“Anything which doesn’t kill Hamas makes them stronger”
What’s tragic about all of this- apart from the 200 civillian deaths, 2,300 injuries and the humanitarian crisis- is its counter-productiveness. It isn’t just pointless, but stupid. A febrile obsession with short-termism is winning votes whilst ensuring an endless cycle of conflict, death and suffering.
Jonathan Steele puts it well in the Guardian:
…if Israel hoped to break Hamas’ hold on Gaza it has gone precisely the wrong way about it. Its leaders have done this many times before, repeatedly misreading the way Arab societies work. They believe that if they hit Gaza (or Lebanon) hard enough, the local population will blame Hamas (or Hezbollah) for bringing tragedy upon them. But it doesn’t work like that. Instead, Gazans blame Israel – and close ranks with Hamas…Israel’s best hopes lie with the so-called moderate Arab leaders. But they have been badly undermined by this exercise, and none more so than the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, whose peace talks with Israel now look like consorting with a brutal enemy.
And this is without mentioning the fresh supply of hatred Israel has stored up against itself, creating a new generation of Gazans bent on revenge. Every child who witnessed this week’s bombing is another recruit for the violence of the future.
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Filed in: Current affairs, Middle East, Terrorism
I am sorry, but I still blame hamas.
and honestly I have to say I get a bit disturbed by the chants of “free free palistine” .
if anything has led to a fresh supply of hatred Israel has stored up against itself … it’s these world wide protests supporting hamas.
There was tremendous work being done in the west bank …
hamas knows this, it is why they took over Gaza ..they don’t want “peace” … they even want to destroy that progress.
Over the years there has been countless international attempts to start a foundation for a Palestinian state in gaza … all are nothing but ruins now ….not cause Israel’s actions but because Hamas refuses to stop fighting and start actually building something.
If all this is strengthening hamas who is to blame for that? I say the balme lies in the people sitting on the side lines cheering for sides like this is some football game. Where were the stop hamas rallies over the last few years?
anyway I wouldn’t be so quick to judge the outcome of Israels attack…. as they are now reporting hamas leaders are begging to talk with egypt.
“Opinions” are running wild in the world … I am starting to wish people would just shut up and let our leaders do their job.
Much of the analysis, particularly in the “oppositional” media focuses on the supposed stupidity of the Israelis – yet following the same logic, how “stupid” of Hamas was it to continue to launch missiles against Israel and unilaterally declare an end to the ceasefire?
Not very stupid of the Israelis if you consider their mind-set: 2000 years of persecution, culminating in the murder of at least 6 million, and three attempts by Arab states to destroy their fledgling nation in the past 50 years. In this context, passive resistance signally failed. Smiting however, seemed to do the trick.
Not very stupid of Hamas if you consider its very existence is down to an unwillingness to compromise with Israel. Hamas would not be Hamas if it was not at war with Israel. Peace would mean de-facto failure, according to its constitution, and a party calibrated on war would have to win the peace without the support, presumably, of its Iranian and Syrian paymasters.
So neither side is acting particularly stupidly. What do the Israelis care for the opprobrium of an Arab world that has regularly tried to wipe them off the map? A West that almost succeeded? Equally every picture of another dead Palestinian child is a victory for the Islamists.
There will be no peace in the region until the historic persecutors of both sides – the Muslim world and the West – oblige them to make peace. Some countries like Egypt see this, but while it suits Iran and Syria there will be no peace. And the West is too afraid of the monster it created to impose a meaningful settlement.
I would suggest that all we ordinary folk can do is try to see the full picture. Allowing our prejudices to shape our perceptions only fuels the misery I am afraid.
I want to know where the “200 civilian deaths” comes from. Houses, schools, hospitals, a university and police stations bombed – and I’m expected to believe a full 300 of the more than 500 dead are Hamas militants considered lawful combatants? Those Israeli bombs must be really well targeted to have killed more militants than civilians.
I’d like to see a source for this figure please.
The BBC tries to do the math.
Let’s not underestimate the true extent of civilian deaths for the sake of approaching some kind of balance – because it is clear in this conflict there is no balance. Regardless of the counter-productive nature of Israel’s actions, the cost in lives is enough to condemn them for.
I want to know where the “200 civilian deaths” comes from.
