PCC investigating ‘Jewish hit list’ story


by Sunny
28th January, 2009 at 8:39 pm    

The Media Guardian today reports that the (toothless) Press Complaints Commission is now investigating the Sun’s worthless front page story that Muslims were drawing up a ‘hit-list’ of prominent Jews. Both Tim Ireland at Bloggerheads and the people at Ummah.com say the evidence points to the “anti-terror expert” Glen Jenvey himself pretending to be a nutjob.

Meanwhile, we’ve also had an upsurge of nutjobs posting anti-semitic or anti-Muslim comments – which could very well come from people trying to rubbish this blog by filling it with filth. As I’ve said before, any form of bigotry will be deleted, no explanations. We’re also recording your IP addresses. Remember that.
In entirely unrelated news, public trust in the UK press has fallen to 19%.


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  1. The Sun and the Jew hit list and Glen Jenvey « Spieler

    [...] the Jews: The Media Guardian today reports that the (toothless) Press Complaints Commission is now investigating the Sun’s [...]




  1. marvin — on 28th January, 2009 at 10:56 pm  

    Looks like Ummah.com have wised up to threads about violence, realised ‘the feds’ are watching.

    I’ve seem some disgusting posts at Ummah.com in the past.

    There was a post up there, a ‘hit-list’, which was visible on Ummah.com for around two days if I remember correctly before it was deleted.

    With regards to Jenvey… I really don’t know why people both to make things up when there’s plenty of crazy stuff in real life to point out….

  2. Cyburn — on 28th January, 2009 at 11:37 pm  

    19% – probably if balanced out, the trust for broadsheets is somewhere like 30-40%, while the trust for tabloids is 1-2%

  3. douglas clark — on 29th January, 2009 at 12:48 am  

    marvin,

    What are you saying, exactly? Either they have been attacked by idiots or they haven’t. Which, do you think it is?

  4. dave bones — on 29th January, 2009 at 2:30 am  

    Fascinating.

  5. dave bones — on 29th January, 2009 at 2:40 am  

    I spoke to some people from the beeb who said he was a strange fellow. I was intending to go down and film what he had to say a long while back but didn’t. I know he sells himself in the States as “The man who got Hamza”. The kids said there was nothing undercover, they sent tapes to whoever ordered them.

    I don’t know, I never met him. His spelling is very bad I would guess he is a bit dyslexic. Not for me to judge, I follow with interest.

  6. Refresh — on 29th January, 2009 at 3:13 am  

    ‘Meanwhile, we’ve also had an upsurge of nutjobs posting anti-semitic or anti-Muslim comments – which could very well come from people trying to rubbish this blog by filling it with filth.’

    Sunny, I made a very serious suggestion on a couple of the threads. It may also prove to be a hit.

    Why don’t you create a ‘Sin Bin’ where every nasty comment is transferred. This would allow us to administer the appropriate therapy, and it also affords the offender the opportunity to repent.

    A repenting sinner is worth a lot more to us, than one deleted but left to spread their distortions elsewhere.

    Consider it a service to mankind.

  7. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 3:36 am  

    Refresh, I don’t have time for service to (wo)mankind.

  8. douglas clark — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:19 am  

    Sunny,

    Meanwhile, we’ve also had an upsurge of nutjobs posting anti-semitic or anti-Muslim comments – which could very well come from people trying to rubbish this blog by filling it with filth. As I’ve said before, any form of bigotry will be deleted, no explanations.

    I’d welcome that. As I’d expect your few declared Jewish commentators, like Chairwoman, Katy Newton and Bananabrain, might too.

    What I have always really admired about this place – why I keep coming back really – is it’s ability to blend diverse opinion.

    I do not really know Sid or Sonia or Bananabrain or you, come to that. I have only read what you all have to say. But I have come to trust all of you for your honesty, to the – probably over the top – extent that I see you as family.

    I might not agree with you all the time, but I do respect you all.

    If that were lost, then all is lost.

  9. platinum786 — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:23 am  

    Keeping a forum/blog clear of total nutters is an excellent idea, they mud sling everywhere and distract regular readers and new readers from the real content of the topic.

    I hope someone will be representing Ummah.com against this guy and I hope they sue his ass. Websites and comments left on them aren’t always pleasant, but to try and make it sound like some sort of terrorist operation run on an open forum, is a joke.

  10. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 3:36 pm  

    As I’d expect your few declared Jewish commentators, like Chairwoman, Katy Newton and Bananabrain, might too.

    There’s no need to be obsessed about their Jewish background douggie. It’s a side issue. To me they are people, part of the community etc etc. Their background is irrelevant. I get hate mail from Jewish readers who are very anti-zionist and think I’m being far too nice to Israel, etc etc… so religion has got nothing to do with it. Let’s stop fetishising it.

  11. Jai — on 29th January, 2009 at 3:40 pm  

    Sunny,

    Minor point:

    The phrase you’ve quoted in #157 in the now-closed thread was from a comment by me, not BB.

    Cheers.

  12. Katy Newton — on 29th January, 2009 at 3:47 pm  

    I don’t like baseless allegations either. Specifically, I don’t like being told:

    1. that I am trying to blackmail you into changing what you write

    or

    2. that all I contribute is hysterical allegations of antisemitism.

    Neither of those things are true and you know it.

