25th March: a tale of two protests
I got a press release from the Muslim Action Committee yesterday stating:
The Muslim Action Committee (MAC) have today condemned the Freedom of Expression March due to be held on the 25th March in Trafalgar Square whose organisers have said that they welcome bringing placards and wearing t-shirts depicting the abusive cartoons.Shaykh Faiz Siddiqi said “This is an offence against Global Civility and a provocation to 1.6 billion Muslims. The continued irresponsible actions of the BNP in distributing leaflets with the cartoons on across the country are also provoking anger throughout the Muslim community”
MAC is calling it’s supporters to carry on the Campaign for Global Civility in the face of these continued attacks on the Muslim community. 31 towns and cities are preparing to demonstrate on the 25th March in their local town and city centres and the MAC hope others will join.
I’m tempted to say I support the March for Free Expression instead on the same day because I support freedom of expression but its rarely as simple as that.
I don’t agree with the idea that t-shirts or placards bearing the Danish cartoons is the right way to do this. What next? A poster of David Irving to protest against his jailing? Might as well be consistent right?
I don’t agree with MAC’s agenda or demands either so its difficult to take sides.
My problem is perfectly encapsulated by Paul Berger who recently went on a pro-Denmark rally in New York. He quickly realised the undertones at the protest:
I was there to show Danes that despite the embassy burnings and the product boycotts, despite the endless column inches of criticism and the tepid support of world leaders, I appreciated their commitment to freedom of religion and expression. Although the people around me doubtless agreed our views diverged from there.They implied that Muslims who demonstrated around the world against the cartoons were either extremists or following orders, as if free will was the preserve of the United States. They made cynical remarks about the media not covering their protest when in reality their movement was so small it warranted little attention. And they attacked Afghanistan’s President Hamid Karzai for criticizing the cartoons when no leader of a Muslim country could do otherwise.
The whole article (written for the NY Metro) is worth reading.
The point is, I don’t want to be standing side by side with people who think Muslims are backward people who need to grow up etc. I’ll give the benefit of doubt to the organisers who have told BNP affiliates they want nothing to do with them. I’m not sure all of the audience will be so enlightened however.
The MAC people want everyone to be restricted to their silly standards and will no doubt regurgitate the usual ‘Zionists are to blame’ rubbish at the rally. Their standards of civility only go one way. They have also launched a blog by the way.
On the 25th then, I think I’ll save myself the cost of a travelcard and chill at home. Maybe play a bit of poker with the boys. I don’t want to follow other people’s agendas, I want to create my own.
| Post to del.icio.us |
Filed in: Civil liberties, Current affairs, Religion
Ive been waiting for this for a while…*starts warming up camera*…I ll take your picture for the heathen press if you come down Sunny
You’ve convinced me *gets the hair gel ready*
To follow your logic, why describe the BNP as backward people who need to grow up? Isn’t that unfair to them? The BNP certainly do need to do those things but I think reasonable people recognise that Europe is now under threat of a different but very real and vicious kind of fascism that must be firmly confronted or else it will be encouraged.
I attended the NYC pro-Danish demo and Paul (who by his own admission left early) did not give an accurate account. It included people of many races and various political stripes who demand their right of free expression and I say bravo to them all.
Compare that to what we are all up against (check out video) and you see how absurd Paul’s complaints are.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19405&only
{shudder}
Like many others I can remember seeing videos of Muslims dancing in the street and cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center.
The lack of action by the Metropolitan Police at the recent Muslim demonstration merely reinforces the fact that even after 9/11 and 7/7 our European political masters do not understand who our enemies are.
‘our European political masters’
Yess, masssters.
Thank you boys. If you’re going to the march, now I know why I won’t be attending.
Well Voltaire (the guy who arranged for this) is certainly not a BNP member infact they are against the facists (read their initial declaration on JW). And yes I’d be attending.
Al-ghuraba aka Muslim BNP did a great diservice to the muslim community and if anything have done more damage. Do the MAC make statments distancing themselves from such people? It could only help. it is relevant.
As far as I can tell, the MAC is run by one dodgy barrister and a bloke who claims to be the descendant of King Edward III.
