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    Time for another riot?


    by Sunny on 11th February, 2006 at 10:58 pm    

    I hear some people aren’t too happy that PokerGuru has Guru Nanak (founder of the Sikh faith for the uninitiated) holding a deck of cards and promoting gambling. The website is part of London based PartyPoker. We do not advise burning their offices down, at least until a few letters of protest have been sent.



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    48 Comments below   |  

    1. suni — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:22 pm  

      I can see what they have done, they’ve googled images of the word “guru” and come across guru nanak dev ji, unfortunatly they probably dont know who he is or what he represents to sikhs.

    2. Jay Singh — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:24 pm  

      People who are offended should send polite e-mails - let’s not see this turn into a big unneccesary brouhaha with the media flaming things up.

    3. suni — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:31 pm  

      no contact info on the website in question. sunny can you not remove the link, no need for the site to get more hits than it would normally.

    4. El Cid — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:37 pm  

      nail em up, i say, nail em up!
      tut tut. I shouldn’t laugh but given the circumstances….
      A little word in the shell-like of this gentleman might be in order:
      Director Communications
      John Shepherd
      +44 (0)207 337 0100
      ir@partygaming.com

    5. Jay Singh — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:46 pm  

      That website is not actually part of Party Poker. I think it is a separate site.

    6. El Cid — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:47 pm  

      I can’t open the link

    7. Jay Singh — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:47 pm  

      Yeah - it is a separate site altogether.

    8. El Cid — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:50 pm  

      aw, lemme see it!

    9. Jay Singh — on 11th February, 2006 at 11:51 pm  

      Just google it dude.

    10. El Cid — on 12th February, 2006 at 12:00 am  

      found it. there are several versions. it’s the U.S. one that is the one in question. yes, it is separate. it is an aggregator of various gambling sites. still, the gentleman i mentioned previously is from partygaming, which is the parent company of partypoker and is listed in London.
      they might say that the can’t do anything about it. nonetheless, they are unlikely to want their rep sullied. i believe they are a FTSE 100 company these days, would you believe, so it could be profitable route to take if anyone wanted it removed

    11. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 12:46 am  

      Sunny

      You may as well amend the post - the website is not affiliated with PartyPoker

    12. mirax — on 12th February, 2006 at 1:34 am  

      Wait a sec. What makes that image that of Guru Nanak? What specifically?

    13. Robert — on 12th February, 2006 at 1:38 am  

      The site seems to be promoting knowledge, success, a global outlook, and even condemns cheating. What’s wrong with that? :-)

    14. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 1:41 am  

      mirax

      It is a famous portrait of Guru Nanak by the artist Sobha Singh.

    15. Rohin — on 12th February, 2006 at 1:58 am  

      I know it’s not part of Party Poker (think we could set up a deal with them? PP and PP?) but doesn’t an Indian run Party Poker or something like that? I recall a brown chap chucking chips in the air in TIME magazine and the legend saying something about Party Poker being hot shit.

    16. Sunny — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:01 am  

      Rohin - indeedy. In fact the software coder behind PartyPoker, and one of the marketing guys I think were both Indian. They partnered up with two Americans, though I think the Indian two had bigger shares in the company as they set up the back-end etc. Now billionaires I think.

      Robert - lol! true, I didn’t think of it like that.

    17. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:05 am  

      Billionaires?? Off a poker website??

    18. Sunny — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:08 am  

      And I’ve said ‘I think’ three times in the above post. wtf?

    19. mirax — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:09 am  

      I googled images of the Guru. I thought that there may be some uniformity to how the guru was portrayed and key distinguishing features. There is, sort of : elderly gentleman, white/black beard, long robes (colour varies), halo (most often), beads,mudras (often) clear sikh symbols elsewhere in the pic (often).

      This particular pic has had the clearly religious accoutrements removed, if you notice. It is just an old bloke in long robes- he could any generic shia imam if you so please. You only recognise it as the Guru if you are familiar with one artist’s - Jay says, Sobha S- creation. There may be grounds for copyright violation but beyond that?

    20. Sunny — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:10 am  

      Party Poker was the first big gambling website to list on the NY Stock Exchange AFAIK (or was it on FTSE?). Either way, I believe the price the company was valuing at was around 5.5 billion dollars, and one of the guys had shares worth around a billion. Can’t recall the current stock price.

    21. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:11 am  

      mirax

      It is obvious the guy googled ‘Guru’ and found this portrait of Guru Nanak to his liking. Every Sikh recognises this painting.

    22. mirax — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:12 am  

      heh you ALWAYS make money off gambling, esp the virtual sort, less overheads.