    I did not spend three weeks trying to defend Israel, either. I spent three weeks trying to get people to talk about how to obtain a ceasefire. In return I got trolled constantly. I’m glad Ravi can rise above it but it upset me a lot. And your ranting about “three weeks of allegations of antisemitism is all you’ve done” was the final straw on top of that, so I said I wouldn’t comment again.

    I’m very touched that my friends on here (not, apparently, including you) were upset by that, because I would have been just as upset if they had reached a point where they didn’t want to comment anymore.

    I’m sorry that you can’t find any room at all for the possibility that I was genuinely upset and wanted some space.

    Anyway, I came to have a look because the Chairwoman wanted me to see how much more human and normal everyone had become, and I walked straight into your comment about Jewish commenters trying to change the way you write. Which was nice.

  13. douglas clark — on 29th January, 2009 at 3:51 pm  

    Sunny @ 11,

    I had to think about that, sadly for me.

    You are obviously right.

  14. Ravi Naik — on 29th January, 2009 at 4:30 pm  

    I spent three weeks trying to get people to talk about how to obtain a ceasefire. In return I got trolled constantly. I’m glad Ravi can rise above it but it upset me a lot.

    I can rise above it because I do not know these people. But I certainly would be hurt if someone I know and cared about said something I consider hurtful.

  15. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 4:38 pm  

    Anyway, I came to have a look because the Chairwoman wanted me to see how much more human and normal everyone had become, and I walked straight into your comment about Jewish commenters trying to change the way you write. Which was nice.

    This is what I mean by you reaching a point where you think everything I write is about flinging mud at you. Hence my point earlier.

    My point to Doug was that we need to stop fetishising people’s backgrounds. I don’t say anything about you because you’re Jewish or not… to me that’s irrelevant to the arguments being had. So there’s no value in saying ‘we need to look after our Jewish readers’ because I’d find it as patronising as someone saying ‘we need to keep our Muslim readers happy’. That’s nothing to do with you trying to influence my articles – I’ve already said that’s not going to happen. I’m telling Douglas its silly to assume our Jewish readers only have one viewpoint on an issue.

  16. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 4:40 pm  

    I’m very touched that my friends on here (not, apparently, including you) were upset by that, because I would have been just as upset if they had reached a point where they didn’t want to comment anymore.

    And I’m sure others are upset, but as I said I think you’ve reached a point where you think everything I say is maliciously inclined, so I’m beyond the point of trying to explain myself.

  17. Katy Newton — on 29th January, 2009 at 4:53 pm  

    I think you’ve reached a point where you think everything I say is maliciously inclined

    No, not really. I just don’t think you appreciate what it’s like from my end, where every comment I make is perceived as emotional blackmail or hysterical mudslinging. I tried very hard not to get bogged down in the whole demonisation/glorification dynamic that this site attracts and it did me no good at all. I do take it personally. It does upset me that people will turn up and dog me for weeks purely because they’ve gleaned that I’m Jewish. And you have to take into account that this happens against a background of general fear in my community, which for the most part is not politically active and is mainly minding its own business.

    And then there’s this thing that I’ve made “baseless allegations” against you, as if I go looking for stuff to hold against you. I don’t. I found it difficult to work out what you were thinking because your comments taken together went in different directions. I wasn’t accusing you of thinking Hamas was great, I just thought you were saying that you supported their right to Palestinian self-defence. I was just trying to work out what you were saying, but you seem to get terribly offended with people if they don’t grasp everything you think from one comment. I don’t like arguing with you any more than you like arguing with me, because neither of us seem to be good at being nice about it.

  18. Katy Newton — on 29th January, 2009 at 4:55 pm  

    So there’s no value in saying ‘we need to look after our Jewish readers’ because I’d find it as patronising as someone saying ‘we need to keep our Muslim readers happy’

    Agreed. But there is something to be said for promoting a space in which all commenters feel that they are looked after, and I think everyone from Douglas to Anas to Leon to Refresh thinks that the Jewish commenters have taken more than their fair share of stick recently. It’s a balancing act but the main thing is to make sure that everyone feels as if they’re in a debate rather than up against the wall.

  19. bananabrain — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:14 pm  

    As far as I can see above, I responded quite nicely to BB but he chose to take offence at… what I’m not sure.

    your lack of civility to myself, katy and chairwoman and your apparent unwillingness to recognise that you’re being both dismissive and bloody rude. you will notice that the times i have got seriously annoyed with other commenters here are the times when i feel intemperate language is being used, like just recently with douglas, as leon pointed out.

    The guy has seen much worse at the interfaith thingys and now suddenly he’s getting sensitive.

    no interfaith encounter group would permit an attitude like yours – politeness is a sine qua non, as is a willingness to try and recognise when offence has been given through ignorance, misspeaking or lack of clarity and if possible rectify the matter, which i believe “everyone from Douglas to Anas to Leon to Refresh” has had the courtesy to recognise.

    if Anas says something he’s automatically a terrorist supporter because he’s Muslim.

    *i* have said nothing of the sort. as a matter of fact, the last thing anas said was extremely disarming, fair and even-handed.

