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    The Afghanis are coming


    by Sunny
    13th April, 2006 at 2:47 pm    

    nagar kirtanOn April 9th Southall hosted the annual Sikh nagar kirtan (street procession) to celebrate Vaisakhi. I was talking to a cousin afterwards who said it had one of the largest turnouts ever. Why do you think that is, I asked. “I don’t know, but if you looked on one side it was full of freshies, and on the other side it was full of Kabulis (Afghani Sikhs) with their push chairs. There was no place to move!”

    She didn’t say it maliciously, so I laughed. But it’s true - Southall has changed. Afghani Sikhs and new immigrants from Panjab are everywhere. This doesn’t bother me as I’ve always been pro-immigration but it will have interesting consequences for the Sikh community I believe.

    1) A faster decline of the Khalistan movement.

    2) Even more Gurudwaras since the Jatts who control the big ones now will not want to give them up.

    3) Sikh ‘community leaders’ will have an even smaller mandate because the new arrivals are nowhere as politicised as the older generation.

    4) Southall will decline further. Why? Because older Sikh families will move out as the area becomes over-crowded. But the new arrivals mostly work (hard) in the black market, meaning they won’t be paying taxes. Hence less investment into local services.

    Any thoughts? Kesara has the pictures. My brother is in the last one.


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    Filed in: Culture,Religion






    52 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs


    1. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:00 pm  

      Sunny

      New arrivals will carry on the cycle - establish themselves, bring their businesses, revitalise the economy, send their kids to Uni, eventually move out. too.

      There are a lot of Somalians down Southall way these days too, I noticed.

    2. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:01 pm  

      Is your bro in the army Sunny?

    3. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:04 pm  

      Nice to see Sikhs carrying the England flag in those pictures too.

    4. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:04 pm  

      Sunny, i was in contact with some Afghan Sikh dude. Most of the Afghan Hindus and Sikhs are now in Germany ( he owns the website http://www.afghanhindu.info ). Incredibly Afghan Hindus and Sikhs share same worship places.

      As for Khalistan… dont the gurudwaras in Southall prominently display pictures of “Sant” Jarnil Singh Bhindrewale?

    5. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:06 pm  

      No they dont Vikrant - go to Southall and see, visit the gurudwaras and see for yourself.

    6. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:06 pm  

      http://flickr.com/photos/kesara/125951734/in/set-72057594102787359/

      Khalistan issue aside, honouring sadistic terrorists is revolting.

    7. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:08 pm  

      Who’s honouring them Vikrant? Not the Sikhs in the Nagar Kirtan - some photocopied posters do not an honouring make, my friend.

    8. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:11 pm  

      No they dont Vikrant - go to Southall and see, visit the gurudwaras and see for yourself.

      Well at Wikipedia one Sikh guy was claiming at gurudwaras in Southall display the pictures of Bhindrewale and other “shaheeds”.

    9. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:11 pm  

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Khalistan

    10. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:13 pm  

      Vikrant, do you see the world through the eys of wikipedia? Get yourself to a train station and spend a day in Southall and see for yourself - do you really believe what religious sectarians and internet ideologues say? Maybe you do.

    11. Sunny — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:15 pm  

      I don’t believe the Khalistan crew have vanished, merely gone underground or online.

      Yes, have noticed the Somalians too. I love them… they’re quite jolly people :)
      Yes, my bro is in the army.

      Vikrant - err why would they be in Germany?

    12. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:16 pm  

      You are da brooday, arent you Vikrant? Get a life dude - get of fthe computer and experience the world.

    13. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:18 pm  

      Sunny - Khalistan crew have set up Khalistan online - it exists for them there - I think they should make a role player game like The Sims for them to play with :-)

    14. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:21 pm  

      Lol… sorry Jay if i hurt your sentiments. Ofcourse i know Khalistan is only supported by tiny minority of extremists.

      @Sunny: Germany granted them asylum during the Taliban years.

    15. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:21 pm  

      Vikrant also interacts at Jihad Watch under the name Vikrant_Camberlayer at which he can be seen shouting angrily at Muslims.

      Do you have an account at Hindunity.org too Vikrant?

    16. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:22 pm  

      I was only joking Vikrant ;-)

    17. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:22 pm  

      Get a life dude

      Who’s life?

    18. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:23 pm  

      If you care to read the website Jay, i am probably one of the most controlled commentators at JW.

    19. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:23 pm  

      Do you have an account at Hindunity.org too Vikrant?

