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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Morons attack Jews


    by Rumbold on 8th January, 2009 at 9:21 pm    

    Since the Gaza conflict started, there has been an upsurge in anti-Semitic attacks. While this is not surprising, it is still rather depressing news. Yes, some people will have used the conflict as an excuse to attack Jews, but others don’t seem to realise that Mrs. Cohen from number twelve isn’t the head of the IDF. Muslims too have faced these sort of idiots after terrorist attacks, usually trying to explain that while they are Muslim, they don’t oversee training camps in Pakistan, or decide Saudi Arabia’s religious policy.

    Minorities often have to put up with these types of mindless attacks, because people, aided by the state and media, tend to view them as a homogenous mass. As a result, it becomes easier to demonise one for the failings of another member of that ‘group’. Since this stereotyping doesn’t happen to white people, most people don’t really give it much thought.

    The Jews have been demonised more than most throughout their history. Apart from the well-known events such as the Holocaust or the Eastern European pogroms of the preceding decades, they have also had to endure that most horrific of all generalisations; causing the death of Christ. Jews were blamed collectively by some people for the death of Jesus (neatly allowing the nearly Christianised Roman Empire in the 4th century to avoid any blame), and the charge stuck, with Jews banned from most trades (one of the few open to them was moneylender, as Christians were banned from lending money at excessive interest). Petty reminders of this have dogged them for centuries, such as when the 12th century Byzantine emperor Manuel Comnenus imposed a fine of thirty pieces of silver (what Judas got for betraying Christ) on Jews for certain offences.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Gaza conflict, let’s try and avoid stereotyping people because of their race or religion. Otherwise we might as well strive for a country with only one race and one religion, as that will be the only way to avoid tension in the future.

    (Hat-tip: Marvin for the anti-Semitic article)



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    70 Comments below   |  

    1. Boyo — on 8th January, 2009 at 10:08 pm  

      I’ve just posted @57 on the Israeli Minister thread -

      I am coming to conclude that in the same way as not all Met Police officers are racist, but the Met Police can be said to be institutionally racist, that while not all leftists are anti-semites, a large element of the left is increasingly culturally anti-semitic.

      - it is apparent in some Muslim discourse that there is a blurred line, to put it charitably, between Jew and Zionist. In this week’s Gulf News for example, a column headlined Zionists are the new Nazis, by Dr Mohammad Abdullah Al Mutawa, professor of sociology at UAE University, Al Ain, no less, writes:

      “Today, the whole world stands as a witness to the fact that the Nazi holocaust was a mere lie, which was devised by the Zionists to blackmail humanity. The same Zionist entity swindled the world out of billions of dollars over the years to compensate the wrong and unjust which they claim to have been inflicted on their people.

      “It is evident that the holocaust was a conspiracy hatched by the Zionists and Nazis, and many innocent people gave their lives as a result of this inhuman plot.”

      http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/region/10272422.html

      Hamas of course have recently called for the worldwide murder of Jewish children.

      This degree of anti-semitism is (and I’m certainly no expert) apparently quite new to the Muslim world, derived to a large extent as a result of the foundation of Israel, Arab humiliations, but firmly underpinned by a Christian culture of anti-semitism 2000 years old. The Protocols are regularly cited as fact in the Muslim discourse, despite their invention by Tzarist spies in the 19th Century.

      What I perceive as the unsettling development of cultural anti-semitism by the “progressive left” exists in this context. Fueled by an opposition to any friend of the US and a sympathy for the underdog no doubt, but read the scorn poured on “Zionists” by posters on CIF and there appears to me to be something deeper, and older, going on.

      I don’t see any logical reason for it, except I suppose that even clever leftists are human too and subject to unconscious forces that can emerge according to the circumstances, and even the most well-meaning people can inadvertently find themselves subject to a kind of contextual “slip” - in this case downhill to into partiality, or even irrational hatred.