    Katy/chairwoman are trying to defend Israel’s actions and frankly right now there isn’t a lot to defend. So inevitably they feel run down.

    what utter bilge. this is the problem you lefties have in your little world of being “progressive” – ultimately, it’s your way or the highway. no wonder you are prepared to admire such blinkered people as tony benn and ken livingstone. you think you are taking a balanced view? you are not. you can try and kid yourself if you like, but it should be a bit of a fecking giveaway when every single serious jewish commenter on your blog starts disappearing. you think background doesn’t make any difference? that view’s straight out of the eighteenth century and, guess what? there was a price to be paid for the equality of “citizenship” and it was called “assimilation”; when times got tough neither was any protection at all.

    I’m sorry the atmosphere isn’t much better but then that’s the times we live in.

    dialogue is about trying to change the atmosphere and, ultimately, the times. you appear to be more concerned with establishing the clarity of your own position. i suppose it’s my own fault, really; you are a journalist first and foremost and this isn’t a dialogue group – and you have your career to consider. i know from my own experience that journalists consider controversy to be more exciting reading than balanced analysis.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  20. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:14 pm  

    And then there’s this thing that I’ve made “baseless allegations” against you, as if I go looking for stuff to hold against you. I don’t.

    Ok, we now sound like an angry husband and wife trying to resolve their issues online.

    My annoyance was over chairwoman accusing me of sounding anti-semitic and then you insinuate I was trying to bat for Hamas etc.

    After a while, I get sick of trying to repeat myself. If you have a series of questions for me, put them in point form, as I did when responding to BB.

    I do take it personally

    And you shouldn’t.

    and I think everyone from Douglas to Anas to Leon to Refresh thinks that the Jewish commenters have taken more than their fair share of stick recently

    Frankly, it’s nothing to do with your Jewish background and everything to do with you defending Israel (at times, not all the time obviously). Marvin, frankly, gets much more abuse from me than you do, and he always comes back for more. I don’t even know what background he is and its irrelevant.
    Its not easy defending Israel right now as it wouldn’t be for anyone to defend Islamist orgs. Do you think fug and Ashik get an easy time on here?

  21. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:19 pm  

    this is the problem you lefties have in your little world of being “progressive” – ultimately, it’s your way or the highway. no wonder you are prepared to admire such blinkered people as tony benn and ken livingstone. you think you are taking a balanced view?

    What’s the balanced position here BB? Tell me.

    your lack of civility to myself, katy and chairwoman and your apparent unwillingness to recognise that you’re being both dismissive and bloody rude.

    I see… and I’m the only one doing that am I? All one way is it?

  22. bananabrain — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:28 pm  

    What’s the balanced position here BB? Tell me.

    something more informed by a genuine understanding of what international law says and what it is for, not a shibboleth for the left to call for people it dislikes to stand trial for this, that and the other. something other than demos and boycotts. something other than hysterical demands for condemnation of this, that and the other. something that recognises that israel is not obliged to stand by whilst lunatics fire 8,000 rockets at it. something that does not caricature israel as *entirely* (word carefully chosen) unconcerned with ethics or civilian deaths – as demonstrated by this piece by israel’s military advocate general: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1059756.html.

    and, finally something that recognises that there’s something fairly major going on in the geopolitical arena which obama recognises, even if you don’t – iran’s quest for regional dominance. not what you’re saying, which is effectively “israel doesn’t have a leg to stand on”.

    I see… and I’m the only one doing that am I? All one way is it?

    just one place, sunny, one place where i have been as rude as you have been.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  23. Refresh — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:37 pm  

    Phew, glad to see there is a coming together of minds. Which I expected, by the way.

    And whilst I am here, can I also add that I am mightily cheesed off that through trolls etc., every thread has been derailed. Having said that ‘we’ have derailed it not the trolls. They are long gone.

    I want a proper debate, and it will be with Bandanabrain. Because I think he is a Rambo in the making. : )

  24. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:41 pm  

    something more informed by a genuine understanding of what international law says and what it is for, not a shibboleth for the left to call for people it dislikes to stand trial for this, that and the other

    I completely agree… and how does that contradict what I say?

    something other than demos and boycotts. something other than hysterical demands for condemnation of this, that and the other.

    demos and boycotts are part of legitimate political protest.

    as for hysterical condemnations, I’m more on the receiving end of that than dishing it out. I’m the one who went on the march with a sign against Hamas and the IDF remember?

    You haven’t explained what the balanced position is regarding the situation in Gaza though.

    something that recognises that israel is not obliged to stand by whilst lunatics fire 8,000 rockets at it.

    I’ve not said it is. But flip it around and tell me what Palestinians are allowed to do while they’re being blockaded? This is why I find the rocket argument lame – it looks at everything in a short frame of time.

    The bigger issue is, why hasn’t there been more moves towards peace in the past?

    even if you don’t – iran’s quest for regional dominance

    I’ve never been pro-Iran. In fact my next blog article was going to be on exactly that issue.

    just one place, sunny, one place where i have been as rude as you have been.

    Here was your attempt earlier at twisting around what I said and then saying you felt sick:

    you cannot say, on one hand, that these things are illegitimate, as you do, but at the same time excuse the same sort of action elsewhere as legitimate. i thought you were against this sort of double standard. clearly i am wrong.

    i can’t actually stomach this any more. i feel sick.

    well done, sunny, you’ve just removed any reason i might ever have to expect fairness from so-called “progressives”.

    I’ve had to explain myself like 20 times, and every time, there’s a comeback saying I’m just legitimising Hamas, without a proper look at what I’m saying.