Notwithstanding, they have the backing of a large number of mosques, the Islamic “Human Rights” Commission, and of course, our friends, the Hizb.
Thank you boys. If you’re going to the march, now I know why I won’t be attending.[sunny]
LOL!
Spineless ‘liberal’ society anyone? Sunny,
Thank you boys. If you’re going to the march, now I know why I won’t be attending.
Thanks Sunny. You’ve reminded me why I *will* be attending. Quite how you can call yourself a liberal and fall down on the side of theocratic totalitaranism is beyond me. But the liberal left is in tatters, creaking under it’s on tautology.
The ‘liberals’ in Canada propose Sharia law for Muslims in Ontario. The result? A conservative government gets voted in. Reactions like yours Sunny will get a Conservative government in this country. I suppose I should be thanking you!
j0nz – I expect nothing less from you anyway. I don’t know why a Telegraph reading tory conservative is teaching me about how to be a liberal.
Not wanting to be on the side of the racists above is siding with theocratic totalitarianism is it? I guess you haven’t read my post properly. But again, that is also expected.
No one in their right mind thinks that Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists etc are backward thinking. More to the point, they tend to live and abide by what social norms prevail where they are.
If a person wants to believe that the moon is made of green cheese is ok by me.
But dont threaten my life if I disagree!
Unfortunately for Muslims, I and millions of others on this planet, have not heard of Christians,Jews, Bhuddists or any other cult of this day and age, threaten extreme violence to unbelievers.
This is particularly ironic if compared to the claims of some of it’s adherents that Islam,’ the religion of peace’.
I’m a tory conservative! Damn, I’m so conservative, it’s worth mentioning twice!
Your logic is flawed my friend. As voltaire points out in his post on Islamophobiawatch
Quick summary instead: because a BNP spin-off has expressed support for us, it is reasonable to imply that we support the BNP spin-off. In other words, because Kevin Smith supports Manchester United, we can say that Manchester United supports Kevin Smith.
I never said that the Freedom March people support the BNP or their ofshoots. In a previous article I chastitised IW for thinking the same. I support their essential aims, but as I said I’m worried this thing will become an anti-Muslim platform. That doesn’t mean I won’t stop supporting freedom of expression in my own way, when I feel like it. But if you’re deluded enough to think that the Danish cartoons is a threat to your way of life then I can’t save you. I didn’t see you scream with hysteria about Ken Livingstone being suspended or David Irving being jailed – probably because they fitted with your agenda.
If you’re going to be an advocate for free speech, be consistent as David T, not pick and choose like most.
tory conservative – you get libertarian Tories too
Unfortunately for Muslims, I and millions of others on this planet, have not heard of Christians,Jews, Bhuddists or any other cult of this day and age, threaten extreme violence to unbelievers.
That’s because you Ted, like most in the west, or only concerned about what happens in their back yard, not what goes on in other parts of the world.
“That’s because you Ted, like most in the west, or only concerned about what happens in their back yard, not what goes on in other parts of the world”
Great point Sunny. The only reason Islamic terrorists get so much press is because they target Westerners. If they stuck to killing brown people in far off lands (as they were doing in Pakistan during the 1980’s) nobody would care.
Hmm you’re not going to go out of fear it will be an anti-muslim rally? I have discussed with many people who are attending, *none* of them have an anti-muslim agenda. The guy that is organising the march does not have an anti-muslim agenda.
Plus, we have some Muslims attending in support as well, so I don’t see how this is going to be anti-muslim. Have a little faith in the good nature of the non-muslims
Just because a stupid minority preach hatred on the streets of London, doesn’t mean their adverseries would stoop so low.
What Paul Berger says does not constitute an anti-muslim agenda in the pro-freedom rally. Because one is passionate about resisting the forces of Islamism and 7th century thinking, this does not equate one with being against Muslims. Sunny, I think your take is rather cynical, and has a tinge of vast-right-wing- conspiracy type thinking.
I can’t think of a better advert for ‘moderate Muslims’ than Muslims who come to this rally. Personally , I feel you should be encouraging your Muslim friends to attend. I want lefties and Muslims to attend, this isn’t a right wing issue, it’s a issue for all to rally for.
