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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Shock poll finds Muslims patriotic and homophobic


    by Sunny
    8th May, 2009 at 9:48 am    

    The Independent reports:

    A startlingly candid snapshot of the views and beliefs of Muslims living in Britain today has been uncovered by the first-ever study of Islamic interfaith relations across the world. The reseach, a collaboration between Gallup and the Coexist Foundation, challenges the view that the country’s 2.4 million Muslims are largely intolerant of the British way of life. British Muslims were found to identify more strongly with the UK than the rest of the population, and have a much higher regard for the country’s institutions.

    However, the poll also found that the vast majority of Muslims have extremely conservative views on moral issues such as homosexuality and the death penalty, which differ dramatically from those held by the rest of the UK population.

    I find the stat on homophobia a bit suspect, because I know quite a few Muslims who are very tolerant of homosexuality, and a few gay Muslims too. I wonder if they applied the question to themselves rather than others.


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    Filed in: British Identity,Culture






    43 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. pickles

      New blog post: Shock poll finds Muslims patriotic and homophobic http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/4486




    1. platinum786 — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:03 am  

      It depends on the question asked. I read in the guardian i think the question asked was “Do you think homosexuality is morally correct”. As a Muslim I will tell you and anyone else who asks the answer is No.

      Does that make me homophobic?

      Homophobia (from Greek homós: one and the same; phóbos: fear, phobia) is an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality, homosexuals

      I’m not scared of homosexuals. I don’t discriminate against homosexuals. I don’t go out of my way to avoid homosexuals. I don’t hate homosexuals.

      I don’t think the use of cocaine recreationally is morally correct, does that mean I hate people who use it etc?

      As a community which does still hang onto religion as a moral compass, homosexuality is seen to be morally incorrect by Muslims and I agree with that, but that doesn’t make me a homophobe.

      I wonder what it meant by Muslims are intolerant of the British way of life. I think for the majority of people if you ask them if they approve of the social aspects of life, such as the drinking, drugs, sex outside of marraige etc, even womens fashion, again from a religious and therefore moral perspective, they won’t approve of it, but to me the term intolerant applies they somehow stop others from doing what they want to do.

      when was the last time a Muslim stopped you doing something he/she may not do herself?

    2. faisal — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:10 am  

      The question was “Do you find homosexuality morally acceptable”. To which none of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable. By comparison, 35% of French Muslims found homosexual acts to be acceptable.

      Another difference is attitudes towards pornography. French and German Muslims more likely than British Muslims to believe that watching or reading pornography was morally acceptable.

    3. soru — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:14 am  

      In short, the prototypical UK Muslim is a Daily Mail reader.

    4. platinum786 — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:18 am  

      Yeah, that was the question Faisal.

      I was interested to see the French/German results.

      The German ones where not such a shock, a lot of German Muslims are Turks, they’ve been quite liberalised by the attaturkists and the almost anti religion stance of Turkey.

      The French result was a suprise. I’m by no means an expert on Muslim democraphics, but I think a lot of French Muslims are N.African immigrants. Do you think their answers may have been influenced by the somewhat forced secularism of France, ie they didn’t as immigrants want to tell a frenchman what he didn’t want to here.

      I think in the UK as Muslims we’ve got it great, a pretty free society, in comparison to the rest of the world, and we’re capable of expressing our opinions more freely. However of ocurse that is only a suggestion not an explanation of the results.

      The pornography question was interesting. They should have asked also if anyone had ever watched pornography, or would be suprised by a young man watching pornography.

      It’s pretty widely accepted that “boys will be boys”.

    5. faisal — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:22 am  

      In short, the prototypical UK Muslim is a Daily Mail reader.

      I think that’s perfectly correct.

    6. saeed — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:25 am  

      A reat comments thread over at HP Sauce on this…full of bile…

    7. Jai — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:28 am  

      Aside from the fact that some people may obviously wish to push a certain agenda against Muslims, I don’t see why the “smoking gun” of common attitudes towards homosexuality should elicit such a “shock horror” reaction — compared to the other major world religions, the Abrahamic faiths are a little stricter in their stance on homosexuality. It’s not something unique to Islam (yet again).

      You may well find similar results if observant Christians were polled, particularly in the US. And look at all the flack Miss California is currently having to take.