    You can’t accuse me of obfuscating when you’re doing the same.

  25. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:49 pm  

    I agree with Sunny–cut out the “Jewish commentators” shit, you know who you are. PP is not my site, but honestly, this is doing a huge disservice and painting an inaccurate picture. I’ve taken issue with Katy and Chairwoman’s comments time and time again (or sometimes don’t bother at all), and I’ve never thought of myself as engaging with a “Jewish commentator,” and I’ve never thought that they bring a “Jewish perspective” to PP, whatever the hell that means. I’ve disagreed with them because they consistently, and without fail, apologize for Israel and their perspective is almost always pro-Israel which is NOT THE SAME THING AS ANTI-SEMITISM OR HATING ON THEM BECAUSE THEIR ARE OF JEWISH BACKGROUND.

    And I can name about five non-Jewish people who are just as fervent in their unconditional support for Israel.

    BTW, how does Katy manage to turn every single I/P into something about her, use trolls as they excuse for why she doesn’t want to engage with everyone else, then threaten to leave, and then everyone and they mama has to beg her to stay, and THEN she comes back in like no time? Beats me.

    Every single I/P post is written specifically for you, directed personally at you. We are all after you, Katy. Run. Run for your life.

  26. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:54 pm  

    “something more informed by a genuine understanding of what international law says and what it is for”

    Surely you’ve come across the fact that Israel has violated IL, then….

  27. douglas clark — on 29th January, 2009 at 5:59 pm  

    bananabrain @ 20,

    I am a bit pissed off about being accused of being intemperate, when I was being nothing of the kind.

    Here is Leons post, in total, with added me’s and Leons’ for clarity:

    Me: “The Katy Newton cloaking device. Lose an arguement and run, run, run away.

    Pathetic.”

    Leon: “That’s uncalled for.”

    Me: “We need to show her that, apart from a few weirdos, that is not true.”

    Leon: “Indeed.”

    Me: “I respect and admire Katy and Chairwoman.”

    Leon: “And you’ve proved this by saying not wanting to read abuse about themselves is pathetic?

    I’m tired of your bloody mood swings; one minute you’re being constructive and friendly, the next petulant and obnoxious.

    Cut it out. Whatever it is that’s fueling it stop it or stop posting here while under it’s influence.”

    So I get a yellow card on the basis of a single post pointing out that I think Katy was being a bit theatrical? You’ll notice that neither of the other two posts that the ref points to are in any way less than supportive? Nor have been the vast majority of my other posts. You did notice that, didn’t you?

    Give some people a little power and it goes completely to their heads.

    So, please stop misquoting or abusing me. It is enough having Leon in his best Traffic Warden Uniform strutting his ego when far more egregious things go unchecked.

    On this very thread Sunny has told me I should not see Jewishness as an issue. And, with some reflection, I agree.

  28. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:03 pm  

    “something that recognises that israel is not obliged to stand by whilst lunatics fire 8,000 rockets at it.”

    So, like, I am sure you know this as well, bananabrain, but there aren’t 8,000 rockets being launched from Gaza, and yet Gaza is occupied, Gazans are killed, etc. What explains that? Pre-emptive self-defense? You might want to check out the Israeli org B’Tselem, which has almost diligently documented atrocities, violations, and so on at http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp.

  29. Katy Newton — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:04 pm  

    I come back to this site because I’ve made friends here. In fairness you haven’t seen a lot of the antisemitic trolling that I got because it’s mostly been deleted, but presumably you’ll agree that if Anas and Refresh and Leon and Douglas all agree that it was unacceptable then perhaps it’s not just me exaggerating.

    Incidentally, I have seen you take enormous offence when people disagree with you. You do get just as wound up as I do and you do often end up swearing at people. I don’t particularly take offence when you do it, but I would have thought that you would understand how easy it is to get upset about what people say on a website.

    Finally: I say that I’m not commenting anymore because that’s how I feel when I say it. I’m like you – I have a quick temper. But I don’t find it easy to stay angry. I consider lots of regular commenters here friends and I would no more just disappear without explaining why than I would turn my back and walk out of a room. I assume that they get upset that I’m upset because they like me. And if they stormed off and said they weren’t coming back, I’d try to find out what was wrong too. It’s friendship. There’s nothing weird or sinister about it. I would much rather stay here but I felt that the tone of the debate had become unnecessarily abrasive and aggressive and I didn’t want to be part of it. If someone felt that way about my site I’d want them to say it, not just disappear. Perhaps you feel differently.

  30. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:07 pm  

    douglas:

    “So, please stop misquoting or abusing me.”

    You can stop first, then. You’ve been posting all kinds of schizophrenic love/hate comments at practically everyone, and it truly is uncalled for. And while your solidarity with “Jewish commentators” is touching, you’re not only misrepresenting what “real” commentators have been saying (ie the non-trolls), but you’re just fueling a thread that has someone been turned into Katy, Katy, Katy and now you, you, you.

  31. Katy Newton — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:08 pm  

    Every single I/P post is written specifically for you, directed personally at you. We are all after you, Katy. Run. Run for your life.

    Oh, I didn’t see that. That’s funny. I’ll learn from your example of courteous, inclusive debate.

  32. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:10 pm  

    “So, like, I am sure you know this as well, bananabrain, but there aren’t 8,000 rockets being launched from GAZA, and yet GAZA is occupied, GAZANS are killed, etc. What explains that? Pre-emptive self-defense? You might want to check out the Israeli org B’Tselem, which has almost diligently documented atrocities, violations, and so on at http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp.”

