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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Tories: listening to BNP voters


    by Sunny on 14th April, 2009 at 4:27 am    

    I’ll come back to this theme later, but first I want to highlight a post on ConservativeHome which publishes this BNP poster:

    The comments underneath the article betray typical Tory thinking on the issue.

    maybe the Conservative party should plainly announce it’s views on Europe,immigration etc and reconnect with it’s core voters.
    Posted by: R.Rowan | April 10, 2009 at 18:28
    —-
    How about a policy on immigration and overcrowding.
    Posted by: erica | April 10, 2009 at 19:15
    —-
    This is not really worrying. Let’s please not exaggerate the ‘threat’ posed by the BNP. The will not win any parliamentary seats, they will not control any councils. If they win a seat at the European Elections it will be because of the absurdity of the electoral system not because of their popularity.
    If we want to fight the BNP effectively then we need to have a coherent,effective policy on immigration which we can sell to all reasonable people.
    Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | April 10, 2009 at 19:27
    —-
    I heartily agree with most of the posts here. You can’t defeat the BNP by calling them rude names, however well deserved.
    The only way to beat them is to fight them on their own ground. But we are failing to do this. They have policies on immigration - where are our policies? They have policies on multiculturalism. We mouth PC platitudes…. I could go on.
    Posted by: Country Mouse | April 10, 2009 at 20:15
    —-
    When all three establishment parties more or less agree when it comes to issues like immigration, crime, MPs expenses etc, it’s no surprise people are looking for answers elsewhere. As poll after poll tells us, people care about these issues, and are unhappy with the Labour-Tory-Lib-Dim line.
    Posted by: James | April 11, 2009 at 12:34

    A few points. First, the BNP poster doesn’t even talk about immigration - rather about corruption, and yet it’s the first issue many raise.

    This then suggests that rather than saying ‘we should never have our policy dictated by fascists‘, or saying ‘we shouldn’t be fighting them on their ground because they’re racists/fascists‘ - these Tory supporters actually want to reclaim the ground from the BNP.

    Not everyone says that on the thread of course. But my point is - no one actually challenges the view that the Conservative Party should not have its views dictated to by the BNP, and that the party should take a different stance. And actually, I don’t find this altogether very surprising.



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    39 Comments below   |   Add your own

    1. atropos — on 14th April, 2009 at 6:19 am  

      Sunny. you didn’t read all the postings. I, posting as Grumpy Old Man, and several others made the point that we, the Conservatives, should ignore the BNP as they are an extreme left-wing centerist party, proposing many labour policies, who are splitting the Labour vote. Their principle support is coming from hereditary Labour voters who have finally realised that New Labour has deserted them. I also made the point about the Le Pen phenomenon. Remember Le Pen? He got 10% of a French vote in the 90’s. Where are he and his party now?
      The BNP is a Labour problem, in the same way that the UKIP in 1997 was a Conservative problem. Until Labour reconnect with their traditional core vote and rediscover and promote traditional Labour principles, the BNP will continue as a cancerous growth in the UK body politic.

    2. cjcjc — on 14th April, 2009 at 6:39 am  

      Earth to Lord Hundal.

      Isn’t this the kind of thing that Labour ministers are saying?

    3. Roger — on 14th April, 2009 at 6:40 am  

      “Remember Le Pen?”
      Yes. As the oldest M.E.P. he may well give the opening address when the parliament next sits.

      I don’t know whether it’s encouraging ir discouraging, but a lot of people seem to be under the impression that they can vote for the B.N.P. purely as a protest and their vote will have no other consequences.

    4. marvin — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:09 am  

      Awww bless McHundal!

      Meanwhile the vote for National Socialists will increase as the socialist party becomes increasingly disconnected from reality and it’s electorate.

    5. Sunny — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:33 am  

      I did read all the views, but my two points still remain

      First that there is a worryingly large contingent of ppl obsessed by immigration and who want to take the BNP line

      Furthermore - I don’t see that many ppl challenging this attitude either.

      Cjcjc - oh completely! I won’t even deny it. In fact that was going to be my next point

    6. cjcjc — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:33 am  

      Is this Lord H at the top of the ladder?

