What if … In a BNP Britain
Hope not Hate have come up with a short guide to life in a BNP-ruled Britain:
*The BNP would kick out all those people who were not born in Britain. What if every other country in the world kicked out the Brits? A staggering 5.5 million people would be sent back here – far more than would leave our shores. This includes 800,000 from Spain, most of whom are pensioners.
*If non-white people were ordered out of Britain then the NHS would collapse overnight. 16% of nurses are from minority ethnic communities, as are 40% of new dentists and 58% of new doctors!
*The BNP would introduce apartheid into Britain. The BNP call for whites to be given first preference in housing, education and jobs. This is no different from apartheid South Africa, a racist regime which the BNP supported.
*Mixed-race relationships would be outlawed. The BNP constitution opposes any racial integration. Articles in BNP journals condemn mixed-race relationships as “mongrelising the white race”.
*The BNP’s answer to violent crime is to allow every household to have a gun. We kid you not. This barmy idea was in the BNP’s 2005 general election manifesto.
Just in case anyone forgets what they are like.
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Filed in: Race politics, The BNP
This is what they are saying they are like on the BBC
The logical outcome of BNP attitudes is the removal of every foreigner who works (clearly apparent from their objections to Eastern Europeans), which will also mean the expulsion of all foreign owned companies, many of whom may employ BNP supporters. I can only presume the typical BNP supporter does not lose any sleep over the inconsistencies of all this and presume it will not affect them at all.
BNP policies would Britain into a economic basketcase virtually overnight – a sort of North Korea with Beefeaters.
The BNP policy will only be feasible if they are propped up by other states as South Africa was.
If not then they will be dependant onother countries dealing with them.
Also can Britian defend itself adequetly without assistance. Would Britian be compelled to leave NATO?
This country is reliant upon America for some technology.
Also what about the Security Council Seat? How can a country that is exclusionist actually retain and influence world decisions if it wants to isolate itself.
Also would the commonwealth support trade with the UK if people had been expelled and would other countries such as Australia risk support in case ot jeapodised their own position.
Not just allow every household to own a gun but, if I am remembering the wording of the policy correctly, require! It all came in the same batch as enforced military service.
Every household in Switzerland is required to own a gun.
Safest country in the world.
Having been using the services of the NHS in the last few years as my body starts packing up I can confirm the figures for the health service.
The attidtude of BNP voters to health care professionals is strang. Acouple of years ago I was out in Daganham leafleting when I got talking to a BNP voter who was in his garden. He had all of the usual complaints but then greeted an Asian man coming out of surgery over the road. It seems that he was a highly respected local doctor and was regarded differently from even white Eastern Europeans.
The model for the UK with BNP members in Brussels will be similar to European countries that have fascists there already. Hightened racial tensions and a legitimising of discrimination. Without any doubt the one single factor that plays into their hands is the disgust felt by people over the expenses scandal with the BNP able to play the role of Limpios manos, clean hands the way that the fascists did in Italy. In fact we are very near to an Italian political meltdown.
Vote BNP for a pasty white Britain.
It has taken 40 or 50 years for the UK to get into this mess and under BNP guidance it wouldn’t be corrected “overnight”.
“The BNP would kick out all those people who were not born in Britain” – not true. The BNP would stop any further immigration, remove immigrants here illegally and offer generous cash payments to people who wish to return to their lands of ancestry. If “every other country in the world kicked out the Brits” that would be a problem for those countries because, unlike third world immigrants to the UK, our immigrants to other countries are an asset.
A very gradual increase in the training of native (white) British people would be a priority, and the NHS unreliant on foreigners, who could then return to their own lands where they must be sorely missed.
Mixed raced relationships would not be banned but neither would they be promoted as they are now. The undesirability of such relations would be discussed openly (as would homosexuality and lesbianism).
It’s true about gun ownership, but you forgot to mention that it is based upon the Swiss model and would only apply to people who have served in the military.
Hope not hate are commie idiots who wish to destroy Britain.
“”Every household in Switzerland is required to own a gun.
Safest country in the world”"
With an 900 year tradition of a citizenry militia.
And the UK…..??????
“”Hope not hate are commie idiots who wish to destroy Britain”"
Fucking barmpot.
The only good fascist is a dead one.
A BNP Govt = Civil War. And I will happily take up arms against people like you who stand for everything this country isn’t.
“”Mixed raced relationships would not be banned but neither would they be promoted as they are now”"
Good luck on controlling love. Even Stalin failed on that one.
That party election broadcast makes me sick. Its an awful propaganda piece and I hope people see it for what it is
If you read the BNP manifesto over the years, you will see that they have been backtracking their position on race to the point that they now concede that non-whites can be a part of Britain as long as they are not the majority.
Their hidden manual actually begs their supporters not to talk about Jews at all (because you know, people might think the BNP is supported by antisemites), and not to mention that they are racist or racialists (because you know, someone might think that the BNP has racist supporters).
This is how far we have come. When a racist party is afraid of admiting it is racist.
So where do mixed race people go? I can trace my white family back well over several centuries in England.
The BNP doesn’t seem to understand demographics. Take a look at the data on the number of mixed race people in this country (a huge number are under 16). We’re going to be the biggest ethnic minority group within 30 years.
Dave Bones
“Vote BNP for a pasty white Britain.”
I prefer “Vote BNP for a free holiday*”
*offer applies to non whites only
Isaac Brown
“Mixed raced relationships would not be banned but neither would they be promoted as they are now. The undesirability of such relations would be discussed openly (as would homosexuality and lesbianism).”
Why not discuss their undesirability openly now? If you strongly believe in this you should debate it. I suspect you realise what a feeble position it is and so would rather not.
What makes an immigrant an asset? What makes a British expat living in Spain more of an asset than an Indian doctor in the UK?
If Britain had a BNP government it should be nuked. Who wants Neo Nazi’s at the head of a nuclear power?
Rumbold,
Well done for posting this article. The ramifications need to be set out clearly and concisely (as your article has done) and ideally distributed as widely as possible.
Not only that, but consider the ramifications for Britain’s diplomatic alliance with the United States. I doubt the current American administration would look particularly favourably on the BNP’s implementation of their “policies”, especially with Barack in the Oval Office.
And the BNP are deranged, backward fascist idiots who wish to turn Britain into a 21st century version of Nazi Germany.
I trust you’re aware of what eventually happened to that country and its government at the time, “Isaac”.
I wonder what their stance on mixed-race relationships that don’t involve a white person is? Maybe they think they will give white people ideas.
Isaac Brown,
I’d have thought that the election of a BNP government would have meant that this country would haemorrhage talent, especially those that have marketable skills, such as doctors and nurses, IT professionals and the like. The ‘hate not hope’ agenda that you spin here is unlikely to be missed by people we can ill afford to lose. Why would anyone who isn’t a racist twat support that?
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
Nick “the thug” Griffin has dreams of being PM. That surprises me because Griffin is a clever manipulator — and he knows better. Its a pipe dream and its never going to happen and no one knows this better than Griffin.
But he has to sell this to his membership and our unwanted visitor Isaac “Stupid” Brown obviously falls for it. Because he is dumb enough to come here and write policy statements for the BNP.
Issac “Stupid” Brown and his party obviously has no clue on how an economy works especially in today’s intricately linked global economy.
Few quick questions that spring to mind:
1) Is the BNP aware of the share of the economy that is directly related to the commonwealth? In the event of a BNP government (almost impossible) Commonwealth would definitely kick britain out.
2) Is the BNP aware of the amount of wealth and expertise that would leave the country if the minorities left and how that would impact the economy?
3)Is the BNP aware that almost all multinational companies such as Microsoft,RIM, Google, CITIBANK, TCS, Bio-Tech, firms etc would leave Britain and take their jobs away along with the necessary knowledge and skills to survive in a knowledge based economy? Even BT might have to set up hq somewhere else.
Too much analysis required and some reading and understanding. But if you had those skills you would not be in the party and you would not be blatantly highlighting policies that would cripple Britain and ensure it loses all its prestige and respect.