    Oh crap, massive typo. I meant the West Bank, not Gaza. There haven’t been 8,000 rockets launched from the West Bank and so on. My bad.

  33. Katy Newton — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:12 pm  

    Do you think fug and Ashik get an easy time on here?

    When do I ever come out with the sort of racist claptrap that either of them put out here?

  34. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:15 pm  

    “I’ll learn from your example of courteous, inclusive debate.”

    Katy, I am glad to be of service.

    Anyhoo, what the hell is everyone’s opinion on this Jewish hit list debacle? What does this case tell us about the media? That their fact-checking sucks, or is non-existent? That we should not trust the media? What have been other similar cases in British media where they have taken a so-called “story” and it has then revealed to be a farce? And do you think this phenomenon manifests itself across the pond? Because I do. Like take Judith Miller’s “reporting” for the NYT that there were WMD in Iraq.

    And does Sunny’s threat that they are recording all of the IP addresses and warning us that we should “remember that” an instance of Big Brother?

  35. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:16 pm  

    There’s nothing weird or sinister about it. I would much rather stay here but I felt that the tone of the debate had become unnecessarily abrasive and aggressive and I didn’t want to be part of it.

    I can’t see how, if over 100 people are dying a day through indiscriminate bombing, that it’s possible to stay unemotional.

    BB says we should be looking at this through international law – which is fine if it wasn’t for the fact Israel also keep ignoring it.

    This whole Jewish commentators bullshit is annoying because in the past I’ve told Muslim readers to piss off who think I have an agenda against Muslims. Remember the barbs at me by Islamophobia Watch and on MPAC?

    Incidentally, I have seen you take enormous offence when people disagree with you.

    I only take offence when people play the man not the ball. If there are holes in my argument – please point them out. To simply accuse me of sounding anti-semitic isn’t debate, its frankly trolling.

  36. douglas clark — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:17 pm  

    Desi,

    Perhaps you are right. I’ll away and get your diagnosis confirmed in the morning. Schizophrenia, you say? Wonderful what you can do over the internet these days isn’t it?

  37. persephone — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:19 pm  

    Katy Newton @ 13: “Specifically, I don’t like being told: 1. that I am trying to blackmail you into changing what you write”

    Katy,

    Do you realise that sometimes it comes across that way? I say that because a few weeks ago (on a non I/P post) you took me up on something I asked the chairwoman. From your comments I felt you expected me to know that she was your mother, of a mature age etc. From that I took it that I needed to take these factors into account when commenting – otherwise why provide them for my attention?

    Anyhow that’s how I perceived it. I was a bit surprised you raised these things because in the blogosphere you cannot know the relpn’s b/n people or their age, personal background etc and not being on this site that long I had not picked up on it – but should I need to anyway?

    Also, on that same post you stated that I should develop a thicker skin …..

    persephone

  38. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:20 pm  

    Seriously, Douglas, this is my last comment to you. You should really read what I’ve written:

    “You’ve been posting all kinds of schizophrenic love/hate comments”

    Not that you’re schizophrenic, but your comments have been. I don’t fucking know you personally to say whether you’re a schizo or not; for all I know, you could be some 15 year old teenage girl, maybe you deal crack at the corner to make ends meet, the hell I know, and if you’re either of the two figures I’ve painted, that’s all good, but your comments are really something else, and Leon is a good man to tell you to stop. I’m going by your comments, and your comments are getting to be too much of a bipolar whiplash type of deal. Now, tell us what you think about the original post, the hit list thing.

  39. Katy Newton — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:25 pm  

    Sunny, the “enormous offence” thing was directed at Desi, not you. I’m sorry, but being lectured about good internet manners by someone who leaps at the chance to fly off the handle is a bit much for me.

    Persephone, I didn’t expect you to know that she was my mother. I more wanted you to understand why I was more annoyed than I usually would be about something said to another commenter.

  40. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:39 pm  

    “Sunny, the “enormous offence” thing was directed at Desi, not you. I’m sorry, but being lectured about good internet manners by someone who leaps at the chance to fly off the handle is a bit much for me.”

    Katy, I agree with you 100% about my having flown off the handle more than once, used profanities, and head-bunted several commentators in the past, including taking jabs at Sunny. In short, my PP behavior has been far, far from perfect.

    But honestly, how many times have I turned like 6,7,8,9,10 threads wholly into me, me, me? Where have I commented and then threatened to leave and never ever post again, and then come back and subject everyone to the same freaking repetitive cycle the next time I/P comes up? When have I accused you or anyone else of ever being, say, anti-Muslim or anti-Palestinian? It’s hell of exhausting, and frankly, no more fun anymore to read PP threads about I/P because by then, it’s all about how slighted you feel, and then other posters feeling the need to write about how much the valued customer you are, blah blah blah, about how you will never ever grace us with your appearance again, how exhausted you are with having to write comments about yourself, etc. I frankly care more about the facts of what’s going on in Israel/Palestine, not pampering to a commentator’s Internet ego.

  41. douglas clark — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:46 pm  

    Desi @ 39,

    I’d hazard that you haven’t a clue what schizophrenia actually is, nor bi-polar disorder.

