Universally Unacceptable
A senior British Foreign and Commonwealth Office diplomat has been arrested and is on bail after shouting about the “fucking Jews” at a crowded gym in London. More in the Times:
News reports today said that Rowan Laxton, 47, allegedly shouted “f***ing Israelis, f***ing Jews” while watching television reports of the Israeli attack on Gaza last month.
He is also alleged to have said that Israeli soldiers should be “wiped off the face of the Earth” during the rant at the London Business School gym near Regents Park. The Daily Mail said that the tirade continued even after other gym users asked him to stop.
The Foreign and Commonwealth Office declined to comment on the case because it was “currently subject to police inquiries”, but it is believed that Mr Laxton, who heads the FCO’s South Asia Group, is working normally.
Rowan Laxton is in charge of UK diplomatic policy in South Asia and has served in Pakistan and Afghanistan. One of his responsibilities is directly briefing David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, who is Jewish.
I think this is far more serious than Carol Thatcher’s “golliwog” comment.
When discussions on PP turns to matters in Zimbabwe, as they sometimes do, I am yet to hear anyone making a comment on the lines of “Mugabe, that fucking n****r!”. And if there were, I am pretty sure that the outrage would be universal and correct from commenters across the board, as it should be. But it is now commonplace to see racist material against Israeli leaders or Jewish people whenever the discussion has turned to the I/P affair, as it often has in the last 2 months.
Most readers of this blog would be moved to posting angrily in response to any comment which made abhorrent and aggressive racist remarks such as “pakis”, “muslims”, “wogs” or indeed any racial slur aimed at any community or race.
If this senior British diplomat were working for foreign policy in the Gulf States, and happened to rant apoplectically in a gym about “fucking pakis, fucking wogs”, there is no doubt in my mind that readers of this blog would want the man given his marching orders.
The universal reaction on PP to this scumbag should be EXACTLY the same.
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Filed in: Other racists, Race politics
If he is found guilty, he should be sacked. But they are right to let him continue working until the investigation is completed.
Its quite right he’s been brought to book but the Daily Mail?!?
Seriously these were the people who defended Carol Thatcher
And am sure the Daily Mail/The Times (or for that matter HP) reaction would be totally different if he had shouted “f*cking Muslims”. Then his being arrested would have been an affront to free speech and a sign we are losing our freedom of speech.
After all the Daily Mail defended Will Cummins who was sacked for comparing Muslims to dogs.
Perhaps I should go to their offices and shouting “f*cking hypocrites”
But then I might get arrested
Funny that he’s a diplomat, such language doesn’t seem to reflect a long and seasoned career in the aforementioned profession.
‘…after shouting about the “fucking Jews” at a crowded gym in London’
Sounds, how do you say, unstable.
So now we are living in a world where left wing papers find “golliwogs” unacceptable but make no mention of Rowan Laxton or right-wing blogs which defend Carol Thatcher’s racist slip but have picked up on this story.
If you’re going to build your values based on the editorial policy of the newspaper you read or choose not to read, then your moral compass is very badly damaged indeed.
The outburst is not very professional from a diplomat. But does anyone remember the graffiti left behind by the Israeli soldiers in Gaza? One, which I remember, was a scribbled tombstone with the words: ‘Arabs 1948-2009′. The Gaza assault was racist violence at its extreme – no wonder passions are so inflamed, even in government circles.
I did wonder but it doesn’t excuse anything, how this fucker (and he is a fucker) got as far as he has with those kind of views is a bigger story imo.
Exactly as Sid said.
Blah all the newspapers have seriously wonky values. Hamas has, again, been given a voice on the Guardian’s Comment is Free with the ground breaking title being “Hamas condemns the Holocaust”. Hamas, openly anti-semitic, given an opinion piece, and at the same time lamenting some dappy TV presenter for saying golliwog. What was you saying about hypocrites? Yes the right wing press are hypocritical, as are the left. They didn’t even report the story at the Guardian or Independent.
Is that last sentence for the HP visitors or something?
Am I right in thinking that he wasn’t even in his place of work though?
Ok, Ms_Xtreme, we’re still waiting for your impassioned defence of Rowan Laxton?
marvin
“Blah all the newspapers have seriously wonky values. Hamas has, again, been given a voice on the Guardian’s Comment is Free with the ground breaking title being “Hamas condemns the Holocaust”.”
So would you prefer it if they praised it
” Hamas, openly anti-semitic, given an opinion piece, ”
Hamas are Palestinian Arabs- That is to say semites.
They can no more be anti-semitic than a Jewish person can
“and at the same time lamenting some dappy TV presenter for saying golliwog. What was you saying about hypocrites? Yes the right wing press are hypocritical, as are the left. They didn’t even report the story at the Guardian or Independent.”
To compare the Guardian to right wing papers is unfair.
The Guardian has a range of opinions on issues. It publishes pro-Israel pieces, articles by neo-cons and articles by anti-muslim writers like Nick Cohen or Julie Burchill etc.
Right wing papers have no such variety.
It even allowed David Toube a column
What chance HP would allow an anti-zionist to post?
Wow Mad Mel is gonna have a field day with this one.
Its like Christmas and Hanukkah have come all in one
Maybe she’ll take a break from demonizing Muslims to give us her words of wisdom on how evil this is
Marvin,
In February this year the Israeli deputy defence minister Matan Vilnai threatened the people of Gaza with a “holocaust”. It is this holocast that the Hamas article condemns. This piece also goes on to condemn the Nazi holocaust and makes it clear that Hamas are not fighting Jews, but Zionist expansion.
If you are going to quote, atleast make it accurate
Why would I defend him you martian?
Prejudice is prejudice, regardless of how its used. Vocalizing prejudice is retarded.
Not wishing to speak on Sid’s behalf I should point out that we’ve seen a HUGE rise in traffic in the last 5 weeks. With that comes new people, it’s wise in that circumstance to re-iterate our basic stances.
mugabe’s point about land reform has been swamped by the white powers in a far worse way than calling him a nigger.
Apparently only white farmers can farm decent land otherwise the economy will be destroyed by the organs of international economic warfare. Calling him a nigger would have been far less evil than making land reform in ex-colonial countries politically more bitter than it could have been.
Back to the point.
The hunters for antisemitism march on. Oh dear, even FCO policy wonks are getting radicalised! Would it have made any difference if he’d said ‘zionists and zionesses’(to be gender inclusive) in his ill-mannered anger? or would you attribute that with his reading of maududi and therefore an inherent islamofascistic anti semitism?
Fuck Israel is a common thought these days. the jewish bit needs to be trained out of the system, but the sentiment against those transgressors remains. It is human nature to hate evil forces that want to take the whole world down with them unless they get their way.
Its interesting how the story has been carried, and framed no doubt quite potently by a member of the london business school who took offence and took the opportunity. An opportunity that was prompty turned into humanising ‘humour’ by the Zionist entity’s london tentacle.
I wonder how differently this will be handled than azad ali’s case. I suppose if you have enough power and people dont hate you for who you are, then you can speak rudely in public, whilst exercising and get away with it.
When I heard about 11th september 2001 attacks on the world trade centre et al in the us, it was through a bunch of builders working in my uni library…. ‘fucking palestinians’ is what they said.
