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	<title>Comments on: Vaz Deference</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247</link>
	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Atlas Shrugs Meets Geert Wilders in the USA &#171; Tony Blair</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150995</link>
		<dc:creator>Atlas Shrugs Meets Geert Wilders in the USA &#171; Tony Blair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150995</guid>
		<description>[...] Place selected this as blog of the month. It superbly highlights how abso&#8230; blooming&#8230; lutely useless our present crop of MPs are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Place selected this as blog of the month. It superbly highlights how abso&#8230; blooming&#8230; lutely useless our present crop of MPs are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: munir</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150899</link>
		<dc:creator>munir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150899</guid>
		<description>Joel Shapiro&#039;s post is pretty typical of the one-sided agenda pushed by ceratin quarters. There is no mentioning of the stopping of killing Muslims (the main point of radicalisation). Shapiro calls on condemantion of anti-Jewish attitudes yet doesnt mention anything of stopping the virulent Islamophobia  and hatred against Muslims infecting non-Muslim including Jewish communities (which finds worst expression in Richard Desmonds papers)  and what hes going to do about that.

Im personally not interested in acting against other Muslims merely to strength Israel and Pax America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel Shapiro&#8217;s post is pretty typical of the one-sided agenda pushed by ceratin quarters. There is no mentioning of the stopping of killing Muslims (the main point of radicalisation). Shapiro calls on condemantion of anti-Jewish attitudes yet doesnt mention anything of stopping the virulent Islamophobia  and hatred against Muslims infecting non-Muslim including Jewish communities (which finds worst expression in Richard Desmonds papers)  and what hes going to do about that.</p>
<p>Im personally not interested in acting against other Muslims merely to strength Israel and Pax America.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150886</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150886</guid>
		<description>The best point that people make against Wilder&#039;s film Fitna is that it does not describe most Muslims. This point, however, is both obvious and completely irrelevant. The only question that matters in this debate is: What is the West going to do, and what are the hundreds of millions of peaceful Muslims going to do about the Muslims that are currently using Islam to promote hatred and violence? Responding that &quot;most Muslims are peaceful&quot; is nothing more than misdirection. If you think these radical Muslims are giving Islam a bad name, don’t criticize Geert Wilders for reporting on it; criticize the militant Islamists themselves. Again, the only important question here is this: What are we going to do about the Muslims that are in fact using Islam to promote hatred and violence against Jews and the West? We cannot have this debate, figure this out, if people reporting on it are banned from our countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best point that people make against Wilder&#8217;s film Fitna is that it does not describe most Muslims. This point, however, is both obvious and completely irrelevant. The only question that matters in this debate is: What is the West going to do, and what are the hundreds of millions of peaceful Muslims going to do about the Muslims that are currently using Islam to promote hatred and violence? Responding that &#8220;most Muslims are peaceful&#8221; is nothing more than misdirection. If you think these radical Muslims are giving Islam a bad name, don’t criticize Geert Wilders for reporting on it; criticize the militant Islamists themselves. Again, the only important question here is this: What are we going to do about the Muslims that are in fact using Islam to promote hatred and violence against Jews and the West? We cannot have this debate, figure this out, if people reporting on it are banned from our countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150885</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150885</guid>
		<description>Katy, wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katy, wise.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Newton</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150882</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150882</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I was hoping that one of their biggest achievements might be to develop a progressive, vernacular (read: British) school of Islam that is free (in every way) of reactionary Jewish backwardness.&lt;/i&gt;

That is hands down the weirdest thing I&#039;ve ever read on this site.