    What you do seem to have is quite a lot of invective.

    Your post is quite clever, you don’t accuse me of being a crack dealer, nor a 15 year old girl, which is all well and good, for I am neither. Just how you got both of these ideas into a short post is beyond me. Were they the first things that came into your head?

    I thought I was responding to the original post, perhaps you hadn’t cottoned on to the fact that it had two paragraphs?

    On the first para, it’s an open and shut case, as far as I am led to believe.

    On the second see comments passim……

  42. Imran Khan — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:46 pm  

    Folks,

    Please calm down and wait 10 minutes before posting.

    This is descending into something none of us want.

    So please calm down – passions are running high and I don’t think people who have known each other for many years mean everything said in the heat of the moment.

    Please relax as this isn’t worth ruining friendships over.

    Feelings are running high but please don’t descend into the same situation as those in the region.

    Lets calmly discuss things – Please

  43. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 6:57 pm  

    Re: comments moderation, can PP have a spam system that weeds through “good” troll comments and “bad” ones? Like some trolls have been quite funny, posting as the Indian PM Singh and Musharraf, or other trolls like whats-his/her-face was writing satirical ones? Because those make me laugh. The other trolls (anti-whatever religious, ethnicity, etc) can be deleted.

  44. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:02 pm  

    Ok, this is the reason why I closed the other thread. Enough of the accusations. We all behave a bit idiotically on here sometimes ok, that much is given.

    I really don’t want to keep talking about this now.

  45. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:12 pm  

    Sunny–I’d like to lodge a complaint. Actually, a confession.

    When you wrote

    “We’re also recording your IP addresses. Remember that.”,

    that really frightened me. I now feel like I can’t say what I want anymore; I feel like somewhere, someone is now keeping tabs on my thoughts. I feel vulnerable. It’s like I’m changing my clothes in front of forcefully opened windows and doors. Or that someone has taken my clothes and kept it for registration purposes, leaving me stranded as a naked, quivering babe in cyber-wilderness.

    I ask you what you get by issuing dark, menacing threats of recording our IP addresses. I urge you to reflect upon what this does to PP morale.

  46. Ravi Naik — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:15 pm  

    Feelings are running high but please don’t descend into the same situation as those in the region.

    Er…

  47. persephone — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:19 pm  

    Katy, no worries. It was as I said a perception – but e-writing can lead to that sometimes.

  48. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:23 pm  

    Imran:

    “Feelings are running high but please don’t descend into the same situation as those in the region.”

    I’m glad you said this, because I was about throw a phosphorous bomb at my computer screen out of anger. Or maybe shoot at the screen with my F-16. Or perhaps firing a Kassam rocket would have done the trick. I even contemplated using Dial-O-bombs, but of the computer kind: ie if you write a comment using certain keywords, your computer would blow up. When I started thinking of targeted assassinations of certain commentators, that’s when I read your comment; it immediately made me cool down and recognize the depths of my own follies and evilness.

    (NOTE: I am being sarcastic.)

  49. Ravi Naik — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:31 pm  

    (NOTE: I am being sarcastic.)

    No, you are not. :)

  50. Refresh — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:38 pm  

    If it helps I am throwing a party (my 21st).

    Fancy dress, all welcome. But please, to avoid clashes, I thought it’d be good idea if people suggested what they and others could wear.

    Trolls at the door to frisk and abuse you.

    Desi, sounds like you won’t need frisking.

    Come on get your suggestions in!

  51. Rumbold — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:41 pm  

    Will there be free alcohol Refresh, or is it bring your own bottle?

  52. Jai — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:42 pm  

    But please, to avoid clashes, I thought it’d be good idea if people suggested what they and others could wear.

    Nothing at all. Problem solved.

    Although it would take the mandatory frisking to a whole new level, eh.

  53. Don — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:53 pm  

    Leon, Refresh, Ravi and I (probably others)have already pointed out that I/P threads draw trolls like ants to a picnic. In that situation, if somebody new shows up then they should be regarded as chaff until demonstrably otherwise.

    After all, if someone spray painted offensive grafitti on my garden wall it would be a bit much for my neighbours to hold me responsible even as I scrubbed it off.

    Take trolls out of the equation and all that remains is that in highly charged debate some of us are apt to personalise the issue and spend a disproportionate amount of energy in demonstrating that they have been badly done by, while the actual topic fizzles out at around comment #8.

    On a well managed site – which this is – that should not be a problem because we recognise that we are multi-faceted individuals who can disagree passionately on one topic while agreeing on another and – when the dust settles – recognise each other as being possessed of good faith and honest intent despite our flawed human nature.

    Any I/P thread is going to be a snake-pit, but (to name but two) Rumbold and Leon are probably the best mods I have seen on any site I have visited, despite the fact that Rumbold is plain wrong on virtually any political issue and that the first words Leon addressed to me were ‘Fuck off’. They’ve been running themselves ragged cleaning up, and for more kicks than ha’pence.

    Having the last word does not mean that you win. We’re better than this.

    @#10
    Spoing.

  54. Refresh — on 29th January, 2009 at 7:59 pm  

    Rumbold, alcohol along with money are the roots of all evil.

    Bring your own – plastic bottles only, this is a classy event.

  55. Rumbold — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:00 pm  

    Good points Don (apart from the bit about me being wrong). I hope that as the Gaza situation dies down (for the present), the floatsam will wash itself away, leaving a clean surface for the rest of us to play on once again.

