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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Govt unveils ‘banned list’ of nasty people


    by Sunny on 5th May, 2009 at 8:05 pm    

    Today the home office published a list of 16 people it had banned from entering the UK.

    Abdullah Qadri Al Ahdal
    Yunis Al Astal
    Stephen Donald Black
    Wadgy Abd El Hamied Mohamed Ghoneim
    Eric Gliebe
    Mike Guzovsky
    Safwat Hijazi
    Nasr Javed
    Abdul Ali Musa
    Fred Waldron Phelps Snr and Shirley Phelps-Roper
    Samir Al Quntar
    Artur Ryno and Pavel Skachevsky
    Michael Alan Weiner (also known as Michael Savage)

    You can read more about them at the Guardian. A few points occur to me:

    1) why aren’t al-Qaradawi and Louis Farrakhan on the list, and the reasons for banning stated? Is this is an incomplete list or only covers certain criteria? Maybe they’re on the hidden list.

    2) I bloody hate banned lists. If someone is actually inciting hatred and violence - then I would be fine with banning them or jailing. I’m not sure how Phelps’s: ‘god hates fags’ is inciting violence though.

    3) Half the people on this list are Muslim. I’d be interested in finding out who invited them in the first place. And furthermore, anyone who claims this government is soft-touch on terrorists should perhaps re-think their stance.



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    19 Comments below   |   Add your own

    1. Leon — on 5th May, 2009 at 8:17 pm  

      I’m not sure how Phelps’s: ‘god hates fags’ is inciting violence though.

      Because some religious nut will see this as an order to go kill some gay people?

    2. Cath Elliott — on 5th May, 2009 at 8:30 pm  

      Sunny, the list is only of those people who have been banned since last October, so I’m guessing the real list of all those who have been banned contains a few (actually probably lots) more names than just this 16.

    3. Sunny — on 5th May, 2009 at 8:34 pm  

      Aha! thanks for pointing that our Cath.

      Leon - well, religious nuts may try and kill homosexuals regardless, which would then mean we should also ban the Quran, Bible and whatever else… not sure how Phelps saying it makes it more inciting.

    4. Don — on 5th May, 2009 at 8:50 pm  

      Phelps and his crew show up at funerals and gloat that the deceased is burning in hell. I’d call that incitement to violence. They are lawyers, by and large, and make it their practice to provoke violence by metaphorically pissing on the newly dead in front of their friends and family, and then suing.

    5. qidniz — on 5th May, 2009 at 8:51 pm  

      not sure how Phelps saying it makes it more inciting.

      It probably doesn’t. It looks like Phelps just wandered into the cross-hairs.

      That is, the list is most likely demand-driven. The government will not be monitoring all the crazies of the world for their ban-worthiness, so no one actually gets banned until and unless someone, with some cause, engages the official channels appropriately with a proposal or request.

    6. Sunny — on 5th May, 2009 at 8:56 pm  

      Oh I forgot - the list almost certainly doesn’t include Narendra Modi - to ensure that publishing his name alongside these nutjobs won’t provoke an international incident.

    7. Ravi Naik — on 5th May, 2009 at 9:19 pm  

      I bloody hate banned lists. If someone is actually inciting hatred and violence

      There is Martha Stewart in the list, who went to jail for inside trading… so inciting hatred and violence is not their only criteria.

      Farrakan has been banned several times to enter the UK. I am sure he will continue to be so.

      The Phelps family… well, here is a list of offenses.

    8. fug — on 5th May, 2009 at 10:07 pm  

      i think british ministers supportive of the govt’s policies wrt the colonial present (palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq) should be denied entry to other countries.

      they are enemies of peace.

    9. Roger — on 6th May, 2009 at 1:51 am  

      “I’m not sure how Phelps’s: ‘god hates fags’ is inciting violence though.”

      Not inciting violence but provoking violence against them- the old “behaviour liable to provoke a breach of the peace.”

      “And furthermore, anyone who claims this government is soft-touch on terrorists should perhaps re-think their stance.”
      Why should this list make people re-think their stance? If the government believes anyone on it is a terrorist they should admit them and arrest them.