“That’s because you Ted, like most in the west, or only concerned about what happens in their back yard, not what goes on in other parts of the world”
Very true. A bit like all those anti-Iraq war protestors.
If they stuck to killing brown people in far off lands (as they were doing in Pakistan during the 1980’s) nobody would care.
So true. Racist whitey media. I’m sure news in Pakistan & India is chocka block with all the horrors going on in Africa, and not focussed with their taget audience.
jOnz,
You can be very disingenuous sometimes.
“What Paul Berger says does not constitute an anti-muslim agenda in the pro-freedom rally. Because one is passionate about resisting the forces of Islamism and 7th century thinking, this does not equate one with being against Muslims. ”
Islam is from the 7th century. Our Prophets (sallalahu alaihi wa salam) were from the 7th century and back.
I dont believe Islamism is from the 7th century. It is rather modern, 25% gangsta, 25% Islamic, 25% marxist, 25% fill in the blank. Traditional Islam is far more conformist than our rebellious brothers would have you believe. Think of all the modern thinkers of this movement and even their not so ancient predecesors the Khawarij sect. Qutb, Maududi, and others all influeced by 20th century thinkers whether social, facist, or marxist.
If you actually knew who these people were and not the caricatures you see on the streets of London or Lahore, you would recognize them for who they were.
Bikki,
‘I don’t believe Islamism is from the 7th century. It is rather modern; 25% gangsta, 25% Islamic, 25% marxist, 25% fill in the blank. ‘
Interesting point. I sometimes find it difficult to explain to friends and colleagues, when the subject arises, that;
a. As an atheist I have a problem with Islam as a revealed, non-rational belief system, just as I do with Christianity.
b. As a liberal I have a problem with some repressive practices justified by cultural interpretations of Islam.
c. As a democrat I have a problem with violent radicals making a power-play in the name of Islam.
But that these are; Three. Different. Issues. Put them all together and you are on the road to the mind-set that says ‘ My GP wants to cut my head off.’
David T’s analysis helped frame this, but your point is also very cogent. Thanks.
I wish someone would parse the several left-wing, fascist hugging demos we have had in London over the last several years like they attack a rally promoting free expression. I think the left is truly against free expression, dissent and freedom and they are threatened by people who tell the truth of what is happening in Europe today. Fascism is once again on the march only this time it is not blond haired, blue eyed blokes on tanks but the theat is just as real, especially if people refuse to confront it. And by the way, the far-right are on the side of the leftists on this issue because they all hate Israel.
As Christopher Hitchens recently said in Washington DC in front of the Danish Embassy, “Solidarity with Denmark and death to fascism.”
Here…here….See you in Traflagar Square!!
Jingo all the way!
Jingos are the only ones between you and the fascists.
YOUR WELCOME……….AGAIN!
Rob,
Could you specify any ‘left-wing, fascist hugging demos ‘ that haven taken place during the life-time of this blog and not been parsed?
And I realise that coming up with a chant is not easy ( Ho Ho Ho Chin Min was a gift to some of my generation) but make an effort.
As it happens, I’m inclined to think people should show up, but chant less and talk more. Amongst themselves.
Isn’t comunication the point? The opposition ain’t listening; forget about making a noise, talk to the person next to you. Get some perspective out there.
Ah………how about the protests today in several major cities around the world. If they got want they want, it would result in a victory of head-hacking fascists in Iraq. I do not remember any parsing except for us so-called “jingos.”
it would result in a victory of head-hacking fascists in Iraq
I didn’t realise being against American cluster bombing in Iraq meant I was advocating head-hacking fascists in the same country. thanks for t enlightening me Rob.
Welcome Sunny
Sunny,
I was a bit depressed by your post. To think that you play poker, disgraceful!
There are folk in this world who view ‘offence’ as the greatest insult. They are, generally to be despised, whether they are Sicilian mafia or Islamic scholars..
One of the few things I admire about the US, probably the only thing in fact, is that ideas and insults are a marketplace. You can say anything you want, more or less. That is a true melting pot of ideas. It also strikes me as quite Darwinian, in the sense that if your ideas are crap, they won’t survive. Which, for instance, explains why the gun nuts are so vociferous, they recognise that they are under pressure.