      Hell, if the majority of British people 50 years ago (or even 25 years ago) were asked for their stance on the matter, I bet you would have got similar results in that case too.

      *shrug*

    8. blah — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:30 am  

      Its not as if a large majority of people in the UK find homosexuality acceptable . And dont a majority of Britons support capital punishment ?
      Had you done a survey of Hindus or Sikhs I dont think the results would have been
      radically different.

      The comparison with French and German Muslims more liberal views is interesting. Why then is it that there is even more hatred against Muslims in those places than in the UK? It goes to show that Islamophobes will hate Muslims regardless of what they believe.

      Even though this survey shows Muslims identify more strongly with the UK than non Muslims, have more respect for British institutions and are far more tolerant than others in accepting other religions it will still be used by islamophobes to whip up hatred.

    9. faisal — on 8th May, 2009 at 10:32 am  

      plats

      I think the demarcation of the attitudes along national boundaries cannot ignore the fact that British Muslims are mostly Southasian, German Muslims Turkish and French Muslims North African, by provenance.

      South Asian Muslims are generally much more socially conversative than the other groups. Although Somalian Muslims in the East End can give even Bangladeshis a run for their money on the socially conversative front.

      Homosexuality has always been regarded quite liberally by North African Muslims, as European gay men from André Gide to Joe Orton happily discovered. They found the access to gay action in North African lands quite liberating at a time when homosexuality was a punishable offence in the UK (up to the 50s).

      And yes Turkish Muslims are more “Europeanised” than British Muslims are “Anglfied”. Is that a consequence of Ataturk’s legacy, I don’t know but I also doubt it.

    10. blah — on 8th May, 2009 at 11:23 am  

      This is the Daily Heil’s take on the survey:

      Just one in 10 British Muslims feel integrated into society, study claims

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1178794/Just-10-British-Muslims-feel-integrated-society-study-claims.html

    11. Ravi Naik — on 8th May, 2009 at 12:31 pm  

      I think the demarcation of the attitudes along national boundaries cannot ignore the fact that British Muslims are mostly Southasian, German Muslims Turkish and French Muslims North African, by provenance.

      That’s part of the equation. The other part, is the fact that France - as well as Portugal, Spain and Italy - are not multicultural countries - they follow the melting-pot model. You are either French or you are an alien. Hence, a black Muslim can say “I am French” without anyone blinking… not sure how many Asian or Black would define themselves as English. I also get a feeling that Muslim Americans are far more integrated than British Muslims. Coincidence?

      Having said that… I know a couple from the Congo who lived many years in France, and then a number of years here. They said they hated France - that French people are racist when they perceive someone is a foreigner, whereas in London, they feel very much at home. I guess, they will never feel “English”, but at least, they do not feel as complete outsiders.

    12. Shuggy — on 8th May, 2009 at 1:17 pm  

      I assume you were joking in the title but the identification by Muslims with the country is remarkably high. I think this has implications for your view of ‘Britishness’, Sunny. It’s a strong allegience that has developed - not despite the absence of a codification of ‘what it means to be British’ but perhaps because of it? It is possible precisely because you are not required to get ‘enthused’ about it.

      The levels of confidence registered in relation to the military, the judiciary and the electoral process (p. 23) are also very high. A majority in all cases and with regards to the legal and electoral system, significantly higher than the rest of the population.

    13. fugstar — on 8th May, 2009 at 1:21 pm  

      surveys are such snap shotty, snotty pieces of politically constructed white power.

      you’d thing you brown sahebs might grasp that.

    14. faisal — on 8th May, 2009 at 2:09 pm  

      This comment by Dan in the HP comments thread is good:

      I wonder how much of this cultural difference in attitude within the Muslim community, as suggested by David T, is a legacy of colonialism.

      Anti-homosexual legislation was enforced in South Asia and Bahrain, Burma, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei by the British, under the Indian Penal Code. And these laws, along with some pretty arcane property laws, have either not been repealed (as in the case of India) or have been co-opted and strengthened.

      I don’t know how homosexuality was dealt with by the French Empire, but it does seem that the penalties for homosexual are not as severe in North Africa as they are in South Asia. Mostly, it seems there is a fine and at worst a relatively short prison sentence, whereas in South Asia sentences range from 10 years to execution.

      In Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim nation, homosexuality is legal - perhaps the influence of the liberal-minded Dutch?!