    23. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:16 am  

      A while back a lingerie company in America was putting pictures of Hindu Gods on the crotches of thongs. A Hindu advocacy group raised a petition and campaigned for it to be stopped, and they did cease those designs.

      This website is based in America so it is up to American Sikh advocacy groups to approach the website owners.

    24. Rohin — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:17 am  

      Online poker is HUGE Jay. I personally know two friends who’ve lost thousands online. I’m just glad I dislike gambling of any description, I’ve never been tempted.

      Shame I’ve got a crack habit though.

    25. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:19 am  

      Rohin

      I am a freakin’ e-bay addict. I lose enough money on that. If I knew how to play poker I reckon I’d be screwed. As it is, I don’t even understand how to play the fruit machine down the pub.

    26. Rohin — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:21 am  

      Jay that lingerie company was European, an Italian designer called Roberto Cavalli was working for a London-based manufacturer.

    27. mirax — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:25 am  

      Hindu gods on the crotches of thongs, hmmn, not that inappropriate considering what some of the gods got up to. Puritans and killjoys everywhere with no sense of perspective.

    28. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:29 am  

      Desi DNA a couple of weeks ago had an article on religious icons in fashion. They took pictures of Hindu Gods in some designs and showed them to white fashion designers and asked them if they think this is offensive? And the fashion designers, all Hippy types, said, no, its wonderful, we are free to use Hindu Gods on underpants, we are subverting this and that. Then they showed a fashion show of women wearing a burka covering the top half of their body and naked underneath. The fashion designers shit their pants and said ‘Oooh no, now that’s out of order!’ LoL

      Then they showed the Hindu Human Rights group who campaigned against a French fashion house who put Lord Ram on some shoes - they even showed a demonstration by them outside the French embassy, interestingly enough. The company agreed to withdraw the shoes after pressure and gave the unsold stock to the Hindu Human Rights people, and then they showed them peeling the tracings of Lord Ram off the shoes whilst they said mantras.

      Not bad though - a few hundred pairs of French shoes to keep afterwards though.

    29. Rohin — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:31 am  

      I hardly think you have to be a puritan to object to that. I don’t believe in God and I think that was stupid. The designer had no concept of what ‘Hindu gods got up to’, he just thought “oooh pretty pictures”. I thought campaigns against T-shirts and lunchboxes were over the top, but underwear is in poor taste. HOWEVER, I wouldn’t have asked him to withdraw the knickers, the right to offend should be protected. But to dismiss anyone who objects as a puritan killjoy with no sense of perspective is just as short-sighted.

    30. Sunny — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:38 am  

      Shame I’ve got a crack habit though.

      Worryingly, it ain’t the coke kind either, is it?

    31. Rohin — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:48 am  

      I know you’re trying to make some funny gag Sunshine, but it all falls down cos crack isn’t coke, it’s crack. If you’d've said cocaine it would’ve been obvious you were insinuating I like the butt-variety of crack. However, the joke’s on you now my boy, the joke’s on you. Sort of. Ah bedtime. I can’t be bothered to reply to your email dude, so I’ll just say - yeah it’s all fine now.

      Good night!.

    32. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:50 am  

      I know this is OT but I’ve just been reading this article in the Independent on Sunday on the fastest growing ethnic minority in Britain - Poles

      According to the Federation of Poles in Great Britain, the total number of people with a “Polish connection” could be as high as 750,000, equal in size to the Pakistani community and bigger than the Caribbean population, which is about 560,000.

    33. Sunny — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:58 am  

      Shut it - you know it made sense and you got the jist of it…. so job done! :P

      Jay - damn, will have to check that out… but “Polish connection” sounds a bit of a loose term…

    34. Rohin — on 12th February, 2006 at 10:45 am  

      Jay thanks for that, I wanted to write an article about that a while ago, but had no figures. I’ll check it out when I get a chance. The idea first came to me w/r doctors and plumbers. Doctors from the subcontinent have a much harder time getting a job here now in comparison with plumbers from the EU who just walk in. Both are jobs we need more people doing.

      I also wanted to subtly broach the subject of skin colour - how a big influx of immigrants is occurring right now but no one seems to mind as they’re white. Ooh crikey, I sounded like Angry Asian Man just then.

