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    The Return of Anti-Semitism


    by Rohin on 2nd January, 2006 at 1:01 am    

    Rabbi Sir Jonathan SacksI say return, but had it ever left? Asians blogs or similar discussion fora often debate the undeniable rise in Islamophobia which has occurred over recent years. But, due to the obvious fact that there are less Jewish Asians, the issue of anti-semitism is not frequently addressed. Pickled Politics has objected to overt anti-semitism from the Iranian president and also criticised bodies like the MCB, who manage to overlook Ahmadinejad’s idiocy. We’ve come to expect anti-Jewish rhetoric from similarly-minded leaders, but is Europe following suit?

    Today the UK’s Chief Rabbi, Sir Jonathan Sacks, told the BBC Radio 4 Sunday Programme that he thinks anti-semitism is washing over the world like a tsunami [Listen here]. He considered the media, the Internet and best-selling books as vehicles which have created an image around the world that Israel is the root cause of all problems. As a result of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, violent campaigns waged by Islamic militants have won support. He feels that Jews outside Israel are being targetted as a result of events in the Middle East. He conceded that achieving peace in the Holy Land would make it harder for anti-semitism to flourish.

    Sir Jonathan explained that the growth in anti-semitism is mostly outside the UK, but Europe as a whole seems quite unaware. France was singled out as a problem-area. Synagogues have been desecrated and Jewish schools have been burnt down. He also reported that several rabbinical colleagues throughout Europe have been attacked.

    A few weeks ago, when fingers were being pointed in the wake of the Paris riots, French MPs criticised rap music which they claimed is freqently openly sexist and anti-semitic.

    Figures from the UK-based Community Security Trust, which monitors anti-Semitic incidents and advises the Jewish community on such matters, said it had seen a huge rise in incidents last year.

    Some 532 anti-Semitic incidents were recorded by the trust in 2004, 83 of which were physical assaults.

    Sir Jonathan added that he was concerned that more was not being done to change attitudes. [Link]

    The Ukrainian press was recently lauded for helping bring about the ‘Orange Revolution’ which brought in Viktor Yushchenko, but papers like Silski Visti, which has been vocal in support of Yushchenko’s allies, has been frequently criticised by Jewish groups for being anti-semitic.

    An East-European neighbour, Poland, is home to famously anti-semitic mainstream papers such as Nasz Dziennik.

    And lest we forget Red Ken has been accused of being insensitive to Jews. An anti-semitism website carries a page of essays from the UK, France and Italy detailing the problem of judeaphobia in these countries - I have not read them all in detail, I will confess - but they waste no time pointing to the “new left, the far right, anti-globalists, radical Islam and human rights activists.”

    Yes, those DAMNED human rights activists, always campaigning for human rights! Bastards!

    In Italy, the rise in anti-semitism has led senior politicians to say that Europe must be “more sensitive” towards Israel. I can’t help but feel this is entirely the wrong approach.

    A new American documentary, entitled Les Protocoles de la rumeur (English title The Protocols of Zion), explores the global rise in anti-semitism since 9/11. On the face of it, this seems counter-intuitive. 9/11 has provoked Islamophobia as people tar Muslims with the same brush as the 9/11 hijackers. However the film reveals the surprisingly widely-held belief that Jews were behind the WTC attacks and examines why this theory enjoys such popularity.

    The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a notorious 1903 anti-semitic hoax which is freqeuntly quoted by anti-semites in need of ammunition, most famously a certain Adolf Hitler. Filmmaker Marc Levin takes a trip around America to try and understand why blatantly fraudulent texts like The Protocols and myths about Jews, the Illuminati and 9/11 are so popular.

    On his trip, Levin talks to a bunch of people, from rednecks to Rob Reiner, skinheads to Sikhs, Muslims to Mel Gibson’s dad and some of the things he hears really are bonkers. One of the interviewees is an Arab-Americans, who published the Protocols in an Arab newsletter. However, towards the end of the film, Levin does veer towards anti-Islam, which is surely quite the same as anti-semitism.

    Technorati tags: anti-semitism, judaism, religion, Politics



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    63 Comments below   |  

    1. Baz — on 2nd January, 2006 at 1:58 am  

      “Yes, those DAMNED human rights activists, always campaigning for human rights! Bastards!”

      I think some people are rightly critical of dreary politicized human rights activists because they are very selective in their outrage, in short they lack a moral compass. For instance the same people who are willing to tar Israelis for defending themselves, were suspiciously quiet when Saddam was shoveling Iraqis into mass graves, or silent when a very real genocide was unfolding in southern Sudan. When the Left does notice an adulterous woman being stoned to death under Sharia law, or some other outrage in the Islamic world, it is usually dismissed as an aberration of an otherwise peaceful religion.