The fact of the matter is that BNP is the least representative of any political party in the UK. Its definitely not representative of the best and the brightest and you lot remind me of a quote from West Wing ” .22 calibre brain in a complex Magnum 357 world”
Simplistic simpletons — I pity you. On and by the way, I am British and I am proud of it. And my country is never ever going to tolerate iliterate and incompetent goons like you in Government.
Tell that to your Boss Griffin.
“Every household in Switzerland is required to own a gun.
Safest country in the world.”
Wrong, they don’t even rank in the top ten.
A thread like this reminds me a bit of ”nazi porn” like Robert Harris’s novel ‘Fatherland’
(The novel is based on the premise of a world in which Nazi Germany was triumphant in World War II.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)
I too hope the BNP fail to make any progress in the coming Euro elections – but if they do, I don’t think it will be a catastrophy. Right wing parties like that will always have some presence in Europe as it is today.
It’s sad that they exist at all, but I don’t know if countering the BNP like this (in Barnsley the other day) is the way to go.
150 anti-fascists outside a BNP meeting in the town chanting”Nazi scum off our streets”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6268999.ece
I just read this article in Standpoint magazine called ”We Need to Talk about Immigration”
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/we-need-to-talk-about-immigration-may-09-dialogue-david-coleman-lionel-shriver
On another left wing (anti-fascist) website I used to be on, I brought up Professor of demographics David Coleman of Oxford University, and the campaign by a leftist anti-deportation (of aslyum seekers) group there, to have him sacked because of his opinions.
I said on that other site, that I thought actions like that from the left (in which they tried to drown out dissenting opinions) actually helped feed the reactionary right.
They totally ignored my trying to talk about that sort of thing, and prefered to carry on with their ”Unite Against Fascim” view of things, and get all worked up about the BNP and continue with that ”No Pasaran” mentality.
Immigration from majority non-white countries. Let’s be completely honest about this.
Ie. Forcibly “encourage” the repatriation of non-white people whether they wanted to go back or not. Including making life for them in the UK so unbearable that they’d eventually want to leave even if this wasn’t originally the case.
Further to Ravi’s comments in #17, I doubt that — for example — the Spanish government would agree, considering the extensive (and increasing) social problems Spain has been experiencing with its white British immigrant population, large numbers of whom have been refusing to integrate and assimilate with the rest of Spanish society.
That’s a convenient whitewash of the chaos that would rapidly ensue when non-white NHS doctors etc are forced to leave the UK and (particularly) when very large numbers of them (which, especially in the case of doctors, consist of highly-educated, highly-qualified, highly-paid professionals with internationally-transferable skills) leave this country of their own accord, not just “back to their countries of origin” but also to places like the United States where members of that profession are in demand and where they would easily be welcomed with open arms. The latter wouldn’t necessarily wait to be “pushed out” of the UK before taking matters into their own hands.
And that’s before we even begin to address the catastropic impact on the health of the remaining British population when the NHS quickly starts haemorraghing hundreds of thousands of staff. Not just in the sense of waiting-list bottlenecks that would result — I’m talking about the sheer number of deaths that would quickly ensue. The fatality rate would be catastrophic.
But I guess even the lives of hundreds of thousands — even millions — of white British citizens are relatively cheap and expendable if their deaths are deemed to achieve the BNP’s goals, eh.
It would also cause massive chaos (and opposition from) British-owned companies which contained large numbers of local and foreign non-white employees, especially if they were also multinationals engaged in extensive business interests in non-Western countries overseas. The same would also apply to the withdrawal of foreign companies which would be similarly impacted, especially American firms, and the severing of trade relations by huge numbers of companies based overseas. Not to mention the impact on the financial sector — what’s happened in the City in recent times (and its impact on the economy) would be nothing compared to what would result if the BNP went ahead with all this. It would be the worst, most complete, and most destructive economic meltdown in British history.
Exactly. Britain would actually (and literally) turn into the worst kind of “Third World” country itself — and ironically, in terms of its place in the world in relation to national GDP & revenue, the clock would actually be turned back to the country’s situation over 500 years ago during the pre-colonial era. For those who don’t know, this island really was the equivalent of a Third World nation in the global pecking order at that time.
But hey, if the BNP really are thick enough to be willing to pay that price in terms of blood, finance, trade and international diplomatic relations, purely in the interests of “racial purity”, then go ahead. It would be a Pyyrhic victory of the most stupid, self-destructive, suicidal kind. So much for the BNP’s assumptions about inherent race-based intellectual superiority.
Shamit,
Snap.
(I’d been writing my comment above while, unknown to me, you’d already posted yours. “Great minds thinking alike”, and all that….)
Shamit, Jai
I love you guys [Big sloppy hug]
Ok, thats enough manlove for now. Well put all round.
Jai
You know they would think we colluded and copied from some articles and books –
Man, all y’all shooting down Isaac make me SO PROUD to be a Pickler *wipes away tear*.
Isaac, follow the advice to the likes of your trolls that has been given so far. GO BACK TO YOUR OWN BLOG. We don’t want the likes of you here, and if you don’t like it (as is evident), then you can fuck off back to your home-page.
And don’t get so cocky either, you’ve got ‘Brown’ in your name, I bet you’re next.
i received a bnp ‘leaflet’at home telling me to vote for them..i was so effing hopping mad I ripped it up…twats
“offer generous cash payments to people who wish to return to their lands of ancestry” – how far back are you going on ancestry you twit…french, norman, saxon??? doh!
My Dad literally threatened to set the dogs onthem when they tried to leaflet my folks house!
Bless him.
We are a red family when push comes to shove.
Oh fantastic, so you’d welcome with open arms, the Slovakians who print your newsletter (‘British jobs for British workers’ doesn’t apply when it takes money out of cylcops pockets, amusingly it used to be printed by a bunch of Muslims in Essex) then ?
You obviously consider them enough of an asset to work for you, after all.
Re: what Sofia said… exactly.
Shamit, we all do the danger of crediting the BNP with far too much intelligence. THEY’RE NOT A REAL POLITICAL PARTY, just a bunch of racist opportunists who seem to be getting lucky.
I’d like the BNP to explain how they’re going to replace all the black Tube workers, the Filipino NHS nurses, the Asian doctors, lawyers…
Clearly, our great Saxon ‘overlords’ are so clever that they are currently in the process of training up hidden millions of white people to replace the gaping skills shortage that deporting foreigners will create. Because, y’know, the fucking idiots who bitch about how immigrants stole their council houses/jobs/cat’s mother are also going to bitch when they have to go to the hospital and there’s NOBODY THERE to salve their whining.
Plus side: the Daily Mail will probably die out, because Muslims and forruns will no longer be around for it to spray bile over. It will also lose its BME audience, thereby leading to a further decrease in circulation.
Right? Right? Don’t worry Isaac, we know you’re all strategic geniuses in the BNP. That’s why you set up a viable political party, not based around a single issue – oh wait…
TCH,
Thanks mate. Watch where you put those hands, now….
*********************
Excellent points by others on this thread too, especially Amrit. The BNP’s strategic thinking is sorely lacking, but I think we all know that they’re not exactly the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.
Following on from that…..
Yes, because God forbid that intrinsically inferior subhuman people like us would actually have the intellectual horsepower, political & business acumen, and grasp of social dynamics to be able to figure that out all by ourselves. Perish the thought. One might actually infer that the BNP’s entire worldview and “political proposition” regarding race is a very big house built of very flimsy cards and standing on very thin ice indeed.
Never mind. It just gives us yet more opportunities to go all Don Corleone on there asses whenever these illiterate cowardly sociopaths stick their heads above the parapet. Some people really do have ideas above their station in life and don’t know their place, I tell ya. Uppity fools.
There almost certainly wont ever be a “BNP Britain” but what will happen , as has already happened elsewhere facists have attracted support (such as France), is the mainstream parties will steal their clothes. This has already happened with Labour ministers attacking Muslims and will accelerate once the Tories get in. So the facists will lose the election but win the argument. Said minorities will be faced voting for parties who ignore or have contempt for them (since doing things for them would lead to accusations from the far right) and those who want to kill or expel them.