    2. marvin — on 8th January, 2009 at 10:11 pm  

      FYI

      Here is another article I have just stumbled up on, detailing various incidents

      http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2009/01/the-new-anti-se.html

      Here is one about bullying in the classroom due to situation with Israel

      http://timesonline.typepad.com/schoolgate/2009/01/why-are-your-pe.html

      I think we all here had a heightened awareness of idiots targeting innocent Muslims after various terror attacks, I think we should keep in mind that many people of Jewish descent in recent weeks feel a little besieged and overwhelmed by hostile reactions that seem be directed in their general direction when expressing any sympathy or support for Israel…

    3. Boyo — on 8th January, 2009 at 10:12 pm  

      Oh and of course this partiality creates the climate and momentum for anti-semitic attacks by thugs who don’t distinguish between “Zionist” and “Jew”, Israel and England.

    4. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:24 am  

      The Jews have been demonised more than most throughout their history.

      I’m not sure statements like that are helpful the point isn’t to create a league table of who’ve been the most victimised ethnic group in human history.

    5. Imran Khan — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:35 am  

      I am afraid it wasn’t morons and your headline is incorrect.

      It should read Cowards attack Jews in the UK.

      Moron is I am afraid a bit of a let off.

      Call it what it is a cowardly attack.

    6. douglas clark — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:51 am  

      Rumbold,

      Well said. An excellent call to reason. I think that the only realistic way to look at this is as a conjunction of political failure and a humanitarian disaster.

      It is, almost certainly, something that no-one in the UK will have any influence over. So, what’s the point of threatening folk in Golders Green?

      And, before anyone asks, so were the anti-Muslim responses to 9/11, in my opinion.

      Attacking anyone because of some loose idea about collective responsibility - when they have had absolutely no say in what is done - is probably the true last refuge of a scoundrel.

      Though a lot of folk, on both sides of the arguement, are losing their damn minds.

    7. Sunny — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:53 am  

      I get the feeling we’re saying this just to make ourselves feel better.

      I would be more surprised if we didn’t think any sort of violent attack, let alone a hate crime, wasn’t committed by a moron / idiot / imbecile etc.

      It’s like, I write about the anti-semitic hit list not because I want to play the victim card, but because the mainstream media narrative is that Muslims are out to get Jews, given some comments posted on a website.

      The only response to that by people like Marvin or Boyo is - “well, why aren’t you talking about anti-semitism”… because frankly they are the ones playing a game of oppressed minorities. They’re as pathetic as the likes of Lee Jasper that they condemn.

      they’re not interested in having sympathy for people attacked, but depending on who is hurt.

      So, I think this post partly goes against what we stand for. We’re here to represent unheard voices, marginalised in the mainstream… from a progressive viewpoint.

      Yet it feels to me like this post is inspired just to give the impression that we hate race-hate crime equally. Frankly, anyone who doesn’t think that is a moron. And I don’t really want to follow their editorial agenda.

    8. Steve M — on 9th January, 2009 at 1:34 am  

      My son (Jewish father, German Catholic mother) was watching some kids at his school playing football.

      “That boy’s really good” he said, pointing to a boy 50 yards away.

      “Which boy?” I asked.

      “The one over there” he said a little exasperated “the white boy”.

      “White boy?” I said.

      “Yes”, he said, “the boy in the white shirt”.

      Turned out that the boy in the white shirt was a black kid, actually from Ghana, but my son obviously didn’t see him that way.

      When do we start to see people that way?

    9. douglas clark — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:16 am  

      Sunny,

      I said:

      I think that the only realistic way to look at this is as a conjunction of political failure and a humanitarian disaster.

      Which I thought was your position too?

      Rumbold’s point, surely, is that in the UK none of us have much influence. He said:

      “but others don’t seem to realise that Mrs. Cohen from number twelve isn’t the head of the IDF. Muslims too have faced these sort of idiots after terrorist attacks, usually trying to explain that while they are Muslim, they don’t oversee training camps in Pakistan, or decide Saudi Arabia’s religious policy.”

      And, I’d add to that and say, what is happening in the ME is poisoning relationships between people here.

      It is certainly not about feeling good. It is about recognising just how corrosive the I/P issue is on us.

      You have pointed out the fact that there is a fifth column at work, here:

      http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2009/01/in_search_of_ri.asp

      This is a messy business. There is so much disinformation floating around that I doubt anyone outside the loop really knows what is going on. We are almost certainly being lied to, propogandised even, by both sides. You were the one that pointed out it is a media war as much as a war on the ground.

      I can’t see anything wrong with Rumbold’s post in a UK context. Could you explain to me, and the rest of us, what we are missing?

