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    Weekend open thread


    by Sunny on 8th April, 2006 at 6:47 pm    

    Say whatever you want, link whatever articles you want… or just waste some time. This is that kind of thread.



    Print this page and comments   |     |   Add to del.icio.us   |   Share on Facebook   |   Filed in: Uncategorized




    122 Comments below   |  

    1. Sunny — on 8th April, 2006 at 6:49 pm  

      I’m going to start by linking an interview of Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks by Ziauddin Sardar in the New Statesman:
      http://www.newstatesman.com/200604100017

      As there is a sort of a reprieve on religion threads *mutters under breath* it is not made into a thread of its own.

    2. sonia — on 8th April, 2006 at 7:30 pm  

      hey cool idea - an open thread. let’s us all rant on stuff we want to without someone nudging us on our irrelevance. actually yesterday i’d been wanting to highlight the GMTV People’s Millions feature, so that people could vote on how Lottery money is spent, but i think the lines are closed now. ah well! should be interesting to see how that went.

    3. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 7:42 pm  

      I just want to know how I can get a ticket for the Villareal-Arsenal away game, which falls on my 40th birthday.
      I can’t manage anything high brow right now. I’m too excited.
      Chillin with the kids and watching Ice Age II is about the right level for me at the mo.
      Or maybe a bit of harmless fun at the expense of foreign branding. Just check out the links on the left hand side on this website!
      Oooh. And wish me luck for my half-marathon tomorrow. Which reminds me — better put that fag out.

    4. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 7:44 pm  

      This is my particular favourite.

    5. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 7:52 pm  

      Say whatever you want,

      yididbadibabab

      blah di blah di balh i ba

    6. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 7:53 pm  

      I just want to know how I can get a ticket for the Villareal-Arsenal away game, which falls on my 40th birthday.

      :o Gunner!!! Long live Chelseaski

    7. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 7:54 pm  

      lets make this into footy thread.

    8. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 7:55 pm  

      The ‘C’ word is not allowed in my house.

    9. Sunny — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:09 pm  

      Clearly this is not going to be a highbrow discussion….

      Apart from partying, I can’t think of anything I do these days that doesn’t involve some sort of mental exhertion. Apart from listening to the ipod and watching desperate hosewives :d

      sonia - how do you think the money should be spent?

      el cid - good luck on the marathon! have u done any practice running today?

    10. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:25 pm  

      half-marathon, and nope. just stuffed myself to a huge bowl of tortellini al pesto. carbo-fuelling i believe is the technical term.

    11. leon — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:30 pm  

      *reads thread with amusment*

    12. Sunny — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:33 pm  

      hey leon! where you been hiding mate??

      El cid - i wish i had one of those icons here with a frowning face and a finger that waves from side to side :)

    13. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:33 pm  

      Oh dear, this is too much!!! I’d forgotten how funny some of these were.
      More chortle fodder: Exhibit A and Exhibit B
      I’m obv 40 going on 13.
      Which reminds me, where’s the Colonel these days?

    14. Jay Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:40 pm  

      I just want to say that I can’t wait for the World Cup to begin and if England don’t win it I don’t want Brazil to win as I usually do as my second team. So I want a second team to support after England if they wont win. So I suppose it better be Nigeria. But then it will probably be Brazil. But I want a Latino team win it apart from Brazil and Argentina for a change - someone like Mexico - I dont want a European team to win, unless it is Holland, who I always love because of the stylishness of their football. So if England dont win, it has to be Holland (or maybe) Brazil.

      Oh the excitement of World Cups!!!!!!!!!!!

    15. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:44 pm  

      That’s easy for me:
      Enger-laaaand Or Espana.
      Sometimes I wish I was half Brazilian, half-Italian or half-German, half Argy.
      Instead I’m lumbered with the two great underachievers.
      While England last one something in 66, Spain won the Euros in 1964 — pathetic. Always the same anti-climax.
      Still, my head actually says England this time.

    16. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:46 pm  

      oops, that’s a BAAAD typo

    17. Jay Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:50 pm  

      Oh God El Cid don’t say that - do you really believe England will do it this time??

    18. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:53 pm  

      Yes I do. Obv our weak link is Eriksson, who is not a great tactician or motivator under pressure.
      But a lot depends on Owen. His injury is a worry because we have no real cover in the striker department.
      We can’t just rely on Owen.
      I fancy an England-Argy final.
      Underestimate Argentina at your peril.

    19. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:54 pm  

      Before you say Rooney — yes, he’s our only truly world class player but he isn’t an out and out striker. We lack depth up front.