      (I know it’s the Mail…sorry, but apposite for today)

      http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/13/article-1169771-046EE86C000005DC-469_468×335_popup.jpg

    7. Bert Rustle — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:36 am  

      Sunny wrote <i…. the BNP poster … talk[s] about … corruption …

      Which other party is?

      In a interview with William Black http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2009/04/crisis-of-our-democracy-corruption-in.html he outlines the industrial scale of corruption across elected representatives, presidential nominees and bankers.

      It is highly alarming and I currently do not have any reason to assume the position is any different in the UK.

      For a related video interview: William K. Black, author of The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One: How Corporate Executives and Politicians Looted the Savings & Loan Industry is interviewed on video by PBS (akin to a BBC of the USA) regarding the industrial scale fraud within the Ruling Class which has precipitated the current financial situation: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html

      This is the only program I have seen which in clear and measured terms sets out the situation. In my opinion.

    8. Dave S — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:36 am  

      It’s laughable that the BNP can pretend that they’re not involved in financial irregularities when they themselves aren’t in the habit of filing their accounts on time, and seem to be narrowly avoiding bankruptcy on a more-or-less continual basis.

      Surely a much better idea to “punish the pigs” would be by refusing to vote for anybody who arrogantly believes that they deserve to be in power or have “all the answers”.

      Where are the politicians or political parties who admit that they really don’t have all the answers, and that this is both a sensible and desirable quality because (in theory at least) it means that they are in a position of needing to listen to the people they are supposed to represent?

      I’m yet to see anybody who says that, because they’re all too busy bitching about how much worse the others are compared to them. It’s pathetic!

      I think it’s time we recognise that electing fallible people (ie. anybody!) to positions of power over us is the epitome of blind-leading-the-blind, and is just asking for trouble.

      Therefore, the solution to corruption is to decentralise power completely, so that everybody has a complete say in the running of their lives and communities, but that nobody is in a position of enough influence to be able to act in a corrupt manner.

      As politicians show time and time again how utterly corrupt they are, isn’t it time to give anarchy (from the Greek “an archos” meaning “without rule”) another look?

      Contrary to popular smears, anarchy can be incredibly well organised. It’s power comes from people working together for the mutual benefit of everyone, rather than fighting each other for dominance.

      No more party politics, no more politicians, no more so-called “representatives” - because we are the only people who can represent and act in our best interests.

      The realisation that we actually can control our own lives is an incredibly powerful motivating force for good, even if only experienced as a small part of our current reality. It binds us together to achieve great things, and it often results in the question: If we can organise some parts of our lives like this, then why don’t we organise all parts of our lives like this?

      Indeed, there is no reason we can’t - although undoubtedly it might take us a little while to get the hang of it properly.

      Now, even if you aren’t an out-and-out anarchist like me, surely you’ve got to admit that everybody controlling their own lives and having an equal say in their communities is a very reasonable and desirable objective to aim for?

      As ever, I’m genuinely interested to hear why anybody would disagree with that.

      (For example, even if you don’t believe it’s possible in it’s entirety, shouldn’t we be aiming for as much of it as we can anyway?)

    9. cjcjc — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:42 am  

      Ooops - we crossed!

    10. cjcjc — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:44 am  

      Ah, but who is Corporal “don’t panic, don’t panic” Jones?

      Hazel Blears?

    11. Bert Rustle — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:53 am  

      For an accessible exposition of a plausible mechanism underlying the bailouts in the USA, see http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2009/04/the-fake-recovery.html

      … This is a fake recovery because the underlying systemic issues in the financial sector are being papered over through various mechanisms designed to surreptitiously recapitalize banks while monetary and fiscal stimulus induces a rebound before many banks’ inherent insolvency becomes a problem. …

      Why is the Establishment Party not addressing this topic in the UK?

    12. cjcjc — on 14th April, 2009 at 8:04 am  

      Dave S - you’re wasting your time.
      Most people here want a bigger state.

    13. Bert Rustle — on 14th April, 2009 at 8:18 am  

      The Dad’s Army poster

      http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__038h9Rc9WA/SdvdzaBPU_I/AAAAAAAABW0/aam88Z5PsrI/s400/bankers+4.png

      potentially has a lot of mileage.