    Refresh:

    Heh. Can I bring my brown paper bag for my cider?

  56. Refresh — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:04 pm  

    Ah yes Brown paper bags are essential.

    I was going to say manda-tory but didn’t want it misconstrued.

  57. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:08 pm  

    Refresh:

    In terms of your party, I’m a self-loathing Hindu, so I was thinking of swathing myself in saffron shards, Swami-style. Apart from my own religion, I hate everyone else’s religion, so I was thinking of writing verses from the Old and New Testament and Koran on my naked body. It’s my idea of a “shock and awe campaign” for when I get de-robed and frisked at the door.

  58. Amrit — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:30 pm  

    I’ll just dispense with a costume and arrive with the brown paper bag over my head.

    Orrrrr… I could try to come as the Spirit of Jazz, that would be really rather awesome.

  59. Jai — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:32 pm  

    Okay, I’ve got another idea for the theme for Refresh’s party. Meerkats. We should all come dressed as freakin’ meerkats.

    Here are some suggestions:

    http://www.comparethemeerkat.com/home.html

    I had no idea this was a real fully-functioning website. It’s hilarious. The TV commercial (which most of us in the UK will probably have already seen) is really funny too.

    Brilliant stuff. Simples !

  60. Sunny — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:34 pm  

    I ask you what you get by issuing dark, menacing threats of recording our IP addresses.

    I like to scare people.

  61. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:34 pm  

    Ravi:

    “No, you are not. :)

    Ok, look, since my IP is getting recorded, I might as well come out clean.

    In the beginning, I selectively engaged with you and gave you undue attention to offset another set of popular, widely interacted commentators whom I disagreed with and wanted to destabilize. Call it “financing” or “funding”, or, if you will, “blog capital” for the social services you were providing to PP.

    Then, you started disagreeing with me–and at times, quite vehemently. That’s when I started to hate you just as much as the other camp I really detested. Since then, I’ve had a sustained campaign against you.

    I am sorry about this, but I have to defend myself against your missives towards me. Now, it’s time for an all-out commenting war. “Civil discussions” and “having talks at the table” so to speak are no longer a part of my vocabulary. In fact, they never were.

  62. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:36 pm  

    Jai:

    “Meerkats. We should all come dressed as freakin’ meerkats.”

    Oh, that is so cute. You know what meerkats do, right? They look for warm spots on humans’ bodies, and then cling or wrap themselves around the selected body part. Like necks and scrotums.

  63. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:37 pm  

    Can we bring tubes of toothpaste to squirt at one another?

  64. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 8:38 pm  

    Refresh:

    Are you really turning 21?

  65. chairwoman — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:04 pm  

    Has anybody seen the Cadbury’s Dairy Milk Ad?

  66. Rumbold — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:12 pm  

    With the gorilla?

    Desi:

    Is 62# sarcastic?

  67. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:20 pm  

    Rumbold my man, are you setting me up with that question? Yes, #62 is sarcastic. As was # 49. Just to reiterate.

  68. Rumbold — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:21 pm  

    Phew. Good to know.

  69. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:21 pm  

    Chairwoman:

    “Has anybody seen the Cadbury’s Dairy Milk Ad?”

    No, but you guys should check out the commercials for the Super Bowl. I saw previews last night, and the one about a pet adoption agency was hilarious!

  70. chairwoman — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:28 pm  

    Rumbold & Desi – Eyebrow children. It’s on the net. I’ll check Superbowl now. Pet adoption might make me cry (strokes gentle German Shepherd).

  71. Leon — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:42 pm  

    Rumbold and Leon are probably the best mods I have seen on any site I have visited, despite the fact that Rumbold is plain wrong on virtually any political issue and that the first words Leon addressed to me were ‘Fuck off’.

    Heh this made me actually laugh out loud!

    I know I can be combative, especially when I’m having a no patience day but I should say you’re without doubt one of my favourite people to read on here. Just a shame we don’t see more of you.

    Oh and if you ever come to a PP meet you’ll find I’m far nicer in person. ;)

  72. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:46 pm  

    CW:

    “Pet adoption might make me cry (strokes gentle German Shepherd).”

    The “gentle German Shepherd” bit has gotten me highly emotional. It’s because my dog–which is a Miniature Pinscher– is fucking Cujo in the flesh, and nowadays, I look at gentler, lovable, more obedient dogs with longing. Give me a 100 pound, affectionate and sweet-tempered Lassie that outweighs me any day over the miniature devil that takes every opportunity to bite me and steal my underwear.

  73. Desi Italiana — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:49 pm  

    Leon:

    “I know I can be combative, especially when I’m having a no patience day”

    Yeah, tell me about it. But I like it when you’ve worn out your patience. “Bloody mood swings” and an indignant, huffy, “You what?” lit up my computer screen.

    BF4-EVA, Leon. You and I.

  74. Leon — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:52 pm  

    Heh yeah I like people with passion, makes life fun!

  75. BenSix — on 29th January, 2009 at 9:58 pm  

    Father Jack would be a blogger, wouldn’t he.

    “Israel can FACK ORF. Palestine can FACK ORF. The Moderators can FACK ORF etc…”

    Ben

  76. Leon — on 29th January, 2009 at 10:05 pm  

    Who’s Father Jack?