Me too. I heard estimates of 25% which would be 125.
here is my source for the figures http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/05/israel-palestine-gaza-attacks1
there are also details there of the scale of the humanitarian crisis…
This is why the death toll from fighting is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be many more deaths due to lack of food, medical assistance, medicines and hospitals running out of fuel.
I certainly take the point about short-termism, but one could say that about most conflicts.
That being said, I don’t really buy this. The article skates rather close to the lazy thinking which holds that Hamas is an underdog and therefore bathes in truth and light.
‘And this is without mentioning the fresh supply of hatred Israel has stored up against itself, creating a new generation of Gazans bent on revenge.’
What exactly is meant by this fresh supply – is there evidence that somehow Hamas and Gazan opinion towards Israel was mellowing? This is entrenched, the idea that somehow the latest conflict will lead to a qualitatively different mindset in Gaza seems rather far-fetched.
Hamas has massively overestimated its own strength and importance and its own hate shone through. It is reaping the whirlwind – I leave it to the citizens of Gaza to dwell on how far Hamas’ judgment has placed them in harm’s way.
A mate of mine who has been following this conflict summed it up in rather stark, statistical terms. She said many Israelis genuinely seem to believe that if they kill enough militant Palestinian men then that will resolve things. But she also noted that if the Gaza Strip’s population is 1.4 million that would amount to roughly 300,000 Palestinian men of military age. (I assume by that she’s talking about able bodied guys aged 17 to 45, or something like that)
So in cold, brutal terms, leaving aside ALL moral considerations, Israel would quite literally have to kill virtually all of these 300,000 guys to achieve a final solution in Gaza. And that’s not even taking into account the fact that Gaza’s women would probably take up arms en mass if it looked like every single one of their men was going to be killed.
How many ‘military aged’ Palestinian men has Israel killed in the last 10 days? Something like 400 I guess. 400 out of 350,000.
I told my friend I wasn’t really sure where she was going with her slightly weird musings, as even I can’t see Israel doing a Genghis Khan. And she said “exactly”, meaning that this whole thing is just going to drag on and on into the distant future. She said we’ll still be blogging about it when we’re pensioners.
Jonathan Steeles understanding of Arab Society is peerless, his judgement legendary.
“In backing the Basra assault, the US has only helped Sadr”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/04/usa.iraq
7 – According to the most recent poll support for Hamas is down to 28%.
The Arab Governments and much of Fatah want.
1.Hamas capability destroyed.
2Israel/Syria peace talks to progress
3.The Saudi Peace plan resurrected
2&3 are more likely if 1 is achieved.
An incoming Obama Govt and an internationally monitored ceasefire make them even more likely.
And what’s the betting, Tim, that Hamas are on slightly more than 28% support now?
11 – Far too soon to tell yet what the impact will be.
Can’t see many Fatah supporters suddenly preferring a Hamas Government.
It’s at times like this I wish more Israeli citizens would watch excellent films like Munich and pay close attention to the point the Mossad agent makes at the end…
lol@comment 1
PLO yesterday, Hamas today…who’s it gonna be tomorrow…israeli leaders (please read state sponsored terrorists) kill Palestinians with impunity…they use excuses like hamas to target densely populated areas knowing full well how this will impact on innocent men women and children..but of course they’re all harbouring hamas ‘militants’…or part of hamas themselves…even the little babies that are being murdered…they’re all fuckng hamas aren’t they
Earlier this evening, I had to try to explain to my older son why a man on the news was crying, and why his boys (the same age as mine) were lying very still on a blanket in a hospital…
And then we watched as assorted “leaders” on both sides spoke about the justification of their actions, of how they had been forced to do these things, how they would not cease until justice/revenge/what they deemed to be ’sufficient destruction of the other side’ had been achieved.
And I wept and raged and hated those bastards. The bastards spouting their deceitful lines – “there is no humanitarian crisis”, “the Palestinians were told to move out of these areas” (oh yeah, and go where, exactly? and with what water, food, shelter? and with small kids? ‘Smug, sitting comfortably behind the lines in your expensive suit Israeli fucker’), and then from the other side “they have made legitimate targets of their hospitals, their ambulances, their children” (what?? you fucking Hamas shithead!! Taking advantage of,[and bearing much responsibility for] your own people’s misery, people for whom you’re supposed to be acting as a responsible government, and all you want is to bring down more death and destruction on everyone in the name of your fucking invisible friend. Bastards!)
