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	<title>Comments on: Universally Unacceptable</title>
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	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Rumbold</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150326</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumbold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150326</guid>
		<description>Ashik:

You frequently stereotype a whole group of people. I don&#039;t think that counts as a legitimate criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashik:</p>
<p>You frequently stereotype a whole group of people. I don&#8217;t think that counts as a legitimate criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashik</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150317</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150317</guid>
		<description>Actually, deep aversion of people to the corruption riddden, nepotistic, irrelevant, slogan-heavy policy-light tribal Bangladeshi party politics transcends the Sylheti-Dhakaiya divide. 

People always vote against the incumbent party because of the corruption. Not for nothing was Bangladesh found the most corrupt country by Transparancy International five years on the trot! 

Sid is only able to get away with blatantly biased and dishonest articles on Bangladesh which are Pro-Awami League because this is a non-Bengali site and he knows a few people eg. Katy newton, outside the forum.

Rumbold, I really can&#039;t say there is anything lower than pretending to be a human rights group (supposed to be neutral/apolitical) while cheerleading electral victory for one party in the polarised political arena of Bangladesh. Sid and his ilk actually do harm to the vibrant NGO sector in Bangladesh by making them controversial. As for Sylhetis, ask Sid if his group can attract any Sylheti speakers in the UK! LoL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, deep aversion of people to the corruption riddden, nepotistic, irrelevant, slogan-heavy policy-light tribal Bangladeshi party politics transcends the Sylheti-Dhakaiya divide. </p>
<p>People always vote against the incumbent party because of the corruption. Not for nothing was Bangladesh found the most corrupt country by Transparancy International five years on the trot! </p>
<p>Sid is only able to get away with blatantly biased and dishonest articles on Bangladesh which are Pro-Awami League because this is a non-Bengali site and he knows a few people eg. Katy newton, outside the forum.</p>
<p>Rumbold, I really can&#8217;t say there is anything lower than pretending to be a human rights group (supposed to be neutral/apolitical) while cheerleading electral victory for one party in the polarised political arena of Bangladesh. Sid and his ilk actually do harm to the vibrant NGO sector in Bangladesh by making them controversial. As for Sylhetis, ask Sid if his group can attract any Sylheti speakers in the UK! LoL</p>
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		<title>By: zafar</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150309</link>
		<dc:creator>zafar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150309</guid>
		<description>In Bangladesh politics &amp; activism for party is for personal gain only. Ordinary people are caught in between the corruption and violence. If you are lucky enough to live abroad Sid then count your blessings and leave well alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Bangladesh politics &amp; activism for party is for personal gain only. Ordinary people are caught in between the corruption and violence. If you are lucky enough to live abroad Sid then count your blessings and leave well alone.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rumbold</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150224</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumbold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150224</guid>
		<description>Sid and Chairwoman:

Sorry, I should have phrased that better. I didn&#039;t mean that all Sylhetis dislike all Dhakaris, but you (Sid) have to admite that one of the main reasons Ashik dislikes you is because of your origins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sid and Chairwoman:</p>
<p>Sorry, I should have phrased that better. I didn&#8217;t mean that all Sylhetis dislike all Dhakaris, but you (Sid) have to admite that one of the main reasons Ashik dislikes you is because of your origins.</p>
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		<title>By: chairwoman</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150219</link>
		<dc:creator>chairwoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150219</guid>
		<description>Rumbold @ 28

That hardly makes it any better, it&#039;s exactly the sort of thing that this post is about.

It&#039;s not only we Jews that get the old &#039;blood libel&#039; thrown at us, it&#039;s just that we get it more often because we&#039;re deemed to be a soft target.

And &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; get me started on that one, please!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rumbold @ 28</p>
<p>That hardly makes it any better, it&#8217;s exactly the sort of thing that this post is about.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not only we Jews that get the old &#8216;blood libel&#8217; thrown at us, it&#8217;s just that we get it more often because we&#8217;re deemed to be a soft target.</p>
<p>And <i>don&#8217;t</i> get me started on that one, please!</p>
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		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150214</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150214</guid>
		<description>Rumbold, it&#039;s not a regional thing, it&#039;s a bitter, personal issue that Ashik has. 