The “normal people voting BNP” pictured on the leaflet delivered by Royal Mail are all stock photos – mostly from the USA!
Those “BNP voters” do not exist!!
See this blog posting for details, and get the word out there!
It’s probable that the BNP violated the terms of use of the site (istockphoto.com) they got the photos from, because you can’t use their photos to “endorse any business, product, service, cause, association or other endeavour”.
One poster has emailed that website to notify them.
Also, as another poster (humorously) points out:
…the BNP has given BRITISH money to a FOREIGN company using FOREIGN photographers and FOREIGN models. Are there no UK models or photographers? Of course there are.
Shamit,
Simplistic simpletons — I pity you. On and by the way, I am British and I am proud of it. And my country is never ever going to tolerate iliterate and incompetent goons like you in Government.
Illiterate has two l’s you muppet
You don’t start a sentence with ‘and’ I could go on…
You don’t start a sentence with ‘and’…
Of course you can. Twenty five of the first 26 sentences in the KJV start with ‘and’. It was common usage and unremarkable until the eighteenth century when the vogue was to shoe-horn English into latin grammar.
Along with not splitting an infinitive, avoiding starting a sentence with a conjunction was, for a while, a shibboleth of petty-minded pedants but was never adhered to by writers of significance.
Fowler is a generally recognised authority on usage and opines that That it is a solecism to begin a sentence with ‘and’ is a faintly lingering superstition.
And my country is never ever going to tolerate iliterate and incompetent goons like you in Government.
Was that ironic or just thick?
Mike,
I’m not quite sure if the G&SP* isn’t actually more irritating that the BNP.
And I often start sentences with ‘and’. For the sake of the continuity of the thought…
It’s a blog you muppet.
(* Grammar and Spelling Police)
Late to the party again (stowed under at work), but a BNP Britain? Whenever they have managed to get one of their knuckle-draggers into an elected position the one certainty has been that they are immediately exposed as hopelessly out of their depth with anything more complicated than grunting.
To argue that the policies of the BNP, if put into practice, would be catastrophic is rather like arguing that to put a four-year old at the controls of a passenger flight would be unwise.
I’m with TCH on this, however. I’m a civilised, peace-loving guy with a deep commitment to rationalism, but in the (absurdly unlikely) event of the BNP becoming a significant force (and turning their beady eyes on my family)all bets would be off. I’d be getting atavistic on their ass.
Amrit
I second Jai — excellent points.
***************************
Mike —
My fault — I should do a spell check and all that before I post comments. Am I embarrassed – a bit. Bothered? NO.
When people are fixated on my spelling mistakes and not on the coherent arguments that I have made above then I guess puny intellects have no other option but to focus on GSP (courtesy: Douglas). Is that the best BNP can do?
*****************************
I have a problem with people who reduce humanity and the value of human beings to a particular skin colour and it offends me. And, I reiterate as many have highlighted above — BNP might cloak itself in patriotic linguistic nuances but PATRIOTS THEY ARE NOT.
And intellect – well please read the comments above. No point reiterating the obvious. Hope I have not used too many big words for the racist idiots.
Mike,
On and by the way, I am British and I am proud of it. And my country is never ever going to tolerate iliterate and incompetent goons like you in Government.
On
Typo.
And
Previously covered.
and by the way,
Missing initial comma.
my country. Mine too, pal. Speak for yourself.
is never ever Missing comma.
going to tolerate iliterate Spelling, obviously.
goons like you in Government. Inappropriate capitalisation of ‘government’.
I could go on.
God, I’m bored. Friday night and I have nothing better to do than pick apart a preening thicko.
What the BNP would do if it were in power is somewhat irrelevant. They wouldn’t be able to do anything. There would be massive migration of whites and non-whites from the UK to more liberal countries (who the fuck wants to be living under fascists?) – enough to bring Britain down to its knees.
What I find worthwhile is to imagine a scenario and the conditions in which the BNP gets to power given current and projected demographics (as Leon mentioned). That’s a tough one to solve.
Just pondering:
What will happen to house prices if a million houses suddenly come up for sale?
The answer to that would scare the vast majority of the population, including BNP members.
Don,
Just remind me never to argue with you about spelling and grammar
Wanna edit my shit?
I wonder what Fowler had to say about ’smileys’ or the vernacular, or folk writing their thoughts down in a hurry? Probably, not a lot.
It is frankly another ‘last refuge’ from an arguement one is losing to nit pick as our friend from the 1930s did. Although it is a tad unusual for that to be the first contribution.
I suppose, with that mind set, it is perfectly possible to destroy what I have written here by pointing out that it may indeed be 1930’s, or ever 1930s’.
Do I give a fuck?
No I don’t, and as long as there is thought behind any post, I don’t think anyone should worry too much about stuff like that either.
Do you remember when we had the invasion of the txtrs, when Sunny put up an article about the LHC being switched on and the Universe was about to end? Jesus, that was funny.
I just got my BNP leaflet in, though was shocked to discover that not one but THREE ‘racial foreigners’ I know got their’s first. Then I come here and find out that the photos on it aren’t even of proper British white people but foreign ones. Fucking political correctness gone mad if you ask me.
Remember the “good old days” of the NF 70s/80s? If (God forbid), it ever came to a rise in accepted racism and violence like then, I’m confident that it will escalate to riots and all manner of animosity. The police (already heavily infiltrated by the BNP), will turn a blind eye to white activity and over zealously target ethnics. Large sections of the media (already representing bigots), will continue to do their thing like a nazi printing press.
This is exactly what the BNP are looking forward to.
Overall though, it would most probably lead to communities recoiling into their own areas to feel safe. So we are looking at a severely segregated Britain. Britain will then lead the way for other European states to follow. So we will have “Fortress Whitey” where Morris Dancing is compulsory and school dinners consist of cheese and pickle sandwiches washed down with real ale…….
On the plus side, many white people will not support them and the number of Asians and Blacks has increased, so we will have more numbers to fight them this time than last. Let us hope they can eventually see sense or let them wallow in a “dark age” of their own making.
If they go that way, I hope the international community isolate them and I believe that non white countries should possess nuclear deterrents in case they (foolishly) decide to relive their empire glory days. Which they, ironically, probably couldn’t without all of the foreign help they had.
Watch the video in the link below to highlight just how ungrateful these twats are. Be warned it has a short clip of Bernard Manning expressing his wisdom at the start.
http://sikhism.com/videos/18
Munir beat me to it @ 16
The undesirability of such (mixed)relations would be discussed openly
Come on then Issac. Lets discuss this. I went out with a Sikh girl when I was 21. This was difficult for her in that if her parents found out she would be sent back to India. It wasn’t difficult for me, except dealing with her emotionally.
I went out with a black girl last year. She was born in Bristol as were both her parents. This wasn’t difficult for either of us as she was culturally as British as I was. Maybe more so in her cooking. She had the same Bristol accent everyone from Bristol has.
There were some distinctly desirable bonus outcomes in that I got a unique opportunity to visit the Jamaica tourists don’t see and I loved it. Jamaicans are very advanced about these things and have absolutely no problem with anyones skin colour or mixed relationships of any kind. They will try and chat your girlfriend up in front of you whatever colour she is!
I had no problem at all anywhere in Jamaica and that included the ghetto in Kingston where people were shooting at each other but not at me.
I would say that I am not as attracted to pasty white chicks as I am to darker skin types. Thats not racist. All the more for you Issac.
Issac?
Hello?
“Undesirability” away you go then..
Dalbir @50 … scary thoughts indeed. The scenario sounds like it could be a BBC TV series like ‘Survivors’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors
I don’t mean to scoff though. A BNP presence anywhere is bad news. Living in South London I never see any sign of the BNP, bar the occasional leaflet through the letterbox (which the guys leafleting do at some risk, as they could easily have a bunch of people taking strong exception to them doing that.)