      I really don’t think this huge surge in anti-jewish incidents over the last couple of years can be blamed on white skinheads and a cursory glance at any european newspaper would’nt help anyone establish the identity of those responsible. this has to do with the mainstream media’s unwillingness to disclose the exact identity of these “youths” who are responsible for the new antisemitism. It routinely referred to the “youths,” or “rioters,” or “angry immigrants.” The fact that the rioting immigrant youths were Muslims, overwhelmingly so, was either omitted or treated as incidental. Although the rioters’ shouted “Allahu akbar!” this was treated as a mere idiosyncrasy that would be cured if the French state gave those “youths” more jobs, dark-skinned TV anchors, and, of course, lots of “affirmative action” in employment and education.

    2. Rohin — on 2nd January, 2006 at 2:40 am  

      Absolutely Baz, I take your point, but I would still feel uncomfortable labelling people who are selective in their condemnation as ‘human rights activists’. To me that means Amnesty International or UNICEF. I would tend to choose the label you mention as well, elements of the Left.

      Left wingers can be irritatingly silent on topics and vociferous about others. I consider myself left wing and I at least try and be consistent. I don’t think I show favoritism to any particular group. Condemning white Australian rioters whilst defending Muslim French rioters is not on.

      When I mentioned East Europe, that was simply to note that racism in general is on the rise there. I would wholly agree that the main drive of anti-semitism IN EUROPE has come from radical Islam.

      But the film I mentioned opened my eyes to what it’s like in America. The really intense hatred of Jews, and I mean intense, is not confined to Muslims - it’s generations old. In the UK I feel we have abandoned many of the outdated and prejudiced views held by past generations (which certain outspoken members of the Islamic community are trying to resurrect), but in America they’re as suspicious of Jews and a global secret power as they ever were.

    3. Tanvit — on 2nd January, 2006 at 4:41 am  

      Anti-semitism is just as bad as the racism and ethnic-cleansing that is perpetrated on the Palestinians.

      Those that are perpetrating the anti-semitism really need to look within and ask do they stand for righteousness, or are they just taking their own side.

      There is a very broad-mix on motives, and also genuine moral reasoning behind people’s stances and its difficult to generalise, but you could probably split them into 4 or 5 categories.

      Efforts to counter genuine protest by labelling it racism / anti-semitism is also strife and it is easy to point at other crisis and say what about those? But the ones who use that as an often lame counter argument (how do you know the protester’s view on Sudan or East Timor??etc)….could be the same people who were calling for Saddam to taken down, wilfully not giving a shit about the ‘collateral damage’…… yet when Robet Mugabe’s or Islam Karimov’s name comes up, its like who cares?

      So the solutions??—————————————-
      Well I think a lot of it is over-simplifying matters by people, also lack of education in socially-deprived masses and of course sheer unacceptable racism.

      These people need to be educated:
      The Muslim kids who think Israeli crimes automatically mean its ‘Us against the Jews’ ….highlighting the clear distinction between a state and a religion is a good step, then explaining that the oversimplifying of the matter means you are actually vilifying a religion given by God and its Haram. Showing them organisations like Neturei Karta
      Or jewsagainstzionism may help.
      As for the Jewish conspiracy stuff….conspiracies are usually about ‘unknown’ ..or secret on-goings….and this is hardly an unknown phenomena!!… again things need to be looked at how it is…nothing more nothing less…. the ills of capitalism is in front of our faces, corporate importance and the Jewish dominance over the capitalist might (including its influence over major world events in history) is not a secret - its when its turned into a mad conspiracy theory, exaggerated without any proof…people start to sound stupid…and rather than offer it as an explanation to their own failures!!… they should do the right thing..and that is to work to improve themselves in a righteous manner, because that is the only method for countering such ideologies.

      It just all seems to be about taking sides, or people not employing effort in their thinking enough to actively discrepant between things… like the desire to actively speak out against anti-Semitism….can turn into someone totally and willingly turning a blind-eye to Israeli crimes….(hmm how many articles have we seen on PP about Israel’s ethnic cleansing program in the promised land??) and in the same way the disgust in Israel’s crimes turning into a mosque leader’s failure to speak out against terrorism…. the taking sides bit is what is one of the main problems to the lack of understanding and political negotiations alike…. And when they are the main factors behind the ‘peace-making’ that is going on….no wonder it is hopeless

      What needs to be done is everyone to actively speak out against wrongs on both sides…just like Mosque Imams get demonised for not speaking out against every suicide bombing the world over….the Rabbi in the article above should be asked how many times he has spoke out against Israel’s ethnic cleansing?

      Just double-standards…n double-standards… is what comes to mind when this kind of issue is being read… but then the Sun and Fox news with its duty to educate the lowest common denominator of society sets the example…

      Anyways…I have been on this site farrrr too long….im supposed to be not coming on the net till my exams are done but I have relapsed after a good while away!! Will come back and see how this discussion is going in a few days..

    4. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 5:06 am  

      “He conceded that achieving peace in the Holy Land would make it harder for anti-semitism to flourish.”

      I couldnt disagree more with this comment. He seems to suggest that if there were “peace” in the Middle East people would stop hating Jews. I am so glad Islam discriminates on the basis of ideas and not people-hood. It just makes so much more sense.

      Rabbi Sacks really shouldnt make these kinds of comments because it lends anti semetism some legitimacy.