    20. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 8:58 pm  

      But there’s a lot still to play for before we get to the WC, not least the CL. C’mon you rip-roaring Gunners!
      (Memo to self: Keep calm, keep calm. Amuse yourself with some more rude food.)

    21. Jay Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:05 pm  

      Steven Gerrard to score the winner in the 83rd minute of the final against Argentina!!!!!!!!!

      2-1 England!!!!

    22. Jay Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:06 pm  

      I reckon Arsenal are going to do it. In a boring 1-0 final.

    23. Vladimir — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:11 pm  

      I agree with El Cid, about the England football team. I also think therer is always to much hype, I do not think England have a chance. For England to win the WC, they’ll need five players on their best ever form, Beckham, Ferdinand Gerrard, Lampard and Ronney and even then it might still be difficult for them to win the WC.

    24. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:11 pm  

      That’ll do for me. But one game at a time. There’s a massive hurdle ahead and his name is Riquelme.

    25. Jay Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:13 pm  

      his name is Riquelme but you have one with the name of Fabregas, El Ci!!

    26. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:20 pm  

      lest not forget Kolo Toure, my favourite player
      fingers-crossed and all that.

    27. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:24 pm  

      El Cid,

      You’ve lost all the respect i had for you. We’ve pwned your arses at Premiership second time in a row.

    28. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:27 pm  

      do you really believe England will do it this time??

      I dont….

    29. Justforfun — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:30 pm  

      Sorry to add to the chat - but I always like to put a face to people.

      Go to this site and select a portrait that you think fits you closest in reality and then pick a portrait that you wish to be in the eyes of others.

      Here is the complete list to choose from
      http://www.pbase.com/bvcuma/portraits&page=all

      I’ll start off -

      http://www.pbase.com/bvcuma/image/21370512
      Not realy like me but he is smiling ;-)

      I have my hair clipped short now because my kids have lice !! and its just easier - but I was once like this at college ! http://www.pbase.com/bvcuma/image/27939003

      Here is the complete list to choose from
      http://www.pbase.com/bvcuma/portraits&page=all

      Justforfun

    30. Sunny — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:31 pm  

      Ha ha! justforfun…

    31. raz — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:32 pm  

      Seeing as we’re on a sports theme:

      Navjot Sidhu vs Geoff Boycott

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0TnWnJLoHE&search=sidhu

    32. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:37 pm  

      WARNING: DO NOT WATCH THE ABOVE VIDEO IF YOU CARE FOR YOUR BRAIN CELLS.

    33. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:41 pm  

      try a fews of these instead:

      http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Great+Indian+Laughter+Challenge&search_type=search_videos&search=Search

      The show is simply gr8 dunno why they dont show it on Indian channels in UK.

    34. Vladimir — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:42 pm  

      That presenter is a bit weird all that blinking.

      Some more sidhuisms here: http://www.setindia.com/max/sidhuisms/galore.htm

    35. raz — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:43 pm  

      Some more immortal words of wisdom from the great man:

      http://stat.wharton.upenn.edu/~kghia/oneliners.html

    36. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:44 pm  

      Some more immortal words of wisdom from the great man.

      Sindhu a great man? C’mon raz r u a Pathan?

    37. El Cid — on 8th April, 2006 at 9:56 pm  

      You’ve lost all the respect i had for you. We’ve pwned your arses at Premiership second time in a row.

      You can’t buy respect Vikki Viks — and less so with Russian mafia money. I have even heard Scousers wavering over who they dislike more — Man U or …..
      I also don’t think that your average ….. fan is your cup of tea. They are a notoriously uncouth and racist bunch. Anyway, being an athlete n all, I shall now retire.

    38. Jai — on 8th April, 2006 at 10:18 pm  

      Since this is a random thread…..

      Who saw “Hustle” last week — the one about conning that Bollywood fan ? Great fun, even if the final song & dance sequence was a little corny. Watching the characters boogeying around in Asian clothes raised a smile (even Robert Vaughn, or “Dev Anand” as my father calls him, got into the spirit of things with his designer kurta etc). And Asian clothes seem to really suit Jaime Murray, especially that green salwaar-kameez she wore at the beginning. It even had a dupatta ;)

      Indian theme on TV number 2: This week’s “House”. More amusing stuff involving his statements in Hindi, especially when he kept saying “Teri Ma Ki” (an in-joke that only the Asian viewers would get, I bet).

