This discussion is over. I certainly don’t have webspace for Ashik to spend his time saying how I should be running PP or on our editorial policy. It makes FA all difference to me what he says.

This Journal also runs other scaremongering stories like ‘Turning Red: Immigrants Tip the Balance in Belgian Local Elections’ and ‘Why the Future May Not Belong to Islam’ stating ‘Critics would claim that Mr. Steyn isn’t contributing to maintaining Western willpower by suggesting that we’ve already lost. Islamic countries are parasitical. Even the massive population growth is only an advantage as long as Muslims are allowed to export it to infidel lands’.

This is clearly not a mistake on Sid’s part since the first line of the story he used should have alerted him to the nature of that site. The site also claimed a Muslim official, Lord Ahmed threatened 10,000 Muslims protesting Mr. Wilders entry to the UK and the film event but neither the Brussels Journal nor your writer Sid have been able to evidence that Lord Ahmed said any such thing. The Pakistan Times article Sid pointed us to suggested no such thing.

In the interests of journalistic professionalism I would like PP, yourself or Sunny, to maintain tighter editorial oversight of your stable of writers. Stories should be linked to credible (preferably multiple) sources. This story clearly shows the depths to which Sid will plummet to write a story showing Muslim officials in positions of responsibility and Muslims generally in a bad light. Can’t you persuade any Muslims to write articles exploring all facets (not just politics and Islamism, contrary to what some ppl believe we Muslims do not sit around all day hatching plans for global domination) of Muslim life? There should be accountability for your writers. Will PP rebuke Sid for such blatent disregard of posting rules and for letting his personal feelings clearly dictate his articles?

It put this blog in an invidious position, and it can only be put right by Sid. Loyalty is commendable in most cases, but this isn’t one of them.

I think Sid should do the honourable thing, and acknowledge it as a lapse in judgement.

As for the childish temper tantrums and offensive name-calling is concerned, well lets leave that to one side. My view is that he who intitiates and participates damage themselves.

Our position on sources is this: we try and cite from things that have been widely quoted as possible, and quoted by credible news sources. However, we also recognise that mistakes can be made, as we don’t have a team of reporters and researchers. Therefore, if a source we have linked to have been proven false, we will correct it. Has the source been proven false in this case?

What sort of discussion can you have if that’s your starting point?

Scripture is scripture and the Islamic position regarding marriage is well known. Surely, you are not asking for Muslims to change Islam!

You make a good point about writing articles for PP. I would be happy to, if Sunny and the gang will post anything I write. However, given the controversial nature of PP and it’s long history of anti-Muslim articles (primarily written by Sid with complementary backslapping from drinking buddies), I would feel more comfortable if Sunny could persuade another Muslim to write an article (preferably not yet another article about political Islam, there is so much more to Islam and Muslims than politics).

Amrit, you talk about research, what sort of research do you think Sid did when he linked to a far right link and got caught red-handed halfway through the debate? What editorial and quality control would you like to see? I am interested in your opinions about PP writers using dubious sources making unreferenced claims of public figures (Lord Ahmed and the’10,000 rampaging Muslims’) since you have written for PP as a visitor.

And the reason I am pursuing this double standards in moderating and special treatment of Sid is that Leon deleted my post about a family member who was killed during the Liberation War. Yet he let Sid go on at length about Sid’s family experiences. I hope you understand.

‘ps. Could Sunny please clarify PP’s position about Sid’s use of a far-right journal to write a negative article about Muslims. Especially as Lord Ahmed’s alleged quote about 10,000 Muslims demonstrating could not be referenced. Minimal standards of blogging demand PP act professionally and ensure that articles are accurate and not based on hate-sites’.

***
For the last time, Sunny or Rumbold please clarify PP’s ‘official’ position about the use of far-right sources by Sid. What is the editorial line followed by your writers. Is there any quality control? Stop ignoring this point. After all, you surely have nothing to hide?

Leon, it is plain to see that you are using double-standards by deleting my post about my families experience of the Bangladeshi Liberation War while you permit your drinking buddy Sid ample opportunity to joist with Blah about his families experiences. That has nothing to do with tribalism but basic 101 rules of moderating: never leave yourself open to being seen to show favouritism.

Why have you not responded to Refresh’s request to delete Sid’s offending posts? Surely everyone who posts should be treated the same? Or am I being a tad naive….

… why you started this new ‘drinking buddy’ theme, to portray one of our regulars as a bad Muslim, yada yada yada does not speak for Muslims.

Indeed, I was thinking it’s that or an attempt to cast friendships as some kind of secret conspiracy…

Btw, I’m not getting into a cynical exercise in ‘debate’ over PP moderation. The agenda at work is too plain to see.

Unsurprisingly, Muslim regulars are always welcome at our meetups. Since I started going to the gatherings, we have only met once in a pub. At least one Muslim broke their Ramadan fast with us. Given the amount of time we spend holding anti-Muslim stories and groups to account, I do rather resent the implication that we are some cosy anti-Muslim gang.

Very well said. But the point about pubs is a non starter, who cares where we meet, people are free to drink and eat what they like…the point is we are a varied bunch and enjoy each others company. And are not interested in the tribalistic cynicism of people like Ashik.