      Capt Mannering: Gordon Brown
      Private Pike: David “stupid boy” Milliband
      Seargeant Wilson: Frank Field
      ARP Warden Hodges: Nick Griffin
      Private Sponge: So many!
      Reverend Farthing: Archbishop Sentamu

      Corporal Jones ?

    14. damon — on 14th April, 2009 at 9:36 am  

      I’m not quite sure about the title of this thread.
      Shouldn’t BNP voters (or potential voters) be listened to? Why are they even thinking about voting for the BNP in the first place? Is there any justification in their feeling alienated enough by mainstream politics to countenance such a thing?

      It might seem a harmless enough thing to do by some people. You secretly put an X on a ballot paper - and can have the pleasure of causing a bit of a ruckas and a flap amongst people you wanted to stick two fingers up to. People who you might have felt were patronising you. (I think people who have BNP type leanings feel patronised by mainstream politics and political comment.)

      Should the Pakistani government ”listen” to the people of Waziristan?

    15. The Common Humanist — on 14th April, 2009 at 9:45 am  

      The BNP a ‘left wing centerist party’…….if you said that in a BNP meeting you would be lucky to get out alive.

      They define themselves as Rightwing anyway so trying to argue they are leftwing seems to me bizarre - where is their anti racism, egalitareanism, environmentalism etc etc etc? Industrial policy alone does not make a party leftwing.

      But still, people are moving from either non voting or from Labour to BNP more then Tory to BNP (if the Tories were in power in a severe downturn then the opposite would be true) and that needs to be recognised and addressed - housing, unemployment and training/education opportunities being key. There is a mass of BNP support that can be drained by such investment, and this is key, communicating it effectively. Under Blair Labour was always shy of the progress it was making in housing, education and training (not enough but a damn sight better under the Tories) and by the time Brown arrived there were other problems to be faced.

      The banking bailouts, whilst probably necessary in some manner (am with Cable on this - why not nationalise, restructure then sell off some bits whilst having a nationwide credit union and community banking system but I disgress) are a gift to extremists - ‘See, Labour can find billions for the Fat Cats but not for You!’ etc etc etc.

    16. Ravi Naik — on 14th April, 2009 at 11:57 am  

      Not everyone says that on the thread of course. But my point is - no one actually challenges the view that the Conservative Party should not have its views dictated to by the BNP, and that the party should take a different stance. And actually, I don’t find this altogether very surprising.

      I believe that a lot people vote for the BNP as a protest against the political establishment. The BNP exploits people’s fears and resentment for their gain, so why on earth shouldn’t Labour and Conservatives listen to the BNP, and try to get their voters back? There is no point in crying “racism” and “fascism” in every election, as the BNP keeps on getting increasingly more support.

    17. munir — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:05 pm  

      Given that the Tories have fought the last three losing elections on strong anti-immigration policies and lost miserably they really seem to be flogging a dead horse. Its like Labour left wingers in the 80s suggesting the party make itself more electable by becoming more left wing.

      But the centre is where the votes are.

      When there is a Labour govt the far right vote always increases (we saw that in the 70s) when the toires get in theyll steal some of their clothes.

      They’ll win next time simply by default - people are sick of Labour and think Brown is a joke.

    18. Ravi Naik — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:09 pm  

      should ignore the BNP as they are an extreme left-wing centerist party, proposing many labour policies, who are splitting the Labour vote.

      There is nothing centrist about the BNP. They oppose capitalism and Humanism, and embrace an extreme form of social conservatism.

    19. munir — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:09 pm  

      Ravi Naik
      “I believe that a lot people vote for the BNP as a protest against the political establishment. The BNP exploits people’s fears and resentment for their gain, so why on earth shouldn’t Labour and Conservatives listen to the BNP, and try to get their voters back? There is no point in crying “racism” and “fascism” in every election, as the BNP keeps on getting increasingly more support.”

      Its interesting how this principal works differently for minority and majority extremism. The solution to Muslim extremism is not to listen to Muslims concern or look at why people join extremist groups- rather it is to close those groups and appoint puppets who say what the governemnt wants.