    39. StrangelyPsychedelique/Kesara — on 8th April, 2006 at 10:27 pm  

      http://politics.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,1749555,00.html

      BNP in turmoil as members row about ‘ethnic’ candidate

      Selection of Sharif Gawad provokes uproar among ‘whites-only’ hardcore

      The British National party was riven last night over its decision to select the grandson of an asylum seeker to fight a seat in next month’s local elections.

      Sharif Abdel Gawad, whom the BNP describes as a “totally assimilated Greek-Armenian”, was chosen to stand in a Bradford ward as part of the party’s biggest ever electoral push.

      The decision has provoked a backlash among BNP hardliners who described Mr Gawad as an “ethnic” who should be barred from the party on race grounds.

    40. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 10:33 pm  

      Lool Scousers those freakin losers they wont even have Won Champions League hadnt it been for a buffoon of a refree. I was there at that match. Man had a blast exchanging pighty insults with those cheating scousey pussies. That day is etched in my memory. They were singing “You’ll never walk alone” and we were shouting “You aint famous anymore”. Then the scoucies started braying “Who the heck are you…” then we roared “We? We are the champions”. Its for moments like these that
      you go to a footy match.

      As for racism, i daresay its frequency more or less same for all clubs. And as for our behaivour, you speak as if Gunners dont get drunk and choke the escalators on the tube the day Arsenal play. You guys are just jealous.

    41. Bikhair — on 8th April, 2006 at 10:50 pm  

      I dont want to bring down the gayness of all this football talk but I would like for you guys to research the life expectancy for those living in sub-saharan Africa. When you do, be thankful for what you have and try to give a little.

    42. Vikrant Singh — on 8th April, 2006 at 11:05 pm  

      When you do, be thankful for what you have and try to give a little.

      Naah… i’m your self-centric, hedonistic and stingy Asian teen,

    43. Bikhair — on 8th April, 2006 at 11:37 pm  

      Vikrant,

      “Naah… i’m your self-centric, hedonistic and stingy Asian teen”

      Well, lets hope there isnt any ugly to go with that stupid.

    44. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:16 am  

      Ohhh…. chica just say it, you are ineterested in knowing how i look. But mindya i make it a point never to date Wahabis.

    45. Rezwan — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:24 am  

      Playboy Indonesia launched.

      Guess what the cover may look like before clicking the link.

    46. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:38 am  

      Are you the same Rezwan from Jihadwatch?

    47. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:39 am  

      muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

      I occupy 70% space on Latest comments. Now only if they gave a prize for it.

    48. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:40 am  

      Oh shit i’m addicted to PP. HEEEELLLLLLLPPPPPPP

    49. douglas — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:51 am  

      I think ‘Bend it like Beckham’ was pretty aspirational and a good thing.
      I just know there will be posts about naffness, but if you look beyond that it was damned good. Was it not?

      Anyway, I thought the asian was by far the most attractive person.

      What say you?

    50. Pocahontas — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:51 am  

      Chelsea ROCKS!!!

      Thank you all.

    51. douglas — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:55 am  

      I think ‘Bend it like Beckham’ was pretty aspirational and a good thing.
      I just know there will be posts about naffness, but if you look beyond that it was damned good. Was it not?

      Anyway, I thought the asian was by far the most attractive person.

      What say you? On dress down weekend.

    52. leon — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:56 am  

      “hey leon! where you been hiding mate??”

      Yo yo yo! I’ve been snowed under a fuck off sized work load, aint had much online time…:(

    53. matt — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:58 am  

      Hi.

      I’m a long(ish) time reader, first time commenter (commentator… comment-maker…?).

      Great site.

      Just thought I’d mention it.

    54. Jay Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 1:02 am  

      Hey Matt good to see you mate!

    55. matt — on 9th April, 2006 at 1:06 am  

      Thanks.

    56. Jay Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 1:27 am  

      We’re rich!! Woohoo!!

      ++++++++++
      THE wealth of Britain’s richest 300 Asians has jumped by more than 40% in a year, writes Abul Taher.
      The research, compiled by Philip Beresford, author of The Sunday Times Rich List, finds their total wealth has gone from £24.9 billion to £35.5 billion, an increase of 42%, boosted by strong stock markets and the community’s links with the booming Asian economies.

      The list, published next week by Sunrise Radio, also shows that the number of billionaire entries has doubled to four.

      Those with 10-figure fortunes include Anil Agarwal, 53, a former scrap metal merchant. Agarwal, who lives in a £20m house in Mayfair, central London, is the fourth richest Asian and heads the mining company Vedanta Resources.