Ashik:

Furthermore, we can either talk about Muslims and treat them as individuals rather than a horder, or we can stop and leave it for those who will stereotype them.

You have minimal understanding of Islam/Muslims eg. no matter how much you dislike it Muslim women cannot within Islam marry Non-Muslims.

GOOOOOOOOOOOLD! (As the Californians caught up in the Rush must’ve thought to themselves when they struck lucky). Here, once you cut through all the outraged posturing, we have the heart of the matter.

Ashik, might I just say that I find it unendingly bizarre how one minute you complain that PP doesn’t represent you (I’m not going to give your attempts to represent all Muslims any airtime, soz) and then, the next minute you… complain that PP doesn’t represent you *scratches head*.

If you have such grievances, why on Earth don’t you email in an article time to time, eh? Given the new Sunday feature, you’ve got no excuse. Or does that not appeal to you because it would involve the dreaded word RESEARCH?

Unsurprisingly, Muslim regulars are always welcome at our meetups. Since I started going to the gatherings, we have only met once in a pub. At least one Muslim broke their Ramadan fast with us. Given the amount of time we spend holding anti-Muslim stories and groups to account, I do rather resent the implication that we are some cosy anti-Muslim gang.

This forum is edited and moderated according to political taste and there is no uniform policy of deleting posts which stray off topic. Else Sid would be a primary casualty. And the post Leon deleted was not a personal attack unlike the Sid-Blah joisting above.

Both HP and PP like to talk frequently about Muslims/Islam. HP is too Pro-Israel but PP is let down by the fact it’s no.1 focus is on Muslims (in terms of number of articles here) but you have no Muslim article writers and do not permit dialogue. Each Muslim-related article falls into a familiar trend of politiking where aethiests (one of whom sometimes claims Muslim heritage), non-Asians and Hindus talk about Islam and Muslims as ‘the other’. You have minimal understanding of Islam/Muslims eg. no matter how much you dislike it Muslim women cannot within Islam marry Non-Muslims. Sham Muslim marriages are moreso disapproved of. it is unlikely that even when youat PP identify Muslim-related topics which are relevant (which to be fair PP sometimes does) that you can engage in a manner which increases understanding between Muslims and non-Muslims. This then leads to Muslim-Non Muslim members infighting on most threads. Hence as Rumbold said, PP is about politiking not politics.

To cut to the chase, PP is highly interested in Muslim issues so it needs to foster an environment for Muslim participation. Otherwise it’s just a bunch of talking heads.

***
ps. Could Sunny please clarify PP’s position about Sid’s use of a far-right journal to write a negative article about Muslims. Especially as Lord Ahmed’s alleged quote about 10,000 Muslims demonstrating could not be referenced. Minimal standards of blogging demand PP act professionally and ensure that articles are accurate and not based on hate-sites.

Because Sid is known to those who own/run this site. They meet up in pubs. Hence reasonably: drinking buddies. This is a reason

… why you started this new ‘drinking buddy’ theme, to portray one of our regulars as a bad Muslim, yada yada yada does not speak for Muslims. You also used the term “pay-n-all” (prostitute) for another of our regulars because she married outside the community, yada yada yada, does not speak for Muslims.

You have shown to be a weasel of the worst kind, so stop whining that moderators are not neutral – they have been very tolerant with your smears.

The terms ‘progressive’ and ‘freedom of expression’ have limited currency on this forum.

Being progressive means calling a fucktard when we see one – and having little tolerance with those who act that way.

In future please do not write every other article on PP about Muslims/Islam and please desist always portraying us negatively. If you want to stop or manipulate the debate then don’t even start it. This much is fair to all.

Fucktards don’t decide what is discussed here.

ps. Aren’t ‘moderators’ supposed to be neutral. Why then am I called a ‘fucktard’?

It’s a progressive thing. See above.

No, I suppose not. But ‘Sid’s Psychosis’ was still a great name for a Pink Floyd tribute band.

can you please delete all the comments that start with blah-job.

The problem with PP

There’s no problem with PP other than idiots like you who are determined to just attack people.

PP people, both writers and readers, meet up often and have all manner of relationships which are highly valued but it doesn’t determine moderation policy.

PP is a community and the community will be defended by fucktards such as yourself purposely mis-representing or attacking it or it’s constituent parts.

ps. Freindly advice, for the sake of progressive equality and diversity, PP meet ups shouldn’t be held in pubs. The few Muslims you have visiting here are not likely to attend.

That’s fine. This is Sunny’s forum and his freinds are moderators. You can ban me too.

The terms ‘progressive’ and ‘freedom of expression’ have limited currency on this forum.

The problem with PP was identified by Rumbold a while ago where he said PP did too much politiking and not politics. The factions formed on on this forum inhibite legitimate debate.

Fine,protect Sid if you will. In future please do not write every other article on PP about Muslims/Islam and please desist always portraying us negatively. If you want to stop or manipulate the debate then don’t even start it. This much is fair to all.

ps. Aren’t ‘moderators’ supposed to be neutral. Why then am I called a ‘fucktard’? Or is drinking buddy Leon going to balance this by calling Sid a fucktard too?

This is truely a serious blog.