I tried to tell my son that there is no easy solution, it’s very complicated, that the hatred has run too deep, for too long, and serves too many people’s purposes…but that’s no answer to a small boy who simply replies “But when are they going to stop killing the children? It’s not fair, it wasn’t their fault..”
Bastards.
(apologies, I don’t usually swear/do the emotional rant thing, but sometimes…)
Article is spot on.
and honestly I have to say I get a bit disturbed by the chants of “free free palistine”
What’s so disturbing about a free palestine?
Boyo: Not very stupid of Hamas if you consider its very existence is down to an unwillingness to compromise with Israel. Hamas would not be Hamas if it was not at war with Israel.
It’s great that you recognise this. Now if you exercise your brain a bit further, and take the logic further, then you’ll realise a call for peace actually undermines Hamas rather than defends it.
MaidMarian: The article skates rather close to the lazy thinking which holds that Hamas is an underdog and therefore bathes in truth and light.
Lazy thinking in what way? How about the times Israel tried the same with Fatah? You think that worked. Now, suddenly, bloggers are calling out for Fatah rule and praising them. People be losing their damn minds.
if anything has led to a fresh supply of hatred Israel has stored up against itself … it’s these world wide protests supporting hamas.
This world wide protest were againgst the Israeili unslaught on the Palestinian people and end to the Gaza seige/occupation
One Israili Official spokesperson in her justification of deaths of women and children let her cover down, when she said, I qote ‘palestinian mother’s raise their children to be Jihadis. Meaning kill the future resistant fighters in their womb.
As for what,the invasion of the Gaza will acheive by the Israilis will be the opposite. The Palestinian resistant will grow stronger, there would be more hatered, no forgiveness, no tolerence, and bloody more unnessary deaths. The palestinian peoples will not be bombed into submssion, they are like the pheniox, after every massacre they will rise again to haunt the Occupiers. Let the dust settle before anybody responds.
The situation of 500 deaths in 10 days including many children, and 3000 hospitalised without sufficient medical supplies because of Israel’s blockade of the last two years, is horrific enough in it’s own terms and doesn’t need exaggerating.
Sunny (15) – Thank you.
‘Lazy thinking in what way? How about the times Israel tried the same with Fatah? You think that worked.’
– Lazy thinking in the way that associates any questioning of the Hamas line with revelling in 500+ deaths. Lazy in the way that abrogates Hamas of any responsibility to find a solution in good faith.
Lazy thinking that puts words like, ‘worked,’ into the mouths of people who clearly do not think anything worked, for that matter. You are normally above that sort of thing Sunny.
‘Now, suddenly, bloggers are calling out for Fatah rule and praising them.’
– Speak for yourself, I’m not!
People be losing their damn minds.
– No. This is not about losing minds, it is that many are now staring an irreconcilable problem flush in the face. Not a comforting thought for an internet chatterati that struggles with anything not expressed in absolutes.
I thought your CiF article got a good response, incidentally.
I see the point now. Israel was wrong. Maybe Israel should have launched rockets and morters into gaza without caring where they hit like hammas did. Great idea !
Amazing how people tike the side of homicide bombers and those that would put bomb belts on their own children.
I never understood this ‘homicide bomber’ subversion. Aren’t all bombers homicidal? Then again, it was invented by Bush.
Ala , No, it was started by the vermin scum that put bomb belts on themselves. Maybe you have seen their devastation in the UK, Israel, Chechnya, Philippines, USA etc…. Of course not all Muslim terrorists use bomb belts. Others in the Sudan (Arab Muslims) love too chop, hack, murder, rape and pillage and make slaves of Black Muslims in the Sudan.
Have you heard about that ? Or do you care?
Ala , do you agree with hammas ?
Yes or no ?
WHAT IS THE ANSWER ?
Jeff, your attempt at conflation and thread-derailing is pathetic.
From the following link:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/5/report_from_gaza_city_palestinian_journalist
There is a transcript from a Palestinian reporter (note part I have put in bold). Make of it what you will:
AMY GOODMAN: We go now to Gaza City to Sameh Habeeb, a Palestinian journalist there blogging at gazatoday.blogspot.com. Describe the situation right now, Sameh.