I know that just a few miles further out, things are different, and I take note of what billerickydicky said about the Barking Dog pub next to Barking station being a BNP watering hole.
I was in Barking on a sunday morning last year, and I saw a white bloke say something to a west African woman who was in her traditional sunday finest clothes.
I never heard what he said, but she looked completely shocked and open mouthed. He walked away and while she still stood there looking shocked, he looked back and glared at her again.
He looked like a thug and I saw him walk up to the railway station … and sure enough, he had three or four mates waiting for him outside – wearing West Ham colours. It was a few hours befor a West Ham home game and they were off to the match.
Heaven forbid if people like that get more confident to stoll about like that spewing hatred.
Could I possibly suggest a thread? The BNP are such easy targets, being what they are. But they take some of their ideas (as does the Daily Mail and Express) from Migration Watch articles like this, which suggest that an unskilled 25 year old illigal immigrant who marries and has two children, will cost the taxpayer ”up to £1m per family”.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/pressreleases/pressreleases.asp
It’s the calculation that interests me. I’d like to see it debunked.
edited
Damon
Under these circumstances I fall back on a belief that underneath many humans is common decency and a sense of shame. From my recollection it was a single disgraceful attack on a Bengali school boy in the late 80s/early 90s that turned public opinion against race attacks in East London. I know today we are dealing with a much more complicated situation than then however.
However, when such ugliness rears its head, it will ultimately be defeated, even if this is a painful process. As long as men and women don’t give in to fear. I think there are enough brave people (of all races) here for us to be optimistic in the long run.
You said: Heaven forbid if people like that get more confident to stoll about like that spewing hatred.
This has happened before, no doubt we will have to learn lessons from the past.
That’s fine what you say there Dalbir … and it’s probably me being somewhat off topic here, as this thread is ”What if …in a BNP Britain”
As I said in an earlier post, I’m not so interested in worrying about the actual BNP (yet), but more interested in the left’s and anti-racist’s arguments against reactionary ideas and opinions.
I did a link to this long article in this month’s Standpoint magaizine which is a conversation between Professor David Coleman of Oxford University (and an advisor to Migration Watch) and the novelist Lionel Shriver.
It was this bit on page 8 from Shriver that I found most interesting:
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/we-need-to-talk-about-immigration-may-09-dialogue-david-coleman-lionel-shriver?page=0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C7
I wonder if Lionel Shriver’s view there is to be considered a reactionary one.
It’s certainly less ”progressive” and pluralist than some people on the left would see as the right way of thinking.
I drive around London all the time, but had a delivery to King Street Southall the other night (which is south of the main drag of ‘Broadway’ I know better.
It made me go ”wow” a bit. It was almost entirely Indian (Sikh) – with Somalians coming second as being most visable.
It’s definitely the more scruffy end of Southall, and I delivered to a Sikh run fish and chip shop (which is something you don’t see so much).
When I got home to south London, I asked my Sikh mate did he know King Street, and he laughed and said ”of course” – for that’s where the largest Sikh temple is.
He knew of the fish and chip shop too.
My point is, that I felt like a tourist in my own city, and it looks like such an interesting part of town that I think I’ll go back up there soon for a better look around.
But I understand that what I see as culturally interesting and welcome as another shining part of the culture and mix of England, other people (like those who drink in the ‘Barking Dog’ pub in Barking) might see exactly the same thing as I did, through totally different eyes.
I know that where Musa lives toward Eltham there are some serious BNP pubs they have had trouble with. Musa’s son was beaten up recently and the Police didn’t do anything.
I was pleased with Boris’s attitude at the recent State of London debate. He said he was taking on people in his own party from the “Kick em out” mindset. He got a mixed reaction in the room but I think most people were on his side. It wasn’t too long ago that Michael Howard was banking on frightening people about immigration to get elected. I don’t think David Cameron would see this as a vote winner.
Just a couple of further points in addition to my previous posts (which Shamit has echoed) and Dalbir’s own excellent predictions in #50:
- Military capability: Upon the election of a hostile racist Neo-Nazi party such as the BNP, there is a strong chance that the United States would withdraw its military support and protection from Britain, including nuclear weaponry and an abandonment of its various military bases currently in the country — particularly with Barack in the White House, as I said earlier. Britain’s military in its current form isn’t anywhere near as large or as strong as it used to be (especially its Navy, compared to the past); this would raise the question of exactly how any “re-armament” would be financed, considering the economic devastation that would have resulted by this time, along with the possibility of a pre-emptive military attack by other powers if a tangible potential threat is perceived.
Regarding any sabre-rattling towards non-white countries, it’s worth bearing in mind that — for example — India is now a nuclear-armed nation and (unlike the situation immediately before the colonial era) strong and united, and “noises” by a BNP government would accelerate the development of ICBMs with sufficient range to hit the UK, assuming that other countries already possessing the capability and hostile to this country at the time don’t provide India with the technology required and thereby accelerate the process. Furthermore, given the size of the Indian population and (again) the very different social situation compared to a few centuries ago, it’s worth bearing in mind the sheer number of potential recruits to the Indian military if there are any attempts to paint that part of the world’s map “pink/red” again.
- Famine: The severence of international trade links to the UK would heavily impact both the import and export of food, along with British organisations involved in the industry. Britain does not have the resources or the climate to sufficiently support the modern diet in its current form using purely domestic agriculture — people’s eating habits would have to be rolled back to mid-20th century standards at the very least and centuries at worst. Once the import of foreign agriculture was terminated and domestic food supplies started running out, there would therefore be mass food shortages and mass starvation, with the first large-scale famine on the British mainland for centuries. Again, more fights and civil disturbances for limited (and dwindling) resources and huge numbers of deaths.
Let’s really make the consequences clear: The global trade embargoes, sanctions, attempts at fascist social engineering, international isolation, collapse in infrastructure, and poverty which would result if the BNP took power and put its policies into practice would cause Britain to literally turn into the northern European equivalent of post-9/11 Afghanistan.
For all their inflammatory rhetoric and delusions of grandeur, given their relatively small numbers, lack of widespread support and the near-impossibility of them achieving power through democratic means, in reality it’s not necessarily Al-Muhajiroun that is the British version of the Taliban. It’s the BNP.
Maybe not see it as a vote winner now, but he wouldn’t hesitate to use it if he did see it that way. Cameron was very active in Howard’s campaign. Wasn’t ‘Are you thinking…’ Cameron’s baby?
I have to say that the turnout on this blog regarding “visitors” from the BNP is pretty pathetic. Shamit and I both challenged them to “bring on the big guns” on another recent thread, but is this really the best that they can do ?
So far, all we’re seeing are intellectual smurfs instead of the titans of “Master Race” manhood that the BNP claim to epitomise.
I challenge Nick Griffin himself to come here and face us directly, if he has the guts to do so. I bet he doesn’t.
#55
I think I know that chip shop. If it is the one I am thinking of, the food is yummy.
The BNP also want Ireland to rejoin the UK so we can add a war with Eire to the list of disasters they’d bring about.
I’m puzzled the the BNP claim to be standing up for Christians, yet will quite happily break up mixed marriages in order to deport the ‘racial foreigner’. Surely breaking up a marriage is against Christian beliefs on the sanctity of marriage.
Also what would happen to mixed race people under a BNP government. A mixed race friend of mine was telling me the other day that her white mother has been tracing the family tree and so far has traced her family in Scotland back to the sixteenth century. As her mother’s maiden name is English in origin it’s a fair bet to assume that her family have pretty much always been living in some part of the UK. In contrast her father came here from Nigeria in 1970. My friend only speaks English and has never even visited Nigeria and would be a fish out of water if sent ‘back’ there. So where do the BNP reckon my friend and those like her belong?
I also recall the programme 100% English in which Gary Bushell found out he had black African ancestry. Would the BNP like to send him ‘back’ as well? I do realise we’d all like to send Gary Bushell far, far away but no nation on earth would take the arrival of Bushell as anything less than a declaration of war so it’s either bring back conscription or tolerate him. Though I’m sure for most of us his racial impurity is the only thing about him that is not offensive.