    5. El Cid — on 2nd January, 2006 at 12:38 pm  

      I think his use of a tsunami as a metaphor is crass and insensitive. After all, representatives of the Jewish race/religion are often up in arms whenever genocide or holocaust is used in a context other than Nazi Germany.
      I also think he is exagerrating and does his people no favours, insofar as I don’t believe jewish people are singled out for special treatment in comparison to, say, people with darker skins, moslems. We’re not in the middle ages, let alone the interwar years.

    6. Rohin — on 2nd January, 2006 at 1:21 pm  

      Good point El Cid, w/r the use of the word tsunami, it did seem a bit odd.

      Good luck with your exams Tanvir.

    7. Don — on 2nd January, 2006 at 2:24 pm  

      Bikhair,

      Please don’t push the limits of the tolerance you find here.

    8. El Cid — on 2nd January, 2006 at 2:28 pm  

      Before anyone associates me with the above comments, I would just like to say that the holocaust is one thing that is not exaggerated and that the jewish people are a class people who I respect greatly.
      Bikhair, on the other hand, is an islamofascist faux-intelligent minger whose husband is probably cuckolding her as one writes because the obnoxious piousness she displays is usually a cover for deep psychological anxiety.

    9. j0nz — on 2nd January, 2006 at 2:52 pm  

      ^^ lol El Cid

    10. Col. Mustafa — on 2nd January, 2006 at 3:18 pm  

      “One nuke exploding over Tel Aviv will get rid of 70% of the Jewish problem.”

      Why would you say that?
      Its not even funny, its just plain ignorant.

      Ahh yes, anti semitism does exist in a very wierd sort of way.
      Even in UK, go work for an accountants and you’ll come across it at some point.
      I think its more jealousy as well with regards to jewish people.
      What can you do, there will always be scapegoats made for whatever problems individuals or communities face and usually its the people doing better than them.

    11. raz — on 2nd January, 2006 at 4:08 pm  

      Anti-semites are sick people. When will they learn that their hatred will never win out?

      May Allah bless Israel.

    12. Rohin — on 2nd January, 2006 at 4:30 pm  

      And may Jehovah bless Palestine.

      On a more general note, from a young age (I went to a pretty Jewish school) I’ve been aware of the deep-seated suspicion the GENTILE (love that word) hold about Jews. Now, I was fed some Jewish propaganda at school and also some of the opposite, but I could never figure out why so many people disliked them so much.

      One of my classmates was Rabbi Julia Neuberger’s son. Although we drifted our separate ways later on, we were good mates to begin with. However he was my only good Jewish friend - the rest would be friendly, but I’d never get an invite around to their house. I’m very proud that my school was such a melting pot and everyone got on - but there was one commonly accepted trend. That the Jewish kids used to stick together.

      Whether this trait is a reaction to prejudice or whether this trait is what CAUSES the prejudice is the 64 million dollar question.

    13. Ahmad — on 2nd January, 2006 at 5:37 pm  

      All this really is, is a battle of ideologies.

      Ideologies of being victimised.

      The over sensitive Israeli sympathising jews shout out anti semitism when they are faced with questions they can’t answer.

      on the other hand.

      We have the exact same behaviour of some elements of the Muslim community who scream Islamaphobia when questioned about certain things.

      Neither is better than the other.

      The holocaust did happen, and to consider it as a myth is a backwards statement. However if the jews want to have a day of rememberance for it, so be it. I don’t see why anybody should stand up and say

      ‘what about our day of rememberance?’

      and be bitter about it.

      Personally I wouldn’t want a rememberance day for Muslims as there have been a lot of Muslims killed all over the globe in the name of genocide. A Muslims heart should go out for them every day, not just on one specific day. So to be nit-picky around rememberance days is just silly.

      It shouldn’t be a competition about who suffers the most, we should be working together to increase stability to prevent future suffering.

    14. Steve M — on 2nd January, 2006 at 5:46 pm  

      Whether this trait is a reaction to prejudice or whether this trait is what CAUSES the prejudice is the 64 million dollar question.

      Some of both, I suspect. I and many of my friends have both Jews and non-Jews as friends. I also know Jews who have mainly Jewish friends. It’s a bit like British Asians or any other ethnic group, I suppose.

      Prejudice is a strange thing though. I suspect that the root causes are ‘fear of the other’ and envy. In the case of the Jews there’s envy of the success that many of them undoubtably achieve. It’s funny really because if they hadn’t been persecuted so often and thrown out of so many countries since their diaspera from the Middle East all those hundreds of years ago would they have placed so much value on education (as the one asset that can’t be stolen and can always be taken with you) and would they have achieved their success in the first place?

      ‘Fear of the other’ is more understandable (and excusable?) as its roots must come from the dangers of strangers entering your community. When we look back over history outsiders have come many times into communities and either massacred them, expelled them, raped their women or simply wiped them out thorugh disease. Fear of the other has deep roots.

      You’d think though that in these enlightened times we could move beyond fear and envy as the guiding principles of our lives.

      A happy, fear free and great year to you all!

      … oh yes, and may G-d bless all the peoples of the ‘Holy Lands’.