      I agree with your humanitarian objectives - stop the fighting in Gaza - and start talking. Preferably with President Obama knocking heads together. Or sooner.

    10. Sunny — on 9th January, 2009 at 5:02 am  

      I’m not having a go at Rumbold at all. He always means well and I don’t doubt his motives.
      I just think there are other people who expect us to run our editorial in a particular way, and I’m pointing out why I won’t.

    11. Katy Newton — on 9th January, 2009 at 7:39 am  

      So, I think this post partly goes against what we stand for. We’re here to represent unheard voices, marginalised in the mainstream

      Your editorial direction is up to you, but when you start implying that people on your site shouldn’t write about an escalation in attacks on an ethnic minority because a minority of dickheads might think you’re trying to appease them… I don’t even know what to say. This site has reported attacks on all sorts of other ethnic minorities because that’s what this site *used* to do. The Jewish community is a tiny proportion of this country and it suffers just as much abuse as any other. We are just as marginalised. Again, and I can’t believe I have to point this out to you, we are not Israel. We are a tiny community in a country which by and large doesn’t like us very much. You certainly reported attacks on Muslims when idiots tried to hold them responsible for the July bombings, and you stood up for them then.

      If anything, it would be an editorial distortion not to report the fact that Jews are being attacked over something that they aren’t actually collectively responsible for. Unless of course you think they are.

      It disappoints me that you think that Rumbold shouldn’t have written this post - and it really disappoints me that you’d be so unprofessional as to undermine him in public. I note that you have no criticism to make about the content. I have to say that I can’t remember you ever suggesting that any other contingent of commenters was trying to “influence editorial” before, and I’m not sure why you’d think that a handful of people who don’t agree with you are trying to tell you what to write now, on this subject in particular.

    12. Sofia — on 9th January, 2009 at 9:58 am  

      it’s wrong to attack ppl here because of what is going on…even if those ppl allegedly support one side or the other..i don’t see how attacking their places of worship etc is going to achieve anything….idiots don’t really need an excuse for their behaviour.

    13. platinum786 — on 9th January, 2009 at 9:58 am  

      It was bound to happen. There are bad apples everywhere, within every community, and the acts of state sponsored terror the middle east only added fuel to the fire.

      It’s regrettable nonetheless, but no need to call in the TA yet.

    14. Rumbold — on 9th January, 2009 at 10:21 am  

      Leon:

      “I’m not sure statements like that are helpful the point isn’t to create a league table of who’ve been the most victimised ethnic group in human history.”

      Point taken. But the statement is sadly still true.

      Imran Khan:

      I agree that they are cowards as well, but I wanted to emphasize the moronic nature of people who attack those who have nothing to do what is happening hundreds of miles away.

      Katy and Douglas:

      Thank you for your kind words. But in no way was Sunny trying to undermine me. He is an excellent editor who gives us all the freedom to write what we want. After all, he must disagree with at least half of what I write, yet lets me continue posting. How many other editors would do that?

      Sunny:

      I agree that we shouldn’t let others dictate our editorial agenda. But it does us no harm, when so much has been written on Israeli actions in Gaza, to emphasize that innocent Jewish people are suffering as a result of this as well.

    15. chairwoman — on 9th January, 2009 at 10:34 am  

      Of course, Sunny, PP is your toy, and you are entitled to say who plays with it, but is that what you want it to become? One of those sites where you have to ‘register’ to comment, comment only in agreement with the site, or no comments at all?

      The thing that the majority of commenters here have in common is that we are all minorities, we are all marginalised, and we are all prejudiced against at some time.

      And if you feel that somebody has had to remind you that that’s how the situation is, then perhaps you should be thanking them, be it Marvin or perhaps Sofia or The Dude (I have taken these names at random, and as they say on reality shows ‘in no particular order’) as it may mean that you have forgotten who Sunny Hundal is.

      Written more in sorrow than in anger.

    16. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 10:37 am  

      Point taken. But the statement is sadly still true.

      Whether it’s true or not is immaterial given the context I’m driving at. We don’t need yet another round of people digging up ancient history to prove their ethnic group is worse off than others at the moment.