      I hope people realise just how colonialism is significant in rendering attitudes to homosexuality by different sets of Muslims of ex-colonies.

    15. The Common Humanist — on 8th May, 2009 at 2:25 pm  

      Faisal:

      Regarding Indonesia, I used to work with an Indonesian Engineer, he always said that Indonesia has a 4000+ year old culture and Islam had strengthened and enriched but not defined the resulting cultural mix. Hence the attitude to homosexuality

      Platinum: I appreciate yr honesty over gays but question: Do you consider gay muslims to be muslims at all?

      One of the most devout Muslims I know is also a raging queen. When other muslims point out the anti gay stance of the Koran he responds: ‘You really want to question how Allah made me, really?’

      Interesting no?

    16. platinum786 — on 8th May, 2009 at 2:43 pm  

      Are gay Muslims, Muslim. Of course they are. Do they commit sin, I think they do.

      Did god make them gay, possibly yes. I don’t mean to be nasty when i say this next comment, but a lot of peadophiles have strong sexual desires towards children, did god make them peadophiles?

      Could it be a mental thing? A lot of men, could find a 14-15 year old girl sexually attractive, but how many men can really find a 7 year old sexually attractive?

      I don’t think human sexuality is black and white. how many gay people have been hetrosexual at some time, how many people would be willing to be involved in a bisexual relationship?

      In Islam sex outside of marraige is forbidden, yet the same god made us sexually active, and made sex essential to procreation. Perhaps homosexuality is somewhat natural, but is everything natural always ok?

    17. Ravi Naik — on 8th May, 2009 at 2:58 pm  

      In Islam sex outside of marraige is forbidden, yet the same god made us sexually active, and made sex essential to procreation. Perhaps homosexuality is somewhat natural, but is everything natural always ok?

      You do realise why paedophilia is considered wrong, right? Because among other things, children are not sexually and emotionally matured, and therefore such relations are considered predatory and abusive.

      On the other hand, homosexuality in the context of consenting adults is just as normal as heterosexual behaviour. There is no rational argument against it. What is abhorrent is expecting gay men and women to marry with people of the opposite sex when there is no sexual attraction to them.

    18. damon — on 8th May, 2009 at 3:25 pm  

      I’ve been propositioned for (gay) sex by local men in Quetta Pakistan, Jakarta Indonesia, and Agadir and Rabat in Morocco.
      The first time in Pakistan was in 1983 when I was quite young, but the last three have been in more recent years.
      The poor young fellow I met in Jakarta one late night some years ago, (after I’d tuned him down) told me that he was a college student, and was known as gay on campus, and was lonely and got a hard time from fellow students.
      Poor guy. I did chat to him for a good while after, in the 4am bus shelter.
      It had been too hot to sleep, so I’d gone out for a walk in the quiet streets.

      Btw, it was in Quetta 26 years ago that I first ever saw young men walking around holding hands with each other like that.
      A cultural norm and not sexual you might say, but it was in this situation that some bloke came up to me and whispered something suggestive in my ear.
      I was a lone tourist from England. Perhaps a novelty.

    19. The Common Humanist — on 8th May, 2009 at 4:35 pm  

      “Could it be a mental thing? A lot of men, could find a 14-15 year old girl sexually attractive, but how many men can really find a 7 year old sexually attractive?”

      Are we including Saudi men in the answer to the last bit??? Ok, cheap shot but still what is it with Saudis and marrying children?

      “”In Islam sex outside of marriage is forbidden (1), yet the same god made us sexually active, and made sex essential to procreation. Perhaps homosexuality is somewhat natural, but is everything natural always ok? (2) “”

      1. Day wives? But seriously, alot of muslims do engage in pre marital sex, well, they do at Uni anyway.

      2. No but between consenting adults love is love.

      I worry that one of the first things many people, muslims in this context, seem to automatically equate, in some form, homosexuality and paedophillia. Why? They are unrelated. It is like saying all hetero men are also paedo’s or rapists - which we can all agree is patently silly. And, given the, ahem, ‘bridal practises’ of certain prophets and how these have been carried on into the modern era, I think a debate about what is paedophillia is shaky ground indeed for certain types of muslims.

    20. platinum786 — on 8th May, 2009 at 5:07 pm  

      This is what i meant by “I’m not trying to be nasty”. A lot of Muslims when trying to talk about homosexuality will bring up peadophillia to attack homosexuals as perverts.