I’m enchanted by how mahfuz anamesque and syed badrul ahsanesque your writing is becoming, by repeatedly prompting ‘right thinking’ views. Coached?
fug
“When I heard about 11th september 2001 attacks on the world trade centre et al in the us, it was through a bunch of builders working in my uni library…. ‘fucking palestinians’ is what they said.”
Quite. I hear “fucking Muslims” and quite often far worse online or even in person. But these people wouldnt get arrested. Seems a pretty grotesque double standard
Good post, Sid.
blah,
Hamas are Palestinian Arabs- That is to say semites.
They can no more be anti-semitic than a Jewish person can
Get a clue. Anti-semitism = anti-jewish. Has never had any other meaning.
Bishop Hill,
Unless he moonlights as a gym instructor. So what? It was a very public outburst by a dip. If true as reported, not remotely acceptable.
fug,
do tell us how Mugabe’s land reforms were swamped by the white powers. And, oh dear, we’re back to the tentacles. What are you, some kind of anti-cephalapodist?
I think this is far more serious than Carol Thatcher’s “golliwog” comment.
Indeed. In the grand scheme of things Carol Thatchers opinions are a matter of profound unimportance to the world. I rather hope that is not true of the man who “heads the FCO’s South Asia Group”.
This incident is not very reassuring.
Don
“Get a clue. Anti-semitism = anti-jewish. Has never had any other meaning.”
Says who?
The funny thing is the Ashenazi Jews who created Israel arent even racially semites. Yet they are anti-semitic against the semitic Arabs.
Arresting him is a joke, what’s the charge, having a momentary reaction to seeing genocide take place?
Assuming of course that the allegations are correct, he should be fired once the investigation is complete, or perhaps moved to another department, as the comments were not made in a working environment.
‘Says who?’ is an argument now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_Semitism
But it doesn’t need wiki to make it plain. The term was coined, and has always been used, exclusively to denote anti-jewish bigotry. It has no other meaning. Never has had.
‘This incident is not very reassuring’
Not very reassuring for whom? I rather find it reassuring that the guy who heads the FCO’s South Asian Group is in touch with reality on the ground…and is in tune with the anger against the Gaza invasion around the world. OK he needs to phrase that more diplomatically, but the message would probably be still the same (I hope).
@leon #15,
Yep, huge rise in traffic. Not all of it up to scratch.
I rather find it reassuring that the guy who heads the FCO’s South Asian Group is in touch with reality on the ground
Says it all, you racist scum bag.
…but the message would probably be still the same (I hope).
What, fucking jews? But put more diplomatically. How would you do that?
Huge rise in traffic yes, a smattering of new comments as well. I’m sure it’ll level off in time and the reasonable forces will re-assert themselves. Those worried they won’t should take the long view.
Ok let’s put it diplomatically:
‘The Israelis are on a path to suicide. They have no respect for international law, have lost the moral high ground they claim. So they have to resort to killing babies and women in one of the world’s poorest slums. But international opinion is against them and they will soon have to answer for their crimes’.
marvin
“Says it all, you racist scum bag.”
Jews arent a race. They are a religion.
One can convert and become Jewish -one cannot convert race .
The only person who considered Jews a race was Adolf Hitler. And even this was based on the RELIGION of their forefathers.
It should be drummed into every second and third generation immigrant Muslim who has chosen to take Islamist ideology to assert their identity in the social multicultural melange that we call England, that those who made the greatest contributions to fighting racism and fascism and to uphold liberal pluralism in this country have been Jewish intellectuals.
Remember that the next time you live, breath and worship in this country without having to worry about skinheads burning down our houses and mosques. Because things here could have been very different.
The only person who considered Jews a race was Adolf Hitler.
Have you ever heard of a discipline called ‘history’? Check it out sometime. But the upper case is always persuasive.
Sid, you are right, the Jews were in the front line of the fight against Mosley and his Blackshirts in the East End. But nobody is talking about Jews as such. Laxton lost it presumably watching the rain of death from IDF planes. He displayed raw emotion – the sort that any decent human being would have felt during those Gaza bombardments.
I wonder if anybody would have batted an eyelid if he had said something like ‘fucking Palestinians’ instead. Somehow I don’t think it would have been a newspaper story.
I wonder if anybody would have batted an eyelid if he had said something like ‘fucking Palestinians’ instead. Somehow I don’t think it would have been a newspaper story.
If it was by some arse crack exposing builder, then no (poor fug). But if he were an FCO diplomat, I’m damn fucking sure it would.
But nobody is talking about Jews as such.
Since when was ‘Fucking jews’ not talking about jews ‘as such’?
If, in relation to Zimbabwe, a dip had referred to ‘Fucking blacks’ would that have been not talking about Africans as such? Or would it have revealed an underlying bigotry?
Don, you are a boring and pompous pedant
New format? Or just me?
Hermes,
Words matter. One’s use of them is revealing.
BTW, you missed out the full stop in post #35.
Sid
“It should be drummed into every second and third generation immigrant Muslim who has chosen to take Islamist ideology to assert their identity in the social multicultural melange that we call England, that those who made the greatest contributions to fighting racism and fascism and to uphold liberal pluralism in this country have been Jewish intellectuals.”
Can you name some? The key tense being the past.
Nowadays Jewish “intellectuals” are at the fore front
of demonising Muslims from Richard Desmond and his rags, to Melanie Phillips, to Stephen Pollard, to Nick Cohen, to David Aaoronovitch, to the gang at Harrys Place (have I missed anyone out?). Amongst non-Jews who demonise Muslims the same slavish devotion to Israel is apparent.
And thats before we get to the US!!!
The number defending Muslims is very small. Its not difficult to reach the conclusion that they fought racism and fascism because it was anti-Jewish. Now the BNP say are anti-Muslim not anti-Jewish they are much less anti them. This is why they would rather focus on “Muslim extremism” though Muslims are 3% of the population than BNP extremism (though whites are 90%)
Indeed some extreme members like Pat Richardson join them.
Good luck telling Muslims how grateful they should be to Jewish people next time one of those people demonising us in the press.
You speak of multiculturalism but many such commentators are now anti-multiculturalism because it may benefit Muslims. Witness that arch hypocrite the
Chief Rabbi.
“Remember that the next time you live, breath and worship in this country without having to worry about skinheads burning down our houses and mosques. Because things here could have been very different.”
Except that Desmind a pillar of the Jewish community has by demonising Muslims done more to promote the BNP than perhaps any other individual.
Even Nick Griffin acknowledges this
“We should be positioning ourselves to take advantage for our own political ends of the growing wave of public hostility to Islam currently being whipped up by the mass media.”
And BTW second and third generations arent “immigrants” and Islamist is a stupid made up word
What a sheep you are Sid!
I wonder if anybody would have batted an eyelid if he had said something like ‘fucking Palestinians’
It’s not the “fucking Israelis”, racist commenter, it’s the “fucking Jews” bit.
“Fucking Palestinians”. If you like. “Fucking Israelis”. Fine, whatever you say. “Fucking Jews” — not fine. The word “Jews” is a very loaded ethnic term for all sorts of reasons. Many being systematic persecution.
