“2000 years ago, my culture was discussing maintenance payments in the case of divorce, while western europeans were painting themselves blue and burning people in wicker baskets.”

i don’t have to use it that often, but it’s usually quite satisfying.

b’shalom

bananabrain

Do you think that is right? Helpful? Progressive?

I certainly do not like it nor do I find it useful to be caged as a “minority”, because there is certainly an implicit “oppression” and self-defeatist feel attached to it. Is it progressive? I get the feeling it was most likely coined by progressives, in order to flag inequality. However, I believe that such terms are temporary, and will become obsolete in a few generations.

Do you think that is right? Helpful? Progressive?

Now that’s a great thought! I wonder whether there are Americans who think along the same lines but who see Obama as ‘different’ because he does not indulge identity politics and is not mediocre.

That was precisely my point.

When it comes to minorities there is a real sense of tokenism that has built up – rightly or wrongly. That greater BME numbers in government (as opposed to politics) is an intrinsic good regardless of the quality.

Totally agree.

I would like to class Liverpool as ‘minority ethnic’, just to see how it is perceived. So then we could get beyond race.

However, how many people would take notice? Overall, maybe a few, but would it matter? To be honest, I think it is an academic question more than a practical one.

I challenge someone to argue that the two examples you gave don’t prove we have already had an ethnic prime minister.

Nobody can argue with that if one takes the definition of ethnic minority literally (and the one-drop rule). But the reality is that there is a difference between what we perceive to be of a different ethnicity and its definition.

These days, light-skinned southern Europeans and Jews are considered whites and nobody thinks of them as an ethnic minority. Furthermore, if you are mixed race, but you look white, then you are white (e.g. Cliff Richards). But if the same mix results in someone resembling someone of a dark-skinned race (blacks, south Asians), then that becomes an issue. Race after all is truly superficial. While we marvel at Obama’s achievement for getting into the White House despite being different from all other Presidents, it is worth knowing that he shares the same ancestors as Cheney, and his ancestors trace back to Ireland, which is pretty unremarkable for many whites who reached the Presidency. But we focus entirely on the black part, because he is dark-skinned. In Canada, South Asians, blacks and East Asians are called visible minorities. And that’s pretty much what we mean by ethnic minorities these days.

Seriously. I really don’t know.

Douglas:

I was hoping you would notice that. And I think that it was mostly Picts then.

Anyway, notwithstanding that, if someone of the calibre of Shami Chakrabarti stood in my constituency, I’d vote across party lines to help get her elected.

Point taken. However do I detect some are developing an accent that is unique and is ‘asian’, but perhaps they are not the ‘educated’ ones. Or perhaps its my ears?

…..in what will eventually become an instantly recognisable baritone voice, thinking “Heh heh, if only they knew…..”

I didn’t know Sonia had a baritone. She has been quiet for a few weeks – she is plotting something – I just know it. Please tell me its true that Sonia has a husky voice.

Actually I think the first ‘Asian’ as PM will be a woman, not a man. Just a hunch – based on the large number of female ‘Asian’ newsreaders etc who have conditioned the minds of the general white population to be comfortable with the sound and association. I’m afraid the male ‘asian’ voice is still associated with doctors with accents.

Although senior Indian military officers do sound as good as their Pakistani counterparts … the Manekshaw generation have already gone on. Have you heard him speak. He was a very very good raconteur. (Jai – If you catch a few of his speeches on the web you might catch the one where he has a joke at the expense of Sikhs – take it in the spirit it was meant – he had a great love of Sikhs. He was Amritsar born and in a Sikh regiment before joining the Gurkhas. His use of the term ‘native’ troops would also jar in these pc times.)

Billy – no hope for 1st generation ‘asians’? I see you are taking a long view but your point is taken.

justforfun

Oi!

…Septimius Severus, who moved the imperial capital to York for the last years of his life in order to battle the barbarians north of Hadrian’s Wall.

You obviously meant the anti-imperialist freedom fighters of North Britain!

A pronounced or bizzare accent will not be a vote winner

A future black or asian PM will arise from the generations born and raised in Britain. Accent will not be an issue. They will be British to the tips of their toes.

I challenge someone to argue that the two examples you gave don’t prove we have already had an ethnic prime minister.

Stop treading on egg shells Rumbold. Say what you see, mean what you say.

Race is not the issue it was in America. Yes we had racism, but we did not have apartheid, America, pretty much had that in the 60′s, whether they accept it or not.

Also personality politics matters a lot less here in the UK, Obama had a wow factor we all bought, worldwide he was stunning audiences. People voted for him, because they knew that once in he had real power.

In the UK, the power of the PM is not as much, we don’t have a PM veto power do we? The individual is much less likely to matter. The party matters, the local MP matters. Muslim people in Derby hated Labour for it’s policy towards Iraq, Afghanistan, but Margret Beckett has been good for Derby, the Tories have had the same policies and are a dead party in Derby, why vote for them? We have a lib Dem council, they’re bigger flops than Labour, and I voted Lib Dem, never making that mistake again.

Say labour wanted the Obama factor and the Obama style win, assume they had a young Muslim man standing for PM, to get that win, you’d need radical fresh policies supported by facts and figures, you’d need a massive national campaign, you’d need a swathe of fresh faces, a lot of mini Obama’s standing as MP’s, then you could get that kind of win.

Obama didn’t win “coz e iz black”, he won because of an astounding political campaign, good policies, a good connection to the people, and a huge huge movement by his supporters.

The challenge in britain would not be the public, but rather getting a Muslim man to be put forward by a political party as their nominee for PM.