Dismissing police harassment
I posted this on the thread below but I think this point needs to be made more loudly.
I do find it really amusing that supposedly “progressive” people these days are so easily dismissive of of police harassment as nothing major or to get annoyed about.
I was at Climate Camp last year and the police presence was enormous, and for no fucking reason. One media report by the Evening Standard said there was going to be potential terrorists there. Of course, it was pure rubbish. This time a police report went around saying the environmentalists were going to stab police horses (as if!) etc.
There is a concerted campaign of misinformation and harassment spread by the police and aided by the right-wing media, when British citizens should be perfectly allowed to protest as is their democratic right.
I don’t care for all the poncy middle class media commentators and bloggers who dismiss it since they’ve most likely never seen the end of a police truncheon because they bother protesting about anything anyway. After all, the police isn’t going to harass them is it? But when it does, they’ll suddenly start wondering how the police got so heavy-handed and where they got all these powers from. The answer is right in front of your eyes suckers.
Related:
Police arrest Climate Camp protestor for carrying Vit. C
Protesting penguins kicked out of town park
| Post to del.icio.us |
Filed in: Civil liberties
You’re getting swept away in hysteria.
Next you’ll be asking whether the police really have a right to arrest anyone.
How’s this hysteria? Sunny is absolutely right. Citizens have a democratic right to peaceful protest. The protest at Kingsnorth was demonstrably peaceful; they’re serving food based in the notion that killing anything is an abhorronce, and want to educate. Some were quite clear about their intention to close the power station for a day, yes. But that, surely, only justifies a cordon around the power station to prevent that – while allowing peaceful protestors to continue as they have every right to do.
Instead, the police set up a cordon around the camp. They then intruded on that camp, made some quite absurd confiscations (soap and crayons spring to mind; hardly terror-weapons) and generally intimidated the protestors. A protestor was taken into custody today for 5 hours today for carrying Vitamin C tablets. And all this at an estimated cost of £3 million; quite how is that acceptable?
You’re getting swept away in hysteria.
I know, getting annoyed about civil liberties is so last year.
taken into custody today for 5 hours today for carrying Vitamin C tablets.
This happens hundreds of times every Friday and Saturday night
This happens hundreds of times every Friday and Saturday night
Now now Marvin, they’re need to need to pretend with us
Anyway, moving on from the levels of brutality debate or Sunny’s brazen assumption that anyone who doesn’t see a police state in action is a poncey middle classer, or er odd talk about pilling on the weekend…
I have some questions: where are the practical suggestions for countering this police behaviour? What can we do together to curtail their actions, limit their abuse of their powers and increase our civil liberties?
Unless you lot can come up with some workable answers to above you’re not worth anyone’s time quite frankly.
I’m not having a go at you Leon – I’ve seen plenty of rubbish on other blogs about this and in the media. The discussion on PP just annoyed me further because I thought at least people here would be more concerned about our civil liberties. Incidentally, I don’t believe that saying black people have seen much worse is necessarily a rebuttal since this isn’t a zero sum game. We should be as concerned about that as well as this – in fact this all part of the same pattern.
What can we do? Constantly highlight it for a start. Its only when people made a big deal about the police brutality at the G8 summit in Genoa that the govt investigated and found out the extent to which the police broke its own laws and were intent on beating up peaceful protestors.
Leon, we do what we’ve always done. Complain to the authorities. That’s what we do. Adhere to the law, (unless you have extenuating circumstances) and make your feelings known.
Who defines, “extenuating circumstances,” though?
Where pretty much everyone can agree
Which was supposed to be the aim of the environmentalists. To mainstream their agenda. They’re alienating people and getting their kicks with boats and wire cutters.
The second link sunny posted. Not police. Parks manager.
Sunny – you stretch the point and what is more you know it.
The problem on the other thread is not per se an over indulgence of the police, it is simply that the climate camp video was a very transparent piece of spin that was practically a parody of itself. Indeed, if there were any out-and-out legitimate grievances they were probably diminished by the laughable ‘look at me, I’m a wannabe oppressed mass,’ feel on display.
Sunny, you need to have more faith in your readers. We know a piss-poor police effort when we see one. It is just that the video that was posted was clearly not such a piss-poor effort.
Sunny, if the Government stretched the point this far you would (rightly) be amongst the first to be decrying a spin operation. You can not however have it both ways. Spin is spin, whether you are suckered or not.
Sorry.
LOL! I know that, but I feel your assumptions are without value unless you can clearly point to evidence that shows the people dismissing this have no protest experience of policing..
