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    Boycotting Israeli occupation


    by Al-Hack on 8th February, 2006 at 1:05 am    

    Forget the cartoons, let’s talk real controversy.

    The Church of England’s general synod - including the Archbishop of Canterbury - voted last night to disinvest church funds from companies profiting from Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory.

    The main target of the plan will be the US earth-moving equipment company Caterpillar which has supplied vehicles used by Israel to demolish Palestinian homes.

    Cue: “It’s an Islamist conspiracyyyy!” If only the rest of the country would take a nod from the Church and force Israel to re-think occupation. Apparently Israelis themselves aren’t too enthusiastic about it either, so maybe a sane debate could be had.
    Update: Ekklesia article with more detail.



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    40 Comments below   |  

    1. Sunny — on 8th February, 2006 at 1:11 am  

      And things were so civil here for a little bit…. :(

    2. j0nz — on 8th February, 2006 at 1:19 am  

      lol Sunny

    3. Steve M — on 8th February, 2006 at 1:32 am  

      Thank goodness the Synod has finally acted. It’s been clear to the rest of us for some time now that the Israeli treatment of Palestinians (and of their Arab neighbours, particularly Syria) is almost certainly the greatest evil on our planet.

      Despite a complete lack of provocation and the fact that the fascist state of Israel has zero grounds for harbouring fears for its own security, its evil doings make those of China, the Sudan, N Korea, Uganda, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia (amongst many others) pale by comparison.

      What can we the outside world do to force this evil country to negotiate peace with her Palestinian brothers who crave it so intensely?

    4. Al-Hack — on 8th February, 2006 at 3:01 am  

      Why Steve, Palestinian lives not important enough for to worry about? I’d be interested in how much Church money supports N Korea. You reckon they’re selling nuke technology?

    5. Bikhair — on 8th February, 2006 at 3:22 am  

      Pickled Potstickers,

      “What can we the outside world do to force this evil country to negotiate peace with her Palestinian brothers who crave it so intensely?”

      …and on that note the Musims out brothers unto eachother. I do wonder if this Palestinian state will be a place for Muslims to make hijrah to and a place to practice their religion.

    6. Basil Shuttleworth Davis — on 8th February, 2006 at 5:57 am  

      A bit off topic, but I found this wonderful story today while reading the BBC website. It really is too bad that our News providers can’t report more happy stories like the one below.

      Dolphins prevent NZ shark attack
      By Phil Mercer
      BBC, Sydney

      A group of swimmers has told how a pod of dolphins protected them from a great white shark off New Zealand’s coast.
      The lifeguards were training at a beach near Whangarei on the North Island when they were menaced by a 3-metre shark, before the dolphins raced in to help.

      The swimmers were surrounded by the dolphins for 40 minutes before they were able to make it safely back to the beach.

      Marine biologists say such altruistic behaviour is not uncommon in dolphins.

      Lifeguard Rob Howes was in the water with two colleagues and his teenage daughter.

      It was an uncomfortable experience, as they were circled by a great white shark, which came within a couple of metres.
      He said around half a dozen dolphins suddenly appeared and herded the swimmers together. The mammals swam in tight circles to create a defensive barrier as the great white lurked under the surface.

      The swimmers said the dolphins were extremely agitated and repeatedly slapped the water with their tails, presumably to try to deter the predator as it cruised nearby.

      The drama happened in New Zealand three weeks ago, but only now are the lifeguards telling their story.

      It is a day they will never forget, especially for one of the swimmers, who was on her first day as a volunteer.

      They have no doubt that the dolphins acted deliberately to protect them.

      Researchers have said they are not surprised. A marine biologist insisted that dolphins, which are considere

    7. Basil Shuttleworth Davis — on 8th February, 2006 at 6:00 am  

      Dear me, My name is Basil Shuttleworth Davis and I forgot my password ha! I’m a silly old fool I realized after about an hour I didn’t need one for this site. Anyway do like your web blog, keep up the good work.