    15. Yusuf Smith — on 2nd January, 2006 at 7:11 pm  

      Some of Bikhair’s posts are not really coming from Bikhair. The posts which originate from 142.78.*.* IP addresses (in Canada) with the email address bikhair1@hotmail.com are from someone else. The real Bikhair posts from 69.234.*.* which is pacbell.net, and does not have bikhair anywhere in her email handle.

    16. Vikrant — on 2nd January, 2006 at 7:16 pm  

      Maybe Bikhair is using a router (like me :p) and has access to loads of dynamic IP’s. But again seeing her itellectual ability i doubt it.

    17. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 7:24 pm  

      Vikrant,

      You may disagree with me but I am not an ignorant woman. I may be rude and obnoxious and but not stupid.

    18. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 7:26 pm  

      Bikhair #2,

      As you have mentioned before Allah (azawajal) is all knowing. If you fear Him you will stop impersonating me. On the day of judgement you will be raised up on your speech and actions not mine and on that day even your hands will be a witness against you.

      Stop being a jackass.

    19. Steve M — on 2nd January, 2006 at 7:46 pm  

      Allah is all knowing but surely the Pickled Politics team has the technology to know a little themselves. Is there any way to effectively police this sort of thing?

    20. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 7:48 pm  

      …and this is Steve M again, posting under the name Bikhair (with apologies). Surely I shouldn’t be able to do this.

    21. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 7:56 pm  

      El Cid,

      “Bikhair, on the other hand, is an islamofascist faux-intelligent minger whose husband is probably cuckolding her as one writes because the obnoxious piousness she displays is usually a cover for deep psychological anxiety.”

      WHen you realize I have a clone, I want a nice and sweet apology from you in both english and in Spanish. It better be nice because my husband is Spanish speaking and he will translate for me.

      “But I kind of agree with the Iranian president that the yahood have overexagerated the holocaust for their own ends, and Israel should be relocated to someplace in Europe.”

      I am supposed to be a Wahhabi/Salafi. When have I ever agreed with anything a Rafidah Shiite like the leader of Iran is, has to say?

      You talk to any scholar of ahlul Sunnah wa Jummah and they will tell you why this people are kafir. My husband would marry a Jewess before those stinking Shia who curse, even in thier prayers, the Companions of the Prophet whom I love.

      I believe my clone came on within the past few days so do me a favor. Compare what has been said by Bikhair #2 to anything that I have said in the past. This guy has even made statements of kufr and he doesnt even know it. Have you ever heard me talk about Jews or Isreal, ever? No. Although I have talked about the old school Isrealites to illustrate a point about the Bible concept of god to Mount Lebanon.

      I have never refered to anyone here as my enemy, though you may very well be, but have refered to you guys only as kafirs and sometimes retard, which I probably shouldnt have since I know no one here is really a retard.

      “cuckolding”

      What is that?

    22. Yusuf Smith — on 2nd January, 2006 at 8:00 pm  

      #18 Vikrant:

      Maybe Bikhair is using a router (like me :p) and has access to loads of dynamic IP’s. But again seeing her itellectual ability i doubt it.

      What sort of router? Do routers exist that give you fake IP addresses that you can’t get from your ISP? Dynamic IP addresses are given out on demand by the ISP, and it is always one of theirs. If your ISP is PacBell, you won’t get an address that is traceable to Canada.

    23. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 8:05 pm  

      Rohin,

      I sometimes wonder why the Muslims have to travel so far north to have this kind of dislike for Jews. Most Muslims dont know this but during a time when the Romans (East side Romans- Byzantines) were going back and forth with the then fire worshipping Persians, Prophet Muhammed (sallalahu alaihi wa salam) made dua on behalf of the Romans for a victory because the Byzantines were Christians and the Persians were fire worshippers aka hardcore Mushriks. Lets get real Muslim men cant even marry a Mushrik but they can marry ahlul kitab, we can also eat their meat. Huh? Did that sound sexual? Lol, see I do have a sense of humor.

      If this guy Mark Levin spoke to Muslims about Jews and Muslims only refered back to the Quran and the Sunnah, I doubt he would have much to document in that regard. But if the film were about Mushriks… Ha Ha Ha I kid.

    24. Jezza — on 2nd January, 2006 at 8:12 pm  

      my head hurts . mummy .

    25. Rohin — on 2nd January, 2006 at 8:50 pm  

      Yeah I noticed the different ISPs at one point earlier today - but I honestly wasn’t able to ascertain who was real (at that point).

      Steve there’s nothing really one can do (at least nothing I can do for now) to stop people posting as someone else. Hell, I even had a clone on here - from Holland!

      Bikhair - I’ll do my best to delete the clones. But then again I get a certain satisfaction when you get pissed off, as that’s what you’ve been doing to everyone else here for a few months now :Þ

    26. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 8:56 pm  

      Rohin,

      “Bikhair - I’ll do my best to delete the clones. But then again I get a certain satisfaction when you get pissed off, as that’s what you’ve been doing to everyone else here for a few months now :Þ”

      Shocking. In Islam we are taught anger is from Shaitan. I try not to get angry or make anyone else angry. Thanks for trying to help. I am more insulted that you couldnt tell us apart. If I come off like Bikhair #2, maybe I do need to lighten up. Ha Ha Ha I kid. But seriously get rid of this dude, he is ruining my firmly establish Pickled P VIP rep.