    17. Sofia — on 9th January, 2009 at 10:50 am  

      comment 8 - I have a friend who i’ve known for over 25 years who is a teacher in a preparatory school…in the last year she has come to me twice with ‘issues’ to do with muslim and jewish kids…the first being about a muslim kid saying that he wasn’t going to draw a star because it symbolised being a jew…and another issue to do a school (not hers) not doing the nativity play because it was so close to Eid…i was shocked on a number of levels…first of all that my friend who knows me inside out as a practising muslim would have actually asked me whether drawing stars is offensive to muslims..and more shocked that this was brought up by a kid..what the hell are this kid’s parents teaching him???!!!!!

      The other issue around not doing a nativity play because of Eid…is ridiculous, stupid, dumb and any other pejorative word i can think of…and i told her that stories like these only reinforce horrid stereotypes about muslims…those schools that use this as an excuse are diabolical.

      My point really is that schools need to be places of inclusivity…children reinforcing learned stereotypes need to have their parents hauled in for an explanation…teachers need to be given training on how to deal with these issues if they arise…my friend didn’t actually know how to deal with the ’star’ incident…i would’ve told the kid..so what…and then told the parents what their child had said…

    18. Sunny — on 9th January, 2009 at 10:59 am  

      but when you start implying that people on your site shouldn’t write about an escalation in attacks on an ethnic minority because a minority of dickheads might think you’re trying to appease them

      Don’t think you got it. My point was this has been covered widely in the media, so repeating it is unnecessary because we’re not adding anything new to the conversation.

      We are a tiny community in a country which by and large doesn’t like us very much.

      I think this is nonsense. Muslims might have negative attitudes towards Jews but I think most Britons are positively disposed.

      Anyway, I don’t know how you say: disappoints me that you’d be so unprofessional as to undermine him in public.

      when you used to do that yourself. And as I’ve said above, this post definitely was not an attack on Rumbold. You’re completely twisting around what I’ve said, and not for the first time.

    19. chairwoman — on 9th January, 2009 at 11:24 am  

      “I think this is nonsense. Muslims might have negative attitudes towards Jews but I think most Britons are positively disposed.”

      *Lies on floor, kicks legs in air and laughs hysterically*

    20. Katy Newton — on 9th January, 2009 at 11:28 am  

      I sometimes disagreed with what you said in an article, Sunny. It’s called “debate”. Just as you sometimes disagreed with me. But I don’t think I ever said on a thread on this site that I thought you shouldn’t have written about something at all. If I am wrong please point it out.

      And I am not “twisting round” what you said. You said you didn’t think that Rumbold should have posted what he did.

      My point was this has been covered widely in the media, so repeating it is unnecessary because we’re not adding anything new to the conversation.

      It has been covered to some extent, yes. You regularly direct us to and comment upon stories from the BBC, the Daily Mail, the Guardian, the Times and the Telegraph, not to mention other blogs and other news sources. Is that something that you now intend to stop doing?

    21. Refresh — on 9th January, 2009 at 11:37 am  

      Much as I disagree with Marvin on everything - he is unconvincing at the best of times - this topic was one which I had thought needed covering. Jai had mentioned it and I was going to back him up. But felt it wouldn’t be long before it came up. And now it has, you are dissatisfied.

      The reasons for covering it are manifold, not least because it is unacceptable and I believe we are in it together. Although I don’t agree that events off-shore do not impact things here. They always have done. This more than very many.

    22. Katy Newton — on 9th January, 2009 at 11:46 am  

      this topic was one which I had thought needed covering

      I was glad that it had been. No one thinks that the writers of this site are in favour of race attacks generally. However, given the amount of antisemitic comments that Leon has had to work overtime (to to speak) to remove, I was pleased that someone had taken a moment to explicitly point out that it is wrong to hold Jews outside Israel responsible for what is currently happening.

      It’s a shame that Sunny chose to see that as “appeasement”.

      It’s also interesting that Sunny considers antisemitic attacks, which have been reported to a relatively small extent in the media, to merit no coverage here because they’ve been reported elsewhere, whereas the situation in Gaza, which has been widely reported by every major news outlet and in every national daily, apparently has not been reported elsewhere and therefore merits a post at least four times a day. Usually, of course, pointing TO a news story that has already been reported.

      You understand that I am not criticising the decision to post on Gaza. Not at all. It is only natural that it should be up for discussion. That’s what I like about blogs. But to criticise someone else for publishing about something which actually hasn’t been nearly as widely reported is somewhat hypocritical, no?