I have close friends and family members who are from Sylhet who would be the first to distance themselves from the manifestations of the psychosis that Ashik displays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rumbold, it&#8217;s not a regional thing, it&#8217;s a bitter, personal issue that Ashik has. </p>
<p>I have close friends and family members who are from Sylhet who would be the first to distance themselves from the manifestations of the psychosis that Ashik displays.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150212</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150212</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics&lt;/em&gt;

wha? 

So the approximately 140 million people who voted in last December&#039;s elections in Bangladesh, and thereby actively endorsing party politics, are the &quot;vilest scum&quot; for you, are they?

Actually, you&#039;re the &quot;vilest scum&quot; and a complete muppet to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics</em></p>
<p>wha? </p>
<p>So the approximately 140 million people who voted in last December&#8217;s elections in Bangladesh, and thereby actively endorsing party politics, are the &#8220;vilest scum&#8221; for you, are they?</p>
<p>Actually, you&#8217;re the &#8220;vilest scum&#8221; and a complete muppet to boot.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rumbold</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150210</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumbold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150210</guid>
		<description>You have to remember Chairwoman that Sid and Ashik are from different parts of Bangladesh. Hence Ashik dislikes anyone from Sid&#039;s part (i.e. Dhaka).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to remember Chairwoman that Sid and Ashik are from different parts of Bangladesh. Hence Ashik dislikes anyone from Sid&#8217;s part (i.e. Dhaka).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chairwoman</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150209</link>
		<dc:creator>chairwoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150209</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot; Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics, especially if they don’t live in Bangladesh. Only people whose family depend on the patronage of either party to steal money from the treasury would bother doing this dirty and irrelevant politics rather than support and focus on mainstream UK political party’s.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

And here is an example of something else &#039;Universally Unacceptable&#039;, and potentially libelous to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8221; Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics, especially if they don’t live in Bangladesh. Only people whose family depend on the patronage of either party to steal money from the treasury would bother doing this dirty and irrelevant politics rather than support and focus on mainstream UK political party’s.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>And here is an example of something else &#8216;Universally Unacceptable&#8217;, and potentially libelous to boot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ashik</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150163</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150163</guid>
		<description>Anas, Sid often relies on the &#039;I&#039;m a Muslim too&#039; argument to give credibility to his views. This can also be misleading to non-Muslim&#039;s reading his articles. For example, he wrote that he was a fellow Muslim who wants the best for Muslims in his exchanges with Azad Ali when this is clearly in dispute given Sid&#039;s own earlier statements. 

I think we can all agree that an apostate will have unique reasons for criticising Islam/Muslims (and continously too). Better PP&#039;ers know his position. His views are conditioned by his choice to become an apostate. Has Sid written anything positive about Muslims, ever???

Refresh, regarding honest dealings, Sid is involved in Bangladeshi party politics. He is associated with a group called Drishtipat which claims to be a human rights group yet is heavily involved in party politics on behalf of one of the two main party&#039;s in Bangladesh. This affects Sid&#039;s stance on Bangladesh-related topics on PP since they are Pro-Awami League eg. Sid&#039;s article about the recent elections.

This is &#039;honesty&#039;. 

Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics, especially if they don&#039;t live in Bangladesh. Only people whose family depend on the patronage of either party to steal money from the treasury would bother doing this dirty and irrelevant politics rather than support and focus on mainstream UK political party&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anas, Sid often relies on the &#8216;I&#8217;m a Muslim too&#8217; argument to give credibility to his views. This can also be misleading to non-Muslim&#8217;s reading his articles. For example, he wrote that he was a fellow Muslim who wants the best for Muslims in his exchanges with Azad Ali when this is clearly in dispute given Sid&#8217;s own earlier statements. </p>
<p>I think we can all agree that an apostate will have unique reasons for criticising Islam/Muslims (and continously too). Better PP&#8217;ers know his position. His views are conditioned by his choice to become an apostate. Has Sid written anything positive about Muslims, ever???</p>
<p>Refresh, regarding honest dealings, Sid is involved in Bangladeshi party politics. He is associated with a group called Drishtipat which claims to be a human rights group yet is heavily involved in party politics on behalf of one of the two main party&#8217;s in Bangladesh. This affects Sid&#8217;s stance on Bangladesh-related topics on PP since they are Pro-Awami League eg. Sid&#8217;s article about the recent elections.</p>
<p>This is &#8216;honesty&#8217;. </p>
<p>Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics, especially if they don&#8217;t live in Bangladesh. Only people whose family depend on the patronage of either party to steal money from the treasury would bother doing this dirty and irrelevant politics rather than support and focus on mainstream UK political party&#8217;s.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150154</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150154</guid>
		<description>She&#039;d run a mile. Esp. after his piece on her turning on Ed Hussain for his support for Gaza.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She&#8217;d run a mile. Esp. after his piece on her turning on Ed Hussain for his support for Gaza.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150153</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150153</guid>
		<description>Sid loves Mad Mel? Does she know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sid loves Mad Mel? Does she know?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Katy Newton</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150151</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150151</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The validity of Sid’s arguments do not depend on who he is or what religion he is or is not.&lt;/i&gt;

Spot on.  The last time I checked, the answer to the question &quot;Is Rowan Laxton a bigot?&quot; wasn&#039;t &quot;Sid might be an apostate&quot; or &quot;Sid is dishonest in his dealings&quot; or &quot;Sid loves Melanie Phillips&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The validity of Sid’s arguments do not depend on who he is or what religion he is or is not.</i></p>
<p>Spot on.  The last time I checked, the answer to the question &#8220;Is Rowan Laxton a bigot?&#8221; wasn&#8217;t &#8220;Sid might be an apostate&#8221; or &#8220;Sid is dishonest in his dealings&#8221; or &#8220;Sid loves Melanie Phillips&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anas</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150150</link>
		<dc:creator>Anas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150150</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; If Sid is as some of believe an ex-Muslim then he needs to disclose this fact when writing articles.&lt;/i&gt;

Why? The validity of Sid&#039;s arguments do not depend on who he is or what religion he is or is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> If Sid is as some of believe an ex-Muslim then he needs to disclose this fact when writing articles.</i></p>
<p>Why? The validity of Sid&#8217;s arguments do not depend on who he is or what religion he is or is not.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150149</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150149</guid>
		<description>Which obviously applies to each one of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which obviously applies to each one of us.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150148</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150148</guid>
		<description>Ashik, it doesn&#039;t matter whether he is or isn&#039;t. What matters is whether there is honesty in his dealings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashik, it doesn&#8217;t matter whether he is or isn&#8217;t. What matters is whether there is honesty in his dealings.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ashik</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150147</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150147</guid>
		<description>I think Sid is either confused or dishonest (or both) regarding his faith. Imran Khan is quite right to highlight this. 

At one point Sid himself stated that he saw himself as &#039;technically an apostate&#039; and yet at other times claims to be a fellow Muslim. Given Sid&#039;s penchant for continously writing heavily anti-Islamic articles, I believe that this is an issue which needs to be clarified. If Sid is as some of believe an ex-Muslim then he needs to disclose this fact when writing articles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Sid is either confused or dishonest (or both) regarding his faith. Imran Khan is quite right to highlight this. </p>
<p>At one point Sid himself stated that he saw himself as &#8216;technically an apostate&#8217; and yet at other times claims to be a fellow Muslim. Given Sid&#8217;s penchant for continously writing heavily anti-Islamic articles, I believe that this is an issue which needs to be clarified. If Sid is as some of believe an ex-Muslim then he needs to disclose this fact when writing articles.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jai</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150078</link>
		<dc:creator>Jai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150078</guid>
		<description>Katy,

Just wanted to say it&#039;s good to see you back and I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve decided to stick around here (or at least pay PP a drive-by visit).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katy,</p>
<p>Just wanted to say it&#8217;s good to see you back and I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve decided to stick around here (or at least pay PP a drive-by visit).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150033</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150033</guid>
		<description>OK,

I&#039;ll try to repeat my &#039;brilliant&#039; thesis, so you can all knock it down.

