Many of you have little knowledge of the way muslims treat non-muslims in muslims countries as you always seem so concerned about how they are treated in the west.

I can tell you about my friend who is white when we were going to saudi arabia he got stopped by Customs and searched, they found a bible in his bag and they asked him what it was for, he said for reading at it was for a long journey. They took him away for nearly 2 hours questioning him about what he doing in Saudi Arabia. I thought he was going to go to jail. In the end they let him go after taking his bible and chain which had a cross on it.

I was shocked and pretty scared but he told me it was the same for most Islamic countries he visits like on his visit to the maldives. During our time in Saudi Arabia he told me many things about how non-muslims are treated in Islamic countries, i thought most of it must have been out of anger but after doing a bit research in the internet found some shocking results. You shoud do the same.

You wrote:

“Let me make it very simple to u. How can u make cartoons on some person whom u dint know?”

There is a very simple answer to that. You dont have to know someone in order to make a cartoon on him.
Fx. I can draw a picture of Zishan Khan with a bomb in his turban, even though i dont know you. In fact kids in kindergartens all over the world draw cartoons of things they dont know every day. Also adults do this. Fx. i doubt that most cartoonists really know George W. Bush, or Osama Bin Laden for that matter.

Another issue is whether the danish cartoonists know Muhammad or not.
Well i actually think their drawings do indicate that they know him very well indeed. Some of the drawings actually dont even depict Muhammad. I assume that those cartoonist actually know the (alleged?) ban on depicting Muhammad. There is also one of the cartoons which only draws muhammad abstractly (with stars and moon, and writing etc). This cartoonist obviously also knows the alleged ban mentioned above. If you look at the cartoon with the bomb in the turban, that simply illustrates the FACT that there are people who blow themselves up in the name of Muhammad. That drawing is therefore seen as an example of how people actually JEOPARDIZE muhammad with their terror-attacks. The fact that the boms is only lit, not exploded does give some hope doesnt it ?.

Do you know Jyllands – Posten for you to critizise their motives ?. Did you even read the article printed in connexion with the drawings ?.

If you draw my mother as a prostitute – which you are completely entitled too, if you feel it has any news value or for any other reason – then I just have to accept that. You have any right to to this.
However on a presonal level i would find it rather silly given the fact that noone have killed anyone in the name of my mother because she have directed an islam-critical movie, and no art-exhibits displaying my mother have been cancelled because of “self”-censorship imposed by muslim threats. Like it happend in London and Stockholm fx.

“For every muslim that believe in islam would consider prophet as his father”.

Yes you are right. But as a non-muslim, you dont consider him your father. He might be YOUR father whom you have a personal relationship with, but I dont consider him to be MY father, neither should you impose him on me as a father to me.

“By creating a cartoon u made a joke on muslims father and that may be intentional or non intentional. But as a editor u forgot u r principles. Your work is to provide information that is correct but not provide false information in any form.”

I dont see how Jyllands Postens cartoons in any way are false information. Let me tell you the background:

Originally 40 cartoonists got the task to draw Muhammad as “they see him”, bear in mind they werent ask to draw muhammad in a negative way !.
Only 12 had the guts to do this. The others feared the radical muslims, and some of them also had other contractual obligations. So in fact the information is not false: The drawings not only percieve how the 12 cartoonists see Muhammad (very differently if i may add here) but also some of the cartoons show how alot of people in the West see the idology of radical Islam, namely as an ideology willing to use violence as a mean of reaching the Kalifath – state – universally.

Will you deny that there is this radical movement in some islamic countries. Will you deny people killing others for this aim. In the name of Muhammad ?.

What is false information though is the story that the radical danish imams brought with them on their campaign to the middle east, about numerous issues.

To mention a few ( I cant write them all here):

That they had support from 200.000 danish muslims. The fact was that a mere 5.000 (including children) stood behind their organisations.