    23. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:02 pm  

      However, given the amount of antisemitic comments that Leon has had to work overtime (to to speak) to remove

      Me, Rumbold, Sunny to be clear.

      One reason I never got round to writing a similar piece to Rumbold’s (although I wouldn’t have had quite the same character as his) was the few minutes I had here and there during the work day to do it was taken up with deleting those bloody comments.

      As for the rest of your comment, I’m not so sure it’s that straight forward. No one is talking about holding Jewish people collectively responsible. But surely a public figure (whether Jewish or not) should be held accountable for their views?

    24. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:05 pm  

      I should go onto say, I think it’s equally important, being that we’re meant to be progressives, to show those Israeli’s that are against this action.

      I just think with all the new people reading and commenting we need to re-iterate how we see things, make sure we’re clear and try and be fair where our understanding of the facts allow.

    25. Katy Newton — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:10 pm  

      As for the rest of your comment, I’m not so sure it’s that straight forward. No one is talking about holding Jewish people collectively responsible. But surely a public figure (whether Jewish or not) should be held accountable for their views?

      What, generally? Of course. Everyone is responsible for their own views, and that’s where the whole community leader thing breaks down, as Sunny has always (rightly) said, because they don’t speak for their community, only for some of it (and usually the vocal fringe).

      I’ve never thought, for example, that if MPAC comes out with some ridiculous statement that is open to criticism, Sid or Sonia or Kismet or Rayyan or whoever should be expected to denounce it. I don’t see MPAC as representing anyone but MPAC.

      Similarly, the Chief Rabbi, for example, doesn’t represent me. He’s the head of the United Synagogue, which is a religious branch of the Jewish community here; there is no one who represents me, because I’m unaffiliated, and even if I was a member of the United Synagogue I have no power to make the Chief Rabbi say what I think or stop him from saying something I don’t agree with.

    26. Katy Newton — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:12 pm  

      One reason I never got round to writing a similar piece to Rumbold’s

      Nonono, there is no obligation on anyone to write anything. I wasn’t actually lobbying for a piece of that nature, although I was glad to see it. I comment on what’s posted, I don’t (contrary to what Sunny seems to think) try to influence people to post or not to post what they want. I was just very surprised that Sunny thought it went against his “editorial direction”.

    27. Jai — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:16 pm  

      The Jews have been demonised more than most throughout their history.

      Well, in Europe and (it appears) more recently in the Middle-East. Not necessarily elsewhere.

      Other groups in other parts of the world have been (locally) demonised pretty badly too.

      Just a minor point of clarifiction, not an attempt to promote some kind of “league table of victimhood”.

      Otherwise we might as well strive for a country with only one race and one religion,

      Unfortunately, as we all know, there are still plenty of rednecks around in Dear Ol’ Blighty who would prefer that to be the case. They’re not necessarily actively pushing for this, of course, and they’re not members of the BNP either, but they wouldn’t shed any tears if the rest of us suddenly disappeared overnight.

      Minorities often have to put up with these types of mindless attacks, because people, aided by the state and media, tend to view them as a homogenous mass. As a result, it becomes easier to demonise one for the failings of another member of that ‘group’.

      As I’ve mentioned before on PP, it’s not just Muslims who’ve had to bear the brunt of such bigotry during the past few years but also Asians in general, since a surprising number of people seem to have erroneously got it into their heads that anyone originally from the subcontinent is Muslim by default. Even worse is the fact that such people frequently don’t try to address their misconceptions and sometimes become very defensive and irate if you point out how wrong their assumptions are.

      There are also some very weird ideas out there about Asians automatically being hyperconservative religious nuts (regardless of their religious affiliation), especially those that don’t drink — particularly in the case of guys.

      I’ve even got into arguments with people who insist in blaming Asians en masse for Islamic extremism and terrorism because, in Britain, “Asians are more likely to be Muslim than white people are”.

      So, what’s the point of threatening folk in Golders Green?

      Notions of “collective responsibility/group guilt”. Or just an act of bullying and cowardice — the perpetrators can’t take out their anger and bigotry on people actually in Israel, so they just attack the nearest suitable target instead.

      *****************

      Excellent, timely and much-needed article anyway, Rumbold. I agree with both the sentiment and most of the contents.