      Alternatively majority extremism is pandered to. No one is suggetsing banning the BNP. Instead mainstream parties react by listening to peoples concerns and co opting their policies.

      Conclusion: being a minority sucks

    20. platinum786 — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:21 pm  

      Political parties have to get outside of this Left-Right-Centre mindset, in order to appeal to more voters. There are a lot of people who don’t vote in this country, something like 40%. At the same time we have a lot of people voting for the BNP, or an increasing number of people voting for the BNP, simply because they see political parties as “all the same”.

      Political parties need to here what voters concerns on issues are, and address those concerns, even if it means going outside of your comfort zone.

      They’re failing in the basics of politics, listening to people. They think whatever issue the media throws at us, is what everyone is concerned about. A perfect example, whilist the credit crisis was getting ready to explode, documentaries were coming on TV about huge levels of credit card debt etc, money management programmes were the new “in thing”, our government and all our political parties were busy arguing over green and the environment. Had those efforts been focused on preventing a recession we might not be here today, i mean we all knew it was going to happen, it didn’t suprise me when it did.

    21. Ravi Naik — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:24 pm  

      The solution to Muslim extremism is not to listen to Muslims concern or look at why people join extremist groups- rather it is to close those groups and appoint puppets who say what the governemnt wants.

      I think a more apt analogy would be to compare these Islamist groups who like to blow up people with white supremacist groups like C18. The difference is that the government swiftly removed these white supremacist groups without asking them why they joined or even understand them, while it took the attacks in 9/11 and 7/7 for the government to do something about radical Islam.

    22. Ravi Naik — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:24 pm  

      The solution to Muslim extremism is not to listen to Muslims concern or look at why people join extremist groups- rather it is to close those groups and appoint puppets who say what the governemnt wants.

      I think a more apt analogy would be to compare these Islamist groups who like to blow up people with white supremacist groups like C18. The difference is that the government swiftly removed these white supremacist groups without asking them why they joined or even understand them, while it took the attacks in 9/11 and 7/7 for the government to do something about radical Islam.

    23. The Common Humanist — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:30 pm  

      Hi Munir,

      Do you support the Talebans social policies in Pakistan and Afghanistan towards women? Would you have helped flogg that girl? Incidently, as the Taleban have just executed a couple for eloping together (love now illegal and punishable by death under Taleban Islam) would you agree with that judgement and punishment?

    24. Ravi Naik — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:43 pm  

      TCH can’t you see that Munir can’t criticise his Taliban brothers because you are a non-Muslim? Instead, he is available to discuss the evil BNP. You could ask him if he agrees with the BNP had they a policy of flogging girls or executing couples for being in love. :)

    25. Ravi Naik — on 14th April, 2009 at 12:43 pm  

      TCH can’t you see that Munir can’t criticise his Taliban brothers because you are a non-Muslim? Instead, he is available to discuss the evil BNP. You could ask him if he agrees with the BNP had they a policy of flogging girls or executing couples for being in love.

    26. MaidMarian — on 14th April, 2009 at 5:10 pm  

      Sunny -

      The problem that the Conservatives face with the BNP is that it strikes at the ‘little Englander’/Thatcherite divide.

      Sure, I don’t doubt that many Conservatives dislike immigration - the ‘little Englander’ tendency. But however many of them don’t like immigration, they are by and large all good Thatcherites. The effects of immigration - wage deflation, increased labour market competition, the diminution of unions - are things they all will defend to the death.

      Those who say that the BNP are not a Tory problem are guilty of wishful thinking. This is not to say that they are not also a Labour problem.

      The BNP have, in common with many political writers become obsessed with identity politics. Read their manifesto - it is, to use the image in the poster, a pig in a poke.

      The way to take on the BNP is on the bread-and-butter issues and the brass tacks - the territory they really have nothing to talk about.

      But for as long as the prevailing winds are ‘anti-politics,’ where all politicians are to be assumed as guilty, the BNP will thrive. They have moulded their message carefully to take advantage. Of course, coverage given to the McBride non-story shows what a pragmatic strategy this is.