That all the images they brought with them had been printed in danish newspapers.
The fact was that they brought their own as well, including one from a pig-scream-contest in Frances.

That there are no mosques in Denmark.
The fact is that there are numerous mosques in Denmark. Tou can go to http://www.islam.dk and order a tour in one !

That there are public Quaran-burnings in Denmark. That is a straight up lie. Never has been. Denmark has one of Europes lowest rate for hate-violence against muslims. It happens very very very rarely, especially if you compare it to the violence the other way round. But generally ethnic danes and muslims get along VERY well here !.

That the Queen of Denmark is a racist.
She never was, never has been.

That muslim in Denmark are mistreated.
Another lie. Muslims are treated like all other citizens here. But naturatlly their religion is also exposed to critizism, like anyone elses here. In fact alot of measures have been taken to accomodate muslilms in Denmark. For ex. Halal-meat is the only meat being served in Public schools in Copenhagen. Muslim girls are allowed to seperately shower, to avoid them from showering with “infidels” etc. etc..

That islam is forbidden in Denmark.
The state has acknowledged more than 14 lines of Islam as officially accepted religions. So again a str8 up lie.

That there are no burial grounds for muslims in Denmark.
The fact is that there are numerous, including in Copenhagen, Odense and Aarhus.

SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT FALSE INFORMATION TO SOMEONE ELSE ??

Peter Pedersen

Let me make it very simple to u. How can u make cartoons on some person whom u dint know?

By doing that u r not exercising freedom of speech. But simply doing what u feel right. Pardon my example. if i draw u r mother as a prostitute and say i am just practicing my editorial rights.

For every muslim that believe in islam would consider prophet as his father. By creating a cartoon u made a joke on muslims father and that may be intentional or non intentional. But as a editor u forgot u r principles. Your work is to provide information that is correct but not provide false information in any form.

question to u MR. Peter.

Have u seen prophet Mohammad or prophet Jesus any one of the prophets in u r life?

How can u portray any one whom u don’t know as some other person as a cartoon or anything?

by posting u r providing wrong information then there is no
meaning of u being an editor. You better write some fiction novels. As an editor of a news paper it is u r responsibility the information that is there in u r newspaper should be 100% accurate.

This is to hari.

I completely agree with u that a man shouldn’t be killed or beheaded for drawing cartoon. But he should be for building so much tension between religions and government and causing property , life loss that happen all over the world. Since it was his cartoons that created so much of fuzz and he should be held responsible for that since he is not below 18 to do such a silly mistake.

I liked the Impressionist, but personaly I liked Transmission evn more. Is another book coming soon?

‘Can you honestly look at the Al Muj website – choice items such as ‘Homosexual Today, Paedophile Tomorrow’ – and say you have no wish to clarify? ‘

I’m an American, and while Bush is no where near as bad as Al Mujahiroun, the extreme religious right in this country DOES equate homosexuality with pedophilia on a regular basis. And Bush sided with these people in their (sadly, successful) bid to ban gay marriage in 23 states.
There seems to be a theory floated in neo-lib/libertarian circles that deep down Bush is a closet progressive on social issues (abortion, gay and minority rights, etc.)
This just isn’t true. Bush is exactly what he always said says he was (though since dropping in the polls he says it far less often), a Republican on the religious side of the party.

Glad to see an intelligent debate has begun

“…as for the statement that ‘Danmark is racist’, I think that is kinda… well racist. Unless you spoke to every Dane that is. *grin*”

I would agree except for a Muslim I am a terrorist because an explosion happened in Iraq or London. Generalizations make sense when they arent about you.

One thing that makes me nervous about some of the people making the loudest anti-Muslim noises in the latest culture war is that they’re the same folk who were desperate to interpret last year’s riots in France as an intifada

But I do lean towards the idea that immigrants should be forced into English/Danish tests etc so as to empower them to participate in the society they choose to emigrate to, rather than just be the objects of ridicule by the mainstream right. At the same time, it empowers the women to have a firmer footing if they’re left stranded by husbands etc. So while I agree on learning the language, I come at it from a different (and more humanitarian angle). Deporting would be against their rights I’d say

I think immigrants to Denmark should be asked to learn Danish… and if they refuse, then deport them.