      I came across a very funny joke in the Spectator. I’ll share it with you.

      An Irishman, a Scotsman, a Welshman and an Englishman are captured by the Waffen SS, who, informing them they will be shot, allow them one last request. Irishman: ‘I should like to see 50 Irish dancers doing Riverdance.’ He is told this will be arranged. Scotsman: ‘I should like to hear 100 pipers playing “The Flowers of the Forest”.’ Welshman: ‘I should like to hear 1,000 miners singing “Cwm Rhondda”.’ Then it is the Englishman’s turn: ‘I hate to be a nuisance, but d’you think, I mean, would it be possible…for me to be shot first, please?”

    8. Vikrant — on 8th February, 2006 at 6:45 am  

      Advertbot?

    9. Vikrant — on 8th February, 2006 at 6:46 am  

      lol Sunny you need to bring in confirmation-word thingy back again, otherwise this place would be soon swarming with bots selling everything under the sun.

    10. Vikrant — on 8th February, 2006 at 6:55 am  

      Forget the cartoons, let’s talk real controversy.

      Well the real controversy should start when Hamas controlled PA “rercognises” Irsrael’s right to exist. Though most Israelis do believe that they shouldnt occupy Palestianian territories, I daresay most Palestinians fed on the generations of anti-Israeli propoganda and dreams of a return to a lost land they’d never known would support Hamas in its stand.

    11. Vikrant — on 8th February, 2006 at 6:57 am  

      should read “de-recognises”

    12. Chris — on 8th February, 2006 at 7:46 am  

      Steve M - well if Israeli treatment of the Palestinians is the “greatest evil on our planet” - are you a student by any chance? - I doubt whether the Synod “finally acting” will frighten them.
      They’re selling shares in one US company….er, that’s it.
      And pretty pathetic posturing it is too.

    13. Kulvinder — on 8th February, 2006 at 8:46 am  

      Religions have investment portfolios now?????!!? i always wondered where the money i gave to the gurdwara went…that new beemer the giani has was a tad suspicious.

    14. Steve M — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:20 am  

      Chris, I was being ironic. Sad that people should actually take that sentence seriously.

      Al Hack, the lives of Palestinian civilians are certainly important enough to worry about, as are the lives of civilians everywhere.

    15. raz — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:33 am  

      Steve M

      ” China, the Sudan, N Korea, Uganda, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia”

      Why would a Western democracy such as Israel want to judge itself in comparison to those nations? Do you really have such a low opinion of Israel and the Israeli people? Having a better human rights record than those countries is hardly anything to be proud of.

      Actually, the lives of both Israelis and Palestinians are given inflated worth by the world media. The amount of people killed on both sides is minor on a global scale. Israeli treatment of Palestinians is FAR less harsh than many other countries, yet it gets lambasted constantly. Every suicide bombing in Israel is frontline news, even if it only kills a couple of people. The worst thing is, the global community has invested 100 times more effort in solving this conflict than many of the others around the world, and yet still both sides are more interested in bashing each other and claiming the moral high ground than actually coming to a peaceful settlement. Shameful.

    16. Chris — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:33 am  

      Sorry - I jumped too quickly - before first coffee of the day.

      Your post is spot on….!

    17. Jay Singh — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:44 am  

      I support the Palestinians in their right to a state and all that, it is obvious that Israel needs to pull its finger out on a number of issues, but I instinctively baulk at some of the rhetoric that is applied to Israel not only from some Muslims but from many people on the Left too - at times it is so out of scale that it is like the ranting of a maniac.

      There is so much hysteria involved.

    18. sonia — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:46 am  

      hmm i like Basil’s post about the dolphins. if he’s a bot he’s a sensitive one..

      Anyway what’s so controversial about ethical consumption?