More puzzling still is allowing their party to be led by someone who has been bankrupt twice. Why on earth should voters trust a man with the economy who has clearly demonstrated he cannot manage his own finances?
Finally why are they always blathering on about incentives to leave and voluntary repatriation when we already have such a system in place?
http://www.iomlondon.org/
*The BNP’s answer to violent crime is to allow every household to have a gun. We kid you not. This barmy idea was in the BNP’s 2005 general election manifesto.
This would mean we’d descend into the terrible depths of anarchy that like in other countries where this is already the law: Switzerland, for example.
From the Independent.
Jai @ 61,
I admire your challenge. Unfortunately, even if we were to get ‘oor Nick on here, the debate wouldn’t be in anyway improved.
Griffin has views that neither you nor I could be persuaded to. So, whats the point?
We have seen the intellectual desert that is his minions.
I take it as read that coming on to a site like Pickled Politics must take some chutzpah in BNP circles?
They have probably given it their best shot.
Though it is reminiscent of a premature ejaculation, so it is.
[Ahem! Not that that has ever happened to me! My friends told me about it, I'm sure. Moving quickly on, (oh shit!)],
Nick Griffin is a tit, and he couldn’t argue anything that would mean anything to you nor I.
That is the joke, I suppose. I have found a lot of friendship hereabouts, and I would never give that up for the monocultural nonsense of Mr Griffin.
It is reasonable to say that you and I have more in common with an octopus than we do with him. Apologies to octopuses everwhere. Try here:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/05/friday_cephalopod_we_have_lift.php
Just wanted to say that this is a great thread, which I am bookmarking for future use of the arguments contained within. Jai @ 59 and elsewhere – particularly good work IMHO!
Some more findings on the photos: on the leaflet with the construction workers pictured here, the photos are again from iStockPhoto here, and are of American construction workers in Oregon. (Found on Bloggerheads)
The Telegraph have also given some cover to this story.
There’s a hilarious quote from an unnamed BNP spokesman at the end of that article: “How on earth are we supposed to vet all our models?”
That doesn’t bode well for implementation of their key “policies”, does it!?
Sorry, got my links confused there!
Bloggerheads has some coverage of the image misuse, but the construction workers tip goes to comment #50 on the Newspeak posting.
Gsirrah @ 65,
Thanks for that. Yet another urban myth bites the dust…
What is unsurprisingly, I suppose, kept a dim and dark secret, is that countries with a high gun ownership also seem to have a high suicide rate through ballistic weapons…the bulk of deaths due to guns in the USA are self inflicted. Seems Switzerland follows the same model.
douglas clark @ 65: “What is unsurprisingly, I suppose, kept a dim and dark secret, is that countries with a high gun ownership also seem to have a high suicide rate through ballistic weapons”
I think that comment is both obvious and irrelevant. Suicidal people with access to guns are more likely to use them to kill themselves than people without easy access to guns. Unless you can show that it also corresponds to a much higher suicide rate overall, it means nothing.
“the bulk of deaths due to guns in the USA are self inflicted. Seems Switzerland follows the same model”
Would you rather the bulk of deaths were people killing others?
You could equally say that cities with underground railway systems have a high suicide rate from people throwing themselves under the trains. How do we address that issue? Does it warrant prohibition of underground railways?
Or you could equally say that a particular country in western europe has a high proportion of gun ownership and a low crime rate. And then say without any proof or reasoned argument whatsoever that one has to do with the other!
If you introduce guns into a crime ridden society, you are far more likely to get an United States then a Switzerland. If you want a Switzerland, you’d have to up the education, introduce national service from ages 18 – 52. You’d have to cull most of the population. Get rid of the drinking culture. Make the entire country richer possibly by creating massive tax havens. Have zero unemployment. Have a world class health service. Introduce a massive level of social control from the government over its citizens.
The Swiss don’t use their guns as a form of crime control, they use them as a standing army in case of invasion from larger neighbors. The crime levels are naturally low because of the reasons above.
Don’t know if any of you made it to Barking yesterday, I dropped all of the leaflets off at the church and then went back to Hackney for a bit of local paper posting.
Arrived home to find a letter from the Home Office finally reponding to my request for the release of the Cass Report into the death of Blair Peach at Southall thirty years ago.
It is from Alec Campbell MP the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State and says this.
I refer to your letter of the 5 April to both the Commissioner of The Metropolitan Police and the Home Secretary asking for the publication of the report compiled by Commander John Cass of the Complaints Investigation Bureau into the tragic death of Blair Peach during an Anti Nazi demonstration against a National Front election meeting in Southall on 23 April 1979. The Home Secretary has asked me to reply on her behalf.
I understand that with this year being the 30th anniversary of Mr Peach’s death you are keen for the report to be published in full. I sympathise with the views expressed in your letter, however the release of this report is a matter for the Metropolitan Police. I understand that a request to them last year under the Freedon of Information Act 2000 for the release of the report was rejected but that they are currently considering other requests under this Act for the release of the report.
I am copying this response to the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police for his information.
After thirty years I think we might finally be there! What happened last year was that an FoI request was rejected on the grounds that it might cause upset to the family. His two brothers have now sworn affidavits that they have no objections to the release so there is now no way that it can be kept a secret. Unless of course Stephenson just says no.
I will keep you all posted on developments.
Inders @ 71: Switzerland? Don’t mention the Nazi gold!!!
Are we allowed to say ‘Nazi’ in a post about the BNP ?
Nazi
Nazi
Nazi
Paul Lockett,
Obviously not.
But you seem to miss the pretty obvious point that the purpose of a gun is to be lethal, whether to yourself or to others.
I am merely amused that the NRA is more likely to terminate itself with extreme prejudice through self abuse rather than in a shoot out with scary criminals. Quite Darwinian, don’tcha think?
Sensible people can look forward to a time when every gun nut has killed themselves by their own hand.
Happy days!
I am grateful to Gsirrah for the link that gives a lie to the ‘Swiss model’, which has been a meme that has been floating around for an awful long time.
I wonder whether the BNP have helped to promulgate it?
Yes, I was there bill. Got there a bit late, but Sam Tarry handed us the leaflets and we went three stops down the District line from Barking, and delivered the leaflets…
But seriously, if people want to tackle the BNP then just being armchair warriors isn’t enough – you have to deliver leaflets people!
So how did it go, Sunny? What exactly did the day involve?
I wanted to come, but much to my chagrin awoke at about the time it was starting on account of going to the IKWRO seminar the night before and getting to bed v. late… aaargh.
Douglas Clark: “But you seem to miss the pretty obvious point that the purpose of a gun is to be lethal, whether to yourself or to others.”
What makes you think I’ve missed the point?
There are essentially three ways in which a gun can be used to kill:
1. To kill yourself.
2. To kill another person in self defence within the realms of reasonable force.
3. To kill another person other than in accordance with 2.
Where 1 is concerned, I don’t believe that having access to a gun makes suicide more likely; if someone is desperate enough to kill him/herself, they’ll find a way to do it.
I don’t believe that anyone could argue that using a weapon in accordance with 2 is in any way wrong.
If somebody is going to use a gun as per 3, then they generally aren’t going to be bothered whether or not having a gun is illegal.
“Sensible people can look forward to a time when every gun nut has killed themselves by their own hand. Happy days!”
So you find joy in the idea of people committing suicide? You sound like a very well rounded person. Of course, if that was really what you thought, surely you’d want as few gun controls as possible to maximise the number of people going down the Kurt Cobain route.
Talking of South London, I got my leaflet posted yesterday. And talking of Eltham, the BNP were in force there yesterday in the town square area on the High Street handing out leaflets. They tried to give one to my four year old son (!), (of mixed Indian/White parents). My husband commented what an angry, miserable bunch these guys looked.
I was amused to see on the back of the leaflet, where you sign up, and you tick your title (Mr, Ms, etc) that ‘Rev’ is given it’s own box to tick! Obviously expecting a lot of trade from that direction!