(I was going to be seriously tasteless, but I edited to maintain my dignity.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I was hoping that one of their biggest achievements might be to develop a progressive, vernacular (read: British) school of Islam that is free (in every way) of reactionary Jewish backwardness.</i></p>
<p>That is hands down the weirdest thing I&#8217;ve ever read on this site.</p>
<p>(I was going to be seriously tasteless, but I edited to maintain my dignity.)</p>
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		<title>By: Anas</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150881</link>
		<dc:creator>Anas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150881</guid>
		<description>yep, fuck off back to the hole u crawled from mushtaq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep, fuck off back to the hole u crawled from mushtaq.</p>
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		<title>By: An unhappy anniversary &#171; Frank Owen&#8217;s Paintbrush</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150880</link>
		<dc:creator>An unhappy anniversary &#171; Frank Owen&#8217;s Paintbrush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150880</guid>
		<description>[...] Vaz is still managing to embarrass himself when it comes to free speech issues. Although I did not have an especially strong opinion on the question of whether preventing Geert Wilders (crazy name, crazy hair, crazy guy!) from entering the UK was the appropriate course of action, I think if I had been invited onto Newsnight to discuss Wilders&#8217; film I would have made the effort to watch it before being my opinions were to be broadcast to the nation. Watch the Newsnight discussion here.  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vaz is still managing to embarrass himself when it comes to free speech issues. Although I did not have an especially strong opinion on the question of whether preventing Geert Wilders (crazy name, crazy hair, crazy guy!) from entering the UK was the appropriate course of action, I think if I had been invited onto Newsnight to discuss Wilders&#8217; film I would have made the effort to watch it before being my opinions were to be broadcast to the nation. Watch the Newsnight discussion here.  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150878</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150878</guid>
		<description>Refresh #70,

Quite. Go away, Mushtaq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Refresh #70,</p>
<p>Quite. Go away, Mushtaq.</p>
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		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150870</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150870</guid>
		<description>Blah @ 63,

Are you some sort of warrior for Islamists? I&#039;d hope you&#039;d agree that they have co-opted Islam for their own ends. Much as Catholics and Protestants co-opted Christianity for their ends in the Middle Ages.

It was just as much a load of mince then as it is now.

Chill, take a pill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blah @ 63,</p>
<p>Are you some sort of warrior for Islamists? I&#8217;d hope you&#8217;d agree that they have co-opted Islam for their own ends. Much as Catholics and Protestants co-opted Christianity for their ends in the Middle Ages.</p>
<p>It was just as much a load of mince then as it is now.</p>
<p>Chill, take a pill.</p>
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		<title>By: tevya</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150867</link>
		<dc:creator>tevya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150867</guid>
		<description>Sid, great post. Made me laugh.

The comment above from Mushtaq is racist, no? 

&quot;Beholden to Judaism, Jew-behinds, Jew-ness, Jewish financiers, Jews have the money, reactionary Jewish backwardness&quot; 

- there&#039;s a theme here isn&#039;t there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sid, great post. Made me laugh.</p>
<p>The comment above from Mushtaq is racist, no? </p>
<p>&#8220;Beholden to Judaism, Jew-behinds, Jew-ness, Jewish financiers, Jews have the money, reactionary Jewish backwardness&#8221; </p>
<p>- there&#8217;s a theme here isn&#8217;t there?</p>
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		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150865</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150865</guid>
		<description>Mushtaq,

go away. I no longer want to hear about these sorts of flights of fancy. Deal with what they say or do.

If its a question of funding, present the evidence.

Otherwise give it a rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mushtaq,</p>
<p>go away. I no longer want to hear about these sorts of flights of fancy. Deal with what they say or do.</p>
<p>If its a question of funding, present the evidence.</p>
<p>Otherwise give it a rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Mushtaq</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150864</link>
		<dc:creator>Mushtaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150864</guid>
		<description>My problem with the Quilliam Foundation,, is that they are still beholden to Judaism with all those weird and nasty cultural features. Jews have the money to set up these think tanks, Southasian Muslims have the nous to run them. Southasians ultimately end up aquiescing to their paymasters by becoming their mouthpieces and this means papering over some very disgusting world-views. Look at the Quilliam and you will see that they are populated by Southasians  trying to out-do one another in Jew-ness. For some reason it is a weakness to be Anglicised (”coconut”) but it is a virtue to be Judai-sed.