    27. El Cid — on 2nd January, 2006 at 9:26 pm  

      Bikhair, apols for mistaking you for someone else.
      However, I do largely believe that you are “an islamofascist faux-intelligent minger whose husband is probably cuckolding her as one writes because the obnoxious piousness you display is probably a cover for a deep psychological anxiety.”
      I would happily write that in Spanish, but I don’t know what the correct translation for minger is.

    28. Bikhair — on 2nd January, 2006 at 9:42 pm  

      El Cid,

      I need to break it down.

      “an islamofascist faux-intelligent minger”

      Islamo- InshaAllah.
      Fascist- astagfirullah, all those “isms” stem from kufr.
      intelligent- well Duh!
      minger- Que dice?

      You still gotta tell me what cuckolding means. BTW, my husband is either working or sleeping when I go online. I wont front though, he woulndt like the things I say to you guys and would consider my time here such a waste.

      “deep psychological anxiety”

      You gotta explain this one to me. With my faux intelligence I cant understand why you wouldnt have in the first place.

    29. Don — on 2nd January, 2006 at 10:54 pm  

      Which one is this?

    30. Rohin — on 2nd January, 2006 at 10:55 pm  

      Don, the two above you are genuine Bikhairisms. One I just deleted wasn’t. See what I mean about having trouble telling them apart?!

    31. Don — on 2nd January, 2006 at 11:17 pm  

      Why not just put the two of them into a cage-fight and see who comes out?

    32. Rohin — on 2nd January, 2006 at 11:20 pm  

      Now THAT I’d pay to see.

    33. Bikhair — on 3rd January, 2006 at 4:28 am  

      Rohin,

      Be honest, you know I am much cooler than Bikhair#2.

    34. bananabrain — on 3rd January, 2006 at 3:50 pm  

      OK - getting back to the original subject, this could be a long post, for those of you with short attention spans, but hopefully it will be worth reading. i’d happily write an article as a guest contributor if you’d prefer. hehe.

      a word about rabbi sacks - don’t be misled by the title “chief rabbi” - he’s actually the figurehead of the mainstream orthodox community in the UK, but in reality this doesn’t count for that much within the wider jewish context. i have a lot of time for him personally, he’s jolly clever, very forward-thinking and really quite right-on, but he has no real power despite his access to the mainstream media. in fact, more often than not he is abused from both left and right by everyone who disagrees with him, when he is more or less on the centre-right of the community. and yes, i think the word “tsunami” was actually rather badly chosen imho. i suspect, however, that it was chosen to convey just how scary jewish people find the current antisemitism (whether it is new, old, cyber, global, islamo- or whatever the feck it actually is) in its scale and virulence. i can’t remember it being this bad in my lifetime, but then i am only 35.

      they waste no time pointing to the “new left, the far right, anti-globalists, radical Islam and human rights activists.”
      it seems that the only thing that lefties and loonies either muslim or fascist can all agree on is that israel is the “poison in the well of international politics” - i use the metaphor advisedly, because it is highly reminiscent of the way the jewish people were considered in the middle ages - and still are in the middle east.

      Yes, those DAMNED human rights activists, always campaigning for human rights!
      and never for human responsibilities…. hence:

      I think some people are rightly critical of dreary politicized human rights activists because they are very selective in their outrage, in short they lack a moral compass.
      oh, hell, yeah. it’s amazing how little is being said about the real genocide going on in darfur in comparison to the real lack of genocide in the palestinian territories. OK - i’m not saying the palestinians have it easy, the situation is a terrible one, but they are not being intentionally murdered as part of a policy and to imply that they are (see the routine assumptions about “Israel’s ethnic cleansing program in the promised land” above) completely undermines the credibility of the many valid criticisms people are entitled to make of the israeli government. try reading an israeli paper for a while (i suggest http://www.haaretzdaily.com) and you’ll get a decent idea of the sort of debate that happens within israeli society. and while we’re at it, let’s examine what we mean by “ethnic cleansing” - the only true “ethnic cleansing” israel has done recently is to “cleanse” jewish settlers from the gaza strip. hmmmm. now, let’s examine how many jews live elsewhere in the middle east…. doesn’t take long, does it? in fact, let’s see if jews are allowed to live in arab countries? no, not even jewish-iraqi exiles are permitted to apply for iraqi citizenship. we’re not even allowed to visit a lot of places. and don’t get me started on that maniac who in theory runs iran…

      One nuke exploding over Tel Aviv will get rid of 70% of the Jewish problem
      and i wonder what the fall-out will do to the palestinians? israel is 15 km wide at its “waist”. not what i call a clean solution exactly. but then the practical realities of helping the palestinians has never been the arab world’s strong suit.

      this has to do with the mainstream media’s unwillingness to disclose the exact identity of these “youths” who are responsible for the new antisemitism. It routinely referred to the “youths,” or “rioters,” or “angry immigrants.” The fact that the rioting immigrant youths were Muslims, overwhelmingly so, was either omitted or treated as incidental
      while i certainly agree that there is a considerable amount of grassroots and establishment islamophobia, i think there’s a considerably larger body of opinion whose watchword is “don’t upset the muslims”. consider how willing our delightful mayor in london is to upset the jews by comparison….

