dorinda..yep, i think it is going to become even more of a topic, everywhere in london there are ‘mixed up’ couples..

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/carol_midgley/article4471880.ece

b’shalom

bananabrain

Just throwing it out there…

Dalbir, you’re comparing one set of sexist men with another and then asking me why I condemn the actions of one and not the others.

Anyway, women are not the property of men – so why just mention daughters adopting crass behaviour? Either its done to both sexes, or not at all.

Lastly, Punjabi men may not be as bad as village Afghani men in most circumstances, but that’s hardly an endorsement is it? I was talking about dominant male groups in the UK.

#95 I think this happens more often than is being suggested. But have you not seen patriarchal setups where the daughter is the spoilt princess? I’m not trying to justify patriarchalism, but merely saying this isn’t always a horrendous experience for girls. Besides people are mixing up conservatism with oppression. I’ve met umpteen families of all races such as Catholic Irish, Africans, Greeks who have this conservative thing going on with their daughters. Why is no one pulling them up for their oppressive sexism?

#96 Well at least we have debunked the myth that this is all the fault of men. No offence but sometimes, judging by some feminist posts, I sort of get the impression that they perceive women as helpless potential victims of male dominance. Like the Sikh women of Sathnam’s world, these feminists too are stuck in a cycle of constant battle against beastly men. They too, brutalised by their cognitions, flare up at any perceived male threat, whether it actually exists or not. Women, do have choices. It makes me sad to see women who sometimes have been treated rather shabbily by say in laws, turn around and revel in the doing the same thing years later. Surely this is plain bananas? Some simple reflection and tactful conversation between womenfolk is desperately required. Less of the male scapegoating please. It is really lame.

“I was just trying to highlight the fact that it is incorrect to assume all Panjabi families are patriarchal setups that oppress females. Often young women in such setups actually get better treatment than they would in a matriarchal one ”

Er…right…

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a household where there wasn’t patriarchy nor matriarchy, but equal, and that kids internalized this.

“The way it looks to me is that many white men see the pretty ethnic women as eroticised creatures they must “save””

You don’t think that some ‘ethnic men’ think, “We have to save our women from white guys”? And looking at women as possessions, isn’t this wrong?

“What do you think we are trying to herd you like cows?”

Maybe not, but you sure are branding women as ‘pretty ethnic women’ as you would to cows!

“Desi, i’m glad you said that. Because I often feel i ought to be more patient and understanding ( and feel grateful I am allowed to live my life most of the time!) but i fail miserably. I always feel very defensive!”

Dude, who wouldn’t get defensive? It’s only human nature, I think.

Why don’t you cleverly tell everyone off, without making it seem like you are telling them off? Like, when someone remarks about your husband, pretend you didn’t hear, and kindly ask about the crisis of rice these days and how much it sucks. Or when people say something about religion, remark how lovely it is to see the sun in Bangladesh, in contrast to London which is always gloomy.

“but when it got to 7 year old boys preaching at me about how its good to ‘convert other people’ , and how bad and smelly Hindus are, I was really fed up.”

To be honest, some of the Hindu sadhus ARE often grimy

“It’s actually come up already with children’s names – not that i ever said i wanted to have kids, in fact my family know this – but one of the first things they said once they’d heard about tom – was, oh any kids better have a muslim first name!”

Are you being serious. Doesn’t it make you angry that someone– even if it’s family– feels like they have the right to impose their preferences on how you run your life?

You could come to a comprise and pick a name that is pretty flexible but is still Muslim. Like Kabir. I know a Sikh who has that name, as well as a Hindu (Kabir, if I’m not mistaken, is a Muslim name; if I’m wrong, someone can correct me).

“I feel the need to talk more about it – better go dust off my blog .”

Go do it; I’ll totally read it.

You can go where you want. I don’t care. What do you think we are trying to herd you like cows?

Anyway I don’t subscribe to that skin colour marriageability thing (I know I spelt that wrong.)

Plus you still haven’t unpacked my previous post. I’m not doing the fetishising. I just think it may be going on. A remnant of colonial timess perhaps?

Sure I have. But some men also have a competitive streak amongst themselves.

[...]

Ok, admittedly, I know more women who have a competitive streak than men do.

“Desi, don’t discount or play down the impact of race on feminism.”

I’m not, I’m just saying that there is also class involved. I said in my comment that I agree race has an impact on feminism?

“Real empowerment is self obtained.”

Sure, but the problem is that there are others who are continually taking away whatever ‘real empowerment’ someone strives for.

sounds like you are fetishizing colour Dalbair – “pretty ethnic women” ? So its all about the skin colour eh? Hmm. So much racism about. No – can’t be anything to do with invidiual personality – Nooo. Can’t get away between the link between ‘marriageablity and skin colour’ if you’re a woman eh?

Keep us in the right places, don’t let us escape!

Are you telling me you haven’t noticed this?

Desi, don’t discount or play down the impact of race on feminism. The way it looks to me is that many white men see the pretty ethnic women as eroticised creatures they must “save”

Hardly empowering. Besides, what kind of power is that which is given as a gift that can be revoked anytime? Real empowerment is self obtained.

“That competitive streak between women can really take a nasty turn…woow..especially when a new younger women comes on the scene.”

Now I think you are trolling. Why are you stereotyping women as having that ‘competitive streak between women”???

http://www.amazon.com/Feminism-without-Borders-Decolonizing-Practicing/dp/0822330210

Kind of theoretical in some places, but really dead on.