Sikhs as bad as Irish


by Sunny
24th March, 2006 at 6:07 pm    

In drinking excessive amounts of alcohol that is. The British Medical Journal reports:

34% of Irish men drink above the weekly recommended limit of 21 units of alcohol, compared with 29% of the general Irish population and 27% of the general British population. A similar problem exists in south Asian (Sikh) male migrants to the UK, where problem drinking is higher than in the Sikh population in South Asia and similar to that of the UK general population.

If anyone has access to the full article, please post it or email it to me.


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27 Comments below   |  

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  1. raz — on 24th March, 2006 at 6:12 pm  

    It’s not good drinking too much. You might end up getting Sikh.

    (terrible joke, shoot me someone, please)

  2. Kulvinder — on 24th March, 2006 at 6:19 pm  

    i laughed

  3. Kulvinder — on 24th March, 2006 at 6:21 pm  

    :)

  4. Sunny — on 24th March, 2006 at 6:35 pm  

    *takes out shotgun*
    sorry it had to end this way raz…

  5. Rohin — on 24th March, 2006 at 6:53 pm  

    Don’t worry Raz, he’s too pissed to aim that shotgun straight.

  6. squared — on 24th March, 2006 at 7:08 pm  

    :D @ raz…

    So bad it was funny. :)

  7. Sid D H Arthur — on 24th March, 2006 at 7:28 pm  

    The first time I got horribly, frightfully stinkingly drunk was at my best friend’s sister’s wedding. There I saw his usually staid, respectable uncle of his face, half naked and balancing a bottle of Johnny Walker Red Label on his head. Sat Sree Akal!!

  8. Jay Singh — on 24th March, 2006 at 8:36 pm  

    It’s a problem. Drinking is glorified in Punjabi culture – listen to all the bhangra songs – half of them are about getting wasted with your mates.

    Punjabis are big time drinkers.

  9. Jay Singh — on 24th March, 2006 at 8:39 pm  

    Doesnt Rohin have access to the article – you’re a doctor aint ya?

  10. Jay Singh — on 24th March, 2006 at 8:41 pm  

    At least Sikhs are integrating well in alcohol consumption :-)

  11. Jay Singh — on 24th March, 2006 at 8:46 pm  

    Also note that the problem is not excessive of the national average, it is similar to it. Just notable in the context of being Asian, where the rest of them mostly drink ribena and lassi and are no fun.

  12. Jay Singh — on 24th March, 2006 at 8:47 pm  

    The last comment was a joke btw. Drinking lassi can be fun.

  13. seanT — on 24th March, 2006 at 9:43 pm  

    [Jay, posted this on the other thread too; just wanted to make sure you saw it...]

    Call me an old softy, but I object – Jay Singh – to being referred to as a ’shovel load of shit’, or even talking the same.

    Here, to reiterate, is a post I made on HP which most comprehensively sums up my position on Ellis/IQ etc. If you still think I am a ’shovel load of shit’ after reading it, fair enough!

    BTW the post is in reply to a comment made by Luniversal. who, whatever you think of him, is not unsmart. And therefore needs rebutting.

    Viz:

    “Luni. Heh. You may have some nutty views, but I do admire your articulacy sometimes – and I would also admire your candour. That is, if you didn’t bloody comment ANONYMOUSLY.

    I post in my own name, unlike you, you invertebrate. Therefore it makes more sense for me to be circumspect on contentious issues. Cause I don’t want to get harrassed and killed by the attack dogs of the Left, who have destroyed people on this issue – IQ.

    But actually – whether you choose to believe me or not – I really am in the painful middle on this issue. Like you, I have read the data, on both sides. Jensen and Gould, Eysenck and Lewontin, Rushton and Rose. Like you, I find the Darwinian/evolutionary psychology side simply more convicing. Unlike you, I do not find it wholly convincing. The Flynn Effect has no bearing on race, of course – but to me it does throw the whole IQ system into doubt. Can it really be true that IQs have risen by 30 points (or whatever) in thirty years? I simply don’t believe it. Therefore that seems – to me – to centrally undermine the tests themselves. What the hell are IQ tests testing, if the results can be so labile?

    However, there is still so much hard data on the other side – what you call the ‘race realist’ side – and some would call the ‘racist’ side – that I remain conflicted. Racial skull size difference exists, for instance. Gould tried to pretend it didn’t. But it does.

    But actually ‘racial skull size differentials’ are a good case for my final point. What does the average sensible person think when they hear a scientist say ‘racial skull size differentials’ – they think, fuck, here’s a Nazi. And quite right too.

