an Islamic thing.

      This is a terrible act but the Taleban interpretation of Islam is intermixed with their cultural beliefs. As such they are being exposed for their hypocracy.

      Last time they claimed that girls schools were shut due to lack of security. Clearly this lie is now exposed for what it is.

      Also even the most strictly orthodox Islamic countries in the Gulf have education for Girls and in fact there are more female graduates in the Arabian Peninsula than men. That itself shows that this is a cultural thing and not religious.

    10. The Common Humanist — on 15th May, 2009 at 2:10 pm  

      The clue Munir is in the phrase:

      ‘due to a particular INTERPRETATION of Islam’

      As we have all agreed previously many times on this site that there are many interpretations of Islam yet whenever there is a story such as this you forget that and rant that anyone criticising such actions is attacking islam or all muslims. Fascinating mental pathology you have there.

      Are you seriously claiming that the Taleban et al don’t use islam to justify their barbarity? Of course they do. It is how they have much of their power. The fact that it is a twisted and perverted form of islam is ABSOLUTELY key and the fact that you won’t face up to.

      And when you accuse other people of supporting the deaths and injuries to Afghan civilians to try to deflect attention from your support for the Taleban and jihadis in general.

    11. The Common Humanist — on 15th May, 2009 at 2:17 pm  

      And if it is nothing to do with a PARTICULAR interpretation of Islam then why are there attacks on school girls in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Indonesia by Islamist groups?

      Attacks that disgust 99.9% of muslims and the rest of people worldwide.

      Hmmmmm, what could be the connective tissue here?

    12. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 2:33 pm  

      Common Humanist
      “As we have all agreed previously many times on this site that there are many interpretations of Islam yet ”

      Haha - as if the assembled posters on PP, who whatever their other virtues are ignorant of Islam, get to decide and define what Islam is.

      “whenever there is a story such as this you forget that and rant that anyone criticising such actions is attacking islam or all muslims. Fascinating mental pathology you have there. ”

      No I am attacking your bringing Islam into this - there is no interpretation of Islam which allows this. Its like saying there are interpretations of Islam that allow eating pork

      I asked you to bring evidence from Islam that this act is acceptable -and you havent- so if there is no Islamic text that can be brought there is no way it could be an interpretation of Islam. It is cultural.

      “Are you seriously claiming that the Taleban et al don’t use islam to justify their barbarity? Of course they do. It is how they have much of their power. The fact that it is a twisted and perverted form of islam is ABSOLUTELY key and the fact that you won’t face up to. ”

      Why do I have to face up to it? Because Muslim haters like you will think thats Islam or will use it to bash Muslims/islam? You can as the good book says go forth and multiply.

      Do you have to face up to the fact that there are KKK members are white or there are Jewish extremists?

      Yes the Taliban do use Islam as their justification - but they also use Afghani culture and Pshtunwali and have stated this a number of times in the past. Most Muslims cant believe any religious Muslim could do such a thing since it so far outside the remit of what Islam teaches.

      “And if it is nothing to do with a PARTICULAR interpretation of Islam then why are there attacks on school girls in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Indonesia by Islamist groups? ”

      You are using cultural thuggery as an excuse to bash Islam

      This is like saying what Joseph Fritzl did was a particualt interpreattion of Christianity.

      “Attacks that disgust 99.9% of muslims and the rest of people worldwide.”

      Quite and 99.9% of Muslims dont accept being collectively blamed for everything wrong Muslims do nor having to condemn it.

    13. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 2:43 pm  

      Common humanist
      “kin medievalism! ”

      This comment is interesting because it shows how ignorant this humanist is of other cultures

      In the medieval period (and before) female scholars were a common part of Islamic culture. The great university of Kairoun in Fez Morroco the oldest continously operating university in the world was of course founded by a Muslim woman.

      It is rare to find an great Islamic scholar who didnt have a female teacher

      “A hundred years ago the orientalist Ignaz Goldziher showed that perhaps fifteen percent of medieval hadith scholars were women, teaching in the mosques and universally admired for their integrity. Colleges such as the Saqlatuniya Madrasa in Cairo were funded and staffed entirely by women. The most recent study of Muslim female academicians, by Ruth Roded, charts an extraordinary dilemma for the researcher:

      ‘If U.S. and European historians feel a need to reconstruct women’s history because women are invisible in the traditional sources, Islamic scholars are faced with a plethora of source material that has only begun to be studied. [ . . . ] In reading the biographies of thousands of Muslim women scholars, one is amazed at the evidence that contradicts the view of Muslim women as marginal, secluded, and restricted.’