    27. Billy — on 14th April, 2009 at 5:19 pm  

      Even if the BNP were left-wing, how is it possible to be extreme left-wing and centrist at the same time.

    28. MaidMarian — on 14th April, 2009 at 5:25 pm  

      Billy (27) - When your strategy is do do and say anything to appear ‘on your side.’ It’s possible to take just about any position if you have no spine.

      If you read the BNP manifesto it skates close to what, in old terms, is a redistribution of wealth. Alongside that it promises the Earth to all people.

    29. Jai — on 14th April, 2009 at 5:38 pm  

      Ravi, TCH,

      TCH can’t you see that Munir can’t criticise his Taliban brothers because you are a non-Muslim?

      Munir sounds more like Anjem Choudary every day. Choudary, that charming fellow who likes to publicly refer to OBL as “Sheikh Osama”, is already on record as stating he’s “on the side of Muslims whether they’re oppressed or the oppressors”.

      Munir, are you a member of Al-Muhajiroun (or whatever they’re calling themselves these days), or a supporter of the organisation’s ideology ?

      Would you have the guts to admit this here on PP if this was the case ? I wonder.

    30. The Common Humanist — on 14th April, 2009 at 5:44 pm  

      MaidMarian,
      “Alongside that it promises the Earth to all people”

      Quite.

      In rural S.Yorkshire where my folks live the BN tried to doorstep my Dad. He threatened to set the dogs on them. Anyway, the leaflets there are all about fatcats and little mention of race or immigration.

      P.s. everytime I see your name I can’t help but think of Eddie Izzard doing his Robin Hood skit about actors with American accents:

      “Hello The Maid MaarrIIAaannn”

      That is all.

    31. MaidMarian — on 14th April, 2009 at 5:49 pm  

      TCH - MaidMarian is from the Tony Robinson BBC classic Maid Marian and her Merry Men.

      I was watching it when I registered on CiF and ‘Robin of Kensington’ was too long.

      My parents in Wigan get much the same leaflet - identity politics barely gets a mention up there. The Blackburn version of that leaflet though…..

    32. Jai — on 14th April, 2009 at 5:52 pm  

      Interestingly, yet another example of the BNP’s doublespeak and lies can be found in one of their leaflets that were recently finding their way into people’s front doors in a part of the South-East which doesn’t actually have a particularly large non-white population.

      Along with lots of reasonable-sounding platitudes and their current public adjustments due to political expediency, the giveaway about their real (and unchanged) agenda, perspective, ideas about who & what is British, and their target audience, was a section about “promoting OUR culture” (their capitalisation, not mine) and “no more funding to events like Melas”.

      Says it all, doesn’t it.

    33. Sunny — on 14th April, 2009 at 7:47 pm  

      Even if the BNP were left-wing, how is it possible to be extreme left-wing and centrist at the same time.

      haha!

    34. Roger — on 14th April, 2009 at 8:43 pm  

      “The BNP a ‘left wing centerist party’…….if you said that in a BNP meeting you would be lucky to get out alive.

      They define themselves as Rightwing anyway so trying to argue they are leftwing seems to me bizarre - where is their anti racism, egalitareanism, environmentalism etc etc etc? Industrial policy alone does not make a party leftwing.”

      That shows how unsatisfactory the terms left-wing and right-wing are. Do the B.N.P. definr themselves as right-wing? Don’t they talk about patriotisma nd sommon sense and community and assorted code-words?
      The B.N.P. are a statist and authoritarian party- centrist in that they are centralist- emphasise central-control and with policies given from the top down. Actually they are also egalitarian among people of the right race(s) emphasise the welfare state- for the right people- and their environmental policies have much in common with Green Party policies.

      “I believe that a lot people vote for the BNP as a protest against the political establishment. The BNP exploits people’s fears and resentment for their gain, so why on earth shouldn’t Labour and Conservatives listen to the BNP, and try to get their voters back? ”
      They do not vote for the B.N.P. but to show their dislike of other parties so there isn’t much point in seeing what the B.N.P. are doing that appeals to people when the parties should be seeing what they are doing to put people off.