Wherever and whenever religion has been given a platform, for instance in Europe in the Middle Ages, it has been a force for backwardness and unenlightenment. I am thinking about Galileo.
These, Christian, thugs would have had you believe that their view of the Universe was correct., when it transparently is not. So which side are you on? Theocratic morons, whose only version of their existence is defined by adherence to outmoded texts and an immutable belief that anything that challenges them are the work of the devil or people that think for themselves? I do believe in civility, but it is the former who are being incivil, not the latter.
I am less than impressed by the agenda that Muslims are following right now. If their religion must not be criticised, what does that say about it’s fragility? When folk resort to violence, it is generally the case that they have lost the arguement.
There are few people in the Western world – perhaps Yvonne Ridley and Madeliene Bunting could argue otherwise – who find the intolerance, and, frankly Victorian attitudes, of Muslim clerics as anything other than deeply offensive.
Freedom of expression has been hard won. If I was a marcher or rallyist, which I’m not, I’d not be playing poker.
Muslims! You said Muslims! You racist!
/hysterical leftist
Sunny
I gave you more credit than you show worthy of.
Rather than accept what is patently obvious (global jihad) funded by the Wahabbis of Saud and Shias of Iran, your only respnose was to comment ad hominem.
jOnz,
Assuming you were commenting on my post rather than Sunnys’ lead, you would be right about the prejudice. However you view it too narrowly. I think you could reasonably read into my post a disgust with all religions. If that can be described as racist, bring it on!
Cheers.
patently obvious (global jihad) funded by the Wahabbis of Saud and Shias of Iran
what does that have to do with using the cartoons as some sort of marker of freedom of speech?
The problem with arguments like the kind you put forward Ted is that its not nuanced. Everything is part of this so-called global jihad and therefore any issue with Muslims being involved becomes part of that equation, and thus to be resisted.
Douglas – heh, c’mon mate poker isn’t all that bad! Specially when you only play with 5p coins as a laugh
I don’t disagree with the broad thrust of your argument. FoS should be protected at all costs and I’ve previously argued for allowing the BNP to say what they want, against the religious hatred bill, and more. In fact I’m planning another article on the issue. But that doesn’t mean I’m willing to be dragged into other people’s agendas.
I’ve never accepted the argument that the Danish cartoons controversy was purely about being pro-freedom of speech. I’ve said that numerously that people like j0nz have a biased view that does not accept all freedom of speech, only the agendas they want to promote. So while I support FoS, I don’t want to be dragged into the anti-Muslim agenda in this instance.
Sunny,
‘you only play with 5p coins as a laugh’
If losing doesn’t hurt, it ain’t poker.
I lost all my money on Friday (5 pounds), that hurt
Ted Matthews,
The global Jihad has got the Wahhabis and the Shittes aligned? Ha Ha Ha. Take it from this Wahhabi, you are a little confused.
Rob,
“Ah………how about the protests today in several major cities around the world. If they got want they want, it would result in a victory of head-hacking fascists in Iraq. I do not remember any parsing except for us so-called “jingos.”
If you dont want the head-hacking fascist to have a victory in Iraq you can always return Saddam back to power. He was far more successful at keeping those types out of power, influence, oppurtunity in his country. This is way Islam discourages rebellion and revolution in an attempt to rid people of the evil above them, i.e. Saddam, because what may take its place can be something far worse.
Because of him being deposed they are in Iraq now creating all kinds of wicked acts and the people of Iraq, the worlds biggest victims of Islamist terrorism (I use the word Islamist flippantly) have to live a life of violent insecurity. Lets hope they dont blame the teachings Islam. LOL….
Sunny,
You are quite right to choose the ground you want to stand on. I was only joking about the poker, or poking about the joker, I forget which. And that was supposed to be light hearted too
In other words, because Kevin Smith supports Manchester United, we can say that Manchester United supports Kevin Smith.
Even better:
Because Osama bin Laden supports Arsenal, we can assume that Arsenal supports Osama bin Laden.
Lopakin,
What a jewel.
The best way to show that this March is not about Islam but about protecting the rights for us to speak freely and worship any religion we choose without fear or provication … is for Muslims to attend.