      Showing them organisations like Neturei Karta or jewsagainstzionism may help.
      you’ve got to be kidding. neturei karta (who are also behind jewsagainstzionism) are utter, utter loonies and completely beyond the pale of any normal sect even within the ultra-orthodox world. these are the same extremist nutters who supported the original PLO charter which called for the destruction of israel. they’re fond of appearing for photocalls with anti-israeli dictators (to give credence to the notion that “i’m not anti-semitic, just anti-zionist; see this jew i have here? he’s even got a black hat and a beard”. they’re not even slightly representative and they’re regarded within the jewish community as sick joke.

      the ills of capitalism is in front of our faces, corporate importance and the Jewish dominance over the capitalist might (including its influence over major world events in history) is not a secret - its when its turned into a mad conspiracy theory, exaggerated without any proof
      even such assertions as “jewish dominance over [the] capitalist might” are without proof. throwaway remarks are indications of a deeper ignorance.

      the Rabbi in the article above should be asked how many times he has spoke out against Israel’s ethnic cleansing?
      read his book “the dignity of difference” if you want to know how rabbi sacks thinks. i don’t think there’s anything in there you could possibly object to

      insofar as I don’t believe jewish people are singled out for special treatment in comparison to, say, people with darker skins, moslems.
      contrary to what you seem to think, not all jews are white. i’m certainly not. my mum used to get called a “paki” all the time back in the day. nonetheless, even “white” jews, when dressed as jews, are identifiably jewish. if you’re on the receiving end, a skullcap or black hat or beard will do just as well as a brown skin.

      The over sensitive Israeli sympathising jews shout out anti semitism when they are faced with questions they can’t answer.
      i certainly know my fair share of these, but at least they are criticised from within the community for their ignorance - although i think PP is doing its bit to redress similar attitudes within the muslim community.

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    35. Rohin — on 3rd January, 2006 at 4:02 pm  

      Bananabrain, you were one of the main people whose opinion I wanted to get about this article, so glad you turned up! And I read the whole…long….comment! ;)

    36. El Cid — on 3rd January, 2006 at 4:13 pm  

      i didnt. split it up, and then i might

    37. El Cid — on 3rd January, 2006 at 4:18 pm  

      ok… i gave it a quick glance….

      so this:
      contrary to what you seem to think, not all jews are white. i’m certainly not. my mum used to get called a “paki” all the time back in the day. nonetheless, even “white” jews, when dressed as jews, are identifiably jewish. if you’re on the receiving end, a skullcap or black hat or beard will do just as well as a brown skin.
      is your answer to this:
      insofar as I don’t believe jewish people are singled out for special treatment in comparison to, say, people with darker skins, moslems.

      One way to shorten and tighten up your posts, I suggest, is to focus on the important stuff and desist from such irrelevent drivel

    38. Jay Singh — on 3rd January, 2006 at 4:45 pm  

      El Cid

      Actually I thought that bananabrain made some very good points and I enjoyed reading them. To characterise his post as irrelevant drivel is malicious and wrong.

      Thanks bananabrain!

    39. El Cid — on 3rd January, 2006 at 5:01 pm  

      the irrelevent drivel merely referred to the point I highlighted

    40. bananabrain — on 3rd January, 2006 at 5:18 pm  

      rohin - my pleasure!

      el cid - call me mr thicky, but i don’t exactly get your point. have i missed something? all i was saying was that jews, when “visible”, are just as visible as muslims and just as much on the receiving end. i don’t see how that’s irrelevant or drivel.

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    41. Jay Singh — on 3rd January, 2006 at 6:27 pm  

      El Cid

      You are being silly and obviously have a grudge against Banana Man - bananaman ignore him your post was informative and relevant.

    42. El Cid — on 3rd January, 2006 at 9:55 pm  

      Banana: tell me something I don’t know, rather than rehash a point I had largely made and claim it as your own. After all moslems can be white and blue-eyed too (You better believe it Bikhair darling). And yes, most of my Jewish friends have mediterranean complexions, while those I see on TV who originally came from Ethiopia really are dark. In fact, where I live there are quite a few with big beards, curls and enormous hats that look like those automated shoe polishers you get in some posh hotels. So yes, they can be really visible.
      Jay: That tsunami Sacks gracelessly and callously spoke about has clearly washed over North London too. I must be anti-semitic.

    43. Jay Singh — on 3rd January, 2006 at 10:12 pm  

      El Cid

      I think it’s you that’s rambling irrelevant drivel now, mate.