    28. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:24 pm  

      Nonono, there is no obligation on anyone to write anything.

      It depends on what kind of obligation your talking. I think we do have some kind; we have a reason people come here and expectation or reputation we should preserve (and progress!).

      We’ve seen a huge rise in the traffic to this site in the last ten or so days, those new people aren’t necessarily going to go digging into the archive to get a feel for the site, they’ll read what they see and respond. Hence it’s critical they get the best introduction to the site.

      If we’re to serve some kind of purpose (no matter how small our influence) I think it’s wise to consider how we’re received from time to time.

    29. MaidMarian — on 9th January, 2009 at 12:38 pm  

      ‘Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Gaza conflict, let’s try and avoid stereotyping people because of their race or religion.’

      Come off it Rumbold! It’s all about religion. You have to make some effort to see the perspective of the aggressor in order to understand why these attacks take place. They are not doing it for kicks, it’s almost entirely to make a religious point.

      These people are not going to apply for acceptance to your personal world-view while religion is the major factor that conditions theirs.

      Side point:
      ‘Since this stereotyping doesn’t happen to white people, most people don’t really give it much thought.’

      I’m sorry, are you saying that white people can not be the victim of racist actions/thinking or that white people can not be stereotyped by non-whites?

    30. SE — on 9th January, 2009 at 1:42 pm  

      Bullshit, Katy, utter bullshit.
      People who are pro-Israel pretty much hate ALL brown people, which makes up the majority of Londoners.

      Jews aren’t a minority in the UK, atleast their political views are socially accepted

      Why do you think it’s hard to find brown actors, brown musicians and brown business men? (There are brown business men but they’re a minority same goes for the rest.)

      @Maid:
      You really must be fucking stupid to not realize that white people are a majority, Reverse racism is fucking bullshit concocted by the fucking conservatives.

    31. bananabrain — on 9th January, 2009 at 1:49 pm  

      People who are pro-Israel pretty much hate ALL brown people, which makes up the majority of Londoners.

      i can’t even begin to understand the sort of imbecile that would write something like this. clearly someone that had never seen an ethiopian, indian or middle eastern jew.

      Why do you think it’s hard to find brown actors, brown musicians and brown business men? (There are brown business men but they’re a minority same goes for the rest.)

      clearly, you don’t work in IT or world music. are you also upset that it’s hard to find white doctors and pharmacists? because that is *such* a *big* problem.

      Jews aren’t a minority in the UK

      oh, that’s right, there are 300,000 jews and 2m muslims, so we’re a “majority”. i’m amazed that you can even type.

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    32. Katy Newton — on 9th January, 2009 at 1:54 pm  

      People who are pro-Israel pretty much hate ALL brown people, which makes up the majority of Londoners.

      Blimey. There’s enough material in that one sentence for an entire psychiatric conference.

    33. On air: How is Gaza dividing world opinion? « BBC World Have Your Say — on 9th January, 2009 at 1:56 pm  

      [...] Has it made the world more dangerous? Are we now entering an era of increased attacks on Jewish sites? Or will the verbal insults and attacks on sites subside once this offensive ends? [...]

    34. Sofia — on 9th January, 2009 at 1:57 pm  

      i reckon he’s being deleted so don’t bother responding

    35. Steve M — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:05 pm  

      People who are pro-Israel pretty much hate ALL brown people, which makes up the majority of Londoners.

      Jews aren’t a minority in the UK, atleast their political views are socially accepted

      Why do you think it’s hard to find brown actors, brown musicians and brown business men? (There are brown business men but they’re a minority same goes for the rest.)

      SE, has it occurred to you that every time you open your keyboard you make yourself look like a complete idiot? The most effective thing you could do to further your own causes is to just stop posting.

    36. Katy Newton — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:07 pm  

      @Sofia: can’t help it. But am happy for my post to be deleted with it.

    37. persephone — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:11 pm  

      @ 35 ano remedial option: or have a frontal labomotomy

    38. douglas clark — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:12 pm  

      SE @ 30,

      Wow! Are you going for the Guinness Book of Records for the most errors and insults in under a hundred words?

    39. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:20 pm  

      You guys should look at #33 before posting. The eyes of the world are on you…

    40. douglas clark — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:24 pm  

      Leon,

      I know you said the readership was up, but the whole planet!