      IN principle its what we should be encouraging worldwide as you can’t really have any sort of sustainability without - but obviously in real life its difficult to carry out - so yeah its one company, so what? I’m trying very hard not to use Google anymore, and it sure ain’t easy thanks to their bl**dy omnipresence..

    19. Steve M — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:47 am  

      OK Raz, how about:
      UK, USA, France, Russia?

    20. sonia — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:55 am  

      i do find that funny - “Western democracy such as Israel”..

      where’s the “Western” bit come in?

      Has everyone been listening to so much of Bush’s mantra “Western” Democracy that they’ve started seeing it everywhere? To start off with, the USA which is the biggest preacher of this - to the point its practically becoming a religion- ( and that will be good - let’s classify it as such in the next Census - then more people will feel comfortable ‘bashing’ it ) can’t even practise what it preaches. Go and take a good look at their electoral system. ( and explain it to the ordinary people while you’re at it - they could use the help!)

    21. Steve M — on 8th February, 2006 at 10:56 am  

      The former archbishop of Canterbury, George Carey, told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday he was “ashamed to be an Anglican” following Monday’s vote

      Lord Carey ‘ashamed to be an Anglican’

    22. raz — on 8th February, 2006 at 11:11 am  

      I really don’t understand why people in this country - most of whom are neither Israeli nor Palestinan - get so worked up over this issue. These two sets of people have been given numerous chances by the global community - which ignores many other far more bloody conflicts - and yet they still go on hating and fighting. Really they need to stop complaining and acting like spoilt children and take a good hard look at themselves.

    23. sonia — on 8th February, 2006 at 11:42 am  

      anyway vikrant for arguments sake - why should you expect someone to recognize someone when they don’t recognize them back? (And who have the bigger guns i might add.. )

      I should think any exhortations to peace in that region should be directed at the lot of them.

      After all -again for arguments sake- why don’t you provide your home as a home for the State of Israel to exist? Would you be willing to do that? If the State of Israel wanted to come here? Why not if not? surely as you say the ’state’ has a right to exist - well why not in the British Isles then? Why should you expect other people -whose lives you clearly know nothing about -to give up rights you no doubt hold so dearly yourself?

      i’d just like to point out the blatant hypocrisy everywhere.

      [My own thinking is that ALL people should try and co-exist everywhere cos -shove it - there ain’t anywhere else to go otherwise! This ain’t the internet – where you can f**ck off and build your own site. Look what happened with Pakistan. Nation-states are the dumbest thing around. Not many people seem to get that. Ah well!]

      But given that everyone else seems to be quite happy with them - Do you imagine you would be happy if a bunch of people - say from Rome- showed up - with guns - and said, right Vik, get out of your semi, cos I’m here now, and you have no rights in this new ‘State’ of ours – that we’re ‘Reclaiming’ - and in fact if you left the country i’d be much happier, cos then i get my friends to come too - why we’ve been homeless for years ( and not treated very nicely by the Racist people there, who wanted to turn us out, so guess what – we needed to find another place – and you’re IT. ) J and Why Not? Why not indeed? Surely they have a right to a State of their own if everyone else does, don’t they? [Aha..and therein lies the REAL problem..]

      Hmm…? Or when a bunch of HT idiots turned around and said they wanted to have their ‘Muslim State’ ( whatever the f**ck they might have meant by that) here - oh yes..say they’d had a Big Country [somewhere else- far away who’re not PERSONALLY involved in the nastiness] rooting for them - and telling you lot - Tough - they have the right to exist, you lot don’t. You lot shut up.