      +++++++

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2125385,00.html

    57. Jay Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 1:29 am  

      Man, in that list of the richest Asians in Britain is a 34 year old British Indian dude worth £1.7 BILLION

      Damn.

    58. jamal — on 9th April, 2006 at 1:30 am  

      This is a good article I found today.

      If anyone read the recent transcript of Wafa Sultans interview, this article refutes the majority of her speech, point for point.

      Wafa Sultan’s Lies Refuted

    59. leon — on 9th April, 2006 at 1:54 am  

      Indeed welcome Matt hope to see you comment on here often as you have an impressive profile:

      “Frequent contributor at OpenDemocracy. Member of Amnesty International. Humanist. English Graduate. General all-round decent kinda guy.”

      Should make for some interesting thoughts!:)

    60. Bikhair — on 9th April, 2006 at 3:51 am  

      Pickled Pathogens,

      I’ve been thinking (No jokes please). Can we all agree that both the right and the left in West Europe and North America are some very evil and disingenuous people? I mean think about it. One side wants civil war in Iraq (liberals) the other side wants civil war it Europe (conservatives). Do any of them care that peoples lives, I mean real lives, of men, women and children are at stake? It appears to me that these people only want their political views to triumph regardless of if it leaves behind a trail of innocent bodies.

    61. Bikhair — on 9th April, 2006 at 3:54 am  

      Douglas,

      “I think ‘Bend it like Beckham’ was pretty aspirational and a good thing.
      I just know there will be posts about naffness, but if you look beyond that it was damned good. Was it not?”

      I hated that movie especially after I heard that the British Indian community had a collective fit when that Asian chick went accross the pond and hooked up with that Nig… I mean.. black guy.

      Why is it so cool to break with tradition and get seduced by a white boy anyway? Do I hear inferiority complex?

    62. Sunny — on 9th April, 2006 at 4:14 am  

      douglas - Parminder nagra is indeed very hot. More so in real life.

      Hey Matt, good to have you on here mate! I’m sure I met you once at a BBC News anniversary party…

      Kesara - I saw that… but to be honest that story is about two weeks old. I monitor the Stormfront website quite regularly.. and I’ve seen the hilarious arguments going on there about this guy.

    63. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 10:23 am  

      jamal,

      Wafa Sultan is a courgaeous woman to day the things she did being a Saudi Arabian woman. May b be Bikki could take a cue.

    64. Sid D H Arthur — on 9th April, 2006 at 12:59 pm  

      I don’t know whether this is stupid or just stupidly over-indulgent.

    65. matt — on 9th April, 2006 at 1:23 pm  

      Leon

      Should make for some interesting thoughts!:)

      Ha. Don’t let the self-aggrandisement fool you. I generally specialise in ill thought-out, uninformed and poorly written comments on subjects I really know nothing about.

      So, interesting… perhaps. :)

      Sunny,

      I don’t think I’ve ever been to such a thing, but thanks for the welcome nonetheless.

    66. Jay Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:01 pm  

      I generally specialise in ill thought-out, uninformed and poorly written comments on subjects I really know nothing about.

      You’ll feel right at home here then matt ;-)

    67. Jai — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:08 pm  

      Lol at comment #66 :)

      Nobody here saw those episodes of “Hustle” or “House” ?

      The Man From Uncle in a natty cream kurta with a red traditional-style waistcoat ?

      Hugh Laurie smirkingly subjecting unsuspecting targets to verbal abuse in Hindi ?

    68. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:10 pm  

      Nobody here saw those episodes of “Hustle” or “House” ?

      What channels ae they on…. i only watch “Simpsons” and “South Park”

    69. Jai — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:12 pm  

      Hustle is on BBC1 on Friday nights.
      House is on Channel 5 on Thursday nights.

    70. raz — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:14 pm  

      Chelsea win 4-1 :)

    71. Jai — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:19 pm  

      Raz buddy I answered your question about Sikhism and Shia Islam on the “British Sikhs Conference” thread yesterday — just in case you missed it. Apologies for the delay in replying.

    72. raz — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:37 pm  

      Thanks Jai :) Very interesting about the sword, I’ve never heard that before.. As a matter of interest, i’ve often heard about Hindus in India, joining in with our Ashura processions during Muharram and mourning Imam Husseins sacrifice at Karbala.

    73. Jay Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:46 pm  

      raz

      Those are the Husseini Brahmins of Punjab who the legend goes fought with Ali at Karbala. The Dutt family from Bollywood are of this clan. Sanjay Dutt and his father the late Sunil Dutt. They are Hindus who respect the shia faith.