    41. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:42 pm  

      We are legion. ;)

    42. Sid — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:46 pm  

      Jewish joke about being culpable for causing the death of Jesus Christ:
      One rabbi says to the other: “What’s the big deal, we only killed him for a few days”

      heh, love that one.

    43. The Common Humanist — on 9th January, 2009 at 2:46 pm  

      Don’t delate SE - he/she is just so entertainingly stupid. It has been ages since I have witnessed such witlessness.

      Maybe a commemorative plaque?

    44. Jai — on 9th January, 2009 at 3:01 pm  

      Blimey. There’s enough material in that one sentence for an entire psychiatric conference.

      Or a 15-minute segment by Chris Rock during one of his stand-up gigs.

      Of course it would only be about 30 seconds long if you removed all the swearwords, but it would still be a work of comedy genius.

    45. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 3:17 pm  

      Don’t delate SE - he/she is just so entertainingly stupid. It has been ages since I have witnessed such witlessness.

      I’m sorry but that’s not how it works.

    46. hermes — on 9th January, 2009 at 3:22 pm  

      Leon,

      I am organising a protest in support of SE’s common right to free speech. This evening 7.30pm, Hyde Park Corner…bring your own banners!!

    47. platinum786 — on 9th January, 2009 at 3:38 pm  

      I wonder how many of the people posting on PP are working on behalf of the Israeli foreign ministry?

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

      How long can you play the victim card?

    48. chairwoman — on 9th January, 2009 at 3:50 pm  

      The same percentage as are working for Hamas’s publicity machine.

    49. Beavis — on 9th January, 2009 at 3:51 pm  

      Hope to see you on the march on Saturday, plats. I’ll be on the coaches from Nottingham.

      Be nice to see you in the flesh, i’ve told a lot of people about your views of jews and other religions.

    50. Beavis — on 9th January, 2009 at 4:44 pm  

      “Or would a coach full of Jewish people feel uncomfortable sat with a Muslim who they assume is a terrorist and/or terrorist sympathiser simply because he does not sing Hatikva.”

      Or refers to victims of the Holocaust as “Cockroaches”

    51. Sofia — on 9th January, 2009 at 4:54 pm  

      seriously…if someone is not even making an effort to hide their vitriol, why do you ppl engage?

    52. Beavis — on 9th January, 2009 at 4:57 pm  

      Because humanity should override hatred, whatever the belief, colour or tribe, we have to look after each other.

      You never know, if you can get just one person to stop the hatred and tribalism, imo its worth it.

    53. Sid — on 9th January, 2009 at 5:05 pm  

      What makes you think he is not even making an effort to hide his vitriol? He makes every effort to hide it, we only see it when he loses control and the mask slips, which is what makes him so comical and fucked up, at the same time.

    54. Beavis — on 9th January, 2009 at 5:09 pm  

      He’s toned the anti-semitism down on PDF, must be worried about his employers getting an email or something

    55. Rumbold — on 9th January, 2009 at 5:47 pm  

      MaidMarian:

      White people can of course be victims of racism. But they (or rather, we) are not stereotyped in the same way. When was the last time a white person in Coventry was asked to apologise for white person’s crimes in Norwich?

    56. Refresh — on 9th January, 2009 at 7:10 pm  

      Beavis

      Why do you persist in mentioning Derby, Nottingham and the fact that you know him, if for no other reason than threaten?

      In fact your threat is implicit in one of your posts.

      Rumbold dealt robustly with a very similar situation and deleted such comments and gave the person in question quite an earful. Can’t recall whether expletives were involved.

      Rumbold, can you please have word with Beavis. This is becoming too regular an occurence with him.

    57. Beavis — on 9th January, 2009 at 8:52 pm  

      Just pointing out the hypocrisy, refresh, no threats implied whatsoever.

    58. Refresh — on 9th January, 2009 at 9:16 pm  

      Deal with the hypocrisy - without the implied ‘we know where you live’ and the implied threats to his employment.

    59. sonia — on 9th January, 2009 at 9:18 pm  

      Can’t be bothered to comment on the rest. what a lot of racial consciousness all this I/P stuff is resulting in.

      “Since this stereotyping doesn’t happen to white people, most people don’t really give it much thought.”