In the same vein, we’d all be shocked by referring to “fucking ni**ers” because it’s sounds absolutely awful. Black people have historically suffered terribly under slavery, Jews suffered immeasurably under persecution from Christendom and then the Nazis. Asians coming to this country suffered much violence and racism in the 60’s and 70’s. We’re all ataken back when someone says the p-word in relation to Asians. We’re not shocked or disgusted however to speak of the French or the Scots. Because it doesn’t have a history of racial hatred (‘national pride’ perhaps but that’s another story).
So no, racist commenter, “Fucking Jews” isn’t the same as Fucking Just_any_group_of_people.
I understand that this will no doubt fuel the fire in the mind of the anti-semite. About using the ‘holohaux’ so that Jews can eat Palestinian babies and kill every last Arab etc.
Sid why havent you posted my criticism of your post #30
marvin
“So no, racist commenter, “Fucking Jews” isn’t the same as Fucking Just_any_group_of_people.”
effectively you are asking for a racism hierachy.
Its a kind of racist anti-racism where attacking one race is worse because their lives are more important.
It ends up sounding alot like supremacism
Muslims have suffered genocides in Europe far more recent than Jews (Bosnia etc) . Yet you wouldnt object to someone saying “fucking Muslims”
Gypsies suffered in the Holocaust as badly as the Jews.
So why isnt saying “fucking gypsyies” considered as bad.
We have been conditioned to regard some life (Jewish life) as more sacred than others. And that is truly terrible
…’kill every last Arab etc.’
I refer you to my post at #5 and #13
blah, I don’t even know you posted one. If it has been deleted, it was by one of the mods, not by me. Please post it again, I can’t get enough of your ignorant bigotry.
. Oh . I give up.
Thanks Sid!
Sid
“It should be drummed into every second and third generation immigrant Muslim who has chosen to take Islamist ideology to assert their identity in the social multicultural melange that we call England, that those who made the greatest contributions to fighting racism and fascism and to uphold liberal pluralism in this country have been Jewish intellectuals.”
Can you name some? The key tense being the past. Nowadays Jewish “intellectuals” are at the fore front of demonising Muslims from Richard Desmond and his rages, to Melanie Phillips, to Stephen Pollard, to Nick Cohen, to David Aaoronovitch, to the gang at Harrys Place (have I missed anyone out). Many non-Jewish Muslim haters follow their slavish pro-Israel line
And thats before we get to the US!!!
The number defending Muslims is very small. Its not diffiuclt to reach the conclusion that they fought racism and fascism because it was anti-Jewish. Now the BNP say are anti-Muslim not anti-Jewish they are much less anti them. This is why they would rather focus on “Muslim extremism” though Muslims are 3% of the population than BNP extremism (though whites are 90%)
Indeed some extreme members like Pat Richardson join them.
Good luck telling Muslims how grateful they should be to Jewish people next time one of those people demonising us in the press.
You speak of multiculturalism but many such commentators are now anti-multiculturalism because it may benefit Muslims. Witness that arch hypocrite the
Chief Rabbi.
“Remember that the next time you live, breath and worship in this country without having to worry about skinheads burning down our houses and mosques. Because things here could have been very different.”
Except that Desmind a pillar of the Jewish community has by demonising Muslims done more to promote the BNP than perhaps any other individual.
Even Nick Griffin acknowledges this
“We should be positioning ourselves to take advantage for our own political ends of the growing wave of public hostility to Islam currently being whipped up by the mass media.”
And BTW second and third generations arent “immigrants” and Islamist is a stupid made up word
What a sheep you are Sid!
Yet you wouldn’t object to someone saying “fucking Muslims”
Quite an assertion. I would expect the terms “fucking Muslims” or “fucking gypsyies” to get a serious kicking on this site, from Marvin as well as the rest of us. But you insist that ‘fucking jews’ is mere fair comment?
‘Fucking Libertarians’ or ‘Fucking Neo-Cons’ or ‘Fucking Commies’ or ‘Fucking Lick-spittle Running Dog Lackeys of the Bourgeoisie’ is fair comment. ‘Fucking Jews’ isn’t. Is that so hard to understand?
blahblah
Have you considered that the Jewish people you’ve listed might be reacting to Islamist demagogues such as:
Yusuf al-Qaradawi, Azzam Taimimi, Umar Bakri Muhammed, Delwar Hussain Sayeedi, Imam Ghulam Azam, Maulana Abdul Aziz, Anwar al Awlaki, Huthaifa Azzam et al
who have sanctioned the perversion of Islamic texts to legitimise the killing of innocents, non Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Jews in jihads of their own making, whilst living in this country and benefitting from the protection of this government from being tortured in their own lands by the governments of their own countries?
These bastards do not represent Muslims who came to this country for a better life for themselves and their children. They certainly don’t represent me. Some of them have even been involved with the murder of members of my family.
So give me one good reason why I should endanger mine or my childrens’ future by supporting these people? My answer would be, “Fuck You” followed by ‘Not In My Name’.
Agreed, what Rumbold said in #1.
Sid – I figured you’d jump on this and jump down everyones throats.
What he said was wrong but you flying off the handle at everyone is hardly helping now is it?
The point is to determine what was said and then see what happens.
Its a bit like your ranting at the apparent blog that wasn’t quite and you went off on one then.
I mean Polard at The JC is already hyping this up as the whole FCO being anti-Israel.
Until the Police report back you are accepting the words of papers known for their hyping of such issues.
As an aside many communities helped to make and shape this country including the fact that it isn’t as racist as many European countries so trying to imply that it was just Jews is slightly insulting to all the others. The point being that communities stood united against this including the indiginous community. What you fail to accept is that without them anti-racism wouldn’t have been successful.
I know you’ve been looking to vent at Muslims for a while as the tide turned against you in the Gaza crisis but to use a story like this for your agenda is far from constructive old chap.
The fact is someone said something they shouldn’t have and the Police are investigating and there is not need for you to be over this like a bad rash.
There are enough Jewish Muslim issues without you needing to pour your petrol on the fire.
SO Imran, somebody points out it’s particularly wrong for a government official to say “fucking Jews”, it’s “pouring petrol on the fire”.
When a BNP councillor is next caught out saying “fucking Muslims” you’ll appreciate the need to not mention this; in the name of good community relations, right?
Don, you are right, I, and I’m sure nearly all regular PP’ers, would kick someone for using such offensive language in the various contexts.
Certainly sensible and heartfelt there. I wouldn’t like to put my nose where it’s not wanted but I had no idea you’d been directly affected by these issues in that way Sid…. Excellent comment. Moving.
Sid – “Have you considered that the Jewish people you’ve listed might be reacting to Islamist demagogues such as:”
Have you considered that you are talking pants?
What you fail to comprehend is that many of the people listed blast Muslims going about their everyday lives and hide behind the piss poor defence you give them.
They write about their disgust at how Muslims have brought their culture here and hwo taht is affecting the very security of the country.
How you can even offer a defence for that type of writing is beyond me.
By defending them which many in the Jewish community don’t do you are giving them a licence to demonise Muslims – is that what you find acceptable?
Having a go at the policies of extremists is one thing but you know full well that many of them go way way beyond that and you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to defend that.