    Unlike you, I don’t think we can ignore the terrible usage that ‘race science’ has been put to in the past, by the most evil men to walk the globe. I am pretty fucking religious, I believe in the sacredness of man, the individual and indivisible worth of every human soul, therefore I am pained by science that does – on an emotional level – seem to devalue people by category and race. Moreover, we live in a multiracial and globalising world, and simply barking out the data is not good for anyone. Yes, I used to enjoy rehearsing the data, cause it wound up lefties (whose havering on Free Speech I despise) – now I’m not so sure.

    Ultimately, however, I think we must be allowed to rehearse and investigate these issues, not least because one day – if we let them – geneticists might come up with some science that finds the genes for intelligence and then we can all, black white yellow or tartan, be as smart as Sir Clive, or you. For that reason alone it depresses me to see academics hounded on this issue.

    And that’s my apologia. I keep trying to shut the F up about IQ. But it keeps recrudescing. Perhaps it is one of those litmus issues of the day.”

    There. Feel free to compare me to buckets of ordure now, if you wish. But I needed to get that across.

    Pip pip!

  14. Jay Singh — on 24th March, 2006 at 9:49 pm  

    OK sean – thanks, I read it. You don’t have to worry about what I say or think about you.

  15. seanT — on 24th March, 2006 at 9:55 pm  

    But the trouble is I do worry, Jay. I am aware that these subjects risk making me sound like a fucker. And I’m not. Or at least, I’m a fucker with a conscience. So I care what people think.

    The trouble is I have written several articles on this subject – IQ and race – and have therefore read virtually every book on the matter. So I know there is some evidence for genetic IQ difference. Yet I also – believe it or not – am disgusted by racism even as I know everyone is in some way racist (including me).

    Hence my deep moral confusion. And my endless and agonised postings on the issue. I am trying to reconcile two mutually exclusive ‘truths’ in my mind – that there may be genetic differences between races, even as I despise those who would play upon such differences to drive us apart.

    There ya go, anyway. That’s my tricky position.Probably easier not to think about the whole thing in the first place – as most sensible people do…

  16. Jay Singh — on 24th March, 2006 at 10:17 pm  

    sean

    I appreciate that. My sincere advice: save all this energy for your novels. You will mine contradictions that will take your writing beyond the normal antiseptic crap. Seriously, work out your issues on the page – they will bring an agony and honesty to your work that otherwise gets sublimated. That is what being a writer is all about, right? Being honest, flaws and warts and all?

    I just think it misfires when you go at it hammer and tongs online mate. Especially on subjects like this.

  17. Vladimir — on 24th March, 2006 at 10:39 pm  

    Alcohol misuse and ethnicity
    Hidden populations need specific services—and more research

    The development and implementation of clinically effective interventions for alcohol misuse remains a priority for developed countries with high levels of harmful alcohol consumption.w1 Such interventions rely on individuals recognising that they need help and then seeking it, but ethnic minorities may have particular problems with alcohol use yet may be constrained from seeking help.

    In the United Kingdom several ethnic minorities have higher levels of alcohol use and resulting health problems than the general population. For example, 34% of Irish men drink above the weekly recommended limit of 21 units of alcohol,w2 compared with 29% of the general Irish population and 27% of the general British population. A similar problem exists in south Asian (Sikh) male migrants to the UK, where problem drinking is higher than in the Sikh population in South Asia and similar to that of the UK general population.w3 Irish and Sikh groups in the UK also have higher rates of morbidity and mortality than the general population.w4 In the United States, similar patterns have been observed in Hispanic men, whose prevalence of alcohol misuse has remained static while it has fallen among white (non-Irish) men, and whose prevalence of alcohol related health problems has more than doubled over 10 years.w5

    Both alcohol misuse and ethnicity are bound to social disadvantage. In the United Kingdom the clustering of first generation Irish people in areas of socioeconomic deprivation may explain their higher prevalence of alcohol use.w6 A similar observation has been noted in Mexican Indians in the United States. They have higher rates of alcohol dependence and misuse than other Mexicans in the US, but these differences disappear when adjusted for socioeconomic factors.w7

    Considerable stigma surrounds alcohol misuse in minority ethnic groups. This is particularly so for Asian communities in the UK, where people from an older generation are unwilling to recognise alcohol misuse within their communities. The second generation may share this view and perceive their actions as reflecting on the behaviour of the whole family. As a result people with alcohol problems may try to cope on their own rather than use local alcohol services.w8 Moreover, they may be unaware of alcohol services.w9 A different set of influences may operate in Irish communities, where perceived negative stereotyping from health professionals might explain the low rates of primary care consultation for alcohol related problems.w10