Why is this? Why do Southasian Muslims regard Jews as their superiors? Is it because we go weak-kneed whenever we hear the guttural tones of spoken Hebrew?
Surely we should know better by now? In spite of universal human rights abuses of  the Israelis and the horror stories we hear year after year there is still a steadfast belief amongst Quilliamites that the sun shines out of Jew behinds.

Now that the Quilliam Foundation is free of their Jewish financiers, I hope that they can truly come into their own. I was hoping that one of their biggest achievements might be to develop a progressive, vernacular (read: British) school of Islam that is free (in every way) of reactionary Jewish backwardness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with the Quilliam Foundation,, is that they are still beholden to Judaism with all those weird and nasty cultural features. Jews have the money to set up these think tanks, Southasian Muslims have the nous to run them. Southasians ultimately end up aquiescing to their paymasters by becoming their mouthpieces and this means papering over some very disgusting world-views. Look at the Quilliam and you will see that they are populated by Southasians  trying to out-do one another in Jew-ness. For some reason it is a weakness to be Anglicised (”coconut”) but it is a virtue to be Judai-sed.</p>
<p>Why is this? Why do Southasian Muslims regard Jews as their superiors? Is it because we go weak-kneed whenever we hear the guttural tones of spoken Hebrew?<br />
Surely we should know better by now? In spite of universal human rights abuses of  the Israelis and the horror stories we hear year after year there is still a steadfast belief amongst Quilliamites that the sun shines out of Jew behinds.</p>
<p>Now that the Quilliam Foundation is free of their Jewish financiers, I hope that they can truly come into their own. I was hoping that one of their biggest achievements might be to develop a progressive, vernacular (read: British) school of Islam that is free (in every way) of reactionary Jewish backwardness.</p>
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		<title>By: Mushtaq</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150863</link>
		<dc:creator>Mushtaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150863</guid>
		<description>de</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>de</p>
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		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150860</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150860</guid>
		<description>Sid, read your own accusation and compare that with your #66.

And now its my double-standards! You need an assistant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sid, read your own accusation and compare that with your #66.</p>
<p>And now its my double-standards! You need an assistant.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150858</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150858</guid>
		<description>Refresh, your double standards are astounding. You accused me of &quot;diluting&quot; the quality of this website for posting off-topic comments. So when I deleted the off-topic and off-colour comments in an exchange in which many were my own, you now accuse me of underhandedness!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Refresh, your double standards are astounding. You accused me of &#8220;diluting&#8221; the quality of this website for posting off-topic comments. So when I deleted the off-topic and off-colour comments in an exchange in which many were my own, you now accuse me of underhandedness!</p>
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		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150857</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150857</guid>
		<description>Sid, I knew it would get this dirty when you deleted all those comments.

Now it leaves you with a freehand to accuse at will, with no one to actually able to refer back to those posts. Except you.

If I recall, you told me you deleted them because I had complained that the diversions from the topic of the posts were undermining the quality of Pickled Politics. There was no mention of the accusations you now make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sid, I knew it would get this dirty when you deleted all those comments.</p>
<p>Now it leaves you with a freehand to accuse at will, with no one to actually able to refer back to those posts. Except you.</p>
<p>If I recall, you told me you deleted them because I had complained that the diversions from the topic of the posts were undermining the quality of Pickled Politics. There was no mention of the accusations you now make.</p>
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		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150856</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150856</guid>
		<description>Well, websites are accountable to the ISPs who host them for the content of their site. If you post racist material and genocide endorsing opinions on this website, which you have done on numerous occassions, we are liable for them, not you. 

Which is why we either have to delete your comments or report your IP to the ISP. Which one would you rather have us do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, websites are accountable to the ISPs who host them for the content of their site. If you post racist material and genocide endorsing opinions on this website, which you have done on numerous occassions, we are liable for them, not you. </p>
<p>Which is why we either have to delete your comments or report your IP to the ISP. Which one would you rather have us do?</p>
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		<title>By: blah</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150855</link>
		<dc:creator>blah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150855</guid>
		<description>douglas clark

&quot;Contrary to what you seem to think, this is quite a friendly site. I find your use of the personal as a weapon against other commentators bloody annoying. 