Heh Raven. They never appear happy do they? I suppose when hate is your primary emotion, that is all you can muster. Sad really.
What does our police think of this brilliant BNP policy? You know, allowing citizens to carry arms? Did the BNP actually consult the police about this?
Ravi Naik: “What does our police think of this brilliant BNP policy? You know, allowing citizens to carry arms? Did the BNP actually consult the police about this?”
I might be a bit of an old fashioned liberal, but I’ve always thought that in a democracy, that police should be the servants of the public and respect the laws laid down by parliament.
The day any political party feels obliged to clear it’s policies with the police before announcing them is the day our descent into a police state is complete.
Paul Lockett,
Goodness me! And here was me thinking I was the Liberal in this discussion. Y’know, I quite liked Westerns when I was a kid, but I never had any desire to live in one. I’m quite sure you have rationalised your position to your own satisfaction, taking down a punk or whatever, and walking off into the sunset, but you are simply setting up – hopefully only ever in your mind – an even more violent society than we have right now. The people with the least compunction to act peaceably are the ones most likely to use their new found liberty to cause havoc. Or are you one of those dreadful ‘right to carry’ advocates? A policy whose efficacy is at the very least, debateable.
Just sayin’
Don
Is that the best you could do to answer the questions posed by Jai, myself and others? Well then we don’t have to worry much about you and your idiotic friends persuading much of the electorate on anything.
I reiterate Jai’s kind offer for your bigger guns ie some people with brains larger than peanuts and who are evolved enough to understand nuances of arguments. It requires skills beyond being able to spell race.
Now, if you cannot do that, I would advise you to do some reading and gain some analytical skills. And then come for a debate — or are your big guns typical bullies — chicken shit when challenged.
Paul,
Consulting is not ‘clearing’. To put forward a policy which would radically change the gun laws of the country and make guns much more prevalent, without carrying out some serious research and consultation, is breathtakingly dim. And, yes, getting a police perspective would be basic common sense.
Douglas,
The correlation between gun ownership and overall suicide rates is iffy. While it is true that comparable nations with the highest gun ownership (US, Switzerland, Finland, France, Canada and Australia)tend also to have the highest overall suicide rates there are too many other factors to take into account. Belgium has about 1/3 the gun ownership of the US, but about twice as many suicides. New Zealand has a bit more than half the gun ownership of Australia but a slightly higher suicide rate. If there were a sharp correlation it would be being trumpeted from the hights
Intuitively it seems clear that making guns more readily available will result in more guns being obtained by those most entranced by the idea of guns – young males. Which is also the demographic most inclined to suicide. It seems reasonable to speculate that drunken musings upon suicide are more likely to end terminally if the melancholy youth in question is toying with a gun rather than considering a bottle of bleach. Firearm suicide is also more likely to be succesful than the alternatives.
And the demographic with most access to guns – farmers – also have a notoriously high suicide rate.
(I’m using the table from here, but I don’t vouch for the site.
http://everything2.com/title/Comparative%2520statistics%2520for%2520gun%2520ownership%252C%2520homicide%2520and%2520suicide%2520rates)
Shamit,
Are you sure you are talking to me? Because I have no idea what the hell you are on about.
Don — sorry my comments were not meant for you — it was for Mike…
I was supposed to thank you in that comment — but I visited Mike’s comments again and that was an angry response to that idiot.
Sorry again
No problem. It happens.
Don,
I am aware of the fact that levels of gun ownership and overall suicide rates is iffy. My point is merely that the chosen method of suicide when guns are readily available is to use it. There being, rarely, a second chance. In the US, last time I looked, and anthropomorphising a bit, guns annually kill more of their owners than they do other people. If we invented a widget, that when used would either protect you or kill you 50% of the time, we’d be laughed out of court.
douglas clark: “Goodness me! And here was me thinking I was the Liberal in this discussion.”
Is that meant to be sarcastic, or have you really found some way to convince yourself that your viewpoints are liberal?
“The people with the least compunction to act peaceably are the ones most likely to use their new found liberty to cause havoc.”
Which still glosses over the fact that the people with the least compunction to act peaceably are the ones most likely to possess a gun even though it is illegal.
“Or are you one of those dreadful ‘right to carry’ advocates?”
No, I’m one of those dreadful “equality before the law” advocates.
“A policy whose efficacy is at the very least, debateable.”
Well at least you are acknowledging that it is debatable. The issue I had with the initial piece was that it approached the BNP’s illiberal social-engineering policies as something that deserved to be addressed using statistics, rather than flatly dismissed as abhorrent, but the one policy which suggested some element of decentralising power from the state to the individual was flatly dismissed as barmy without any reasoning given.
“If we invented a widget, that when used would either protect you or kill you 50% of the time, we’d be laughed out of court.”
I would have thought it was obvious that there’s a world of difference between a widget that kills you involuntarily and a widget that you use to voluntarily kill yourself.
Nice one Sunny,
You must invite me to a picklers party some time soon.
I would have thought it was obvious that there’s a world of difference between a widget that kills you involuntarily and a widget that you use to voluntarily kill yourself.
Is it? Guns do both, as well as killing others both voluntarily and involuntarily. So not exactly a world of difference.
Don: “Is it? Guns do both, as well as killing others both voluntarily and involuntarily. So not exactly a world of difference.”
Yes, of course it is.
Cars can do both. If I get into a car, don’t wear a seatbelt and deliberately drive it into a wall, it might result in my deliberate self-inflicted death. On the other hand, I might get into a completely defective car which disintegrates at 70mph and kills me involuntarily.
I’d expect any assessment of the safety of a car to be based on how well it prevents the second type of death, not the first.
If you don’t agree with my sentiment that “there’s a world of difference between a widget that kills you involuntarily and a widget that you use to voluntarily kill yourself,” then a model of car in which 10 people have committed suicide would have to be treated as less safe than a model of car in which 5 people have died as a result of the brakes failing.
Paul Lockett,
You are the one that wants to discuss it statistically. In broad statistical terms that is the outcome in the USA. The gun is more likely to kill its’ owner than it is to kill someone else. It also has the potential to be used against people who the owner is frightened of but who have not actually committed a crime. Should that person be dead simply because your Libertarian sensibilities believe that everyone should have a right to gun ownership? What level of proof would the courts accept for justifiable homicide?
“He looked a bit odd to me, your honour.”
“Case dismissed, next!”
Have you looked at the parts of the world where carrying a gun is second nature, sometimes even by kids as young as nine or ten? These are failed, messed up societies.
You are advocating, in the vernacular, tooling up everyone. I am saying that a criminal who is found with a gun should be locked up and the key thrown away. Which of these two policies is likely to decrease gun crime?
I know what I think.
douglas clark: “The gun is more likely to kill its’ owner than it is to kill someone else.”
Can you really not see the difference between something you use to deliberately kill yourself and something that kills you when you don’t want it to?
“Should that person be dead simply because your Libertarian sensibilities believe that everyone should have a right to gun ownership?”
Thank you for trying to talk on my behalf, but I don’t believe that everyone should have a right to gun ownership; I believe that everyone should have an equal right to gun ownership. I can accept gun prohibition so long as everyone is prohibited from owning a gun, which includes having no exceptions for people just because they work for the government.
“What level of proof would the courts accept for justifiable homicide?”
Under British law, you are entitled to use a reasonable amount of force in self-defence. There is a whole body of case law you can research if you want a more thorough answer to your question.
“You are advocating, in the vernacular, tooling up everyone.”
Again, I’m not.
“I am saying that a criminal who is found with a gun should be locked up and the key thrown away. Which of these two policies is likely to decrease gun crime?”
The two policies aren’t mutually exclusive.
You mean you accept gun prohibition as long as the police does not own guns? I understand that hardcore libertarians distrust the government, which is their main motivation for wanting to own guns, but your assertion cannot be taken seriously.
Ravi Naik: “You mean you accept gun prohibition as long as the police does not own guns?”
Yes, absolutely.
“your assertion cannot be taken seriously.”