      Stereotypes come under almost intolerable strain when Roded documents the fact that the proportion of female lecturers in many classical Islamic colleges was higher than in modern Western universities. A’isha, Mother of Believers, who taught hadith in the ur-mosque of Islam, is as always the indispensable paradigm: lively, intelligent, devout, and humbling to all subsequent memory. ”
      http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/gender.htm

      This is an article about women scholas in just one field of Islamic studies, hadith (wonder if Common Humanist can bring himself to open his mind and read it)

      http://www.islamfortoday.com/womenscholars.htm

      Here is an exert
      “The Islamic tradition of female hadith scholarship continued in the fifth and sixth centuries of hijra. Fatima bin al-Hasan ibn Ali ibn al-Daqqaq al-Qushayri, was celebrated not only for her piety and her mastery of calligraphy, but also for her knowledge of hadith and the quality of the isnads she knew.12 Even more distinguished was Karima al-Marwaziyya (d.463/1070), who was considered the best authority on the Sahih of al-Bukhari in her own time. Abu Dharr of Herat, one of the leading scholars of the period, attached such great importance to her authority that he advised his students to study the Sahih under no one else, because of the quality of her scholarship. She thus figures as a central point in the transmission of this seminal text of Islam.13 As a matter of fact, writes Godziher, ‘her name occurs with extraordinary frequency of the ijazas for narrating the text of this book.’14 Among her students were al-Khatib al-Baghdadi15 and al-Humaydi (428/1036-488/1095).16″

      Herat of course is in Afghanistan

      Also see “A secret History”
      http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F03E7DF123EF936A15751C0A9619C8B63

    14. The Common Humanist — on 15th May, 2009 at 3:08 pm  

      “”No I am attacking your bringing Islam into this - there is no interpretation of Islam which allows this. Its like saying there are interpretations of Islam that allow eating pork”"

      I think the Taleban brought Islam into this. You know very well that there are deeply misguided Muslims who do interpret Islam in this way but you won’t / can’t admit it.

      ““kin medievalism!” I was using it in the european colloquial sense. I tend not to use the phrase ‘medieval islam’ as I think it inaccurate, preferring instead ‘classical islam’ as a more accurate term and better then ‘golden age’ which I find abit too trite. Medieval, as you demonstrate, has unfortunate and, in both middle eastern and european contexts, inaccurate imagery of dirty peasents and monty python.

      Am glad you have discovered the wonders of history and the internet as a research tool. Am very well aware of the academic glories of Classical Islam but thanks for your concern - am touched.

      “”Yes the Taliban do use Islam as their justification”" PROGRESS!

      Religion is used to protect culture but religion is also part of culture.

      And no one, your protestations aside, is using this story to bash islam as a whole or muslims in general. Again, and you do this everytime, your equation of taleban actions such as this with islam as a whole speaks volumes.

      Now this conversation will have to be continued when my management meeting is done with. Despite our disagreements debating history with ypu munir is infinately preferable to the next two hours I will spend on the subject of quality management systems.

    15. qidniz — on 15th May, 2009 at 3:17 pm  

      Time and again I am reminded of John Deering’s classic cartoon (now gone viral, apparently).

      Emancipate women, and not only will these scumbags be destroyed, they know it too.

    16. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 3:32 pm  

      Common Humanist thank you for your decent reply

      One of the links I posted to was by Abdul Hakim Murad. Since you seem like an intelligent chap Id recommend reading some of his other stuff on the site

      http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/default.htm

      He’s probably (along with Gai eaton and Seyyed Hossein Nasr) the best writer on Islam in the English language.

      He’s an inveterate foe of the wahabbis and Talibanesque groups. However one of his brilliant contentions springs to mind in mentioning the Taleban which gives food for thought

      “Who were more anti-Western: the Taliban, or the Buddhas of Bamiyan?”

    17. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 3:39 pm  

      qid “Islam must be destroyed” niz tahnks for the links

      was an eminently sensible bit in the second link you posted to. No doubt with your deep love for the Afghan people you are truly offended.

      “Signs of a restless mind: I’m dithering between what I’d call “intolerant propaganda” and mean-but-harmless amusement. Case in point: the Letterman show last night. Senator John McCain was the marquee guest. His first words were “What’s Osama Bin Laden going to be for Halloween? Dead!” Huge laffs from audience. Throughout McCain’s interview, Afghanis were referred to as camel-sellers and camel-herders. “Get back to your camel sheds,” etc., again to huge guffaws from the audience each time.