    74. Jay Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:49 pm  

      I think that Hussaini Brahmins believe that Ali was an incarnation of Vishnu and they even did / do puja in the direction of Karbala.

    75. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 2:52 pm  

      i’ve often heard about Hindus in India, joining in with our Ashura processions during Muharram and mourning Imam Husseins sacrifice at Karbala.

      AFAIK many Hindus in Western and Southern India do participate in Muharram processions mainly becoz, Hindus regularly visit Shia dragahs. Hinduism is afterall a “freestyle” philosophy.

      P.S Yaay Chelsea won…. Hammed the West Hammers…. Cid did u see that… gunners wont get their filthy hands on the Premiership tis year atleast.

    76. El Cid — on 9th April, 2006 at 3:38 pm  

      Pick a fight with me, will you?
      My hatred of Chelski runs much more deeply than you imagine. You are a lickle fool bwai Vik who has just jumped on a billionaire’s backwagon. Your team has no history, no class and is headed by a villain. Whatever you do while Roman is there is irrelevent as far as I am concerned.
      P.S.
      Fans from which team on the same plane back as the England team sang “there ain’t no black in the Union Jack” after John Barnes’ wonder goal? But then Hinduism and Nazism have something in common — the swastika. So I can see why you are attracted to them, you ignorant spotty masturbating geek. As if Liverpool fans celebrating their fifth European Cup win would give a fuck what you said, you deluded runt. I don’t support Liverpool, but I recognise a genuine football team when I see one. I would even say that about Spurs and Man Utd.
      Sunny, don’t worry, I won’t be responding to whatever the twerp comes back with. I’ve said my piece, for everyone to see.

    77. Sunny — on 9th April, 2006 at 3:59 pm  

      Lol, calm down El Cid, its only a commercial

      By the way: “But then Hinduism and Nazism have something in common — the swastika”

      Well, Hitler appropriated the Swastika from Hindus… they had it for much much longer.

    78. raz — on 9th April, 2006 at 4:08 pm  

      “But then Hinduism and Nazism have something in common — the swastika. So I can see why you are attracted to them, you ignorant spotty masturbating geek”

      Whoa, that got a bit nasty! It’s only a game, you know ;)

    79. Robert — on 9th April, 2006 at 4:28 pm  

      There’s a lot to be said for the similarities between Football supporting and nationalism, I think. The same blind patriotism that remembers all the good times and successes, and forgets the bitter failures and shameful episodes.

      Who is a true supporter? Can you change your allegiance, or will you always be an outsider? Do different teams have specific characters? Or are they all, really, at the end of the day, pretty much the same?

    80. Bikhair — on 9th April, 2006 at 4:51 pm  

      Vikrant,

      Ayesha and Khadijah were curegeous women. I need to take a cue from them.

    81. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 5:15 pm  

      You are a lickle fool bwai Vik who has just jumped on a billionaire’s backwagon. Your team has no history, no class and is headed by a villain. Whatever you do while Roman is there is irrelevent as far as I am concerned.

      Doesnt matter as long as we pwn your asses.

    82. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 5:17 pm  

      Buddhists use swastika too you drunk spaniard.

    83. Jay Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 5:20 pm  

      Vikrant, grow up.

    84. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 5:24 pm  

      gooo gaaa gooo gaaa

    85. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 5:49 pm  

      Sunny c’mon u dleted m comment (ok ok that jibe at Bikki may have been a bit unPC but what i sed to El Cid holds).

      El Cid stop acting like a touchy bum boil.

    86. El Cid — on 9th April, 2006 at 6:36 pm  

      Apologies to non-chelsea supporting hindus everywhere.
      Robert: If only it were so simple. It may sound like a neat analogy at a crusty dinner party but in the big wide world, it it isn’t a good fit.
      Remembering the bitter failures and shameful episodes is actually key to being a true supporter. As for your other questions: No,no, yes, no.

    87. Don — on 9th April, 2006 at 7:14 pm  

      Do you guys realise how annoying you’re being? Not to mention screwing up a Sunday evening blog for everyone else.

    88. El Cid — on 9th April, 2006 at 7:32 pm  

      Yes, I must confess I do Don. So I’ll stop.
      However, I don’t see you contributing much. I mean a thread and subsequent comments don’t write themselves, now do they?
      One thing is for sure: Sunny might think twice before encouraging another free for all.
      2hrs 14 minutes was my time btw Sunny.