    In turn health providers may avoid developing services for ethnic minorities at greatest risk of alcohol misuse for fear of being seen as racist or because they think they will be ineffective for communities that do not readily access alcohol services. Nevertheless, some progress has been made in developing culturally appropriate services over the past 10 years. One avenue is through generic mental health services, which some ethnic minorities may access in preference to specialist services.w11 Several examples of good practice now exist in the UK, with the development of both statutory and voluntary organisations for alcohol related problems in Asian and Irish communities. A further initiative has been the formation of the Federation of Black and Asian Drug and Alcohol Professionals (www.thefederation.org.uk). The Centre for Ethnicity and Health based at the University of Central Lancashire (www.uclan.ac.uk) has complemented these advances with its pioneering research into community engagement with minority groups.

    Alcohol misuse cannot simply be tackled using a broad population approach without culturally appropriate services to meet the needs of minority ethnic groups. This in turn cannot be achieved without a knowledge base drawn from high quality ethnographic research within specific populations. At present, such knowledge remains patchy.w12

    Rahul Rao, consultant and honorary senior lecturer in psychiatry

  18. seanT — on 24th March, 2006 at 10:41 pm  

    Sorry Jay, confusing the threads here.

    Thanks for yr remarks. Believe it or not I had – live online – two days ago, foresworn this issue for a long time. For the very reasons you say – my normal passion and extroversion when applied to something like this can seem very peculiar and even distasteful.

    But then Leeds went and suspended Ellis. And my hackles were raised. Because I really do care about Free Speech a lot. and it seems to me that most of the places where Free Speech is being challenged at the moment, are the same nexus points where race, faith, gender and identity also collide- probably because it is the ‘multicultural left’ which is more concerned with censoring speech these days,compared to the conservative right, which gave up the ghost long ago, and just let it all hang out.

    So I reserve my right to bang on about some or most of these issues as and when. But yes, you are right: enough IQ, already!

  19. Bikhair — on 24th March, 2006 at 11:53 pm  

    Raz,

    I liked it.

  20. douglas — on 24th March, 2006 at 11:54 pm  

    Sunny,

    As a Scot, I thought it might be quite amusing to compare Scottish alcohol consumption with the wimpish Irish and Sikhs. However it is not to be. The BMJ has joined the forces of darkness and requires payment for their articles.

    What if their articles said?:

    “You will all die tomorrow if you don’t stop…( the rest of this article has to be paid for)”

    This desire to make a buck is understandable, but despicable too, I think.

  21. Garry — on 25th March, 2006 at 12:44 am  

    Douglas,

    As a fellow Scot, I can confirm that we put the wimps in the shade. NHS Scotland (reported by BBC): “On alcohol consumption, two in five men and one in four women reported exceeding recommended daily intake levels in 2003.”

    40% for male Scots. We win. Hurray! Possibly.

  22. douglas — on 25th March, 2006 at 1:19 am  

    Garry,

    I was trying to be satirical. But I knew we’d win! Bloody Irish and Sikhs trying to sneak away with our only world title? Hah!

    Still think the BMJ ought to be free.

  23. Sunny — on 25th March, 2006 at 1:50 am  

    Goddamn you Scottish people. I think this requires a call out for fellow punjabis to increase their alcohol intake (coincidentally I have a party to go to tomorrow so I shall start then) and show you that when it comes to copius amounts of alcohol while trying to dance in a vaguely coordinated way – we shall not be beaten. Hopefully. Well, certainly not at bhangra anyway :|

    vladimir – cheers mate!

  24. David T — on 25th March, 2006 at 7:43 am  

    I once did some work on a case which involved some piss-head Sikh guys getting into trouble. All i remember about the case is that they were all mates and had given each other names like Whisky Singh Narula

  25. Jay Singh — on 25th March, 2006 at 12:13 pm  

    LoL @ David T

    Douglas

    Punjabi people love Scotland because it is the homeland of their favourite thing on Earth – WHISKY. For that reason I think you deserve the title.

  26. Petals — on 25th March, 2006 at 4:11 pm  

    Lol gals/guys.

    Just visit Glassy junction and O’neills and you’ll understand the sikhs & irishs lurrvve for Visskky.

    As a sikh female I still can’t understand the drinking whisky phenomenon. Please enlighten.

  27. Garry — on 25th March, 2006 at 4:35 pm  

    Douglas,

    I got that you were being satirical. Me too. :)

    We are the champions….

    And agree about the BMJ.

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