Rabbi Neuberger said that Phillips had gone over the top and you are defending her. You’ve really shown your true colours now.
I know you’ve been looking to vent at Muslims for a while as the tide turned against you in the Gaza crisis but to use a story like this for your agenda is far from constructive old chap.
We really are overflowing with the assertions tonight, aren’t we? I *am* a Muslim, Imran but the people I mentioned are religious supremacists. You can tell the difference between Nick Griffin and Rumbold, can’t you? Why is it so hard for you to tell the difference between Yusuf Qaradawi and me?
Marvin – with respect the sources for the story are papers known for their right wing tendancies and this is under police investigation.
But you want a conviction based on trial by the Daily Mail and not to wait for a police investigation to be completed.
Nothing like innocent until proven guilty.
Sid – “I *am* a Muslim, Imran but the people I mentioned are religious supremacists. You can tell the difference between Nick Griffin and Rumbold, can’t you? Why is it so hard for you to tell the difference between Yusuf Qaradawi and me?”
You are an ex-Muslim as you yourself have admitted so stop trying to pretend being one.
The subject here isn’t Yusuf Qaadawi but you’ve made it that to suit your agenda.
I’ve told you before I abhor Yusuf Qaradawi and I told you that his teacher in Madina has warned people against his deviant inperpretation of Islam.
But the point here is that extremists can’t be defended be they Muslim, Jewish, Christian etc.
Your frankly poor defence of the position of people who are not representative of the Jewish Community is nonsense.
You need to be firm against Qaradawi and Phillips et al. because they are not the type of people who should be leading voices in society. Thats my point and I don’t restrict myself to defending one and not the other. They are all stupid people.
“If it was by some arse crack exposing builder, then no (poor fug). But if he were an FCO diplomat, I’m damn fucking sure it would.”
I don’t know if thats so true, because there are a lot of steps, and power and assumptions are contained in those steps.
It requires someone occupying the same space to hear said incendiary remark.
For them to be forward enough to report it.
For the complaint to have a sympathetic ear. (and a media loud hailer.)
For the media ally and editor to be happy to publicise said informal incident.
For other people to be willing to bask in reflected righteous indignation about said press result.
These extraneous events are happening more now, because there are opportunistic ears straining to exploit these things, rather than any generally reforming social force. This is not ‘obfuscation’, just general observation of gossipy old cows of the media circus.
This is all terribly british, looking at superficial behaviour rather than seeing things deeper beneath the service. Removing obvious evil with technocratic eyewash from where you can see it, and tucking it away in the really important space.
Spitting Image where are you to cut through the crap?
I’ve travelled this old world of ours from Barnsley to Peru
I’ve had sunshine in the arctic and a swim in Tinbuktu
I’ve seen unicorns in Burma and a Yetti in Nepal
And I’ve danced with ten foot pygmies in a Montezuma hall
I’ve met the King of China and a working Yorkshire miner
But I’ve never met a nice South African.
No he’s never met a nice South African
And that’s not bloody surprising man
‘Cause we’re a bunch of arrogant b***tards
Who hate black people
I once got served in Woolies aften less than four week’s wait
I had lunch with Rowan Atkinson when he paid and wasn’t late
I know a public swimming bath where they don’t piss in the pool
I know a guy who got a job straight after leaving school
I’ve met a normal merman and a fairly modest German
But I’ve never met a nice South African.
No he’s never met a nice South African
And that’s not bloody surprising man
‘Cause we’re a bunch of talentless murderers
Who smell like baboons
I’ve had a close encounter of the twenty-second kind
That’s when an alien spaceship disappears up your behind
I got directory enquiries after less than forty rings
I’ve even heard a decent song by Paul McCartney’s Wings
I’ve seen a flying pig in a quite convincing wig
But I’ve never met a nice South African.
No he’s never met a nice South African
And that’s not bloody surprising man
‘Cause we’re a bunch of ignorant loudmouths
With no sense of humour – ha ha
I’ve met the Loch Ness monster and he looks like Fred Astaire
At the BBC in London he’s the chief commissionaire
I know a place in Glasgow which is rife with daffodillies
I met a man in Katmandu who claimed to have two willies
I’ve had a nice pot noodle but I’ve never had a poodle
And I’ve never met a nice South African.
No he’s never met a nice South African
And that’s not bloody surprising man
Because we’ve never met one either
Except for Breyten Breytenbach and he’s emigrated to Paris. (farts)
Yes he’s quite a nice South African
And he’s hardly ever killed anyone
And he’s not smelly at all.
That’s why they put him prison.
Sid @ 30. Brilliantly put. Similar to how some people like to focus on the ‘jewish, neo-conservative cabal’ and completely forget about the fact that the majority of jews have always been liberal and pluralist, and many were at the forefront of the civil rights movement.
They write about their disgust at how Muslims have brought their culture here and hwo taht is affecting the very security of the country.
A link to an article to prove that either Nick Cohen or Aaranovitch have ever written an article about “their disgust at how Muslims have brought their culture here” would save you looking like a fatuous tit now, Imran Khan.
Who’s pouring petrol over the fire now?
Any abusive remarks made on the basis of ones religous background, race, enthicity or cast are unexceptable and should, not only be condemned but also challeged, otherwise we are all bunch of hypoctrites
Rumbold is right.
The post atop itself is weak, it presumes that the vast majority would find that diplomats behaviour acceptable. And then goes on to prejudge, I presume, PP readers.
It also offers cover for ‘Israeli leaders’ and ‘Israeli army’. Neither deserve any.
Equating the n-word with the word jews is not acceptable. Being called a jew should never be considered pejorative even when its intended as such.
My last post has been deleted – Hmmmmmmm!
Sid – “I *am* a Muslim, Imran but the people I mentioned are religious supremacists. You can tell the difference between Nick Griffin and Rumbold, can’t you? Why is it so hard for you to tell the difference between Yusuf Qaradawi and me?”
Sid you are an ex-Muslim which is what you have said in the past so please stop this pretending. Please be clear either you are a Muslim or you are not which is it because on various threads you try and sit in both camps.
In addition I’ve told you in the past that I abhor Qaradawi and his Professor in Madina has warned people to not listen to him because he is deviant in Islam.
Never the less the crucial point is that all extremists are just that – extremists and there can be no defence of them and this applies be they Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Sikh etc.
Equally you keep bringing Muslim extremists into the mix as is your right of course but it may have escaped your notice that in Israel a Meir Khane supporter may soon lead the 3rd largest party in the country and the FCO may have to meet and greet him and yet not a word is said.
So we see extremes in all religions and all are to be condemned.
Sid – “A link to an article to prove that either Nick Cohen or Aaranovitch have ever written an article about “their disgust at how Muslims have brought their culture here” would save you looking like a fatuous tit now, Imran Khan.”
Ohg how selective are we.
YOu know full well who I was referring to and you were defending your love. She wrote your favourite book Londonistan which you most likely know by heart.
Whose pouring petrol now whilkst claiming it is water
You can defend those types of people if you like it shows your thinking. They can hardly be described as from the majority of Jewry in this country.
Anyway Sid can you confirm once and for all if you are a Muslim or ex-Muslim?
Hamas are Palestinian Arabs- That is to say semites.