If the idea that the law should apply equally to all is so incomprehensible to you that you can’t take it seriously, then you are clearly of such an illiberal mindset that nothing I say is going to make any difference.
Dave S,
Thank you very much, appreciated.
*************
Douglas,
re: #66
You’re probably right. Apart from the fact that Griffin would receive a very hostile reception here on PP and would either be rapidly ambushed by everyone or banned by Sunny etc upon exhibiting his “real” views, the BNP are currently trying to disingenously portray themselves as “reasonable” (for cynical & politically-expedient reasons we’re all aware of), so there are limits to the extent to which any of them with half a brain cell would be willing to directly engage with us, especially if it risks exposing their bigotry & ignorance for what it really is and in any way compromises their agenda.
People like you and (particularly) I aren’t Griffin’s target audience; his aim is to appeal to members of the white majority who will either be susceptible to his arguments or already agree with them. Racists like him are certainly unlikely to be interested in hearing the responses of non-white individuals/groups (unless it affects their agenda), as many of them essentially view us as subhuman or even practically inhuman.
All the rest of us can do is highlight the huge flaws in their various arguments and policies whenever they are made public.
Again, I don’t think I can make it any clearer than this: In terms of the potential cultural, economic and military impact on British society & culture if the BNP achieve power and implement their ideas on this country’s civilian population, a vote for the BNP is like a vote for the Taliban.
It is not my “illiberal mindset” that keeps me from taking you seriously. It is the fact that you make no sense.
It is against the law for citizens to restrain people, to put them inside a car, and place them inside a cell against their will. It is called assault and kidnapping when a normal citizen does it.
Should that be applied to policemen when doing their job, as well?
This one has gone off target quicker than usual. Interesting couple of articles in the London Evening Standard today. One by Sam Leith and a double page spread by Andrew Gilligan on the BNP in general and the events of last Sunday in Barking where Sunny was.
Although it quite clear that the press has finally taken on board the threat of the BNP the amaount of negative coverage is quite incredible.
I also hear fro a usually reliable source that Barnbrook is about to be suspended fron the GLA unless he can back up his claims of the three supposed murders of white people by ethnic minorities in Barking recently. The police have basically called him a liar. It’s going to be an interesting few weeks.
Agreed.
Just to steer the “guns” tangent back on course, let’s clarify the “right to bear arms” in the American context, which — in my view — has the rationale spot-on, at least in terms of the intentions of the US Constitution.
The primary reasons involve enabling the individual to protect himself/herself (and others, as required) in the event of an ineffectual/non-existent law enforcement authority, and (more pertinently) as a form of defence against abuses of power by a hypothetical tyrannical government, both as individuals and via the formation of civilian militias.
On a secondary level, it also obviously enables self-defence in the event of civil disturbances, foreign invasions etc.
But…..in the case of the BNP, let’s not forget that they constitute exactly the kind of brutal, tyrannical government that the aforementioned weapons are supposed to enable protection against. And also, that the right to bear arms undoubtedly would not be extended to non-white people (at least those who were still left in the UK at the time); I’d place money on the probability of white people presumed/known to be sympathetic to non-whites also being systematically stripped of various rights, including their ability to own firearms.
Billericaydickey,
I’ve noticed that you’ve mentioned Essex quite a few times in the past in relation to the BNP, especially places like Barking, Dagenham etc.
As far as you know, is there any particular reason why this part of the country seems to be particularly susceptible to the “attractions” of the BNP ? Something about the local culture, the socio-economic environment, or the history of the English inhabitants of the areas concerned ?
It’s a serious question.
Ravi Naik :”It is against the law for citizens to restrain people, to put them inside a car, and place them inside a cell against their will. It is called assault and kidnapping when a normal citizen does it.”
It is perfectly legal for a citizen to carry out an arrest. It is illegal for a citizen to carry hold somebody else against their will if they don’t have sufficient reason to arrest them.
“Should that be applied to policemen when doing their job, as well?”
Yes!
Ronald Reagan got shot while being protected by the US Secret Service with more arms and ammunitions than most armies can have. What does that tell you about owning guns equate to better security?
***********************************
Can we go back to thrashing BNP please?
On Essex – I would also like to know why this is so prevalent there than anywhere else in London?
Correct – but the police does have more powers than the average citizens, in order to do their job. I am pretty sure that Switzerland works that way, just check.
Tell me something, do you believe that MPs should have more power than the average citizen, and be allowed to dictate laws… or judges should have the power to decide on law matters and having the last say on a dispute resolution? Does the fact that these people have more power than the average citizen bother you?
I am asking this, because you seem to have a problem with our model of governance, like the three branches of power.
Ravi Naik: “but the police does have more powers than the average citizens”
They do, but that is a relatively recent phenomenon and not what was intended at the outset. Just because the world works a certain way now doesn’t make it right.
“I am pretty sure that Switzerland works that way, just check.”
What on Earth has Switzerland got to do with this?
“Tell me something, do you believe that MPs should have more power than the average citizen, and be allowed to dictate laws… or judges should have the power to decide on law matters and having the last say on a dispute resolution?”
I believe that a randomly chosen jury should have the final say on the application of law. That is also one of the fundamental principles on which the British legal system was built.
“I am asking this, because you seem to have a problem with our model of governance, like the three branches of power.”
Our model of governance is built on a fundamental presumption of equality before the law, something you view as undesirable.
And just because it seems to work in theory, does not mean you can put it in practice. What society actually follows what you are defending?
inders“If you want a Switzerland, you’d have to up the education, introduce national service from ages 18 – 52. You’d have to cull most of the population. Get rid of the drinking culture. Make the entire country richer possibly by creating massive tax havens. Have zero unemployment. Have a world class health service. Introduce a massive level of social control from the government over its citizens.”
But would all those things really be worth the pain of cutting taxes?
Jai,
There are several reasons for the large number of BNP councillors in outer East London. One is that Barking and Dagenham the latter particularly were essentially white company towns built for the Ford workers.
When Ford closed the main employer went to be replaced with low paid jobs. The are was also the cheapest place in London to buy property with thousand of former council properties available.
It was possible eight or ten years ago to buy a three bed gouse with front and back gardens for under a hundred grand. This led to buy to let landlords buying up property which was then rented out to the council who put in the highest priority homeless who were very often Eastern Europeans or successful asylum seekers.
Also African families would pool resources to buy and within a very short time the whole ethnic mix of the area changed more rapidly than anywhere else in the country . Much of the Inner East London BNP support moved out to Essex including some hard core organisers.
Areas like Bethnal Green, Hoxton and Shoreditch which were far right areas since the days of Mosely and before have seen those tight family groups decamp further east.
All is not doom and gloom though. The anti BNP campaign in London is going great guns and it now looks unlikely that they will get a seat which means that next year when all of the council seats that they took in 2006 come up for re-election we will be able to throw all or recourses at them from all over the South East.
Sixteen of their fifty councillors are within a few square miles and have a very poor record of attending meetings. Plus I hear Barnbrook is about to be suspended from the London Assembly for bringing it into disrepute by falsely claiming that immigrants have carried out three murders in the area this year which the police deny.
Their campaign has been a catalogue of disasters so far and, apart from the BBC, the media has been against them. While their core vote is holding up the campaigns against them have prevented them from picking up voters fed up with the main parties.
It would be ironic if on the 6th July they managed to get one in Europe as it is the anniversary of the storming of the Normandy beaches to liberate Europe.
I hope this has been of some use but the situation is very complicated. Certainly as I have pointed out before the race industry has been a major player in the scenario with white people, not without some justification, seeing themselves as being discriminated against.
Harman’s new Equalities Bill, large parts of which were written by big time Louis Farrakhan supporter Simon Wooley, will make discrimination against whites legal. I sometimes think when I,m pounding the pavements stuffing letter boxes whose side these people are on.
Golly gosh, some of you appear to think the BNP is a real threat!?