      You well know what i think about those idiots.

    20. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:24 pm  

      Vikrant - you are an internet warrior - the trouble with taking your life and world view from your interactions with people online is that all you do is interact with other people with chips on their shoulders and squint eye from staring at the screen for so long. Your contributions at Jihad Watch are pitiful my friend.

    21. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:26 pm  

      :o pitiful… firstly that account is s”shared” by a dozen people secondly i hate Islamic extremists and their demented ideology… you pseudo-secularist!!!! ( jk ;) )

    22. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:28 pm  

      Sunny

      Your bro looks smart in his uniform and kesh dude.

    23. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:28 pm  

      And to date i’ve had only 3 contributions to JW:

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009664.php
      http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/007790.php
      http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008347.php

    24. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:30 pm  

      Is the guy in military fatigues Sunny’s bro?

    25. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:31 pm  

      squint eye from staring at the screen for so long

      Excuse me i’m not the one who keeps commenting on PP at 3 am.

    26. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:35 pm  

      But I dont post in a hundred different sites and take my ineractions on wikipedia and Jihad Watch as my gold standard for the world. Seriously dude, your interactions on Jihad Watch are sad.

    27. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:37 pm  

      Seriously dude, your interactions on Jihad Watch are sad.

      Maybe if you take my interactions a year ago…. but these days i rarely venture there. JW has become just another “Ooooh Christians persecuted in Islamic countries” blog.

    28. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 3:51 pm  

      BTW Jay, thanks for the laughs (HinduUnity link….). Delusional twats.

    29. Sid Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:16 pm  

      which guy in looking smart in military uniform and kesh is Sunny’s bro?

    30. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:16 pm  

      Delusional twats

      Perfect description for 90% of the desi religious-sectarian internet warriors - they thrive online. Dont take them at face value - they are mangy, most of them.

    31. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:17 pm  

      The one on the right Sid

      http://flickr.com/photos/kesara/125949696/in/set-72057594102787359/

    32. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:25 pm  

      Sunny’s brp doesnt look like Sunny to say at the least. Sunny looks more like a Kashmiri than a Punjabi to me.

    33. Sunny — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:31 pm  

      Can you guys please stop bickering. Let’s talk about afghani sikhs please?
      Vikrant - didn’t know germany granted asylum to many of them… I wonder how many actually left the country since many of them went to India too.

    34. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:35 pm  

      Well Afghan Hindus and Sikhs numered aroun 40000-50000 in 1981. Now their numbers have dwindled to 1200. As there people primarily speak Pashto i think they had difficulty in integrating in India. Morever India’s stupid citizenship laws make it mandatory for them to live in India for 12 years b4 getting a citizenship, i guess nobody would be THAT patient. There are about 30000 of them in Germany, actually i was surprised to see 2 Hindu temples in Colonge are run by Afghans.

    35. Jai — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:38 pm  

      I’ve never met any Afghani Sikhs myself although I know there have been quite a few recent arrivals to the UK.

      Is it true that they speak Pashtu amongst themselves, rather than Punjabi ?

      Are there any major cultural differences that anyone has noticed (very broadly-speaking of course, we don’t want to generalise excessively or stereotype) between Afghani Sikhs and Indian Sikhs ? How much of the local Pathan culture have they assimilated ?

      How long have they been in Afghanistan for — since Maharajah Ranjit Singh’s time, or all the way back to the era of the Sikh Gurus ?

      Lots of questions, I know, but this is an interesting topic.

    36. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 4:39 pm  

      Jai >> http://www.afghanhindu.info

    37. Expose — on 13th April, 2006 at 6:48 pm  

      Jay - since you are so critical of “those” armchair/keybowrd warriors - pray, do tell us of your off line exploits.

    38. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 7:09 pm  

      What do you want to know Expose? And why? Were you upset by something I said?

    39. Expose — on 13th April, 2006 at 7:38 pm  

      No, Jay - Not upset. Just curious.
      After all, you were a tad condescending towards people who frequent certain blogs - i.e., hinduunity & jihadwatch.

    40. Jay Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 7:43 pm  

      So what if I am condescending of them? I am condescending towards all extremists - although in a certain way I think it might not be such a bad thing because it lets them blow off steam by huffing and puffing on the internet - however the downside is that they can potentially give a false impression - the ones who shout loudest get the most attention and it does not give a true impression of communities.

      Anyway, sorry if you were offended I apologise.