They can no more be anti-semitic than a Jewish person can
Just thought I’d cut and paste that to make sure I’m not hallucinating. Did you actually write that?
“Have you considered that the Jewish people you’ve listed might be reacting to Islamist demagogues such as: Yusuf al-Qaradawi, Azzam Taimimi, Umar Bakri Muhammed, Delwar Hussain Sayeedi, Imam Ghulam Azam, Maulana Abdul Aziz, Anwar al Awlaki, Huthaifa Azzam et al”
Are you seriously suggesting that Omar Bakri ( one of the few people listed who actually ever lived In the UK and doesn’t know) has the same influence on the British public as Melanie Phillips or Richard Desmond?
So they only spew anti-Muslim venom because of the Islamists. Really? So why do they demonise Bengali housewives who choose to wear niqab? Or uses far right islamophobic conspiracy theories like Eurabia (the modern protocols) Why do they publish articles with titles like “Now Muslims want to teach in OUR schools”? or “Christmas cancelled because it offends Muslims” ?
Yeah Sid it’s all the Muslims fault.
Why then did they support the Iraq war Sid? It’s all about Israel
And have you every considered the people you’ve listed might have been reacting to the slaughter and oppression the Israelis and other invaders have been meting out to Muslims?
“who have sanctioned the perversion of Islamic texts to legitimise the killing of innocents, non Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Jews in jihads of their own making, whilst living in this country and benefiting from the protection of this government from being tortured in their own lands by the governments of their own countries?”
That’s a pretty big claim that they have justified killing innocents. And regarding “jihads of their own making” are you suggesting Muslim countries weren’t invaded ? Perhaps it was Abdullah Azzam who ordered the Russian to invade Afghanistan or Yusuf al Qardawi who set up the zionist movement and under the guise of Lord Balfour gave the Palestinians land to the zionists.
“These bastards do not represent Muslims who came to this country for a better life for themselves and their children. They certainly don’t represent me. Some of them have even been involved with the murder of members of my family.”
That’s truly terrible. This however is probably distorted your view why you focus more on Islamists and ignore the rampant far more dangerous Islamophobia. “Islamists” have some ideas which one could argue with; but they do not wish harm to fellow Muslims. Islamophobes do wish us harm. Great harm.
The people you defend , if you and your family were Muslims living in Gaza not the UK, would not give a shit about you all dying. Reflect on that.
This is what Melanie Phillips said about attacks on Muslims in the UK. On your family.
“Yes, there have been some attacks on Muslims which are totally reprehensible. But does that mean the subject of Islamic extremism is to be totally off limits? In any event, such attacks are just as likely to be the result of frustration with the failure to address the problem; or……..the entirely separate influx into the country of East Europeans who are — dismayingly — deeply prejudiced against black or Asian people, and would be so whatever may or may not be said in public about them.”
Reflect on this
“So give me one good reason why I should endanger mine or my childrens’ future by supporting these people? My answer would be, “Fuck You” followed by ‘Not In My Name’.”
Are you insane? When did I say you should support them. I merely responded to your absurd demand that it be “drummed into” (sounds pretty much like brainwashing) Muslims that they owe some type of servile gratitude Jewish people when many Jewish people are demonising Muslims. That’s a pretty huge leap.
“What you fail to comprehend is that many of the people listed blast Muslims going about their everyday lives and hide behind the piss poor defence you give them.
They write about their disgust at how Muslims have brought their culture here and hwo taht is affecting the very security of the country.
How you can even offer a defence for that type of writing is beyond me.”
Thank you Imran for putting it much more articulately than I ever could. Sids hatred of “Islamists” has twisted him so much that he will support anyone who attacks them -even when they are attacking all Muslims.
This is Daniel Pipes a scion of such commentators frequently quoted by them – he refereed to Muslim immigrants as “brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and not exactly maintaining Germanic standards of hygiene”
or Mark Steyn who said
“Why did Bosnia collapse into the worst slaughter in Europe since World War Two? In the thirty years before the meltdown, Bosnian Serbs had declined from 43 percent to 31 percent of the population, while Bosnian Muslims had increased from 26 percent to 44 percent. In a democratic age, you can’t buck demography—except through civil war. The Serbs figured that out—as other Continentals will in the years ahead: if you can’t outbreed the enemy, cull ’em. The problem that Europe faces is that Bosnia’s demographic profile is now the model for the entire continent.”
Sid is appeasing such people in the name of anti-Islamism
shariq:
Sid @ 30. Brilliantly put. Similar to how some people like to focus on the ‘jewish, neo-conservative cabal’ and completely forget about the fact that the majority of jews have always been liberal and pluralist, and many were at the forefront of the civil rights movement.
It’s utterly shameful. If Azzam Taimimi knew how much his existence in the UK is lent to such Jewish luminaries such as Isaiah Berlin, Max Black, Ernest Gellner, Brian Klug, Karl Popper etc, he’d hang himself with the nearest piece of cord.
“Rabbi Neuberger said that Phillips had gone over the top and you are defending her. You’ve really shown your true colours now.”
An excellent point. Jonathan Freeland as well as many liberal commentators have strongly criticised “Mad Mel”
but Sid defends her
Astonishing
Right own up, who flexed their muscle and deleted the last ten comments?
Bastards! someone deleted mine too. Probably the right thing to do, since you people were arguing over nothing.
I deleted about 30 comments because, hey, I drink babysham.
The language is unacceptable – saying “fucking jews” is as bad as saying “fucking muslims” in my opinion.
I would get involved in the wider debate above but I don’t have the time or the inclination to, as it seems to be the usual arguments going around
Sid you turd. why did you delete my comments for. Just because you got dissed in that other thread, why delete my comments here?
My comment mentioned in the simplest terms;
– The use of such langauge is wrong
– I don’t see how it’s an arrestable offence
– If found guilty he should be removed from his job
– As the comment was made out or work, that might be difficult
Where the f**k is the offence in that? Damned Bongo.
platinum678
I have a record of all the comments I deleted and I have to let you know there is no comment on there by you. The only comment you’ve made on this thread is still at #21.
I notice you’ve tossed a nasty racist insult at me. That one I *will* retain if only to demonstrate how little room for complaint racists like you have when you’re called a “smelly inbred paki” by the BNP.
However, I will demand an apology from you o/w you’re banned from commenting on my posts.
No one can failed to be impressed by Sid who when losing an argument and unable to defend his corner resorts to deleting critical comments.
Truly pathethic.
I have never seen anything like it. Pickled politics indeed.
“As the comment was made out or work, that might be difficult”
This one is a no brainer IF it is found that he said this then he should leave. Several reasons why:
As a diplomat making such a comment damages his credibility (including that of the diplomatic service) and conflicts his purpose
Yes it was outside of work but in a public place within earshot of others. Being a diplomat you are never really off duty – in fact more is expected of you as a role model
Competency – his job is to ease matters not incite them – being undiplomatic at the least, racist more strongly in a public place does not fit the remit. This also shows a serious lack of judgement on his part
Sid, thanks for this post.
PP was beginning to look like the collected works of blah/flanker – an ignorant bigot who seems to aggressively dominate your comments boards.
