Munir/blah makes me “munir/blahphobic”, that’s for sure. He’s on a one man campaign to promote racism and islamophobia from what i can see – painting all Muslims as intolerant, blinkered bigots. Is he actually a BNP plant?

“”Common Humanist
“But you still won’t side with humanity over barbarism. ”

Hhahaha- Bush and Blair and Olmert and Leibrman are humanity”"

I was thinking about the 99% of humanity who reject medieval religious barbarsim. Interestly you choose to respond with four morons. Why?

And meanwhile in the Taleban areas of Pakistan:

Pakistan’s Daily Times reports:

The Sikh community living in Orakzai Agency on Wednesday conceded to Taliban demand to pay them jizia – tax levied on non-Muslims living under Islamic rule – and paid Rs 20 million to Taliban in return for ‘protection’.

Officials told Daily Times that the Taliban also released Sikh leader Sardar Saiwang Singh and vacated the community’s houses after the Sikhs accepted the Taliban demand.

The officials said the Taliban announced that the Sikhs were now free to live anywhere in the agency.

They also announced protection for the Sikh community, saying that no one would harm them after they paid jizia. Sikhs who had left the agency would now return to their houses and resume their business in the agency, the officials said.

Nice, eh?

So Munir do you support this act by the Taleban?

There is no name for fear and hatred of Sikhs, so there is no word to describe the racist and communalist undertones in munir’s words.

But if the words “rag” and “head” were used in connection with “Muslim” then it would be a clear case of “Islamophobia”.

Islamists like blah/munir can be racist and communalist because only he can ever be the victim of Islamophobia.

Because true spirituality is wrapping a rag round your head, being forced to have a particular name and carrying a knife with you at all times.

I agree completely with Don in #62.

By all means, don’t stop, Munir/Blah. Let it all out. Show the whole world exactly how ignorant you are and how much you really do hate Sikhs along with everyone else who isn’t a Muslim in your eyes (especially Hindus and Jews).

Keep going. Don’t let the rest of us stop you from demonstrating how close to God you really are and how your ideas about religion and spirituality are clearly having such a “positive” effect on your character and behaviour. After all, you’re someone who’s not only a sincere follower of “the only true religion” but indeed “the only true version of Islam”, right ?

Show the world exactly how pious and moral a devout believer really is. Surely, as one of the exalted minority with a special place in God’s affections and who have an accurate interpretation of his wishes and expectations of mankind, your own conduct and personality are a reflection of this. Truly you are on the path to saintliness.

Make sure you don’t hold back at all.

Oh, and we’re still waiting for an answer on whether you believe Wahhabism/Salafism to be the most accurate version of Islam and its adherents to be the most superior examples of those who are closest to God, and also whether you believe that members of these groups are closer to God and with a greater level of spiritual awareness than Bulleh Shah, Nizamuddin Auliya, Amir Khusro, Baba Farid, Rahman Baba and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

Please don’t stop. C’mon, there must be a little more anger and bitterness in there. Take it to 11.

Because true spirituality is wrapping a rag round your head, being forced to have a particular name and carrying a knife with you at all times.

“Does anyone seriously expect the attempts to repeat 7/7 to stop once British troops have left Iraq?”

But can you explain why there were no 7/7s until British troops went into Iraq despite their being a substantial Muslim population in the UK for nigh on 40 years

The only people blowing up others in the past were members of the Irish community. It must have been because of their deep hatred of shandy.

Purely as a matter of timing, based on when they went to training camps, bought bomb-making equipment and so on, then it really can’t have been Iraq, unless they were psychic. If you are going to blame it on a foreign policy issue, the timing points to Afghanistan.

Which makes sense, as the invasion of Afghanistan _was_ primarily a retaliatory attack on the Taliban and al qaeda, not a humanitarian intervention/resource grab/daddy issue (delete according to taste). It’s not like al qaeda wouldn’t have been delighted to claim credit for overthrowing Saddam under other circumstances…

I suspect all those ‘honest commentators, without an agenda’ only say Iraq because they personally opposed the one but backed the other.