    89. Sunny — on 9th April, 2006 at 7:59 pm  

      Or maybe I’ll make it clear on my next open thread that any discussion of footy is strictly forbidden :)

    90. Vikrant Singh — on 9th April, 2006 at 8:15 pm  

      lol El C, *truce*

      btw dude, how did ur marathon thingy go?

    91. Rezwan — on 10th April, 2006 at 12:49 am  

      Hi Vikrant,

      I hope you follow links. Because I leave my footmarks unlike you.

    92. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 10:46 am  

      What a cryptic comment.

    93. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 11:06 am  

      i think i get it… Rezwan man it seems you’ve recently moved to germany…

    94. Jai — on 10th April, 2006 at 11:18 am  

      Raz & Jay Singh,

      Fascinating reading about the Husseini Brahmins — I had no idea about any of that. I wonder if Ali was aware that they thought of him as an incarnation of Vishnu when they were fighting alongside him, or if this is actually something that developed in the centuries that followed.

      Maybe they just thought of him as a saintly figure but the perceived Vishnu-connection arose much later on.

      Great anecdote though Jay, thanks for that. Yet another enlightening experience on PP ;)

    95. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 11:39 am  

      Here is a longer article on the Hussaini Brahmins

      http://www.svabhinava.org/MeccaBenares/YoginderSikand/HusainiBrahmins-frame.htm

    96. Sid Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 11:59 am  

      I concur with Jai, excellent stuff. thanks for links Jay.

    97. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 12:11 pm  

      Well i’m reading “White Mughals” by William Dalrymple, therein the author gives a quite vivid description of British affair with India and especially the Shia-Hindu confluence.

    98. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 12:12 pm  

      Lol 5 “Singhs”….

    99. Refresh Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 2:55 pm  

      Salam

      Fascinating about the Husaini Brahmins. The author’s point about negative trends of demarcation between communities is well made.

      Sat Sri Akal

    100. Jai — on 10th April, 2006 at 3:00 pm  

      Jay Singh — thanks for that link, yet more eye-opening reading. Interesting that the Islamic connection in that part of India (at least w.r.t Husseini Brahmins) pre-dates the Delhi Sultans & the Mughals by several centuries, right back to the time of some of Islam’s earliest founders. I had no idea about any of that either.

      Speaking of cross-community historical incidents, here’s another interesting anecdote. It involves a British commander of a Sikh battalion during the Second World War who apparently had a vision of Guru Gobind Singh when they were about to be slaughtered by the Germans, although it was only after he described the Guru’s physical appearance to one of his officers that he found out who their mysterious benefactor was. The Guru told him to follow in a certain direction as they were surrounded on all sides, and it was only by doing so that they managed to save themselves. The commander found it a stunning experience and later formally adopted Sikhism because of it.

      I’ve come across that story quite a few times, and it includes the name of the commander involved too. Quite an amazing story if it’s true.

      Here’s a link detailing what happened:

      http://www.sikhlink.com/sikh/miracle2.htm

    101. raz — on 10th April, 2006 at 4:08 pm  

      “Interesting that the Islamic connection in that part of India (at least w.r.t Husseini Brahmins) pre-dates the Delhi Sultans & the Mughals by several centuries”

      Jai, just out of interest, my own family arrived in the Indian town of Sonepat as part of a community of migrating Shias from Iraq - this was around 767 A.D. They lived there more than a thousand years before leaving at partition. Interestingly, the tomb of the leader of the original settlers, Imam Nasiruddin, is looked after by a Hindu priest. That Shia community has all moved to Pakistan now, but to this day, the local Hindus hold a commemeration for him every year, as was ordered by the priest at the time of his death. Amazing. If I ever visit India, I am defintely going to try and visit his shrine.

    102. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 4:21 pm  

      community of migrating Shias from Iraq - this was around 767 A.D.

      Really, i’m interested… i mean like do you have actual family trees? i tried tracing mine, but turns up nothing after 5 generations.

    103. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 4:22 pm  

      Isnt Sonepat in Haryana, oye raz is a Haryanvi Jat. Run.

    104. raz — on 10th April, 2006 at 4:33 pm  

      Vikrant, I have a family tree going back something like 1300 years. My family in Pakistan sent us a copy of this a while back, my father has it stored away somewhere.

    105. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 4:37 pm  

      So what do you consider your primary ethnicity to be Punjabi/Rajput/Iraqi/Jat ?