    35. Andy Gilmour — on 14th April, 2009 at 10:51 pm  

      Sorry, arrived late to this, but want to take issue with ‘atropos’ at #1 when they say:

      “Their principle support is coming from hereditary Labour voters who have finally realised that New Labour has deserted them.”

      Maybe this is the case in some parts of England, but the best evidence on “who votes for the BNP” to date certainly doesn’t support that up here in Scotland.

      After much prodding, the full stats for the 2007 Scottish elections were made available here

      The (pretty crap) version of proportional representation we have up here, with 1st-past-the-post constituencies, but preference regional voting, allows us to cross-reference who BNP regional voters chose when it came to constituencies (BNP couldn’t afford to fight those campaigns, so didn’t put up candidates).

      The long and short of it is that, apart from a couple of blips in Glasgow, where labour candidates got big BNP voter support, across Scotland as a whole the Conservatives gained most BNP support, clear water ahead of the SNP - although in Alec Salmond’s own seat, his main LibDem opponent got more votes from the BNP than he did…so much for the old “SNP are the BNP in kilts” crap.

      I need to get out more…

      :-)

    36. billericaydicky — on 15th April, 2009 at 8:37 am  

      This one has gone off topic faster than most but that is because virtually everyone posting here knows very little about the far right, the people who vote for them and why they do so.

      All political parties are concerned about the rise of the BNP but particularly Labour as it is that party’s vote that Griffin and co have hacked into. Something like a third of all BNP councillors are in the predominantly white working class areas of outer East London and the same is true in other parts of the country. It is Labour which is losing, not the Tories.

      People shouldn’t get too involved in trying to examine and analyse BNP policy as it is made up on the hoof in a totally opportunist manner. Griffin is a political gadfly and sections of the far right have always accused him of being so with much justification.

      One of things that Griffin has been able to do is to make the BNP more than a one issue bunch of racist Jew haters. Of course the core of their ideology is still that but Griffin has been shrewd enough to realise that straight arm salutes and pictures of Hitler don’t go down that well with the general public although it is concerned about immigration, asylum and Jihadis who blow up buses and tubes.

      One thing that the left will never take on board is the fact that thirty years of the race relations industry have prepared the ground for the far right in ways that they could never have done themselves. The sheer anger of ordinary white people on the big housing estates in outer East London and Essex has to be experienced to be believed.

      These people are not natural racists, they just feel themselves to have been discriminated against for years with every new “equality” scheme, or should I say scam, drafted and funded by the loony left around the CRE, Livingstone and dozens of ethnic minority projects which blamed ordinary white people from everything from slavery to the fact that a disproportionately high number of young African Caribbean men were in prison.

      Certainly the BNP would make up non existent issues like the “Africans for Essex” scheme which claimed that Hackney and Tower Hamlets weregiving Africans fifty grand a family to buy ex council houses in Barking and Dagenham. What was happening was that African families would pool resources to buy a house in what was one of the cheapest places in inner London to buy.

      All that locals saw was Africans moving in and their own children unable to get a place to live. Despite a mass canvas and leafleting of the wards they were targeting the AfE myth is now firmly entrenched. People will always believe things that explain the world for them and why things are going wrong and it is usually the simplest explanations which are accepted.

      The anti capitalist rhetoric of the far right has always been there from the earliest days of organised fascism and before. Foriegners were always seen as a fifth column deployed by the state to hold down wages. In the early part of the 19th century there was actually an anti Irish party in Boston which organised riots against the newly arrived immigrants who were taking jobsand driving down wages.

      An early fascist group in East London, the Britsh League of Brothers, targeted Jews and led to the Aliens Act of 1905 the first bit of legislation to restrict immigration.

      One of the mistakes made by the left and most postin here is to equate the concerns of ordinary people with asylum and immigration as racism and to then dismiss anything they have to say. This attitude has delivered thousands of votes to the far right. Myself and others used to cringe every time the caucus of Jasper/Livingston/Abbott/and the rest would make some pronouncemnet on how racist whites were and how they should all apologise for the colour of their skin.

      Thankfully those days are over but a lot of damage has been done and it will be years before it will be reversed. I rathet get the sense from people posting here that they realise that the days of poor old whitey being the scapegoat for everything are over and that they regret that. Get real people, the powers that be have looked at the race industry and the Kieth Vazes
      and Diane Abbotts of the this world and have decided that the BNP is a far more serious threat.