It’s certainly a straw man to say that al qaeda and their groupies are strictly mindless monsters with no political motivation. Thing is, the alternatives to that aren’t limited to the idea that they are just exceptionally angry Guardian readers. The list of things they hate has very little overlap with the list of things a Radio 4 presenter will get sarcastic about.

Does anyone seriously expect the attempts to repeat 7/7 to stop once British troops have left Iraq?

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3775#comment-155196

Good points in #42, mate.

By the way, regarding your comments about not being able to see God or prove he exists purely via “reason”, you know that certain Sufi teachings along with Sikhism and the more mystical aspects of numerous other religions have a few things to say about perceiving God through the heart……But that’s a different matter

Repeated? Im not sure how pointing out that Nanak and Tegh Bahadur dont have a right to say who is and isnt a Muslim could be classed as such.

Let’s take a look at your remarks again:

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3469#comment-152743 :

Aurangzeb offed one of the Sikh Gurus so he is essential using his own religious fundamentalism to criticise others’. LOL.

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3775#comment-155196 :

Aurangzeb (may God be pleased with him) because he offered one of his Gurus. Thus because HIS religion says Aurangzeb is a baddy it must be a fact thiugh its realy a matter of faith

Nice to know that you find the torture, attempted forced conversion to Islam and subsequent public execution of Guru Tegh Bahadur to be so amusing and indeed something you personally support.

Perhaps I should start reading Guru Nanaks works about “the true Muslim is the one whose namaz is blah blah blha” to learn my religion. Lol

Perhaps I should remind you that Guru Nanak was revered as a saintly individual by Muslims as well as Hindus during his lifetime — there have even been 500-year-old shrines along with inscriptions in his honour which have been discovered in Baghdad – including (since you like to misappropriate the Mughal emperors whenever it’s convenient for you to do so) Babur himself, who eventually recognised him as a genuine saint and treated him with enormous respect.

Your tone about Guru Nanak’s teaching that a person’s conduct and integrity (irrespective of their religious affiliation, although he was obviously using Muslims as an example in this instance) should be more important than simply “going through the motions” and outward adherence to the ritualistic aspects of the religion concerned is clearly mocking and derisive.

Don’t you think that Guru Nanak made a very good point, or do you actually agree with the highly superficial approach to religion & spirituality practiced by people like OBL, Anjem Choudary, the Taliban, the more fanatical Wahhabis/Salafis etc, with their shallow emphasis on adherence to ostentatious, conspicuous displays of outward alleged “piety” with comparatively little concern for inner integrity, morality and genuine spirituality ?

And are you seriously sugesting Nanak and Tegh Bahadur should be beyond unkind comments? Imagine if a Muslim stood up and said non-Muslims should not say anything bad about Prophet Muhammed!!! Daily express headline

So why should Sikhs be immune? Where are the Jylands Postens cartoons of Guru Nanak?

really you Sikhs should develop thicker skin and learn to accept jokes about yout gurus

I don’t think people should gratuitously make offensive remarks about the founders of any religion, regardless of the specific religion involved. Honest, objective analysis and critique is one thing, but deliberately being a jerk with the intention to ridicule the individuals concerned and sadistically hurt people who venerate them is a different matter entirely. Do you understand the distinction between the two situations ?

Again, you’re the one who’s complaining about “unkind comments” about Mohammad. Here’s your latest remark:

books and media that attack the Quran, the Prophet and call his wives (our mothers) deeply offensive names?

By your own logic (not mine), do you therefore believe that these individuals should not be immune from unkind comments, and that Muslims should “develop a thicker skin and learn to accept jokes” about Mohammad and his wives ?

Many Sikhs hate Muslims
Thats a fact

That’s because of the persecution that Sikhs suffered under a couple of the Mughal emperors and later the various atrocities they suffered during the 18th century at the hands of local rulers and invaders from the northwest who all claimed to be acting in the name of Islam. More recently it’s because of the two-way mass atrocities which occurred during Partition.

They’re not drawing on any kind of religious justification for their animosity. There are no Sikh “sects” or “theological interpretations” — either formal or informal — which teach hatred of non-Sikhs, including Muslims. Visit any gurdwara on the planet and you can find out for yourself. Sikhism in fact preaches against hatred of any kind; in fact, even anger — to the point of actual rage, not just indignation — is literally classed as one of the major self-destructive corrosive “sins”, whether it’s “justifiable” or not.