      “i think british ministers supportive of the govt’s policies wrt the colonial present (palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq) should be denied entry to other countries.”
      You left Sierra Leone, Bosnia-Hercevogina and Kosovo off your list.

    10. dave bones — on 6th May, 2009 at 6:33 am  

      Yeah the list is not a total. Farrakhan is banned so is Omar Bakri.

    11. marvin — on 6th May, 2009 at 7:00 am  

      There’s a ‘hidden’ list too.

    12. damon — on 6th May, 2009 at 8:05 am  

      Michael Savage to sue Jacqui Smith.
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5282245/US-talkshow-host-to-sue-Jacqui-Smith-over-ban-from-Britain.html

      If you’ve never heard him, try looking him up somewhere. He is a bigot, but (I found when I was in the States), he’s so nutty and passionate, that he ends up being hilarious.
      That doesn’t mean I like him, but anyone who writes a book called ”Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” might just be hamming it up for the sake of notoriety.
      http://www.amazon.com/Liberalism-Mental-Disorder-Savage-Solutions/dp/1595550062

    13. Paul S — on 6th May, 2009 at 9:41 am  

      Me, I’m not even happy with jailing people for incitement.

      I reckon there is a serious problem with punishing A for what B does, on the grounds that A “incited” B.

      I’m much more of the old Millian school that we deal with A by argument and effort, not by slapping a ban on him and treating B as though he were an automaton.

      Bans are the tools of those who feel too afraid, or too unsure of themselves, to actually argue and engage - or the tools of those who believe the masses are too stupid to be reasoned with, and hence need to be shielded from the influence of those with other views.

    14. Rumbold — on 6th May, 2009 at 10:18 am  

      A difficult one this. If they were already in this country I would fully support their right to say anythiny they wanted within the law. But it is tempting just to stop them coming in in the first place. We don’t let everyone into Britain who wants to visit, so why should we let people like them in?

    15. fugstar — on 6th May, 2009 at 12:18 pm  

      i wonder what sequence of whisperings put this chap on the list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Alim_Musa
      (so much more interesting bio than Uk people, what are they trying to do? bore us into compliance?

      and what sheer callousness lets the MQM leader at large operate his criminal network from the UK.

    16. Bartholomew — on 6th May, 2009 at 2:54 pm  

      I’ve got background on Mike Guzovsky - I wrote about him a few years ago, not getting lots of hits! He’s a Kahanist extremist beloved by WorldNetDaily.

      http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/wnd-finally-refers-to-aaron-klein-source-as-extremist/

    17. Laban Tall — on 6th May, 2009 at 9:36 pm  

      “I’d be interested in finding out who invited them in the first place”

      I may be wrong, but I read somewhere today that half the people on the list are people who’ve never attempted to visit the UK and who haven’t announced any intention to. So this looks like a bit of posturing.

      I liked Mr Savage’s response. “I’ll tell all my listeners to boycott anything made in England, if you still make anything”

    18. Der Bruno Stroszek — on 7th May, 2009 at 10:48 am  

      I was a bit puzzled when I heard Savage had been banned, since this is the first time I’d heard anything about him since about 2005. His career really is dead and giving him more attention seems counterproductive.

      He does have a very interesting past, mind…

    19. marvin — on 7th May, 2009 at 6:08 pm  

      Pretty good post Sunny. I find no. 3 a little odd, you would expect the vast majority of them to be ‘muslim’ as it’s the terrorism du jour, innit. If it were in earlier decades, I’m sure it would be mostly ‘irish’…

      I like this piece in the Times today, Why on earth are we banning a mouthy DJ?

      So why ban these people? Two reasons. One, a populist diversion. The Government is currently as frenzied and nutty as any scene in the satirical film In the Loop. In a desperate attempt to appear hardline on immigration, advisers have whipped some random stage villains out of the hat.

      Second - and this is the comic bit - while pandering to our base instincts about foreigners, the list had to be racially balanced. So along with the Safwat Hijazis and Nasr Javeds, the Western world was scoured for a tired old shock jock, a Nazi or two and a couple of Russian thugs. They may be as dangerous as toothless lions, but by God they’re white.



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