Anyway, all i can add is that no one can ‘repatriate’ anyone anywhere if they are a citizen. if they were a naturalised citizen, they can revoke citizenship. but that’s about it. a lot of scaremongering.
anway, current immigration policy does favour countries that are more ‘well-off’ and certainly this might be seen as ‘racist’ by some because countries like Canada, US, and Australia are included – compared to countries like…India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc. All countries follow immigration policies along these lines – that is what nation-states do. Look out for their members and they are certainly not keen to let people in from poor countries. This is nationalism at its core – it is exclusive by definition.
Thought i’d point that out because some of you seem to not be aware/be a bit idealistic about your country’s (and others!) state of play. Nation-states are exclusive entities. The BNP is much more stupid than most governments – because they state their racism and discrimination openly – unlike other governments.
Thought i’d point that out – not to support or excuse the BNP obviously – but the world of movement between countries, is a discriminatory one. In case most of you all didn’t know…(some of you do seem do display incredible naivete in this department. Perhaps because your british passports, despite your ‘race’ – opens doors?Perhaps because your parents turned up here back in the ‘mass’ immigration days, which no longer exist. Perhaps someone needs to tell the BNP that? after all, in my experience, very few brits actually know anything about ‘immigration policy’ into Britain, because they aren’t subject to immigration control? a lot of hysteria for nothing, if you ask me. )
However, the discrimination is not really ‘racist’ as such. if you are a citizen of a country that is poor, and majority non-white, you will find its not too difficult ‘moving’ around the world and going through the #first=world’ immigration procedures – but what you need to show is money, land, etc. If you have those, you are fine. So that’s really what it’s all about. Money talks. Now – whether the BNP are really as race-obsessed as they think they are – remains to be seen. Money talks! and they do not seem to be particularly fond of people who are the same ‘race’ as they are – but of a different ‘class’. No one seems to point this out/be aware of it- but there you go. The BNP are much like anyone else – they are not particularly different. They are using the race card because they think that matters.
Billericaydickey,
Thank you very much for taking the time out to explain matters in such detail in #110. Looks like the BNP have managed to spread their toxic influence in Essex to quite a large extent, although given the number of people I’ve met from the county (particularly those older than 40) with a fairly distasteful attitude towards non-white people, it does make me wonder if they were already racists before the BNP came along or if the BNP exploited their susceptibility & grievances by playing to their worst prejudices and base instincts. Not everyone from Essex has any history with Ford, for example, unless the connections (via extended family or social networks) with the company run deeper and are more extensive than I think.
Bit of a chicken & egg situation.
Essex is a problem, though, even outside Dagenham, Barking etc.
Sonia,
I know! I held an Indian passport not until very long ago. My grand parents though fondly remember the times when the could just flash their Indian passports at Heathrow, and get in!
That applies for poor white countries as well – like Eastern European countries and Russia.
That applies for poor white countries as well – like Eastern European countries and Russia.
Not really, it is exponentially easier for a Russia to immigrate to the US than say an Indian!
Has it always been that way? What about Polish?
Yep Chicago is full of Polish plumbers!
I am ashamed if not disgusted of the fact that the company I work for (Royal Mail) and even the mail centre I work at delivered any BNP leaflets. I was told that the posties could refuse to post them and I do not know how many did. But I did see them in the mail centre ready for delivery. I suppose the company does not care as long as it makes money.
why a white country would kick out Brits just because they kicked out some nonwhite scum?
and in South Africa there is currently a racist anti white regime that gives Africans preferential treatment.
overall any white country will be a better country without nonwhites.
Not after it’s subsequently been on the receiving end of global trade sanctions, an international boycott of goods/services, and a withdrawal of massive amounts of foreign financial and business investment (the US, China and India are currently the global leaders in the latter). Not to mention the number of British people who wil die after the NHS collapses due to departure of the sheer number of Asian doctors and other non-white medical professionals that currently work in Britain.
“Britain will be better after the non-whites were forcibly removed” ? Not quite. Think North Korea.
And that’s even before the United States and any allies take military action in response to a Neo-Nazi British government possessing nuclear weapons.
Welcome to the world of the globalised 21st century, with an African-American President in the White House, the largest group in the United States projected to soon become Hispanics, and with the fastest-growing economies being China, India and Brazil, all of which are strategic business partners with the United States.
SDF
Jai is too nice trying to explain things to you which anyway are far beyond your reach.
You know in Britain we have good if not free but affordable university education. Oh sorry my bad — I forgot you do not have the necessary thinking powers to go to University.
So why don’t you go and fuck yourself because next time I see a BNP troll here I would lose it — the problem is it might be wasted as you don’t have the necessary powers of comprehension to understand my tirade. So do yourself a favour and fuck off NOW
BNP = bunch of idiots. The way things are going, maybe they will be voted in. Then again, maybe not
But the thing is, non-whites don’t recognise the importance of voting. If they actually voted, the BNP would never come into power. I know my parents don’t vote but I’m going to make sure they do next time round
On a side note, if the BNP came into power:
a) British economy would collapse. No industry, the NHS would collapse (because there are more non-white and non British docs and nurses there). Restaurants and businesses would collapse. Foreign investment would stop. Because no foreign government will aid Britain if Britain kicks out their people.
b) Trade would stop.
c) A Nazi like regime would begin to ‘voluntarily’ force out the people and racism would be rife.
d) The educated people the BNP kick out of Britain will help the nations they go back to, flourish.
Imagine a whole load of educated doctors, nurses, teachers, businessmen (all with lots of money of course), going back to their countries (India, Pakistan, China, Japan, Hong Kong, Somalia, Nigeria, Iraq, Afghanistan, take your pick). They take the cash they earned and set up businesses in their ancestral/homeland. And the economy flourishes, whereas in Britain, the economy will collapse
I was born in Britain, to Pakistani Muslim parents, so if the BNP came into power, I would most certainly hae to leave, and I wouldn’t want to live in a completely racist society anyway.
Everyone thinks immigrants cause problems, but why do immigrants come anyway? Could it have something to do with the fact that they have no other option? Take Iraqi immigrants and assylum seekers. If there hadn’t been a war there(for no other reason but oil) why would Iraqis need to come to Britain in the first place? No-one seems to look at the root causes of immigration and no one realises that the government, in its support of this war, has caused such a huge immigration problem.
So the BNP would be bad for UK but good for foreigners
It would be bad for everyone, including BNP supporters.
The BNP want an all white Britain, just imagine how despised white Brits would become abroad if they ever started implementing their racist policies. Also have you read the BNP’s economic beliefs, utter contradictory bullshit that would bankrupt the UK in days.
The BNP believe in “white pride”, but why then do most white brits yearn for a tan.
BNP = Brainless Nazi Party.
NF = Nauseating Fairies.
” Cjcjc says — on 15th May, 2009 at 6:46 am
Every household in Switzerland is required to own a gun.
Safest country in the world.” <– thats the biggest lie. Switzerland does not have such a law(its very very rare that a citizen owns a gun). I am sure that is some nasty guy settled in Switzerland and who thinks people are stupid enough to believe his lies.
I would not like another civil war – it would totally destroy Britain, unless, everyone over-throws the BNP if they DO come to power, then that will be alright. xD
I also think that the 'BNP' are infiltrating the United Kingdom, because they are obviously Nazi's and want to 'win' the long, forgotten war between them and the UK.
If they do come to power they will kick my parents out because their nationality is not British, I was born here, they weren't, I, being twelve will have no choice other than to leave with my parents and start a new life, new education and that would be, well, horrific.
I hope they never win, I am also white, but I will deeply miss the black and Asians.
Not fresh in the morning? I have often noticed that some are fond of leaving a little gap between the head board of their bed and the wall. The reason maybe that it made sweeping and vacuuming the area between bed and wall a little easier, like a space where the broom or vacuum hose could reach.
|||What if every other country in the world kicked out the Brits?|||
why would any country wish to kick out the brits? just for balance? stupid idea.
as non-british person I assure you I would prefer British people in my country than some muslim scam. a lot of people share my opinion. It's ridiculous to comnpare muslims and immigrants form Britain, just ridiculous if you want my sincere opinion