    106. Jai — on 10th April, 2006 at 5:44 pm  

      Raz, that’s amazing. It’s always interesting to read up on one’s family history isn’t it, especially if one can trace it back centuries (or even millennia). I knew there was some level of Muslim influx into India hundreds of years before any “mass” contact (eg. trade with Arabs in Gujarat etc), but it’s great that you have such detailed knowledge of your own family’s “story”. What you said about the shrine in Sonepat was also remarkable — and yes, you should definitely try to visit it sometime if you get the chance. I’m sure it would be quite an emotional experience for you — one of life’s milestones, I guess.

      Gurinder Chadha’s episode of “Who Do You Think You Are” a couple of months ago was fascinating to watch too — and she managed to trace her own family tree back not only to some soldiers in Maharajah Ranjit Singh’s army but even further, all the way to Pakistan and some village from the time of Alexander the Great.

    107. raz — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:04 pm  

      Vikrant,

      I’m not really big on caste/ethnicity, but technically I’m a ’syed’ i.e descended from the family of the Prophet Mohammed. Some people make a big deal out of this, but I’m not really into that. It’s nice to know your past though.

      Jai,

      With the thawing in relations between India and Pakistan, I may well make a visit there at some point in future. As far as I know, all the Shias are gone from there now, but the Hindu’s are still looking after the shrine.Seeing as we’re on this subject, I recommend you try and visit Lahore sometime, and see Guru Nanak’s shrine. The girls are nice too ;)

      On the subject of Alexander the great, there are some small tribes of people living in Northern Pakistan who are apparently descendents of his armies. Pakistan actually has very rich and diverse history, which is unknown to many people.

    108. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:07 pm  

      raz

      The Gurdwara in Lahore is related to one of the other Guru’s I believe. It is Nankana Sahib and Panja Sahib at Hasan Abdal near Wah that are the two important gurdwaras in Pakistan related to Guru Nanak.

      There are lots of sufi dargahs and shia shrines looked after by Nihang Sikhs in Indian Punjab too - in my ancestral village there is a sufi dargah visited by Sikhs and Hindus who treat it as if it was their own religious shrine.

    109. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:09 pm  

      If Sid is reading this - apparently there is a Gurdwara in Dhaka, Bangladesh too which is at the place where Guru Nanak stayed 500 years ago when he visited Bengal on his journeys.

    110. raz — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:16 pm  

      Jay, yeah I was thinking of the Nankana Sahib (previously Talwandi) which is actually about 50 miles from Lahore. Do you know anything about who looks after it? Are there any special procdeures for looking after a Sikh holy place? I have advocated before that if this is the case, Indian Sikhs could be asked to come across and help train locals in the correct methods.

    111. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:30 pm  

      raz

      The Sikhs of Talwandi who number a couple of thousand basically look after it - there is a commitee called SGPC based in Amritsar who are like the Vatican for Sikhs in India and have jurisdiction over gurdwaras in India - however Pakistan has its own commitee which used to be led by Javed Nasir. I dont want to get into politcs but there is some politics going on there and ex militancy links etc. However, with the new bus service and train service from Amritsar to Lahore/Nankana Sahib that is all behind us.

      I have said it before - Pakistan will bring in a hell of a lot of tourist money when free movement across the borders means Sikhs can visit Lahore/Nankana Sahib and other historical and religious sites and there will be a gradual influx of Hindus visiting the temples in ketas and Sindh too. That is the best way to ensure on a human level peace and understanding between India & Pakistan. As well as people from Punjab wanting to visit Lahore as a holiday destination, shopping, museums, shared heritage etc etc

      I believe that the West Punjab government is going to allow some NRI Sikhs to invest in Talwandi to help build the infrastructure there to help accomodate pilgrims.

    112. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:36 pm  

      This is an article about how the Nihang Sikhs look after Guru ki Masjid in Punjab, which was built by Guru Hargobind,. the sixth Sikh Guru, for the Muslims of his town. Even though the Muslim Wakf board has jurisdiction, the Muslims want Nihangs to remain the custodians and protectors of the mosque (they view it as their sacred duty to protect and upkeep the masjid)

      http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010224/windows/main1.htm

    113. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:41 pm  

      Well dont Pakistani Sikhs look after Nanak Sahib

    114. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:43 pm  

      Yeah, that’s what I said Vikrant

    115. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 6:59 pm  

      With all due respects Raz, i’ve read that many so-called “syed”s have concocted family history.

    116. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 7:02 pm  

      Jay,

      Re:SGPC

      I’m just reading KPS Gill’s “Knights of Falsehood”
      He calls SGPC as weak-minded old fools.

    117. Jay Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 7:20 pm  

      They are like all priesthoods and religious establishments full of faults.