This is a feeble answer -its like saying because most of the disciples were Jewish their in to anti-Judaism in Christianity

Not at all, it makes it clear that there is no “inbuilt” hostility to Muslims in Sikhism, particularly where the scriptures are concerned. If you were aware of the actual contents of the Guru Granth Sahib then you’d know that it actually preaches tolerance, friendship and compassion towards people irrespective of their religious affiliation, without distinction (including Muslims). It’s the reason that every gurdwara on the planet, including the Golden Temple in Amritsar, is open to visitors from any religious background — including Muslims — as a place of refuge, peace and universal brotherhood, without prejudice, without animosity and without any pressure to convert either.

However, the religion is certainly inherently hostile towards the type of malevolence, bigotry and hypocrisy practised in the name of God by the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Al-Muhajiroun, the Wahhabis, along with their contemporary and historical counterparts in multiple other religions. Which shouldn’t be a problem for you, unless you believe that the interpretation of Islam practised by those groups really is “the real Islam” and divinely condoned.

Derisive? Ive merely respond in kind to attacks on Muslims-

So you believe in “responding in kind” in these situations, rather than following the teachings of Islam ? What about your remark in post #15 above, namely:

In other words they want to be as bad as non-Muslims are rather than following Islams prohibition on killing civilians.

Aren’t you behaving in the same way as AQ, by mimicking the behaviour of your “bad non-Muslim” opponents rather than using the teachings of Islam itself as your source of guidance ?

And the “attacks”, as TCH clearly stated above, have been against certain interpretations and groups claiming to act in the name of Islam, not against Muslims per se.

Which, again, shouldn’t have been a problem for you, unless you believe that the interpretation of Islam by the extremists concerned is authentic.

Noooooo, I have no interest whatsoever in wanting to represent you munir.

I want British Muslims to shed the divisive politics of identity, to reject Islamism and become true citizens and stakeholders of this country. And to accept its shared values such as freedom of expression and other universalist principles.

Kenan Malik has authoritatively shown how we got into this mess. It is less obvious how to get out.

How do you know they are not? You claimed to know that in your post #9

I didn’t claim to “know that”, I said that just because the bombers claimed to be motivated by reason A, it doesn’t mean that they were telling the truth or indeed that they weren’t motivated by other reasons (either simultaneously or alternatively).

The only people who say it wasnt a motivation

But Munir, you said it was THE motivation, not “a” motivation. Are you now backtracking and acknowledging that they may have been motivated by other reasons as well, which certainly may not have been “sincere” at all ?

Doesnt mean for a minute I agree with their methodology which is not from islam but from others.

So you agree that Wahhabism and Salafi-Jihadism are not actually “from Islam” ?

Seeking to understand what motivates extremism isnt the same as agreeing with it. It certainly beats your pathethic Sun-like “they are pscyopaths” rhetoric.

If it was our school curriculums would be agreeing with Nazism since they explain how and why the Nazis were able to take power.

That’s a pretty binary way of thinking. What makes you think that someone wouldn’t be motivated by extremism (including “justifiable anger”) and simultaneously be a psychopath, either because they already suffer from that type of psychiatric disorder and the extremist ideology gives them an excuse to rationalise and act on it, or because their “anger” and the extremist ideology they draw inspiration from actually triggered such psychiatric disorders in them ?

Bearing in mind that I’m using the term “psychopath” literally in the medical sense, rather than purely as a rhetorical tool.

Munir’s conspicuous silence in response to my questions in the last two paragraphs of #31 is interesting too, although not necessarily surprising.

Munir needs to check with his Jihadist pals for answers, as obviously he has no brain for figuring things out by himself.

Many Sikhs hate Muslims
Thats a fact

” especially considering the fact that the Guru Granth Sahib is full of writings by saints from multiple religious backgrounds (including Muslims), the foundation stone of the Golden Temple in Amristar was laid by a Muslim saint, all the Sikh Gurus had non-Sikh friends and allies (including Muslims) and Guru Gobind Singh himself not only had Muslim soldiers in his army but also received help from numerous friendly Muslims at some of the worst periods of his life.”