What I was trying to say was that I find it a tad odd that Jews and Muslims in the UK are at loggerheads. They face similar although not identical challenges. And the BNP exploits these divisions. Nick Griffin might not be the brightest light in the chandelier but he has learned an important lesson from government - divide and conquer. 

It seems to me that the UK is now being run on a post colonialist model.

People like Sunny and Sid and Katy who do seem to believe in lateral communication between people are sidelined by communalist organisations within their own communities. And it is the &#039;community advocates&#039; that are supported by our government, not folk like bananabrain or others who try to build bridges.

So - we either accept a vertical structure, where appeals from one community to their &#039;betters&#039; in government or Whitehall are, generally ignored, or watered down or pushed onto the famous back burner - or we reject the model.

It seems to me that horizontal integration of different communities, against the neo-imperialism* - is perhaps, our last, best hope. By which I mean talking to each other without preconditions, and preferably without going through existing structures which are ossified.

And, preferably without claiming that Jews are &#039;just like the Nazi&#039;s&#039; or that Muslims &#039;want world domination&#039;. In my more optimistic moments, I like to think this site is against all of that simplistic thinking.

If this is the best that can be achieved, lets make it the very best. Lets try to argue without hate.

* neo-imperialism - in the British sense, an attempt to impose colonialist policies to the only folk they have left: us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll try to repeat my &#8216;brilliant&#8217; thesis, so you can all knock it down.</p>
<p>What I was trying to say was that I find it a tad odd that Jews and Muslims in the UK are at loggerheads. They face similar although not identical challenges. And the BNP exploits these divisions. Nick Griffin might not be the brightest light in the chandelier but he has learned an important lesson from government &#8211; divide and conquer. </p>
<p>It seems to me that the UK is now being run on a post colonialist model.</p>
<p>People like Sunny and Sid and Katy who do seem to believe in lateral communication between people are sidelined by communalist organisations within their own communities. And it is the &#8216;community advocates&#8217; that are supported by our government, not folk like bananabrain or others who try to build bridges.</p>
<p>So &#8211; we either accept a vertical structure, where appeals from one community to their &#8216;betters&#8217; in government or Whitehall are, generally ignored, or watered down or pushed onto the famous back burner &#8211; or we reject the model.</p>
<p>It seems to me that horizontal integration of different communities, against the neo-imperialism* &#8211; is perhaps, our last, best hope. By which I mean talking to each other without preconditions, and preferably without going through existing structures which are ossified.</p>
<p>And, preferably without claiming that Jews are &#8216;just like the Nazi&#8217;s&#8217; or that Muslims &#8216;want world domination&#8217;. In my more optimistic moments, I like to think this site is against all of that simplistic thinking.</p>
<p>If this is the best that can be achieved, lets make it the very best. Lets try to argue without hate.</p>
<p>* neo-imperialism &#8211; in the British sense, an attempt to impose colonialist policies to the only folk they have left: us.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/3110/comment-page-3#comment-150031</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=3110#comment-150031</guid>
		<description>Katy,

Thanks, but I was &#039;doing a Sonia&#039;, y&#039;know following up my own post :-) . I had more to say than 109 and when I edited it, it was &#039;caught in the spam filter&#039;. I don&#039;t think for a moment Sid is censoring me. I think it&#039;s technical.

Shucks, I just thought it was just one of my better comments 

I&#039;ll re-do it if it can&#039;t get pulled out of limbo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katy,</p>
<p>Thanks, but I was &#8216;doing a Sonia&#8217;, y&#8217;know following up my own post <img src='http://www.pickledpolitics.com/dablog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  . I had more to say than 109 and when I edited it, it was &#8216;caught in the spam filter&#8217;. I don&#8217;t think for a moment Sid is censoring me. I think it&#8217;s technical.</p>
<p>Shucks, I just thought it was just one of my better comments </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll re-do it if it can&#8217;t get pulled out of limbo.</p>
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