      That is NOT what i’m trying to do. What my point is that sexuality is quite complex. We accept a hetrosexual relationship as “normal”. Yet we have taboos and laws against other types of relationships.

      Take incest for example. Some people (a tiny minority) are sexually attracted towards parents/siblings etc. What makes them do that? I think it is a mental thing, but i don’t understand it.

      Peadophilla is criminal (I am aware of that), YET, the people who are peadophiles find they are sexually attracted to children. What makes them that way?

      50 years ago, homosexuality was illegal. It is argueably unnatural for two people of the same gender to have sex, as the byproduct of sex is procreation. Today we accept it as normal, but 50 years ago we didn’t.

      What I don’t understand entirely, and what I think we all don’t fully understand is what makes you gay, what makes you want to do your sister, what makes you straight and what makes you a peadophile? What causes the different versions of sexuality?

      I think some of our senses of morality are a bit pointless. For example, in some societies, marrying a blood relative, is acceptable, yet today in Britain it’s a taboo. Why is a 16 year old allowed to have sex but not a 15 year old? Why is gay marraige such a problem, for people who claim to have no issues with homosexuality?

      Some of us, including me, draw our moral guidelines from religion and religious texts, for those of you who don’t, i wonder why you draw the line where you do?

      I’m not great with words, a lot of my stuff goes on a bit, but let me be clear, i’m not saying gay men are the same as men who have sex with babies, not at all, what I’m asking is, what defines societies sexual morality?

      Why is it deemed “wrong” for me to think homosexuality is immoral, yet I’m allowed to think sex with a 15 and a half year old girl is wrong and so is sleeping with your mother?

      For the record smart arses, i’m not a peado, nor do i want to bed a member of my family, i’m simply asking questions.

    21. Roger — on 8th May, 2009 at 5:09 pm  

      “Shock poll finds Muslims patriotic and homophobic”

      Why aren’t the B.N.P. trying to recruit them?

    22. Ala — on 8th May, 2009 at 5:38 pm  

      Platinum represents the most common attitude I have found amongst generally liberal Muslims.

      Sunny, one of the few Muslim blogs you link to, Indigo Jo, links to a blog called “eye on gay Muslims”, where their idea of tolerance towards gays, is not driving them out with sticks but offering them help and understanding for their ‘problem’. If so many Muslims are tolerant, what are the chances of such a progressive blog being two clicks away from such bigotry?

      Anyway, I completely expect Muslims to be homophobic as this is just a common religious view. I’d like to see similar surveys conducted for Christians, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs, but that will never happen. Muslims are the only ones targeted for their bigotry, and that’s just bigoted.

    23. blah — on 8th May, 2009 at 6:11 pm  

      A nice reply from Dr Shermsn Jackson

      “Is there a place for “Gay Muslims”?”

      http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2009/05/06/is-there-a-place-for-gay-muslims-dr-sherman-abdal-hakim-jackson/

    24. Roger — on 8th May, 2009 at 6:52 pm  

      I wonder how far the different results may reflect the way the questions were put in the different languages concerned. That’s aside from the questions themselves. If I were asked “Do you think homosexuality is morally correct?”- a strange way to put the question, I think- then I would answer “No.”. Not because I think homosexuality is morally incorrect but because I think it is morally neutral. However there are many things I think morally incorrect that are not illegal and that I wouldn’t want to be made illegal. The problem with islam and homosexuality is that if you interpret the quran literally- as many muslims do- then it looks as if homosexual behaviour is morally incorrect and ought to be punished by torturing people who engage in it to death.

      “Anyway, I completely expect Muslims to be homophobic as this is just a common religious view.”
      Not necessarily, Ala: some pagans have homosexual gods. The problem with islam as against judaism and christianity is that the holy books of judaism and christianity are supposed to be god’s word as interpreted by men whereas the quran is supposed to be god’s word in its last and definitive form. That leaves muslims with a lot less room for evasion and debate.

    25. Leon — on 8th May, 2009 at 7:43 pm  

      I’d like to see similar surveys conducted for Christians, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs

      Me too, it’d give this poll some proper context.

    26. blah — on 8th May, 2009 at 7:56 pm  

      “The problem with islam as against judaism and christianity is that the holy books of judaism and christianity are supposed to be god’s word as interpreted by men whereas the quran is supposed to be god’s word in its last and definitive form. That leaves muslims with a lot less room for evasion and debate.”