And B/F, re your comment that “Jewish “intellectuals” are at the fore front of demonising Muslims from … Nick Cohen, to David Aaoronovitch” do you know that neither of them are Jewish? Just a degree of Jewish descent shown by their last names.
But it’s their Jewish “blood” that gets you going though, isn’t it? You anti-semitic prat.
‘I deleted about 30 comments because, hey, I drink babysham.’
That explains a lot more than you deleting 30 comments.
Sid, Don & Tevya,
Assuming that you’ve been following my little chat with “Blah” on Sid’s recent Al-Jazeera thread, I’d refer you to that particular debate (particularly towards the end) for a greater insight on the guy’s mentality, especially his hypocrisy.
Mr Blah, who would probably qualify for being the worst poker player in the world and someone you definitely shouldn’t take on a hustling trip to Vegas were it not for the fact that he’d start quoting assorted medieval Muslim scholars on the “horrors of gambling” whilst simultaneously accusing you of hating Muslims for not inviting him along in the first place, has ended up openly laying all his cards on the table in relation to his real attitudes and agenda.
It’s actually all pretty straightforward, once you untangle his obfuscation, lying and incompetent attempts at mind-games.
That explains a lot more than you deleting 30 comments.
Really, what does it explain to you?
There has been the odd comment caught in spam recently. Apologies to anyone affected. None of the writers are afraid to debate things, and if we delete comments, we explain why, and don’t pretend that we know nothing about it. Therefore, people accusing Sid of deleting comments are plain wrong.
Can you name some? The key tense being the past: blah read some of the following books and you will find a long and shining roll call of such people:
From Rudolf Rocker to the Battle of Cable Street the Jewish East End has a radical past unique to Britain. Bill Fishman has authored such works as ‘East End Jewish Radicals’ and ‘The Streets of East London’, which bring to life the tales of the political struggles of anarchism, socialism, communism and anti-fascism.
These books show that over and above fighting virulent antisemitism, the Jewish East end radicals fought in solidarity with the dockworkers and other workers, and were key in establishing trade unions for all.
BLAH:-
“Hamas are Palestinian Arabs- That is to say semites.
They can no more be anti-semitic than a Jewish person can”…………………………………………………………….you blithering idiot.
Rumbold, so Sid didn’t delete any comments? He says he did (under the influence of course).
Sid, I am genuinely really sorry.
Like an idiot, i read through the topic, missed my comment and got well p1ssed off assuming you had deleted it.
My reaction was OTT, and unpleasant, and for that i do sincerely apologise.
I know we have our differences, and after not seeing my response at first glance I assumed you deleted it as you may have been annoyed at a sly remark I made in another topic.
It’s not often I apologise, but in this case, I couldn’t be more in the wrong. Also note I’m not apologising because of any threat of being banned etc, you can work around that if you really want too, but rather because i caused genuine offence, for no reason whatsoever.
Rumbold
I did delete yet another boring and pointless exchange between Imran Khan (Avi Cohen) and “blah”.
They consisted mostly of circular arguments consisting of accusations questioning my Muslim-ness for attacking radical Islamists and,of course, yet more justification for the existence anti-semitism blamed on the writings of Melanie Philips. I know, ridiculous to the point of lunacy.
As if the same people would justify anti-Muslim bigotry for the writings and speeches of Delwar Hussain Sayeedi or Yusuf Qaadawi whose virulent hate-inciting messages can go unremarked.
Rumbold, so Sid didn’t delete any comments? He says he did (under the influence of course).
No I wasn’t “under the influence of course” Refresh. The “babysham” comment is in reference to an old 90s ad in which babysham implies tough, mean quality. It was self-deprectary humour. Humour? Mean anything to you? You know, laughter?
Sid, your #84 is unnecessary. You should have just corrected Rumbold and left it at that.
Its not good to have deleted the exchanges between you, Imran and Blah and then go on to ’summarise’ their views. They may now decide you have misrepresented them.
Refresh, I can also say they were misrepresenting me by insinuation. Just as you’re insinuating that I deleted them because I was drunk.
Which is why I deleted the off-topic posts. I notice on another thread, you were complaining about my off-topic posts because they “diluted” the quality of this site. So I used your high standards and deleted them. I’m sure you understand.
Sid, I was trying to inject humour.
I would say Babysham was the original alcopop. Pretending to be champagne, was actually perry.
Well that is cleared up then. Moving on…
Here’s a very interesting article by Ian Buruma about the anti-semitism in South East Asia. Takes a look at anti-semitic literature and sentiment amongst Chinese, Japanese, Malaysians and Filipinos in spite of there being no religious root for anti-semitism in these cultures.
‘in which babysham implies tough, mean quality.’
I will now forever picture you as bambi with D&G sunglasses, leaping across my screen leaving behind a sparkling trail.
Moving on..
And I can’t seem to get the picture of Inayat Bunglawala out of my mind whenever I read your comments.
And I thought you had a sense of humour.
what can I say, Bunglawala makes me laugh.
Touche.
Lets get back on track.
I like the look of your link to the Buruma article. Promises to be interesting, never had the opportunity to consider how anti-semitism might percolate and spread. Is contagion spread in the same way as racism?
>Fuck Israel is a common thought these days.
Especially among ignoramuses who can’t form coherent arguments.
I rather find it reassuring that the guy who heads the FCO’s South Asian Group is in touch with reality on the ground…and is in tune with the anger against the Gaza invasion around the world.
Foreign policy in grunts and curses? Very European.
Ohad,
Those who are well educated, articulated and quite diplomatic try to be fair and rational about the issue…but, you know what, it still comes out as FUCK ISRAEL!!! Don’t you wonder why?
I think Sid put it right
‘It’s utterly shameful. If Azzam Taimimi knew how much his existence in the UK is lent to such Jewish luminaries such as Isaiah Berlin, Max Black, Ernest Gellner, Brian Klug, Karl Popper etc, he’d hang himself with the nearest piece of ‘
Antisemitism was strong generally in prewar Europe (both first and second)(and in USA), but one of the main reasons that it changed was that a lot of the jewish immigrants was very active in in the working class and socialist movements.The same happened to first groups of palestenian and kurd immigrants in western europe from the sixties and onward. And thats one of the reasons, that the palestenians do have a lot of support ( and get an incredible amonut of economic support.
But – sorry to say – the rule of the game has changed, the islamic or religious turn has changed that.There’s no connection between Hamas and the general european public, and there will never be.
Sid
“It’s utterly shameful. If Azzam Taimimi knew how much his existence in the UK is lent to such Jewish luminaries such as Isaiah Berlin, Max Black, Ernest Gellner, Brian Klug, Karl Popper etc, he’d hang himself with the nearest piece of cord.”
How do you think Jewish Islamophobes feel when they know how much their existence as a people is due to Islamic rule- the Jews in Christian Europe having been virtually wiped out?
Sunny – “Bastards! someone deleted mine too. Probably the right thing to do, since you people were arguing over nothing.”
No we were not arguing over nothing and the fact you dismiss it as so is ludicrous.
Your editor was bang out of order and the fact that he was and continues to smear people and then hide by deleting comments is a disgrace and something you need to look at.