      I know the US has focused on the Taliban government and militia as the enemy, with very good reason. I personally feel the Taliban’s combination of fundamentalism and hatred is evil in our time. But would I have quietly sat through an interview where someone said about, say, hostile African forces, “get back to your banana trees” or “get back to your cannibal pots”? I doubt it. I don’t know exactly why, but it made me feel very uncomfortable, the way I get when someone’s being bigoted or otherwise intolerant in a mixed group of people of which I’m part. . . .

      I guess maybe I do know why the Letterman show bothered me. A comic depiction of an unfamiliar culture (Afghanis as camel-loving madmen) is just another way of objectifying them. And objectifying them muddies the definition of them as human beings — granted, human beings capable of terrible things. Yet once they’re seen as less than human, it’s easier to visit atrocities on them under the justification of “revenge.” Which, if you’ve been paying attention, is exactly what the terrorists did to our society on September 11th. . . . I hope, oh, I hope, we don’t sink to that level. We have to be better than the terrorists, and treat them better than we expect in return, or what’s it all for? How can we say we’re better?

      (Farries: October 19, 2001 3:33 PM) “

    18. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 3:42 pm  

      Abdul Hakim Murads latest piece

      America as a Jihad State: Middle Eastern perceptions of modern American theopolitics

      http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/America-as-a-jihad-state.htm

      is tremendous

    19. munir — on 15th May, 2009 at 3:47 pm  

      Common Humanist
      “Religion is used to protect culture but religion is also part of culture.”

      Yes and No. Religion is used to protect culture by those ignorant of religion . Religion is part of culture but in every country in the world there are things that are purely cultural that have no link to religion. In the UK there are many festivals and special days (Valentines Day, April Fools Day) which have nothing to do with religion. The problem you appear to have is not understanding that that includes Muslim countries too.

    20. Katy Newton — on 15th May, 2009 at 9:02 pm  

      Islam makes education for women an obligation; you are clearly confusing it with Judaism.

      What the fuck?

    21. fug — on 16th May, 2009 at 12:33 am  

      deep sadness for the girls. deep sadness that these things become willy waver mimes for impotent organisations far away.

    22. imran khan — on 16th May, 2009 at 8:52 am  

      “And no one, your protestations aside, is using this story to bash islam as a whole or muslims in general.”

      Thats complete nonsense. This site is used regularly to bash Muslims and Muslims are often treated more harshly than others. Regularly Muslims are told what they can and cannot believe.

      How often are Chriatians asked to apologies for the actions of their brethren and how often are other religions?

      Oh yes they have articles but rarely the level of venom.

      Here the only acceptable Muslims are those predefined by certain think tanks and everyone else is an imminent threat to the entire western world.

      Your level of hysteria itself in trying to discuss this subject objectively is distorted.

      Would you question any other religion in this way?

      Everytime there is an article on Islam you are a frequent poster but for other religions you are more muted. An extremist was here from another faith for a governmental visit - where were your comments about that faith?

      An extremist christian was PM in this country but did you question that faith?

      The Taleban may be wrong on many issues but if a person here supports them it doesn’t mean they accept every bloody decision they make and Munir has made that clear. Your logic is like saying every christian in this country accepts every decision that Tony Blair made and I’d say that is nonsense.

      Its like saying every Jewish Person accepts every decision that say the Israeli PM makes in the name of a Jewish state but we know that isn;t true.

      Its like saying every Hindu accepts every decision made by the BJP but we know that isn’t true.

      At a more cruder level if it was said that every white person accepted every decision made by the BNP then we’d know that isn’t true.

      Munir may or may not support every decision made by the Taleban but surely its logical to ask the question first before making false accusations of someone which is a smear.

      Wouldn’t it have been better to ask the question first and take the debate from there rather than making prejudged accusations.

      Your approach is similar to the right wing press in that it always says Muslims this and Muslims that. Which they don’t do for any other faith.

      Most people don’t even know what a lot of these terms mean and in fact much is distorted.

      Most Jewish people in the UK support the state of Israel but does that mean they all support the views of Lieberman? Why in the Lieberman thread then did you not make similar statements to them?

      Its an unfair standard and generally apart froma select few Muslims here are treated like dirt and often have to defend their views. Its disgusting.

    23. fug — on 16th May, 2009 at 9:29 am  

      imran khan
      Because jews are white, and these brown sahibs think they become white by attacking muslim bogeys.