    35. El Cid — on 12th February, 2006 at 11:03 am  

      but no one seems to mind
      That’s not really true. There’s been reportage after reportage on the telly on the very subject of EU immigration. Where you been? Asian paranoia? *braces for virtual battering*. In fact, it is thought to have been a key factor behind France’s rejection of the new EU constitution, remember?
      Rohin, do you skip past the European news section of the papers you read, or is it just Loaded, New Scientist, Asian Doctor and PP that you read these days?
      I can’t be bothered to provide links. It’s my eldest son’s birthday and I’m on Quasar duty. Just trust me.
      As for partypoker, as I’ve already said, ther are part of a company called PartyGaming, which is listed in London. They floated a few months ago. Very active stock, yada, yada, yada

    36. El Cid — on 12th February, 2006 at 11:04 am  

      se allo tu ma li’el fren!!

    37. Rohin — on 12th February, 2006 at 11:15 am  

      El Cid, yes it was a lazy sentence on my part. Not ‘no one seems to mind’ but you can’t deny that Polish immigrants are treated somewhat differently to previous waves of immigrants. Irrespective, I didn’t want to dwell on that point as I’m not one of those paranoid brown types who scream racist. I’m just apprehensive about how easy it is for those from the EU to vanish once they’ve come to the country. I’ve given the example before, but 95 Polish plumbers were registered in Britain last year. 95 in total. There are probably 95 plumbers in my borough alone.

      Loaded? THAT’S the kind of allegation that WILL get you a virtual battering! And please send me some copies of Asian Doctor, I’d love to read it ;)

    38. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 12:16 pm  

      Well, take a look at this - Newsnight did a feature on this the other night. Apparently lots of Polish immigrants have ended up in Crewe.

      Suddenly, Crewe - once a fairly self-contained town of 48,000 people - is experiencing unprecedented social change.

      In just over a year and a half, according to the local council, at least 3,000 incomers have arrived in the town. They already make up 6% of the population - and they’re all from one country - Poland

      There are signs that Crewe’s experience may be being repeated in other towns across the country.

    39. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 12:19 pm  

      Worth watching the Newsnight feature.

    40. Jay Singh — on 12th February, 2006 at 12:33 pm  

      The Newsnight feature is really good - the interviews with people are so informative. Many of the immigrants are graduates working in pizza factories for minimum wage but they still make more money than they do at home. They are bringing their families over and many (most?) of them intend to stay.

      I have a soft spot in my heart for them - immigrant stories always remind you of your own grandparents like that.

    41. Sunny — on 12th February, 2006 at 2:52 pm  

      El cid has a point. Before the UK opened its borders to eastern Europeans, the right wing press was constantly running big features on how we would be “swamped”. The fact that we haven’t been, and that most of the new arrivals have gone straight to work (rather than claiming benefits) has clearly gone unnoticed by the same press. That’s a surprise.

    42. jamal — on 12th February, 2006 at 6:43 pm  

      I am in shock.

      No racist comments..

      No freedom of speech arguements…

      Its surprising how things stay calm when Islam is not the focus of attention.

      I reckon if it was this same article with an Islamic figure on the cards, this thread would be red hot with uninformed comments.

      Nevertheless, i will send an email too!

    43. Vikrant — on 13th February, 2006 at 6:58 am  

      Lool Rohin the Crackhead! Actually half the people in my class are hooked on to crack (no me though). BTW that French company who put Ram on shoes was Menilli (sic?) or sumfin like that.

    44. mirax — on 13th February, 2006 at 9:44 am  

      Come off it Jamal. Stop playing the eternal victim and you might find yourself getting some of that ‘respect’ you clamour for. If this little brouhaha takes off, with Sikhs burning out the Partypoker offices, threatening all and any connected with deaththreats,blowing up airliners etc, then they will be getting the shit too. Def from me.

      I am certainly not in the least perturbed by the use of the Guru image by a gambling company just as I felt nothing more than the tiniest tinge of regret over the Mo cartoons (that only because of the underlying racism revealed by a couple of the cartoons). That is just tough for you religious types but not everyone has a value system which puts as the abstract honor of blokes who died centuries ago way above that of the living.

      If Sikhs want to run wild with this, that would be to their detriment.

    45. Monkey — on 13th February, 2006 at 12:57 pm  

      Mirax, what do you think of all those Hindu thugs that go around burning down libraries and giving death threats to Muslim painters and artists and wrecking film sets and generally being petty little fascists?

    46. mirax — on 13th February, 2006 at 9:12 pm  

      Ha ha. What do you think I think Mr Monkey? Criminal shits who should be locked up? Great defenders of the faith? Do you possess any reading comprehension at all? Or are you guys TRULY incapable of looking at anything without it being framed in communal terms?

    47. mirax — on 14th February, 2006 at 5:18 am  

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,170-2037230,00.html

      A great initiative to get rid of British blasphemy laws altogether.

    48. Jay Singh — on 14th February, 2006 at 12:11 pm  

      Well the picture has been taken off the website.

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