    118. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 7:31 pm  

      As for his book, Jay what is K.P.S Gill’s legacy vis-a-vis for todays Sikhs. I’ve been reading about him from both sides. One side lionises him, while other side protrays him in league with Hitler and Stalin. One things fer sure, that guy has presided over death of Indian hockey.

    119. raz — on 10th April, 2006 at 8:06 pm  

      “With all due respects Raz, i’ve read that many so-called “syed”s have concocted family history”

      No doubt there are many fake syeds. As I said, I’m not bothered if anyone is a syed or not. Caste means nothing to me. However, I do have a researched family tree which I have seen going back all this time - it is much more important to me in the context of understanding my own family background (e.g. in relation to Sonepat) rather than claiming any direct link to the Prophet, which is presumably the reason why people make these fake claims.

    120. Vikrant Singh — on 10th April, 2006 at 9:08 pm  

      Well i’m not into casteist jingoism, but caste is your ethnicity.

    121. Jai — on 11th April, 2006 at 12:02 pm  

      Another excellent link by Jay Singh — thanks for that, buddy.

      Raz,

      =>”I recommend you try and visit Lahore sometime……The girls are nice too”

      I think we’ve definitely established beyond any doubt that there are some jaw-droppingly beautiful women in Pakistan, as confirmed by the various links you’ve previously supplied, plus what I’ve seen on TV with regards to Pakistani music videos, fashion shows etc ;)

      Anyway, on a more serious note, you may or may not be aware that the foundation stone of the Golden Temple (proper name “Harmandir Sahib”) in Amritsar was actually laid by a Sufi saint from Lahore called Mian Mir, upon the invitation of Guru Arjan. Here is a superb link summarising his life and his connection to the Sikhs:

      http://allaboutsikhs.com/bhagats/mianmir.htm

    122. Jay Singh — on 12th April, 2006 at 8:14 pm  

      Interesting news in light of the discussion we are having about Sikh-Shia relations:

      +++++++++++

      Fired by their zeal to repay a debt to the Sikhs, India’s Shia community has embarked upon a mission to construct a Sikh shrine at Basra in Iraq in the honour of Sikhism founder and first Sikh Guru, Guru Nanak.

      Maulana Kalbe Jawad, India’s spiritual head of the Shia community, has decided to lead a delegation of prominent Shia leaders to Iraq to persuade Ayatollah Ali Shistani, the supreme authority of the Shia community the world over, to allow construction of the Sikh shrine at Basra near Baghdad.

      Zaheer Zaidi, president of the capital-based Husan Ara Trust, said the Shias had never forgotten the great service done by the Sikhs in handing over the shrine of the Eighth Imam at Samana, near Patiala, to them.

      “Through this gracious act, the Punjab government has set an example of communal amity and now it is our turn to repay them by pooling our efforts for constructing a Sikh shrine in Iraq,” he said.

      As per historical accounts, the Shia community has been blessed with 12 Imams, all of whom trace their ancestry to the Holy Prophet’s family.

      The 8th Imam came to India where he died later. A shrine was built in his memory at Samara, but it fell into disuse after the Shias migrated to Pakistan in the wake of partition.

      When the Punjab government was apprised by a scholar of the callous neglect of the shrine, it renovated the entire structure at a cost of Rs 32 lakh, and later handed it over the shrine to the Shia community.

      “The shrine has now emerged as a pilgrimage centre for the Shia community all over the world. During last few days, over two lakh people visited there to pay their obeisance to the 8th Imam,” Zaidi said.

      He also informed that on April 23, the Shias would observe Urs at the shrine. Congress MP Rahul Gandhi is expected to participate in the event.

      Maulana Zawad, who was recently in the capital, held talks with Zaidi and the US-based Islamic propagator Tehzeeb Zaidi, in this connection.

      It was later decided to construct a Gurdwara in Iraq.

      A delegation of Shia leaders would visit Najaf in Iraq soon to hold talks with the Ayatollah Shsitani to seek his permission for constructing the Sikh shrine, Zaidi said.

      Maulana Zawad, also the Chancellor of the Lucknow-based Madrastul Waezeen and Imam-e-Juma there, had written a letter to Zaidi, saying efforts for constructing a Sikh Gurdwara in Iraq should be launched without any delay.

      “Our Sikh brothers near the tomb of Bahlol Dara at Baghdad will consider the proposal positively. This will also be a part of the birthday celebrations of Prophet Mohammad,” he wrote in his letter.

      http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1673312,0008.htm

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