    24. imran khan — on 16th May, 2009 at 9:36 am  

      “Because jews are white, and these brown sahibs think they become white by attacking muslim bogeys.”

      Jews are not all white and like other faiths have a wide variety of followers.

      This isn’t about Jews its about why Muslims are being bashed so frequently here.

    25. imran khan — on 16th May, 2009 at 9:47 am  

      Its a bit like in the MP Expenses Scandal - when Shahid Malik’s expenses were made public there was an insistence that his religion was named. That wasn’t done for other MP’s.

      Its the same reaction here. If you are a secular or Sufi Muslim then you are welcome and if you are not then you must be a Taleban supporter.

      Its a nasty trend that is progressively getting worse.

      There is also a nasty double standard here in that negative Muslim stories from the subcontinent are regularly covered but other stories about other faiths are not.

      Did this story get any coverage here:

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8053060.stm

      Were supporters of India told they backed these decisions? No.

      The point is that people may support things in general terms but they don’t support every damn decision made by the movement they back but if you are Muslim then you are told you do.

    26. imran khan — on 16th May, 2009 at 10:03 am  

      Again often Muslims are told that what they say is untrue because all Muslims practise taqqia even though this is only practised by an extreme minority.

      However are other faiths accused of this? We’ve had a practising Christian PM not say the truth but is the entire faith labelled? No.

      Its a blatent double standard and no other religion is accused of this.

      Time and again people come here and bash Muslims but the same level playing field isn’t applied to other faiths.

    27. douglas clark — on 16th May, 2009 at 10:47 am  

      There is a terrible inevitability that an event like this is hijacked on threads like this.

      I’d just like to say I completely endorse the final paragraph of the op-ed.

      “All Muslims and non-Muslims should condemn this cowardly act on defenceless young girls who are struggling to continue their education and contribute to the development of their country in an increasingly hostile environment. We all support these students, and it is imperative that whoever has carried out this attack should be brought to justice as per the country’s laws.”

      I thought that was a very reasonable statement in the circumstances.

      I’d also have thought no-one here would accept that gas attacks on children was defensible. Whether it comes from nutcases that claim to share a religion with some commentators on here or not.

      Could we just all agree on that? Before eveyone draws lines in the sand?

      I do see munirs’ point that a whole religion shouldn’t be called to account for the actions of people who have usurped its’ teachings, but it can’t be too hard to condemn something this wrong, this fundamentally evil, without the almost autonomic whatabouttery that always occurs on threads like this.

    28. persephone — on 16th May, 2009 at 10:53 am  

      It’s not culture. It’s down to a common human failing: Fear.

      These groups/individuals are so scared of women and even, as in this case, young girls achieving equality that they have to subjugate them - whether at home or if they dare to educate themselves or to work.

      When I hear about such things it actually makes me think about how weak the perpetrators are

    29. imran khan — on 16th May, 2009 at 11:07 am  

      Douglas - I think people have condemned the attack but the point being made by Muslism is that they are then being attacked on a personal and religious level for the actions of a minority.

      This doesn’t happen to the same degree to other faiths - not that we are asking for other faiths to be attacked.

      Immediately this thread started and Munir was attacked.

      The situation in Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan and dare I say in areas of the Caucasus’s as well as parts of Africa, eastern europe, South Asia and south america is that religion is used to justify cultural practise and because people are largely uneducated then they accept what they are being told.

      To retain such control requires that sections of society remain ignorant.

    30. douglas clark — on 16th May, 2009 at 11:31 am  

      imran khan,

      It was an equal opportunities comment. It takes two to tango.

      We are heading through whatabouttery to some sort of cultural relativism. I don’t know if you recall the Dunblane massacre when some Scottish nutter shot up a school?

      I would have expected anyone commenting on that to have condemned him first before attempting to draw wider conclusions about the relative merits of the Scots -v- English, say. There are undoubtedly folk around that will use it to condemn all Muslims en masse, and they, of course, are wrong.

      My issue with this is that, rather than seeing it for the wrong it undoubtedly is, it becomes a sort of religio-political football. There is little enough hope for these kids as it is without this frankly broken record of ritual mutual condemnation.

    31. imran khan — on 16th May, 2009 at 1:07 pm  

      “My issue with this is that, rather than seeing it for the wrong it undoubtedly is, it becomes a sort of religio-political football. There is little enough hope for these kids as it is without this frankly broken record of ritual mutual condemnation.”