      Let us crunch some numbers. The European elections in
      June present us with a serious threat. The danger areas are the North West, West Midlands and the North East but even in London there is a danger. I was told yesterday by a member of Hackney electoral services that given the different system used in the Euro elections to the one used last year in the Greater London Authority elections if the BNP vote holds upin London they could well get an MEP from the Capital.

      The BNP vote is holding up and the Labour vote going the same way as its membership, into free fall. The BNP can be stoped but people are going to have to get off their backsides and do some work. In Hackney last year we got the vote up by ten point one per cent over 2004 with a massive campaign that targeted markets, tubs and railway stations and saturated housing estates with anti BNP material.

      It can be done and the vote in Hackney went up higher than anywhere else in London. The problem with London is that all of the effort is concentrated in a few areas with most of the south and west not organised. It has to be remembered that it is the total vote that is important and we need 12 anti fascist votes for every one for the BNP to keep them out.

      If anyone wants to contact the campaign to do something in their area then get in touch with http://www.hopenothate.org.uk. and someone will contact you. It will be no good moaning on June the sixth if there are two or three fascists going to Brussels and you will have no one to blame but yourselves. We used to have a saying in boxing “he talks a good fight” and I am afriad there are too many people out there who, when it comes to anti BNP activities, do just that.

    37. MaidMarian — on 15th April, 2009 at 12:08 pm  

      BD - To emphasise I am not getting at you here.

      ‘ordinary white people on the big housing estates in outer East London and Essex’

      Can you please define, ‘ordinary white person,’ and how the people in East London and Essex are qualitatively different from, say, my family in Wigan?

      And why the anger of the people you speak about should be any more of a priority than anyone else’s?

      On a separate thought, ‘People shouldn’t get too involved in trying to examine and analyse BNP policy as it is made up on the hoof in a totally opportunist manner.’ Surely if the BNP strategy is to appear as mainstream and respectable as possible, one way of exposing that image for the fraud that it is is to take them on on policy? Or am I missing something, and policy doesn’t matter any more, just media profile?

      It always surprises me that when there is even the slightest hint of division in Labour or Conservative ranks the press are over it like it is the worst of sins, yet the BNP can make it up as they go along with no type of scrutiny.

    38. damon — on 15th April, 2009 at 12:44 pm  

      ”This one has gone off topic faster than most but that is because virtually everyone posting here knows very little about the far right, the people who vote for them and why they do so.”

      I thought that from billericaydicky was a bit arrogant.
      Surely many of us know what it was like to be a (regular) teenaged London football fan in the late 1970’s.
      Your mates were saturated with NF opinions. (But some of them were black and Asian too). It wasn’t always so straightforward.
      I know of groups of lads (with people born in Burma amonst them) picking on and asaulting foriegn language students from places like France and Italy - back in about 1980. (Just ignorant teenagers in my opinion).

      From billericaydicky:

      ”One thing that the left will never take on board is the fact that thirty years of the race relations industry have prepared the ground for the far right in ways that they could never have done themselves. The sheer anger of ordinary white people on the big housing estates in outer East London and Essex has to be experienced to be believed.”

      I think that the threat from the likes of the BNP in the UK is overblown. So people have peen putting X’s on ballot papers - in secret .. (big deal).
      People read The Sun in public too. But it doesn’t mean that we are about to reintroduce hanging, does it?
      The BNP are whackjobs, and that is widely recognised.
      http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/5124/

    39. Hood — on 15th April, 2009 at 4:00 pm  

      Conservative Party is becoming more and more obsolete .What are they trying to conserve ? Britain is more and more multicultural, international , multiracial ,multireligious,and less and less British. Ordinary people see it ,but Tory politicians do not grasp it - and that is the main reason for third and fourth places in local by-elections.

      And yes - Conservative Party needs to address 2 questions imposed by BNP:

      1. Demographics - do they intend to keep White English majority in England ?

      2. Social politics - do they intend to sacrifice British jobs in order to achieve bigger profits for the so called elite - big international companies?



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