      :-) Very amusing way of putting it. stereotyping doesn’t happen to white people, really? i think i have an inkling of what you’re getting at, but i wouldn’t phrase it the way you have. for most certainly there are stereotypes about ‘white people’….didn’t you know.. just like there is about any other group.

      but what i think what you are talking about is that people notice and point out differences. in an attempt to exclude/flag up difference. that’s the whole point of ‘groups’ after all, tradional cliquey groups - emphasise the similarities to feel ‘in’ and the differences to those who aren’t in. what do we think this fuss about defining britishness is about if not the same sort of thing? Some groups will say they are doing it for ‘positive’ cohesion purposes, and some will say that that cohesion comes at a cost of the exclusion. who knows.

      so, in a group, what is the commonality between the majority, doesn’t get pointed out. what is the difference, between ‘them’ and others - in a loose grouping -does. think how music sub-cultures seek to differentiate each other.

      So because here, ‘white’ people are the majority so that commonality between people, doesn’t get pointed out/thought about. Differences, in that group - do. So class for instance. chavs - stereotype about a particular ’subset’…toffs..country bumpkins, so on and so forth.

      Similarly, if you grow up in a muslim society, for example, the fact that you are muslim, doesn’t get ‘thought’ about, by the majority, within that majority. we focus on the next ‘axis’ of difference. along.

      nice isn’t it.

      so..i take it ..you haven’t you heard that much about the stereotypes about ‘goras’? I’m sure you will soon..:-) (”they” don’t wash is prob. the no.1 stereotype. of course some just think of this as Truth, not stereotypes). white men only want sex, is another stereotype one hears quite a lot (always told to one by some ‘well-meaning’ indian man with a waggle of the eyebrows. indian men not being interested of course.

      ashik can provide a few more no doubt.

    60. Leon — on 9th January, 2009 at 9:22 pm  

      The same percentage as are working for Hamas’s publicity machine.

      Amusing. I very much doubt anyone here is being paid to post stuff.

    61. MaidMarian — on 9th January, 2009 at 9:26 pm  

      ‘White people can of course be victims of racism. But they (or rather, we) are not stereotyped in the same way. When was the last time a white person in Coventry was asked to apologise for white person’s crimes in Norwich?’

      Rumbold - I see where you are coming from there. But I think that this skates a bit close to confusing race and religion. The attacks mentioned in the article are, I would suggest about religion with a racial overtone. There are, of course people who have asked me as a white person to apologise for white people’s actions in empire.

      There is also a point that the article (possibly by intent) looks at this in a rather limited way. I know several people who loathe orthodox countries, and a racial aspect in that type of situation would me much harder to draw out.

      SE (30) - ‘You really must be fucking stupid to not realize that white people are a majority, Reverse racism is fucking bullshit concocted by the fucking conservatives.’

      I suspect you are just fishing for responses there, regardless I shall deign to indulge you on this occasion.

      Do you feel better now you have got that off your chest?

    62. chairwoman — on 9th January, 2009 at 9:53 pm  

      Amusing. I very much doubt anyone here is being paid to post stuff.

      Da-Dah!

    63. Cold Beer — on 9th January, 2009 at 10:32 pm  

      I get 50p per post, but I spend it all on sticky buns.

    64. Steve M — on 9th January, 2009 at 11:29 pm  

      You’re being done. I get 75p per post here from Mossad but Hamas pay me 30p per post for anything on Harry’s Place. I spend it all on cold beer.

    65. Leon — on 10th January, 2009 at 12:03 am  

      Per post? Haha you’re getting ripped; MI5 pay me £1 per word to keep you distracted from doing any meaningful political activity! :D

    66. Steve M — on 10th January, 2009 at 1:17 am  

      The bastards. They’re paying me £5 per quote to keep tabs on you.

    67. Refresh — on 10th January, 2009 at 1:32 am  

      SteveM, Cold Beer, they are clearly wasting their money.

    68. Steve M — on 10th January, 2009 at 2:11 am  

      From you, can we take that as a compliment? :-)

    69. Refresh — on 10th January, 2009 at 2:12 am  

      Of course! :)

    70. Rumbold — on 11th January, 2009 at 2:24 pm  

      MaidMarian and Sonia:

      You are right- I didn’t explain myself clearly enough. Of course white people do face stereotyping, but from individuals, not really from the state and the media, which is what I should have said.

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