      Douglas - Fully agree. What I would say is that there is a need for Muslims to state it isn’t part of their religion and maybe just maybe if enough people say that then the Taleban will be forced to listen to their Muslim Brethren thereby giving hope to those children.

      The easiest way to make them change position is if their error is highlighted to them. The only way they’ll listen is in religious terms so if people keep saying its part of Islam its simply re-enforcing the Taleban viewpoint.

      By making a clear distinction then it leaves little room for them.

      Women in Pakistan are starting to use religious text to show how it is manipulated to deny rights to women. Simply bashing Islam isn’t the answer and thats the knee-jerk reaction we always get and its becoming more frequent here.

      If anyone thinks Islamic society and religion spread without active involvement of women they are seriously mistaken and many female scholars are widely acknowledged for their contributions.

      As I said even in the conservative Gulf region women are educated so the stance of the Taleban is incorrect. Getting them to realise that is the best way forward for giving immediate hope to those children.

    32. Niels C — on 16th May, 2009 at 7:17 pm  

      Imran asks :”How often are Chriatians asked to apologies for the actions of their brethren and how often are other religions?”
      Well a lot, one of the ideological reasons behind the secularism in many wester societies, is the accept that
      christianity has been used as a driving force behind slavery, imperialism, and forcing people to be christian, and as an accept of the fact that if religion literally is accepted as an universal moral value, it can do a lot of harm.
      The same kind of acknowledgment isn’t always to be found in the muslim world.
      Some of the comments to the Pope’s visit i Jordan illustrate this problem.
      “What the pope said (in 2006) about the Prophet Mohammed is untrue. Islam did not spread through the power of sword. It’s a religion of tolerance and faith,” Hussein said.
      “We want the apology to be clear just like the insults to Islam were clear. He should acknowledge his mistakes. That’s our position and the position of all Jordanians.”
      What the jordanians here tend to forget, thats it’s not more than 300 years ago, that muslim incarnated as the Osman empire tried for the last time to conquer western europe.It’s very difficult not to understand the osman empire as an empire that spread islam by the sword.

    33. douglas clark — on 16th May, 2009 at 8:20 pm  

      imran khan @ 31,

      I think you and I more or less agree on this. Now there’s a first!

      I’d be interested in your views on how women, within Islam, can regain the status that they seem to have had in its ‘golden age’, the points that you and munir have raised, but perhaps that is for another thread.

    34. Amrit — on 17th May, 2009 at 12:43 pm  

      munir:

      Can Common Humanist and Amrit explain why Hindus arent obliged to disaccosiated themselves from Hinduvata thugs ripping up pregnant women or Christians from the Lords Army or the Serbs or Jews from Jewish settlers etc etc ?

      I’m sorry, why exactly should I ‘explain why’?

      We all know you like to revel in your victim status, blah/munir, but don’t try making connections in what I say that aren’t there. You evidently don’t understand sarcasm, do you?

      Shame, because you make some good points occasionally.

      imran khan:

      This site is used regularly to bash Muslims and Muslims are often treated more harshly than others

      I’m sorry, but you are talking absolute shit. Sunny regularly defends Muslims against MSM attacks on them. There are plenty of people here who don’t have any problems with Islam per se, but we can and will object to the likes of the Taliban and Wahhabism. That’s because this site is mostly liberal in tone. There are no doubt some Muslimophobe posters, but I think you’ll find TCH is more munir-o-phobe. With good reason too - he’s shown himself to be dishonest on other threads.

      persephone @ 28 - exactly.

    35. Shamit — on 17th May, 2009 at 6:34 pm  

      School girls were poisoned because some people feel they do not deserve to be educated. That is a reprehensible act and must be condemned by all HUMANITY.

      And whether perpetrators commit these acts in the name of religion or culture or for whatsoever fucked up reason — these are heinous acts.

      Interestingly, all of us here agree that these acts are of a minority who are distorting Islam and its teachings to suit themselves.

      Imran, your post at 31 is excellent — and I find no reason why you or any other Muslim should be required to hang your head in shame for actions of these screwed up minorities or I have to do the same for the actions of likes of Narendra Modi.

      And while there have been passionate discussions here on many occasions, I am sure most of us who reqularly frequent this site do not have malice towards Muslims. There is a small minority of idiots no matter where we look and I think it falls on all of us those who like this site to make sure that those idiots do not dictate agenda.

      I think points like those made at 31 should drive the discussions on PP and not those idiots who continuously strive to derail us with their bigotry.

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