Anyone and I mean anyone who disagrees with him is subject to accusations which are libelous. Calling people Islamist when he has no such proof is way beyond debate and is smearing people.
So please don’t dismiss this as nothing.
Also his claim that people were posting off topic is laughable as he himself took the subject off topic. Having been unable to say much against Muslims for so many weeks due to Gaza he finally let off and it was a disgrace.
Asking if he is a Muslim is legitimate if he himself as you well know has said in the past that he doesn’t follow the faith but more the culture when he is claiming he is Muslim.
Calling people Islamists and Takfiri’s when he has no such evidence and people haven’t made Takfir of him is smear. The people commenting haven’t supported Islamists but disagree with him so that doesn’t make them Islamists and he is smearing people by saying that.
So either get him to put up his evidence or get him to stop this. As I have said to you before debate the point not smear the people.
If he can’t do that then he shouldn’t be here and deleting comment to hide his behaviour simply shows a disregard for people to see him for what he is.
So again either ask him to prove his point or ask him to stop his increasingly over the top labelling of people as Islamist and other such nonsense.
What a lot of whataboutery!
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2005/02/glossary_what_i.php
Going from that link, is it possible to postulate that whataboutery can be another form of whataboutery?
This comment from Paulie’s link captured it pretty well:
‘Whataboutry, as practiced in these environs, is making a historical metaphor bear the weight of an argument which is absurd when stated in it’s own terms.
Slugger threads get long enough to give your Pentium a hernia when these tortured metaphors are broken on the racks of tenuous argument.
It is also boring as hell.’
Especially the last sentence.
I read those comments before deletion. The world is not a poorer place for their loss.
@Hermes #98
Don’t you wonder why?
Not in your case.
I read those comments before deletion. The world is not a poorer place for their loss.
Seconded.
You would never catch me excusing blatant Islamophobia on the basis of the actions of Muslim states. I personally think that that sort of intellectual laziness is despicable, whether you’re abusing “the fucking Muslims” because of 9/11, “the fucking blacks” for Zimbabwe, “the fucking whites” for the BNP or “the fucking Jews” for Israel.
This is Prejudice 101, people. It’s not complicated. All of those phrases are racist if you are using them to suggest that an entire race or people is responsible for what individuals or groups within that race or people do. It really is that simple.
I am disappointed to see people trying to do the equivalent here, and suggesting that Sid is a defective or inadequate Muslim, or in some sort of impassioned threeway with Melanie Phillips and Nick Cohen, because he refuses to descend to that level.
Whatever you think of the actions of the Israeli government, British Jews are entitled to use their local gym without a soundtrack of foul-mouthed abuse, and they are also entitled to expect that those who handle high-level foreign policy on their and everyone else’s behalf are what the Foreign Office claims it is – diplomatic and neutral.
Katy – “I am disappointed to see people trying to do the equivalent here, and suggesting that Sid is a defective or inadequate Muslim, or in some sort of impassioned threeway with Melanie Phillips and Nick Cohen, because he refuses to descend to that level.”
Wow hold on – Sid started by falsely accusing people of being Islamists and it isn’t the first time and you haven’t even made mention of that. That is a smear on people’s character and why is he hurling this out without any rebuke.
Secondly noone implied that Sid was a defective or inadequate Muslim – the point is that people including myself want to know if he is or not because of his own statements.
Allowing Sid off scott free for what amounts to smears on peoles characters shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone. Calling someone a F’ing Jew is unacceptable and falsely labelling people Islamists is just as unacceptable and you know full well he has done it on many occassions.
I’ve never associated with any Islamist and never give them time of day. Yet I’ve been labelled and you are quiet about this which I find disturbing. It is a smear and it needs to be stopped. The fact people are allowing him to get away with this is crazy.
It isn’t part of debate and is an insult. If you find that acceptable then I am shocked.
I’d also highlight he called people Takfiri’s which again is a slur and smear and again this is going by without comment. As much as people dislike anti-semitism well this is a similar insult and its being tolerated from an editor who is continually allowed to get away with such behaviour.
Either ask him to prove it or rebuke him but don’t let him get away with such nasty baseless accusations.
Katy – “Whatever you think of the actions of the Israeli government, British Jews are entitled to use their local gym without a soundtrack of foul-mouthed abuse, and they are also entitled to expect that those who handle high-level foreign policy on their and everyone else’s behalf are what the Foreign Office claims it is – diplomatic and neutral.”
Agreed but if it is to be neutral then apply it both ways. Why is the Foreign Office briefing Jewish Organisations and won’t talk to Muslim Organisations?
Please tell me how many meetings Miliband has had with each communities organistions?
He has written to the Board of Deputies and no mention of equivalent letters to Muslim organisations. So where is the neutrality and diplomacy there?
Not exactly off topic, but it might seem so.
I was quite astonished that Vidal Sassoon, he of hairdressing products fame, fought against the Fascists in London in the 40’s. People forget the point that Sid made, or perhaps they just never knew it.
To answer Imran Kahns point, I’d prefer it if the government didn’t engage with community leaders – read: religious conservatives – as it is a failed policy. I’d prefer it if they talked directly to citizens without intermediaries of any stripe.
They are, I think, using a colonial model on us. And it stinks to high heaven.
Same as it always was, I suppose.
British Jews and all other decent British folk. No one, Jew or non Jew, should have to see shit like that fucking idiot.
It is a tad surprising to me that Jews and Muslims cannot see the common enemy in the BNP and its’ fellow travelers. Nick Griffin may be a horrible little man, but he has learned the principle of divide and conquer quite well. That he could see the effectiveness of that policy from a Labour government is quite instructive. If their are no cross community – call it lateral if you like – links between individuals then we are forced into a vertical structure where the only appeal is vertical, from subjects to masters.
Compartmentalization as a management tool for Whitehall.
There are very few folk advocating the lateral links that are necessary for stronger social cohesion in the face of a colonialist state model. The definition of colonies having now been reduced to the communities of the UK.
Which is why I like, inter alia, this site. It argues against that bullshit.
Imran Khan
Here’s an offer of conciliation: I won’t smear you a takfiri Islamist if you don’t try to insinuate that I’m not Muslim enough for you to criticise Islamists and their ideology.
Is that a deal?
Sid,
Any particular reason my post is caught in the spam filter?
Sid – “Here’s an offer of conciliation: I won’t smear you a takfiri Islamist if you don’t try to insinuate that I’m not Muslim enough for you to criticise Islamists and their ideology.
Is that a deal?”
Sid may I explain once again that I am not saying you are not Muslim enough. I am asking a question because of some of the statements you have made in the past if you are Muslim.
That would be similar to you asking me if I was an Islamist. I asked a question, you made a statement of fact – thats the difference. I even explained why I asked the question because I was confused by previous statements you had made. So I asked a question. I didn’t say you were not Muslim enough.
You’ve now said you are Muslim so that is enough for me. It is not for me or anyone to judge whether you are Muslim enough and in the eyes of God it may be me who is not Muslim enough.
I don’t care if you do or don’t believe in democracy as there is much dispute amongst Muslims in this area and you’ve made your position clear.
Like you I believe in rights for all.
I don’t associate with Islamists and don’t make Takfir of anyone.
I can’t be clearer than that but again I’ve never said you are not Muslim enough.