      Come on - let’s see what your reaction would be then? Yes eventually you’d have to co-exist but no doubt when the rest of us kind interfering types said “now Vik, why are you denying their right to exist? You should be making the effort shouldn’t you? You can’t expect them to also negotiate – can you? Ha ha what a silly muggins you are, who gave you that idea?
      -
      end of skit – don’t take it too personally, okay?

      the REAL problem : At the end of the day if people want to not be inclusive then there is bound to be trouble - and that goes ALL ways. the thinking that one ‘group’ is entitled to some particular territory and not another is Fundamentally Flawed - yet that is the premise of nation-states the way they are. why is it flawed? cos then you have exactly the situation you currently do with israel/palestine: one place and groups competing for ‘ownership’ . Of course every human has the right to exist on this bl**dy planet - but if we go around saying oh only Klingons can live in the country of ‘Klingon’ - why then you’ll have to find lots of countries on Earth - and frankly there doesn’t seem to be enough land mass if everyone decides to be their own ‘State’. Ah - instead it might make better sense to have individuals who live in multicultural groups that are actually democratic, rather than supremacist. and what do i mean by democratic - i mean the people who happen to be there, not the people who fit into some definition of the Group in power. And people don’t need to have their ‘own State’ if the other places they could have lived were actually democratic and included them and gave them rights based on the fact that they were human. ( and not denied them rights because oh well you’re not in our group so you can’t be in our State, you go find your own somewhere else..) [ which sure enough some of them they do go off and do - and look at the fuss then..have to fight and kill the bodies who happened to be there]

      States in search of a Nation -

      Any of this making any sense? Probably not. most of us are too socially conditioned/take our ‘countries’ too personally to see the bigger problem that this israel/palestine thing is symptomatic of. Just like religion eh? Ha ha.

      Oh well.

    24. chavez — on 8th February, 2006 at 11:49 am  

      not more Jooo propaganda…..it’s getting really boooring

    25. sonia — on 8th February, 2006 at 11:50 am  

      ha ha Kulvinder - where have you been- wake up and smell the coffee. And actually - its not a ‘religion’ that has investment portfolios - its a religious institution. ( yes there is a big difference - a pretty critical one) And the Catholic Church - another very powerful religious institution - try checking out their porfolio - condom factories and all sorts. Heh heh

    26. sonia — on 8th February, 2006 at 11:54 am  

      oops - sorry! my post up there - the states in search of a nation thing i put up there was a reference to Arjun Appadurai, who has some good analysis on the sort of point i ( rather longish..) was trying to make. and vik - sorry i read it over and thought i might have sounded too personal - please don’t construe it that way - it was simply to illustrate the difficulty of seeing things from other people’s perspective.

    27. Bikhair — on 8th February, 2006 at 4:36 pm  

      Raz,

      “The worst thing is, the global community has invested 100 times more effort in solving this conflict than many of the others around the world, and yet still both sides are more interested in bashing each other and claiming the moral high ground than actually coming to a peaceful settlement. Shameful.”

      Indeed it is. This is the same with the Muslim community. Why do the Palestinians get all the attention when there are famines across the Muslim world, we just had a devestating Earthquake in Pakistan, the Tsunami and the treatment of Chinese Muslims at the hands of China is, I hear, deplorable.

      Many people have vested interest in this conflict which isnt peace as you have so rightly pointed out. Thanks.

    28. sonia — on 8th February, 2006 at 5:09 pm  

      yeah exactly the point is that no-one should be clicquey when it comes to human rights, that much is OBVIOUS!! or should be, rather. It shouldn’t be about oh a muslim is suffering - who gives a damn what someone’s religion is or isn’t -that’s absolutely pathetic, one may as well not bother ‘helping’ if its because of some silly group solidarity idea.