    44. Bikhair — on 3rd January, 2006 at 11:13 pm  

      El Cid,

      “After all moslems can be white and blue-eyed too (You better believe it Bikhair darling).”

      Oh my!

    45. Rohin — on 3rd January, 2006 at 11:37 pm  

      We’ve all heard our fill of zany Muslim stories, so here’s one for this thread.

      British Jew Marries Dolphin

    46. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 1:01 pm  

      Rohin

      What was the porpoise of linking to that story?

    47. bananabrain — on 4th January, 2006 at 4:10 pm  

      el cid: i think you’ve misunderstood me. i was backing up the point and agreeing with it, rather than “claiming it as my own” - and yes, of course, muslims can be any colour. however, white, blue-eyed muslims are just as “visible” as jews if - and this is the point i should probably have made - they are traditionally dressed and barbered or otherwise identifiable. this is why it tends to be ultra-orthodox rather than reform jews who get beaten up. it’s also why dimwit racists attack sikhs and hindus because they have no idea what muslims actually dress like.

      nobody’s calling you anti-semitic - calm down. and don’t worry about me, jay, i’m a grown-up.

      and that story did make me laugh. it’s tough in the n. london singles market….

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    48. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 4:32 pm  

      bananabrain

      What does b’shalom mean?

    49. bananabrain — on 4th January, 2006 at 4:35 pm  

      “in peace”.

      what is it in punjabi? lovely language, but i only know how to swear in it.

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    50. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 4:44 pm  

      banabrain

      Yep - Punjabi is the best language on Earth for swearing. The inventiveness of some of the incestuous curses is truly breathtaking.

      I dont know what a direct translation would be. But when Punjabi’s say goodbye they often say Raab Raakha

      (pronouced Rub Ruk-ha)

      It means Keep God Close To You.

    51. Siddharth — on 4th January, 2006 at 4:47 pm  

      Should it not translate to
      “Lord keep your Soul”, or some such?

      Rub being drived from the Arabic, Rab (Lord).

    52. bananabrain — on 4th January, 2006 at 5:06 pm  

      well i haven’t really graduated from “ullu” and “pendhu” to skipinder-the-kangaroo-standard, but education is never a waste of time. is there a website anywhere on learning to curse like a denizen of the subcontinent?

      israelis generally curse in arabic - it’s much better because of all the hissing sounds, but there are always possibilities.

      yiddish (that’s the mediaeval european-jewish mix of hebrew and german) has some good stuff. my father-in-law is fond of saying of any big-mouthed idiot that he is a “tuches mit fil gescheften” - an “arse full of hot air”.

      there are some good talmudic curses, like “may the name of the wicked rot” and so on, but generally our sages are practitioners of what is known as “lashon naqi” - a “clean tongue”. no laughing at the back there.

      raab raakha

      bananabrain

      btw: is hindi any good for this?

    53. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 5:16 pm  

      Siddharth

      I dont know the etymology of the word but in common Punjabi usage Raab is used as a word for God.

      bananabrain

      http://www.insultmonger.com/swearing/punjabi.htm

      Now I have to admit that the full repertoire of inventiveness is not represented here. I am referring specifically to when my Uncle once told someone that his father’s sister’s husband lit candles on his grandmothers nipples and put the flames out with his sperm. But it is a start.

      Hindi has basic cusses like Punjabi. But because Punjabi is a very vibrant and rustic language it has a particular sway and effectiveness to it.

      Click around that insult monger link - wanna tell someone that his mother is a whore in Samoan? Look no further.

      Raab Raakha

    54. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 5:18 pm  

      bananabrain

      ‘Schmuck’ is a Yiddish word isnt it?

    55. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 5:25 pm  

      Siddhartha

      re Raab Raakha -

      ‘Raakha’ means to put something somewhere, to place it, to keep it - but the combined sensibility of the term is to keep God with you, keep him in your mind, keep God close to you ====> the further extension of this meaning being that to remember God is to stay safe, to stay at peace. That is why I think it is the best example from Punjabi to compare to b’shalom.

      It also signifies that the speaker parts with an expression of blessing and peace - you say it when you say goodbye to someone.

    56. Siddharth — on 4th January, 2006 at 5:49 pm  

      Jay Singh

      Surely the expression, literally, means may God keep you rather than keep God with you. The Subject being God and the object the person receiving the blessing, metaphysically speaking. There are many other Arabic words found in both Panjabi and Hindi. A fact that is a source of irritation of many a Hindutva groupie, in my experience. I’d say the expression is more analagous with the midieval English phrase Godspeed.

      Rab Raakha

      Sid

    57. bananabrain — on 4th January, 2006 at 5:59 pm  

      thank you both and i look forward to insulting you in the near future in fluent punjabi!

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    58. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 6:13 pm  

      Siddhartha

      But in the phrase you are telling the person to keep God close to themselves - Raakha is a conscious reminder to the addressee, the same way you would say, keep your wallet with you, keep your wits about you, both object and sensibility.

      I think these words come into Punjabi via Persian rather than Arabic. It is the natural course for languages to bleed and influence each other - English is a mongrel language. It works the other way too - you know that the imposition of Urdu on East Bengal was because it was deemed to be a pure Muslim language as opposed to the horrible sanskritic ‘Hindu influenced’ Bengali.