Oh and to rest another issue I am not Jewish and I am not Avi Cohen though I’ve avoided commenting on that because again it is a petty issue.
The reason I know so much about faiths is because I have many close friends from many faiths.
@douglas: isn’t it no. 109? I’m sure Sid isn’t censoring you.
@Leon: totally.
@Imran: no no no, you weren’t one of the people I meant at all. You said right back at the beginning that you didn’t think that what Rowan Thingy said was right.
Katy,
Thanks, but I was ‘doing a Sonia’, y’know following up my own post
. I had more to say than 109 and when I edited it, it was ‘caught in the spam filter’. I don’t think for a moment Sid is censoring me. I think it’s technical.
Shucks, I just thought it was just one of my better comments
I’ll re-do it if it can’t get pulled out of limbo.
OK,
I’ll try to repeat my ‘brilliant’ thesis, so you can all knock it down.
What I was trying to say was that I find it a tad odd that Jews and Muslims in the UK are at loggerheads. They face similar although not identical challenges. And the BNP exploits these divisions. Nick Griffin might not be the brightest light in the chandelier but he has learned an important lesson from government – divide and conquer.
It seems to me that the UK is now being run on a post colonialist model.
People like Sunny and Sid and Katy who do seem to believe in lateral communication between people are sidelined by communalist organisations within their own communities. And it is the ‘community advocates’ that are supported by our government, not folk like bananabrain or others who try to build bridges.
So – we either accept a vertical structure, where appeals from one community to their ‘betters’ in government or Whitehall are, generally ignored, or watered down or pushed onto the famous back burner – or we reject the model.
It seems to me that horizontal integration of different communities, against the neo-imperialism* – is perhaps, our last, best hope. By which I mean talking to each other without preconditions, and preferably without going through existing structures which are ossified.
And, preferably without claiming that Jews are ‘just like the Nazi’s’ or that Muslims ‘want world domination’. In my more optimistic moments, I like to think this site is against all of that simplistic thinking.
If this is the best that can be achieved, lets make it the very best. Lets try to argue without hate.
* neo-imperialism – in the British sense, an attempt to impose colonialist policies to the only folk they have left: us.
Katy,
Just wanted to say it’s good to see you back and I’m glad you’ve decided to stick around here (or at least pay PP a drive-by visit).
I think Sid is either confused or dishonest (or both) regarding his faith. Imran Khan is quite right to highlight this.
At one point Sid himself stated that he saw himself as ‘technically an apostate’ and yet at other times claims to be a fellow Muslim. Given Sid’s penchant for continously writing heavily anti-Islamic articles, I believe that this is an issue which needs to be clarified. If Sid is as some of believe an ex-Muslim then he needs to disclose this fact when writing articles.
Ashik, it doesn’t matter whether he is or isn’t. What matters is whether there is honesty in his dealings.
Which obviously applies to each one of us.
If Sid is as some of believe an ex-Muslim then he needs to disclose this fact when writing articles.
Why? The validity of Sid’s arguments do not depend on who he is or what religion he is or is not.
The validity of Sid’s arguments do not depend on who he is or what religion he is or is not.
Spot on. The last time I checked, the answer to the question “Is Rowan Laxton a bigot?” wasn’t “Sid might be an apostate” or “Sid is dishonest in his dealings” or “Sid loves Melanie Phillips”.
Sid loves Mad Mel? Does she know?
She’d run a mile. Esp. after his piece on her turning on Ed Hussain for his support for Gaza.
Anas, Sid often relies on the ‘I’m a Muslim too’ argument to give credibility to his views. This can also be misleading to non-Muslim’s reading his articles. For example, he wrote that he was a fellow Muslim who wants the best for Muslims in his exchanges with Azad Ali when this is clearly in dispute given Sid’s own earlier statements.
I think we can all agree that an apostate will have unique reasons for criticising Islam/Muslims (and continously too). Better PP’ers know his position. His views are conditioned by his choice to become an apostate. Has Sid written anything positive about Muslims, ever???
Refresh, regarding honest dealings, Sid is involved in Bangladeshi party politics. He is associated with a group called Drishtipat which claims to be a human rights group yet is heavily involved in party politics on behalf of one of the two main party’s in Bangladesh. This affects Sid’s stance on Bangladesh-related topics on PP since they are Pro-Awami League eg. Sid’s article about the recent elections.
This is ‘honesty’.
Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics, especially if they don’t live in Bangladesh. Only people whose family depend on the patronage of either party to steal money from the treasury would bother doing this dirty and irrelevant politics rather than support and focus on mainstream UK political party’s.
” Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics, especially if they don’t live in Bangladesh. Only people whose family depend on the patronage of either party to steal money from the treasury would bother doing this dirty and irrelevant politics rather than support and focus on mainstream UK political party’s.”
And here is an example of something else ‘Universally Unacceptable’, and potentially libelous to boot.
You have to remember Chairwoman that Sid and Ashik are from different parts of Bangladesh. Hence Ashik dislikes anyone from Sid’s part (i.e. Dhaka).
Ask any Bengali you know, only the vilest scum get actively involved in Bangladeshi party politics
wha?
So the approximately 140 million people who voted in last December’s elections in Bangladesh, and thereby actively endorsing party politics, are the “vilest scum” for you, are they?
Actually, you’re the “vilest scum” and a complete muppet to boot.
Rumbold, it’s not a regional thing, it’s a bitter, personal issue that Ashik has.
I have close friends and family members who are from Sylhet who would be the first to distance themselves from the manifestations of the psychosis that Ashik displays.
Rumbold @ 28
That hardly makes it any better, it’s exactly the sort of thing that this post is about.
It’s not only we Jews that get the old ‘blood libel’ thrown at us, it’s just that we get it more often because we’re deemed to be a soft target.
And don’t get me started on that one, please!
Sid and Chairwoman:
Sorry, I should have phrased that better. I didn’t mean that all Sylhetis dislike all Dhakaris, but you (Sid) have to admite that one of the main reasons Ashik dislikes you is because of your origins.
In Bangladesh politics & activism for party is for personal gain only. Ordinary people are caught in between the corruption and violence. If you are lucky enough to live abroad Sid then count your blessings and leave well alone.
Actually, deep aversion of people to the corruption riddden, nepotistic, irrelevant, slogan-heavy policy-light tribal Bangladeshi party politics transcends the Sylheti-Dhakaiya divide.
People always vote against the incumbent party because of the corruption. Not for nothing was Bangladesh found the most corrupt country by Transparancy International five years on the trot!
Sid is only able to get away with blatantly biased and dishonest articles on Bangladesh which are Pro-Awami League because this is a non-Bengali site and he knows a few people eg. Katy newton, outside the forum.
Rumbold, I really can’t say there is anything lower than pretending to be a human rights group (supposed to be neutral/apolitical) while cheerleading electral victory for one party in the polarised political arena of Bangladesh. Sid and his ilk actually do harm to the vibrant NGO sector in Bangladesh by making them controversial. As for Sylhetis, ask Sid if his group can attract any Sylheti speakers in the UK! LoL
Ashik:
You frequently stereotype a whole group of people. I don’t think that counts as a legitimate criticism.