      On this issue there is no debate: sodomy is a grave sin in Islam (including it should be said a man with his wife). This doesnt mean that practicisng gays should be treated with any less respect than others- but its a fact that what they are doing is sinful.

      There is a difference between being against homosexual acts and being against homosexuals
      No one should condone the latter but seems like people are being forced into accepting the former and not being allowed to disagree with it

      Suggesting anyone who disagrees with homosexuality is homophobic is like suggesting anyone who disagrees with Islam is Islamophobic.

    27. blah — on 8th May, 2009 at 8:03 pm  

      Roger
      “The problem with islam and homosexuality is that if you interpret the quran literally- as many muslims do- then it looks as if homosexual behaviour is morally incorrect and ought to be punished by torturing people who engage in it to death.”

      No you are lying- nowhere in the Quran does it say homosexuals should be tortured (its forbidden to torture anyone) to death. There isnt even a set punishment for homosexuality as there is for adultery or theft.

    28. blah — on 8th May, 2009 at 8:07 pm  

      damon and the Common Humanist seem to be unable to distinguish between wrong actions that some Muslims do (such as gay or pre-marital sex) and what Islam teaches on these matters. They think the former is the latter

    29. douglas clark — on 8th May, 2009 at 11:08 pm  

      Leon,

      I’d like to see similar surveys conducted for Christians, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs

      Add atheists. I don’t think atheism, which you and I share, is any innoculation.

      This is a straightforward prejudice.

      One I am ambivelent about on the ‘hush, don’t be so silly’ level, but unambivalent on the ‘death to poofs’ idea.

      I love QI.

    30. Roger — on 9th May, 2009 at 1:34 am  

      Aren’t 4:16 and a sura about Lot generally interpreted as meaning people who engage in homosexual acts should be stoned to death, Blah? The quran certainly prescribes whipping or stoning- which are tortures- the deliberate infliction of pain as a punishment- on some “criminals”. Incidentally, sodomy- anal intercourse- certainly isn’t the only- or even most common form of homosexual activity.
      In general, it is both more courteous and more effective not to say people you disagree with are lying. People are much more often mistaken than deliberately saying something they know is not true.

    31. Galloise Blonde — on 9th May, 2009 at 10:15 am  

      Link to the full report. I haven’t read it yet, but my colleague tells me that attitudes to ‘honour’ crimes are changing in positive directions.

    32. douglas clark — on 9th May, 2009 at 10:52 am  

      This might seem ridiculous to some of you that seem to think that women are somehow lesser than men. But I’d suggest that anyone, anyone sensible that is, signs up for Galloise Blonde’s campaign.

      The front page is here, I think:

      http://www.ikwro.org.uk/

      Read some of it and weep. I don’t understand any Muslim woman finding that acceptable.

      No.

      Really.

    33. damon — on 9th May, 2009 at 12:02 pm  

      It’s just as well that most people in Britain are not that religious. If I followed my parents Catholicism properly I’d have been be a miserable sinner all my life.

      Their ideas on masturbation are similar to the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani of Iraq.
      http://www.sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=5#alphaM

      On another leftist website I used to be on, anyone with anything less than complete exceptence of every aspect of homosexuality (and their idea of gay equality politics) was denounced as a bigoted homophobe.

      There is nothing at all wrong with homosexuality in my opinion - so I disagree with blah there, but on the other hand, I do think it’s understandable that many people are not so liberal about it.

      I think Simon Fanshawe has it about right.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=471t6QiV_qI&feature=related
      I tried to talk about this on that other ”right on” website, but it was met with stoney (politically correct) silence.

    34. Galloise Blonde — on 9th May, 2009 at 12:43 pm  

      Damon, I don’t really see as a lot difference between what Simon Fanshawe’s saying about how raunch culture is affecting gay men and what Ariel Levy‘s saying about how raunch culture affects women.

    35. Galloise Blonde — on 9th May, 2009 at 12:44 pm  

      Damon, I don’t really see as a lot difference between what Simon Fanshawe’s saying about how raunch culture affects gay men and what Ariel Levy‘s saying about how raunch culture affects women.

    36. douglas clark — on 9th May, 2009 at 12:50 pm  

      damon,

      In a secular sense, I see you as a miserable sinner!