SAMEH HABEEB: Hello, Amy. In fact, I’m not from the Gaza Strip; I’m from the occupied Gaza Strip now. Well, the situation is very direful since the Israelis started their military ground operation. The situation has dramatically changed. We have like a kind of fear and panic across the residents of the Gaza Strip with the start of the military operation. The number of the victims dramatically rise, especially the civilians. Around yesterday—today’s statistic, around ninety people died and killed, mostly civilians, since the start of this military ground operation less than forty hours ago.
The Israelis maybe have information about the Israeli military operation and how it has started. It has started from key—four key points across the Gaza Strip, in the north and in east of Gaza and the south of Gaza. Now, Gaza yesterday was being cut into two pieces. The north of Gaza and Gaza City are being cut from the south and the middle areas of the Gaza Strip. No one is allowed to go out or in. And this is regarding the military steps of the Israelis.
In the area where I live, in the east of Gaza, the artillery shelling is still taking place. And a few minutes ago, around three shells landed in my area. And one guy was killed and two were injured in hitting two houses. And this was one family.
Now, we are speaking about the Israeli military operation and its escalation, which aimed at ending the firing the rockets and ending the Hamas regime here. But what we have on the ground, what we are touching here, is that like there is a random targeting for the civilians, and most of the victims who fall, who fell since the military operation has started, they are mostly civilians. And the militants that Israel is seeking, they are being hidden, not being appeared in the streets at all.
Today, in the early morning, there was a massacre in which around twenty to twenty-five people were killed from the same family in Al-Zeitoun area. Most of them were children. Israeli Army gathered around ten families in one of the houses for Al-Samouni family in Al-Zeitoun area south of Gaza City. They had gathered them in one house. And after a time, an artillery shell hit the house, and twenty to twenty-five were killed, and around more than sixty were injured, because the house was including around 100 individuals.
This is not the only massacre today. We have more people are being killed in the north, and more people are being killed in Gaza City itself. If you would like me to just state what we have today, I have a list of around thirty-two violations and ramifications of today’s actions. Israeli Air Force bombarded houses in Al-Shati refugee camp, and thirty-five people were wounded. And maybe more will be just dying, because the hospitals are not able to respond to the calamities we have, the catastrophes, because the Israeli siege, which was imposed around two years ago, completely paralyzed the ability of the clinics and hospitals to respond to any military operation or a war in such a scale like this.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined in Washington, D.C. by Samer Badawi, the executive director of United Palestinian Appeal, a Washington-based charity established in 1978 to assist needy Palestinians. Samer Badawi, as you listen to this description, how are people here, Palestinians and non-Palestinians, responding to the crisis in Gaza?
SAMER BADAWI: Well, I think, as Phyllis said earlier, there’s been a tremendous groundswell of grassroots support for the people of Gaza over the last week. But more than that, I think as an organization that receives 99 percent of its donations from individuals across this country, we’ve seen a virtual cavalcade of support financially as well, because people understand that although goods and supplies are few and far between entering Gaza, there is a way to raise cash here in this country and provide it for organizations on the ground that are doing whatever they can, however they can, to provide relief.
AMY GOODMAN: And the effect in the United States of the shutting down of many Arab charities, has that affected you?
SAMER BADAWI: It’s very interesting, actually, Amy, because I think that more and more people in this country are viewing charity as a bit of an act of defiance in an atmosphere like the one that we’re viewing today. People across the country are wondering about how the context of all of this has been left out so egregiously in the media and in the statements of Israeli officials. And, as we have seen from the Holy Land Foundation case, there has not been a convincing argument made that by simply supporting the humanitarian needs of the Palestinian people, we are somehow creating—or committing a crime here in this country. I think UPA supporters are committed to the idea that providing financial support to the Palestinian people is not a crime, that it’s something that must be done, as it is done for suffering people throughout the world, including in Darfur, as it was done in Bosnia, as it’s been done around the world.
Random Guy , do you agree with hammas? Yes or no ?
When you have the basketballs for the answer, let me know. It is a yes or no question.
Jeff
No it isn’t, you haven’t even defined what you mean by “agree”. What are we supposed to “agree” or “disagree” with Hamas on? A single view, their policies or their broad outlook?
If you mean, do you support Hamas then, well, I don’t think that’s true of anyone on this thread. But that’s not relevant to the topic at hand, ie. “As well as being murderous, are Israel’s actions going to increase support for Hamas”.