You are certainly not going to change anyone’s mind with that approach&quot;

I should try Sids approch. Well reasoned , sophisticated  and subtle and nuanced. 

Who can forget his comment to another poster: &quot;youre an Islamist cnt&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>douglas clark</p>
<p>&#8220;Contrary to what you seem to think, this is quite a friendly site. I find your use of the personal as a weapon against other commentators bloody annoying. </p>
<p>You are certainly not going to change anyone’s mind with that approach&#8221;</p>
<p>I should try Sids approch. Well reasoned , sophisticated  and subtle and nuanced. </p>
<p>Who can forget his comment to another poster: &#8220;youre an Islamist cnt&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: blah</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150854</link>
		<dc:creator>blah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150854</guid>
		<description>Sid
&quot;Yes, its called Freedom of Speech. How have you mananged to grow up to adulthood here in the West without hearing about it or indeed know what it even means?&quot;

He he.Says the man who deletes posts he doesnt like and reports people to their ISPs

lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sid<br />
&#8220;Yes, its called Freedom of Speech. How have you mananged to grow up to adulthood here in the West without hearing about it or indeed know what it even means?&#8221;</p>
<p>He he.Says the man who deletes posts he doesnt like and reports people to their ISPs</p>
<p>lol</p>
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		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3247/comment-page-2#comment-150852</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3247#comment-150852</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Your indulgence of Wilders (im not saying you want to ban the Quran) vs strong criticism of Rushdie opponents is curiously different&lt;/em&gt;

Yes, its called Freedom of Speech. How have you mananged to grow up to adulthood here in the West without hearing about it or indeed know what it even means? 

&lt;em&gt;And arent you guilty of exactly the same thing? You printed the Lord Ahmed 10,000 claim from the Brussel Journal without any chceking.&lt;/em&gt;

It has not yet been officially refuted, even if you want to wish it away.

&lt;em&gt;You and many secularists have replaced the priests you accuse the religious of blindly relying on and following, with newspaper journalists you blindly accept!!&lt;/em&gt;

Unlike priests, I can insult any journalist I like without being questioned about my religious observance or my standing in the &quot;community&quot;.

&lt;em&gt;At least the man Rushdie mentioned had the decency to admit his mistake something you didnt- instead you furiously tried to justify it!!&lt;/em&gt;

You&#039;re losing me on this one. I tried to furiously justify what? 

&lt;em&gt;The majority of Muslims who protested Rushdie’s book had not read it with the notable exception of Sardar and others.&lt;/em&gt;

Yep, that&#039;s what I just said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Your indulgence of Wilders (im not saying you want to ban the Quran) vs strong criticism of Rushdie opponents is curiously different</em></p>
<p>Yes, its called Freedom of Speech. How have you mananged to grow up to adulthood here in the West without hearing about it or indeed know what it even means? </p>
<p><em>And arent you guilty of exactly the same thing? You printed the Lord Ahmed 10,000 claim from the Brussel Journal without any chceking.</em></p>
<p>It has not yet been officially refuted, even if you want to wish it away.</p>
<p><em>You and many secularists have replaced the priests you accuse the religious of blindly relying on and following, with newspaper journalists you blindly accept!!</em></p>
<p>Unlike priests, I can insult any journalist I like without being questioned about my religious observance or my standing in the &#8220;community&#8221;.</p>
<p><em>At least the man Rushdie mentioned had the decency to admit his mistake something you didnt- instead you furiously tried to justify it!!</em></p>
<p>You&#8217;re losing me on this one. I tried to furiously justify what? </p>
<p><em>The majority of Muslims who protested Rushdie’s book had not read it with the notable exception of Sardar and others.</em></p>
<p>Yep, that&#8217;s what I just said.</p>
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