      Get with the programme, why don’t you!

      http://www.ikwro.org.uk/

    37. damon — on 9th May, 2009 at 1:13 pm  

      Galloise Blonde: that’s the first I’ve heard of Ariel Levy. Sounds interesting, I’ll have to read some reviews. But I don’t think I disagree with there being ”lipstick feminists” around. I think the ‘suicide girl’ look is rather fetching.

      Douglas Clark, I’m not sure what you mean. Have I gone off topic? Yes, that IKWRO campaign looks like it’s something to support.

    38. blah — on 9th May, 2009 at 1:38 pm  

      Roger
      “Aren’t 4:16 and a sura about Lot generally interpreted as meaning people who engage in homosexual acts should be stoned to death, Blah? ”

      Ah yes another Quranic scholar in our midst. We are so honoured. Admittedly you dont know Quranic Arabic or the numerous other sciences needed to interpret but who cares? The punishment for homosexuality is “tazier” that is to say discretionary.

    39. blah — on 9th May, 2009 at 1:46 pm  

      Roger
      “Aren’t 4:16 and a sura about Lot generally interpreted as meaning people who engage in homosexual acts should be stoned to death, Blah? ”

      Ah yes another Quranic scholar in our midst. We are so honoured. Admittedly you dont know Quranic Arabic or the numerous other sciences needed to interpret but who cares? The punishment for homosexuality is “tazier” that is to say discretionary and even then as with adultery it requires witnesses.

      It is true that some Muslims are intolerant of homosexuals but that is wrong - and the attitude is a distorted one since dealing in interest is an even greater sin yet these Muslims dont have that vehemence against people who deal in interest. A look at the physical attackers of homosexuals in this country reveals they are almost all non-Muslims.

      Id recommend you watch the video I posted above
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HisIwWhyU34
      and read this

      Attitude towards homosexuals
      http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=8448&CATE=42

    40. Galloise Blonde — on 9th May, 2009 at 2:28 pm  

      Damon: the point is, there are both heterosexual and homosexual takes of raunch culture. It’s irrelevent what you, personally, find appealing. If you want to argue that the superficiality and objectification Fanshawe finds on the gay scene can form a justification for prejudice against gays, when the same things are abundently manifested in heterosexual life through the mainstreaming of porn culture, I’d think you’d have to be aware of potential double standards — unless you would also agree that raunch culture forms a justification for prejudice against women, particularly young, sexually active women. (Which of course, for many people, it does.)

      Right, that’s me offski. Have a great weekend.

    41. damon — on 9th May, 2009 at 3:18 pm  

      As Britain is largely secular, and getting more liberal about homosexuality all the time, is there any justifacation in the Ann Clwyd (Labour MP) idea that continual arranged marriages from the Indian sub-continent to British spouces, has the tendency to put the brakes on (what people on the left see as) progressive enlightened views becoming more common.

      Will it be the case that in inner city schools like my niece goes to, that the Muslim kids will be the most ‘homophobic’ in the school?

      Joking with my niece now, asking her, mimicking some silly Catherine Tate comedy sketch where ‘Lauren’ asks: ”are you gay Sir?” and when he says no, asks ”are you homophobic Sir?” the flustered teacher says ”no” to that too.

      When I asked my (white) school aged niece that question, the answer was the same kind of ”No” that I’d have got if I’d asked her if she was racist (and goes to a Lambeth school).
      Of course she’s not racist she’d insist. And to many of her contempories, predjudice against homosexuality is on a par. They are the same.
      (And I’m proud as her uncle, that she thinks like that).

    42. Roger — on 9th May, 2009 at 8:01 pm  

      Come on now, blah, can you read or understand anything but quranic arabic? I’ve read the quran in translation, which means I know more about it than most muslims, and I assumed that its claim to be easily understood was true. Obviously I was mistaken there too. The fact remains that the quran condemns homosexuality without justification and that many muslims who are at least as knowledgeable as you are about the numerous other sciences needed to interpret it can and do interpret the quran as encouraging or ordering them to torture homosexuals to death.

      “A look at the physical attackers of homosexuals in this country reveals they are almost all non-Muslims.”
      Very probably. A look at the people in this country reveals they are almost all non-Muslims. the fact remains that prejudice against homosexual behaviour is an integral part of islam.

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