Ben
Jeff,
My question to you: Which would you prefer to silence Gaza, mustard gas or phosphorous bombs?
A yes and no question.
As well as being murderous, are Hamas’ actions going to increase support for Hamas?
Jeff,
There has been a fairly long running conversation going on here – over quite a number of threads now – and as far as I remember very few, if any, commentators have come out and said they agree exclusively with Hamas. What a lot of people have said, myself included, is that this is no way to resolve a situation, and that the victims are the people of Gaza, and that, quite possibly, the Israelis will end up regretting it.
That seems to me to be a fair enough analysis.
So, why the aggression?
It’s an easy question. Try answering it.
On the other hand I don’t see why anybody should be forced to answer your question, which is simply designed to split folk into ‘us’ and ‘them’ camps for reasons that are opaque to me. Most folk on here can actually do complicated without their heads exploding.
SteveM, I was looking to see where best I could engage you on your statistics vis-a-vis rockets which you deemed as the cause of the Israeli attack on Gaza.
Could you have a look at my contribution on ‘Propaganda war from Gaza’ thread?
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2624
I believe you only told half a story.
.
Jeff – I’ll keep it brief:
Do you think killing innocent Palestinians is a justified electioneering tactic by the Israeli government?
In the UK we go canvassing and show PEBs to get votes.
In Israel they kill Palestinians.
Refresh, I have looked through that thread as you have suggested. I suppose the relevant point that you made is below (although if I’ve missed something please let me know):
Israel presumes its future is based on removing all hope from the surviving Palestinians. Its their established ethos, as outlined by Ben Gurion et al.
I simply disagree with this. Most Israelis believe that the Palestinians could have a future of their own making, as hopeful or despairing as they make it, if they’d only accept that Israel is there to stay.
Incidentally, your use of the term ’surviving Palestinians’ is interesting. You are of course aware that the Palestinian population has increased year on year since 1948.
SteveM, my specific point to you was that your figures on numbers of rocket fired do not give the details of numbers fired during the ceasefire which are clearly most relevant to the argument.
Erm, Jeff is from Mosquewatch,.. is anyone expecting a serious discussion with this racist, paranoid nutbag??
MaidMarian: Lazy thinking in the way that associates any questioning of the Hamas line with revelling in 500+ deaths. Lazy in the way that abrogates Hamas of any responsibility to find a solution in good faith.
Not sure how anyone is doing that. I don;t agree with Hamas at all. but I can see how this attack will increase support.
Its a bit like… if you attack Iraq and kill 100 or 1000s of people, its obvious you will create more suicide bombers, regardless of the fact they’re stupid morons. You can’t wish away suicide bombers by condemning them… however you can minimise stupid actions that create more of them.
Lazy thinking that puts words like, ‘worked,’ into the mouths of people who clearly do not think anything worked, for that matter. You are normally above that sort of thing Sunny.
It was a question, rather than putting words in your mouth.
Yeah, the article got a nice response.. though I don’t worry too much about the response from CIF commenters… I get interesting email and facebook messages after, which are better.
SteveM,
My apologies I picked up the wrong link – try this one:
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2626
What’s so disturbing about a free palestine?
I am glad you asked instead of getting upset, so thank you …
I am all for a free Palestine, with all my heart I hope for it, for them!
I love these people!
http://tinyurl.com/44p92l
I just can’t see how the slogan is appropriate for this?
1.If Hamas is now the official spokesman for Palestine and its people … maybe it can’t be “free”.
2. It’s not “Palestine” is it? It’s the gaza strip …
it is Hamas which has seized and occupied it, and if anything the people of gaza are victims of them!
When have they ever! ever! asked for peace? If you can find it please show me. No Country is at war with Israel. They are all at peace already!
Hamas wants them to start a war …
http://tinyurl.com/yvk7t7
but I can see how this attack will increase support……
however you can minimise stupid actions that create more of them.
…. I do understand what you are saying and under normal circumstance would agree …. but in this case I am listing the protests against Israel, with its free free Palestine slogan … in with the stupid actions which only increase support.
I will agree with you too a call for peace actually undermines Hamas rather than defends it. But who is encouraging them to fight? No one!
I wish there was another way … but what would it be?
I always wondered why no one has tried to invent happy weapons? Like laughing gas bombs, or something to just make people chill out for a while … I don’t know why killing is always the only answer we can come up with.
