-Corey

http://shafiur.i-edit.net/?p=37

i’m sorry my opinions are inconvenient. (and male, too) i wasn’t saying whether the expectation that provoked such outrage was a fair expectation. it probably isn’t. but then being jewish isn’t especially fair. nonetheless, we continue our religious obligation to hold ourselves to exacting standards of morality, whatever some of our detractors – and indeed some of our own people may choose to think.

b’shalom

bananabrain

but I’m afraid that for the most part, with some exceptions, the people I have argued strike me as being quite ignorant and unsophisitcated (I can say less about their intelligence of course)

Shaul in post 150:

Bananabrain: Fuck off you stinking cunt.

Hmmmm….unsophisticated, eh?

I believe that Bananabrain is Jewish herself — having read many of her posts in recent times, I’m pretty sure her comment wasn’t intended maliciously.

Bananabrain: Fuck off you stinking cunt.

Yes it is. That’s the point. It’s as ignorant as assuming that any pro-Israel person is a Jew, or worse, “just hates Arabs”. That’s how “all this” started. Check the tapes, if you are really so shocked. I’m afraid you phony liberals are quite slow. Seriously now, I’m done. Despite what has been thrown my way, I have tried to avoid overgeneralizations and insults (except in the name of parody or irony) but I’m afraid that for the most part, with some exceptions, the people I have argued strike me as being quite ignorant and unsophisitcated (I can say less about their intelligence of course).

a hooker shall do.

Given that he comes across, frankly, as the drunken ranting madman on the street who others steps clear of and never address directly, I think the rest of “us” have been valiantly patient and considerate of Shaul.

OTH Soul brother Sunny has the patience of a Sikh saint.

if you want to “make friends and influence people”, you are failing miserably. dialogue must be based upon a foundation of shared experience and mutual understanding – *not* diatribes of victimisation and self-justification. we all know that everywhere in the middle east apart from israel (apart from iraq and, now, the PA and stirrings in egypt, kuwait and jordan) is to greater or lesser degrees a one-party dictatorship without a free press, free speech or civil liberties, where minorities such as christians suffer terrible repression and jews are barely tolerated, if they are allowed to live at all.

BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT.

the point is that jews are expected – for whatever reason – to behave better than their neighbours. whether this is because of our own chauvinism or the anti-semitism of others, i really neither know nor care. nonetheless, we remain accountable to OURSELVES and to the Holy Blessed One. we are in breach of our duty as jews, both theologically and halachically if we are less than honourable, fair, humane and moral. regardless of what the lunatics may think, say, or accuse, we know what the right thing to do is. we have started to do it. israel is far from an entirely fair and equitable society – no society is. nonetheless, through democratic means, free speech and an independent judiciary, they have begun the work of building a better world. what they must not do is rest on their laurels. what we as jews can do to help is to get out there and get to know others, not sit behind our walls and complain. dialogue is not an end, but it is a means to that. and successful dialogue is about BUILDING AND INVESTING IN RELATIONSHIPS, not about winning some war of words in the endless round of accusation and counter-accusation.

in short, stop calling sunny an anti-semite. as far as i can tell, he isn’t. he has some questions and you’re not answering them. you’re attempting to tell him he’s wicked to ask them – and he isn’t.

and the rest of you – it would help everybody if there was a bit less rhetoric and a bit more consideration; think before you post. i know i’m not a moderator here, but i have some experience in this area and if this was taking place on *my* bulletin board, i’d have moderated the feck out of the lot of yis.

let’s wrap this up and move on.

b’shalom

bananabrain

Shaul’s (security) blanket idea is that anyone who critiques Zionism is anti-Semitic first and Muslim second. And since Sunny is Asian, he must be Muslim. In He hasn’t explicitly called Sunny antisemitic (yet) but he has certainly implied it.

As I understand it Sunny is an atheist from a Sikh background. So the comment about the imam is really stupid and flows with the ignorance that says all Asians are Muslims.

(Everyone is so uptight around here. I think it’s Sunny’s influence.)

Jay, where were you when someone asked me to “consult my rabbi”?

My comment was an ironic reference to that particular comment. But it was a long time ago and there was no reason for you to have caught it. I am sorry to have confused you.

I have no idea what Sunny is except a creep who claims to enjoy “thinking outside the box’” and other similar forms of adolescent self aggrandizement.

Cheers

I have not called you anything similar, insulted your level of education, asked you to consult you imam, etc

Shaul, why do you make a reference to Sunny ‘consulting his imam’? Sunny is not a Muslim. Surely you are not that ignorant, are you?

Shaul, say it isnt so, say you arent one of those people that has a wart in their head that speaks to them:

“They are all a bunch of Pakis they are all the same!”

Say it isnt so Shaul!

It’s very intersting Sunny. You assume me to be racist and cry bigot, although I have said absolutely nothing anti-anyone. I have not called you anything similar, insulted your level of education, asked you to consult you imam, etc. yet I’m accused of hysterically playing the victim. Because you thinkk it’s silly to play the vicitm. That’s why none of the stories you link to are about instances of Arab racism in Britain and elsewhere.

I see a pattern here!