  77. Ravi Naik — on 29th January, 2009 at 10:22 pm  

    No, but you guys should check out the commercials for the Super Bowl. I saw previews last night, and the one about a pet adoption agency was hilarious!

    I saw the PETA ad that was deemed too sexy to be broadcast during the Super Bowl. You know, vegetarians have better sex, and you see a bunch of women about to be amorous with assorted vegetables. I though that was hilarious – as well as their attempts to rename “fish” to “sea kittens” so people do not eat them.

    Nothing at all. Problem solved.

    Look out for the meerkats, Jai. :)

  78. Ravi Naik — on 29th January, 2009 at 10:27 pm  

    Who’s Father Jack?

    Father Ted. :) Ahh, go on, click the link…, go on…

  79. Refresh — on 29th January, 2009 at 11:02 pm  

    Yep, 21 again.

  80. Leon — on 29th January, 2009 at 11:47 pm  

    Oh god I can’t stand Father Ted…

  81. Refresh — on 29th January, 2009 at 11:50 pm  

    Leon, do you like the IT Crowd?

  82. Ravi Naik — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:09 am  

    I really wanted to hate the IT Crowd, but it is surprisingly funny. And so is the Mighty Boosh.

  83. BenSix — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:13 am  

    “And so is the Mighty Boosh.”

    Jesus man, declaring yourself a closet Republican I could have just about dealt with, but THIS…

  84. Leon — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:15 am  

    Watched the IT Crowd a few times, it’s fairly tepid and Chris Morris is/was wasted in it. The Mighty Boosh I found about as unfunny as Father Ted…

  85. Refresh — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:19 am  

    I guess if you like Father Ted, you would like IT Crowd.

    I should say I can’t stand that old geezer in the corner. Initially I couldn’t watch it because of him, then I learned to blank him out and it became surprisingly funny.

  86. Leon — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:27 am  

    The humour is just bland to me…I prefer things like Peep Show or Frasier (and of course Family Guy!)…

  87. Ravi Naik — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:37 am  

    Jesus man, declaring yourself a closet Republican I could have just about dealt with, but THIS…

    Oh, don’t tell me… you also prefer Frasier as well? :)

  88. Leon — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:40 am  

    I also like the oldies like Cheers and the newer oldies like Friends (that last part may surprise some)…

  89. Leon — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:42 am  

    Oh yeah and Scrubs and My Name Is Earl!

  90. BenSix — on 30th January, 2009 at 12:48 am  

    “Oh, don’t tell me… you also prefer Frasier as well?”

    Tsh. No call to start flinging around accusations like that. I’d have to be ill to watch Frasier (srsly, it’s only on at weekday mornings).

    Nah, I’m not a fan. But The Mighty Boosh is just too “edgy”, “in”, and “out there”. Moreover, it’s driven far too many people to think that they’re “RANDOM LOLZ” for taking one animal, one human action/attribute and combining the two.

    Not that I take comedy too seriously, or anything (but I’m going to hunt down and butcher the TV commissioners).

    Ben

  91. Rumbold — on 30th January, 2009 at 9:59 am  

    Leon:

    You think Family Guy is better than Father Ted? Oh dear. Have you ever watched the priests over 75s football tournament episode? If not, then you haven’t really lived.

  92. Leon — on 30th January, 2009 at 10:02 am  

    You think Family Guy is better than Father Ted?

    FT isn’t even the same universe as FG…oh yeah I also love Spaced (that really shouldn’t surprise given my age/generation)!

  93. Jai — on 30th January, 2009 at 11:04 am  

    Ravi,

    Look out for the meerkats, Jai.

    Seriously Sooty, that website is for real and you can actually do searches for the type of meerkat you’re looking for (“Scubakat” etc). Whatever advertising agency was behind the campaign has obviously had a lot of creative fun, it’s quite surreal stuff and full of Borat-style dodgy English. The fake profiles for each meerkat are really funny too — and no prizes for guessing what’s in the background of the pictures for the furry little critters if you pick “Agra” as the location.

    Oh yeah and Scrubs

    Agreed.

    I thought “The Green Room” — along similar surreal lines, and also based in a hospital — was unusually funny too for a British sitcom, when it was on Channel 4 a couple of years ago.

    As for the current stuff…..I’m a huge fan of the very lairy “Two and a Half Men”. Superb.

    “30 Rock” is a bit wackier and unpredictable but it has its moments; Alec Baldwin is really good and has all the best lines, especially since a lot of them are pretty outrageous and suddenly spoken by him very quickly in his usual gruff way — you end up doing double-takes and thinking “Wait a minute, did he really just say what I think he did ?!”.

    Oh, don’t tell me… you also prefer Frasier as well?

    “Frasier” is probably the best of ‘em all in terms of overall quality of scriptwriting and intelligence. The show also had enough highbrow (and sometimes obscure) cultural references to accurately reflect the interests and background of characters like Frasier and Niles, rather than patronisingly “dumbing down” the script to cater for the supposed ignorance of the audience.

  94. Leon — on 30th January, 2009 at 11:22 am  

    I thought “The Green Room” — along similar surreal lines, and also based in a hospital — was unusually funny too for a British sitcom, when it was on Channel 4 a couple of years ago.

    Yep that was pretty good. I used to love Monkey Dust too, that was some strange s*#t! The cyclists in that were fantastic!

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