Israel has problems too …
http://www.economist.com/world/mideast-africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12436112
is it governments? or people that cause them?
The Palestinian people have been collectively punished ( starved, bombed etc) for nothing more than exercising their democratic right and voting for Hamas. Like them or not, HAMAS have a mandate and the support of a majority of those on the GAZA STRIP, even now, with the bombs dropping ! Fatah in the meanwhile, gets the ground on which it stands undercut at every turn by those too lazy, or gutless to stop the killing and talk to people they don’t like. When are people like Maid Marian and Tony Blair going to learn that like Israel, HAMAS are not going to go away.
I don’t believe in the two state solution is viable for anybody. The way the Jewish state of Israel came about was wrong while Palestinians couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. These two people need each other in a secular, democratic state of unity. I know this to be true more than ever.
Another 2 links, for the sake of historical context:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11606
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=HAS20050813&articleId=829
Well, no. But I wanted to know whether he was talking about Hamas or hummus. With such a keen eye for all things Arabic, both must be equally suspicious.
@ 40 Well houmous can be fattening. Will muslims now be blaimed for the increasing levels of obesity along with the usual:
Come over here, bring their pungent food (which we delight in eating but lets not mention that), take our jobs & women etc…
Outside cheesy song lyrics and superhero comics, non-fatal injuries are in fact very unlikely to increase the amount you can benchpress.
‘whatever does not kill you makes you stronger’ is meaningless propaganda guff, and if you ever find yourself repeating something like that as if were not obvious nonsense, then you know someone did a good job on bullshitting you. Might be worth asking yourself who and why.
The real problem is that, while a stronger hamas would not be good, a weaker but meaner Hamas doesn’t particularly solve any problems for Israel, and those in the region who would like to live in peace with it.
The military strength required to bomb a restaurant and issue a press release is minimal: some individuals have done it. Casualties in one such incident could easily be above several years of untargeted attacks.
You know, guys, this is one of the biggest problems with modern warfare and indeed this type of combat in general; unless you have armies fighting each other on open battlefields, with no civilians in the immediate vicinity, it just involves variations on guerilla warfare or the modern equivalent of siege tactics (if you think about it, in some ways there isn’t much difference between lobbing projectiles via trebuchets/catapults into fortified cities and, as is happening in the present scenario, both parties firing rockets into dense urban areas containing civilian populations).
Victory wasn’t necessarily guaranteed in some of the older forms of combat, and armies openly facing each other was definitely an incredibly dangerous way to fight, but there is a lot to be said for such chivalrous (dare I say “more honourable”) modes of warfare. Short of challenging enemy armies to come out from wherever they may be hiding or located and face you in direct, open combat in a pre-arranged location, so-called “modern” ways of fighting mean that civilian casualties are a depressingly predictable eventuality.
Not that attacking civilian populations to force the opposing military/political forces to capitulate or to kill the latter if they are in the midst of civilians is a new tactic, of course; it’s been used by numerous aggressive groups throughout history, and many of them were unapologetic and entirely unashamed about using this approach if it enabled them to achieve victory.
Unless both Hamas and the IDF radically altered their approach to warfare and their associated “codes of conduct”, I don’t see how either side could avoid injuring civilians if they were intent on using violence to achieve their goals.
I thoroughly agree…modern warfare is totally indiscriminate…but it’s not just this ‘war’ that uses it so it shouldn’t just be about these two sides but every one…there’s some attraction in being a modern day pacifist
Refresh,
My apologies I picked up the wrong link – try this one:
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2626
Yes, I see now. No, I don’t agree with your interpretation of the dates or the breaking of the ceasefire.
Seems like I’ve read something very similar on the GlobalResearch web site, which is hardly a beacon of neutrality is it?
SteveM
‘Seems like I’ve read something very similar on the GlobalResearch web site, which is hardly a beacon of neutrality is it?’
Actually the figures were from the original source, Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
The interpretation is mine. If you have an alternative to offer which fits the dates and the details then please let us know.
“Hardly a beacon of neutrality”
If the article is laying out the facts, it should not matter where the inclination of the site lies. It is simply reporting details which would not be published elsewhere (sorry, this has nothing to do with Refresh’s links, rather a general point).
You can’t name one major news agency which is a beacon of neutrality today, especially when the proportion of media output is taken into account according to the nation-state orientation that the parent media group belongs to.