    29. El Cid — on 8th February, 2006 at 9:09 pm  

      Let’s see if we can try and steer this battleship into more benign waters.
      The BBC reports that the new Hamas government has offered to talk to Israel, offering a “long-term truce” if Israel reverts to its 1967 borders.
      All this is promising — as I have long maintained, the silver lining of a Hamas government is that can actually deliver peace if only one can be agreed.
      However, a “long-term truce” is hardly much of a carrot when you don’t recognise Israel’s right to exist. So somehow a more permanent accomodation needs to be drawn out of the Hamas leadership. Maybe there is an unspoken willingness in the Hamas leadership to offer a permanent peace, maybe they are waiting to see what Israel brings to the table, whether it too is able to swallow the bitterest pill and accept sharing Jerusalem. The rhetoric suggests not — not yet anyway.
      It seems to me that the Arab League could be a useful sponsor of any peace plan along with the Permanent Members of the UN Security Council.
      Unfortunately, the regional and global conditions are far from ripe — not while there are separate, self-interested and malign geopolitical dynamics out there, namely Western tensions with Syria and Iran (yes, I know they aren’t Arabs) and an unresolved conflict in Iraq. And of course, the Great Cartoon Caper of 2006 has served to intensify those dynamics.
      Um, that’s it. Not as practical as I had hoped.
      But then conflict resolution is a lot lot harder than conflict.

    30. j0nz — on 9th February, 2006 at 8:49 am  

      Al-Hack, I wonder if you’ll be taking advantage of the Google ad’s on the the right hand side?

      Club Med Israel
      Book into one of our all-inclusive Villages & discover more for less.
      www.clubmed.co.uk

      Jewish Prophecy
      What the Torah says about current events. How a Jew should prepare!
      livejournal.com

      I think a good holiday in Israel would do you the world of good.

    31. Vikrant — on 9th February, 2006 at 8:59 am  

      Well Sonia, yes Palestinians have a right to exist as an independent nation. But lets look at the facts. UN partitioned Palestinian Mandatory terrirtories west of Jordan river into Jewish majority areas and Arab majority areas. While Jerusalem was s’posed to be an international city.

      But at time of partition it was Arabs who invaded Israel. It simply didnt occur to them that they wouldnt be able to carry out their boasts of incarcinating Mediterranean sea with blood… Jewish blood. Even when they had a clear numerical and military superirority over the Joos they couldnt beat them. Israel took more land than it was alloted from Arabs fair and square. Remember for every Deir Yassin there was a Kfar Etzion.

      As for refugees, no Arab state with exception of Jordan welcomed them with open arms. Palestinians were left to fester in the squalor of refugee camps by their very own Arab brothers who could well have taken them in (like India and Pakistan did to Hindus and Muslims respectively). OTOH nobody talks about how Arab Jews were kicked out uncereminously from Morroco to KSA.

    32. Vikrant — on 9th February, 2006 at 9:01 am  

      I think a good holiday in Israel would do you the world of good.

      lol yea, i was once in the Zionism = Racism crowd. But a visit to Indian Jewish-friends in Ashdod (which is bang in the middle of Negev desert ) surely helped me.

    33. mirax — on 9th February, 2006 at 9:50 am  

      lol yea, i was once in the Zionism = Racism crowd.

      Like when was this Vik? Given that you are only 16 …

      Btw, it is good to know that all it took to beat the anti-zionism out of you was just one visit to friends. Maybe the same enlightenment can occur in another area of your life.

    34. Siddharth — on 9th February, 2006 at 9:54 am  

      When he was 10 and was hanging out with the SWP posse.

    35. Vikrant — on 9th February, 2006 at 9:55 am  

      Does age really matter in this discourse?

    36. Vikrant — on 9th February, 2006 at 9:56 am  

      oooh… SWP now i’m really offended.

    37. Vikrant — on 9th February, 2006 at 10:01 am  

      BTW Sid… i started my rightward march reading Current Bun! ;)

    38. Siddharth — on 9th February, 2006 at 10:12 am  

      yeah, tits on page three tend to do that to people.

    39. j0nz — on 9th February, 2006 at 7:19 pm  

      yeah, tits on page three tend to do that to people.

      Well it does to repressed religious types, Siddarth ;)

    40. Siddharth — on 9th February, 2006 at 7:24 pm  

      really? Prior to the web, I suppose it was for young circle-jerkers who couldn’t get the real thing. ;-)

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