      They are just a bunch of paan chod’s anyway, all of them who believe in purity of language.

      b’shalom

    59. Rohin — on 4th January, 2006 at 6:19 pm  

      I am proud to say I contributed a few insults to the insultmonger swearasaurus! Specifically some French, Hindi and Bong. There are some corkers on there, really imaginative gems. My fave is:

      Mein teri maa ko teri bhen ki choot mein chodoonga aur tera baap laltern lekar aayega = I will fuck your mom in your sister’s c*nt and your dad will bring a lantern.

      It makes NO fucking sense!

      Jay who says Sanskrit-influenced Bengali is horrible? You or are you giving the opinion of the West Pakistanis? I’m guessing the second. I really don’t like Bangladeshi Bengali, but tbh there aren’t that many differences. Sylheti, on the other hand, is fugly.

      I love language, I love reading about it, studying it, etymology, anthropology and trying to learn foreign tongues. No dirty jokes please.

      Peace out mofos.

    60. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 11:25 pm  

      Rohin

      I’ve got nothing but the highest respect for the Bengali language and culture. All the writers and film makers that came from Bengal. I grew up with a Bengali best friend. Love you baby!

    61. Siddharth — on 4th January, 2006 at 11:40 pm  

      Jay

      Rab is an Arabic word and not Farsi (Persian).

      As for Urdu - contrary to popular belief, there is nothing pure about it. Its an admixture of Hindi, Persian, Arabic and marks the confluence of the three languages rather than being a root language. There’s no doubt it sounds beautiful, and there is some beautiful Urdu poetry and prose. But I don’t know where the Urdu-speakers get off of the purity thing. Its a hybrid language.

      Bangladeshis have fought for the use of Bengali. The following is from wikipedia
      Around 1950-52, the emerging middle class of East Bengal underwent an uprising known later as the Bhasha Andolon, or Language Movement. Bengalis (then East Pakistanis) were initially agitated by a decision by the central Pakistani government to establish Urdu as the sole national language for all of Pakistan, despite the fact that Urdu was only a minority language spoken by the supposed elite class of what was then West Pakistan. At the peak of resentment, on February 21, 1952, Bengali students (mainly of Dhaka Medical College and University of Dhaka) and activists walked into military and police fire and were killed in demand of the recognition and establishment of the Bangla language - spoken by the majority of the then-Pakistani population - as one of the, if not the sole, national language of erstwhile Pakistan. The day is revered in modern-day Bangladesh and, to a somewhat lesser extent, in West Bengal as the Language Martyrs’ Day.

      UNESCO decided to observe 21 February as International Mother Language Day. The UNESCO General Conference took a decision to that took effect on 17 November 1999 when it unanimously adopted a draft resolution submitted by Bangladesh and co-sponsored and supported by 28 other countries.

      Rohin, I find the Calcutta accent a little affected and comical. The purest form of Bangla is actually spoken in Kushtia, Bangladesh. And as for Sylheti, its more akin to Naga than Bangla, and yeah its effin’ fugly.

    62. Jay Singh — on 4th January, 2006 at 11:46 pm  

      As for Urdu - contrary to popular belief, there is nothing pure about it

      My point was that depending on the context, chauvinists of any stripe can use language as a tool for their agenda and patisanship. The mongrel roots of all languages are irrelevant to them.

    63. Arif — on 5th January, 2006 at 12:45 am  

      Hmmmmm…..

      For a lot of reasons, a lot of Muslims and Jews are oversensitive towards one another, so that whatever the Chief Rabbi says will be scrutinised for Islamophobic overtones and special pleading, and whatever MCB spokespeople say will also be scrutinised for anti-semitic elements and double standards. If we get swept away by the thrill of feeling morally pure, by condemning people who voice their real fear and anger because we think they don’t give voice to the real anger on the other side, we are burning down our bridges to reconciliation. But sadly I think this is what happens too often.

      Sure there is a lot of overt paranoid aggressive hatred in my (Muslim) community, and the Jews I know say that there is a similar kind of hatred within their community for Muslims. But the chief rabbi is definitely not a hate-monger. I might disagree with his politics and detect subtle double standards, but he speaks out for conciliation, and that is no more than he is doing here. There are so few people around in the “mainstream” who I feel I can trust to to do that, my instinct is to want to stand with him.

      And I think, give them their due, as irritatingly pro-establishment and meally mouthed Zaki Badawi and all those supposed to represent me are, they too are trying to do their bit for conciliation. These people do meet each other in inter-faith events, and probably get on. This should be more public and Muslim “leaders” should be welcoming the statement from the Chief Rabbi and publicise a request to meet and discuss his fears with him, at least I think that would represent me better than saying “we suffer islamophobia too, and we tell our young to obey the law” which completely misses the point.

      Sadly the paranoid impulses within us look for the worst interpretations, and the sensationalist impulses in the media do something similar. The good work and healing words are simply too boring to listen to.

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