Simple, really.

was going to say something, but, Ayaan does it so much more better than I ever could:

http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/categorie/46044

as for the statement that ‘Danmark is racist’, I think that is kinda… well racist. Unless you spoke to every Dane that is. *grin*

Lighten up people, the old SWP methods of discussing and qualifying simple do not suffice for the task in hand anymore. There is no point in violently agreeing and then arguing over an outdated political dogma, such as the concept of ‘rascism’. Not saying it does not exist (muslims are quite racist as we found out in the past week) but, to combat the problem in hand, more differentiation is neccessary.

Moreover, the Muslims have reacted to their unhappy welcome with racism of their own. My friend the photographer and me were nearly run over by an Asian taxi driver.

seanT:

How did you know the tourist guide haranguer and the malevolent taxi driver were both, erm, erm, erm, you know, one of them lot? You know. Moozalim.

Did you ask for circumcision confirmation as the driver sped off? You are allowed to make up stories, but such sad generalisations can only come from one a Harry’s Place type.

was meant to be funny or nor I don’t know.
But in Denmark it’s in fact a problem that mainly parts of the muslim population – doesn’t know danish. How do you think they can get a job if they are not able to speak or read the language.
One of the jokes in this affair is in fact that the Imans who are leading protests have been granted political asylum, and have been in Denmark for years without bothering to learn the language and have been living on social welfare, which in fact are rather generous.
You have to se the new danish Immigration politics in context of this. You can’t reduce the change in politics to
Xenophobia.
The danish Society have structural problem with immigration, because it’s very difficault to integrate some of the muslims immigrants in the workplace.
Especially those who have a backgound i rural areas from Turkey, Pakistan or Libanon.
And if they don’t have a job, their chances to be a part of the society ( and their childrens chances ) are rather small. You could say – well if they wan’t to take the chance well OK? , Yeah right, but the problem is that many of them through mariage are inclined to social benefits, housing and so on.
So Sean I don’t mind that they don’t learn danish, but why should I pay for them – Can you answer this Question ?

Thanks for the excellent post. Its very satisfying to see your sentiments resonate with those of many of the regular bloggers and commenters here on Pickled Politics.

My experiences of living and working in Denmark are more were more inclusive and tolerant than your experieces of the place, it would seem. Denmark was not a country I found to be inherently racist in a “southern redneck” manner. It has one of the most progressive records in Human Rights initiatives worldwide, and, in addition, puts its money where its mouth is by being one of the highest donors of humanitarian aid in Western Europe.

The Right-wards shift in its politics since I was last there has obviously percolated down from on high, affecting the way people of different races deal with each other “on the street”. When I was there, I found Danes to be laid back and affectionate, but also able to be blunt and boorish with it.

When I see the way Danes react to its immigrants now, it reminds me of the way Britain reacted to her immigrants back in the 60s and 70s. The tolerance is begrudging and seems to be tempered with scorn and disdain. And yes, hatred. And the immigrants stoically putting up with it for “the sake of the children”.

This is why I don’t agree with your conclusion as it seems to round off the blame of anti-Muslim sentiment to “Bush” which seems a off the mark and sensationalist in a post 9/11 kind of way. You were right all along when you said that the sentiments behind the cartoons are simply ineffable racist bigotry, “the kind that lots of middle-class people express to one another at dinner parties when they think nobody from an ethnic minority is there to hear”. So true.

Interesting article – but why, in the name of heaven did you have to end it with an absurdity?

“the equally heinous world-views of Bush and Al Mujahiroun”

Can you honestly look at the Al Muj website – choice items such as ‘Homosexual Today, Paedophile Tomorrow’ – and say you have no wish to clarify?