    41. StrangelyPsychedelique/Kesara — on 13th April, 2006 at 8:18 pm  

      I caught Sunny’s brother on cam? :-O

      whoa….this is the second time I’ve captured someone who has a link to PP wihtout knowing it.

      Who next? Kevin Bacon?

      lets hope!

    42. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 9:04 pm  

      Expose is not me in case you guys are wondering….

    43. Vikrant Singh — on 13th April, 2006 at 9:05 pm  

      btw HinduUnity is not a blog, it some whacko website put together by a 12 yr old.

    44. Expose — on 13th April, 2006 at 11:40 pm  

      No, I am not Vikrant. Am sure the keepers of this blog can verify that.
      Jay, As I had asked earlier - what is it that you do offline, which makes dissimlar to those “keyboard warriors”?
      Btw, Some people may construe your remarks as chauvinistic. i.e., Sikh chauvinistic.
      While I do not condone [all] the opinions on hinduunity and jihadwatch, I think twice before labelling them as hiding behind their computers. After all, isn’t that what we do as well. Issue blanket condemnations ?

    45. Jay Singh — on 14th April, 2006 at 12:47 am  

      Right so you are upset because I called those fruitbats and bigots for what they are? That’s why you are irked and keep asking me creepy questions? That causes you heartburn and pain and makes me a chauvinist? What a bollocks-for-brains you are. Go and soothe your pain somewhere else and stop being silly.

    46. Sunny — on 14th April, 2006 at 1:40 am  

      Lol at Kevin Bacon! Erm, sorry mate don’t know the guy. My brother, like me, crops up in all sorts of places. :)

      Hinduunity people are fruitcakes, but its def not some 12yr old. I read an article a few years ago, in which the person who put that site together was interviewed. Some middle-aged nutter from America. Funny old world…

    47. raz — on 14th April, 2006 at 2:17 am  

      “Hinduunity people are fruitcakes, but its def not some 12yr old. I read an article a few years ago, in which the person who put that site together was interviewed. Some middle-aged nutter from America. Funny old world…”

      You would be suprised how old some of these nutters are. For instance, check out this meeting of the ‘brains’ behind that notorious cesspit of racism, hatred and general stupidity, Bharat-Rakshak.com:

      http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/big_throath01/3.jpg

      Check the guy on the bottom right - don’t these losers have anything better to waste their lives on?!

    48. Vikrant Singh — on 14th April, 2006 at 6:41 pm  

      Yeah rite raz, Pakistani blogs/forums as if are examples of politeness. Bharat Rakshak is an Indian Army fansite, ofcourse you will get nutter there but i see nothing wrong in that.

    49. shiva — on 14th April, 2006 at 8:29 pm  

      Afghan Hindus and Sikhs are Afghan as in Afghan Muslims or Afghan Christians. The Prithviraj Kapoor family is a Pashtho Hindu family as Dilip Kumar/Yusuf Khan and Shahrukh Khan are Pashtho Muslims.

      You would be suprised how old some of these nutters are. For instance, check out this meeting of the ‘brains’ behind that notorious cesspit of racism, hatred and general stupidity, Bharat-Rakshak.com

      Bharat-Rakshak is among the best unofficial military sites on the www. Its webmasters and contributors include academics, military enthusiasts, journalists (NDTV), and even one gastroenterologist. BR meets in the US almost always host an academic from the strategic affairs faculty of the university in the city or region where the meet happens. BR had a stall at the last AeroIndia and its contributors were among the accredited correspondents at the event. Serious unofficial military sites in Europe and the Americas defer to BR’s point of view on strategic issues concerning the Indian subcontinent. The open forum is a small part of BR and has its share of kooks and cretins like forums anywhere.

    50. Jay Singh — on 14th April, 2006 at 9:48 pm  

      shiva

      Are they actually ethnically Pashto though? I mean, the Kapoors, are they ethnically Pathan or are they Punjabis who migrated to Afghanistan? Same question for the current Sikh and Hindu Afghans, are they descended from Punjabi migrants or are they ethnically racially Pathan?

    51. Vikrant Singh — on 14th April, 2006 at 10:21 pm  

      Kapoors are Hindu Pathans, Hindu-Sikh Afghans are largely Punjabis and Sindhis who migrated in 19th century. They speak Pastho though.

    52. Expose — on 16th April, 2006 at 4:17 pm  

      Beore the arrival of Islam in Afghanistan, the land was mostly Hindu and Buddhist at various times.
      So is it reasonable to assume that the Hindu’s of Afghanistan must be ethnic kins of the pathans etc?

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