This is a feeble answer -its like saying because most of the disciples were Jewish their in to anti-Judaism in Christianity

“As for hatred of people belonging to different religions…..Given your derisive remarks about Jews, Hindus and Sikhs, ”

Derisive? Ive merely respond in kind to attacks on Muslims- kind of tells us something about

“along with your repeated offensive “jokes” about Guru Nanak and Guru Tegh Bahadur,”

“And your sneeringly dismissive “jokes” about the Sikh Gurus doesn’t exactly give you any moral authority or credibility to accuse Sid of supporting works abusing Mohammad as per #3, especially considering your complaints about “not wanting to be held to different standards compared to everyone else”.

Repeated? Im not sure how pointing out that Nanak and Tegh Bahadur dont have a right to say who is and isnt a Muslim could be classed as such.

And are you seriously sugesting Nanak and Tegh Bahadur should be beyond unkind comments? Imagine if a Muslim stood up and said non-Muslims should not say anything bad about Prophet Muhammed!!! Daily express headline

So why should Sikhs be immune? Where are the Jylands Postens cartoons of Guru Nanak?

really you Sikhs should develop thicker skin and learn to accept jokes about yout gurus
The issue with Sid is he seeks to claim he represnts Muslims thought on these issues while supporting books and media that attack the Quran, the Prophet and call his wives (our mothers) deeply offensive names?

It’s not like those psychopaths would actually be lying or motivated by multiple reasons other than (or along with) “foreign policy”, is it ?

They seemed quite sincere when they said they were motivated by what happened in Iraq. I do not think they were lying. As platinium said, these people were groomed and brainwashed. Quite frankly, they could have just said anything at that point, they were just parroting what their masters told them to do so, including pointing their fingers to the TV.

I am curious whether Munir believes that these bombers went to heaven given their actions, and are enjoying their 72 virgins – or are rotting in Hell.

And that is why AQ’s suicide bombers do not blow themselves in places where innocent Muslim civilians are, like Iraq or Pakistan. Right Munir?

Or Jordan. Or Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt. Or the recent ‘guerilla’ attack on Mumbai. Or indeed Edgware Road on 7/7.

Munir’s conspicuous silence in response to my questions in the last two paragraphs of #31 is interesting too, although not necessarily surprising.

****************************************

Damon, TCH,

I wish I was as able as Jai was in his last post.

What Jai said at 36.

Thanks for your response, guys.

By the way, you may wish to also check out two posts by me on the “Pakistan flogging” thread earlier today, in case you missed it. They both make some very relevant points in relation to some of the matters we’re discussing here.

Links: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/4093#comment-158755 and (particularly) http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/4093#comment-158757 .

Hhahaha- Bush and Blair and Olmert and Leibrman are humanity

No they are sincere.

Jai
“How do you know ?”

How do you know they are not? You claimed to know that in your post #9

Every honest commentator, without an agenda, says the Iraq war was the main motivation for 7/7 .

Jai
“Honest” accordng to whom ? You ?”

According to anyone with a brain. Chatham House explicitly stated this . The only people who say it wasnt a motivation are the government who launched the Iraq war (“to make us safer”) and its zionist supporters who have an agenda.

Munir

Al Qaida recruits and is primarily driven by atrocities against Muslims. These people see Muslim civilans being killed by non-Muslims in huge numbers so want to kill non-Muslims in revenge

Jai
“How do you know ? Do you know any of these people personally ? What makes you think they’re even telling the truth regardless of the “reasons” (more like “excuses”) they claim to be motivated by ?”

Because I am a Muslim and I understand the emotions and justifiable anger they play on

Doesnt mean for a minute I agree with their methodology which is not from islam but from others.

Seeking to understand what motivates extremism isnt the same as agreeing with it. It certainly beats your pathethic Sun-like “they are pscyopaths” rhetoric.

If it was our school curriculums would be agreeing with Nazism since they explain how and why the Nazis were able to take power.