I never said it was a zero sum game, I don’t think one devalues the other but I still think some historical perspective and recognition of this would help. You know you’re big on the whole joined up leftism so how about a little of it from the current crop of civil libbers?
Highlighting it as a start but you know we’ve been ‘highlighting it’ for years. How has us highlighting this curtailed police abuse of their powers here?
I’m not meaning to be so combative but if anyone’s going to start attacking others for not being outraged enough then they should have a real strong case to make, a credible alternative and the means to carry them out.
You can tell I’ve just finished reading Matt Bai’s book The Argument can’t you?
Oh no you haven’t. You’re just merely gainsaying by stating a contrary position
Who are you trying to kid: you are a poncey middle class commentator.
Seeing as I have some actual knowledge of where the video report came from that you are saying is spin on behalf of the protesters, I just thought I’d share it with you.
It was filmed by a reporter from Kent Online who have been doing a pretty good job of covering the whole camp. This is the entry in their blog concerning the protest about the police stop and search:
Here is the thoughts of someone on their ‘Speak Out’ section:
So please don’t accuse protesters of spin without first checking the facts and background to the story.
The whole reason those people went out there was from outrage at the cops abusing their power to deter and harass people coming to a legal camp. Yes, they probably knew that their actions would result in arrest, and that the police would be provoked, but they put themselves in that position to highlight the police’s tactics. Luckily, there was an ‘impartial’ (cos if it had been another protester, clearly, it would all be cynical spin) person to film it. Often when people stand up for civil liberties, there is no-one to film it. And for all that, all these people get are slurs from apparently liberal, armchair critics who just seem to have rather large chips on their shoulders.
No, it’s not horrendous like the deaths of black men by police brutality, nor is it as hardcore as repression by other police forces in the world, but do we speak out about police abusing their powers everywhere or not? No- because the people on the receiving end here are quite clearly feeble-minded white middle class twats who are just asking for it, right?
For anyone who can be bothered, here are two films of more dodgy police antics:
Legal observers being blocked by Police:
http://blip.tv/file/1157113
100 people walk through Police barriers. The law states that people can be detained only for a ‘brief’ time. After 1-4 hour waits to be searched, people had enough and ignored police:
http://blip.tv/file/1151078
The film above is worth watching in particular for the reaction of the cops when the crowd realise they can just walk through to the camp and there’s not a thing they can do about it.
Unfortunately, the police responded to this disobedience by then extending their search powers to Section 60, covering the entire Hoo peninsular- which is apparently illegal. Sore losers, eh?
But again, who cares, because all 2000 of the campers are just environ-mentalists who love to look down on everyone else.
4.25pm
In what our reporters have described as distressing scenes about 100 police have moved in to disperse a group of about 30-40 protesters who were refusing to be searched.
They have told us how for each protester there were six to seven police officers.
Maths obviously not a strong point.
I’m with katy. I have no sympathy for the police when it comes to environmental protests.
Who are you trying to kid: you are a poncey middle class commentator.
and I’ve been on enough protests to last a lifetime already. Am a veteran of the may-day protests.
ha ha that article is funny, I know Matt quite well. I was surprised he got elected. He was also behind a lot of the stuff about the boatyard in Oxford which they successfully saved from property developers. This sort of thing wont put him off. He was blowing a trombone last time I went on a protest with him.
I am not dismissive of Police action, but I am not really indignant about their behaviour either. They are just the FIT squad aren’t they. They are professional wankers. They can’t help it. If you hang around protest enough you get to know who is who. They are told to be as much of a pain in the ass as possible, hopefully disuading people from coming back.
The Police state isn’t for us, it is for Muslims, its just these individual coppers who are wankers and enjoy being so. Fuck em. I don’t care how many times they photograph me, I always try to smile and make sure they get my good side.
I didn’t know you did Mayday Sunny nice one.
A bit of advice for people who want to do these things, keep a sense of humour, dont loose your rag. People who all wear the same uniform for a living are going to be a bit institutionalised aren’t they. Don’t even bother talking to the monkeyc. Look for the guy with the blue clipboard and try and reason with him.
Inders #19:
Petty. I knew somone was going to pick up on that. Is that all you can comment on?
Dave Bones #22:
I know what you mean about the FIT and keeping a sense of humour with them, but it isn’t just them, it’s the Met and riot cops as well as the random power-mad bobbies. So if it was me geting pressure-pointed, beaten bloody by a baton or having several knees in my back and on my neck- I’m sorry, but I don’t think I’d want to be smiling.
And the police state may have grown because of the excuse of the war on terror- but I think you’re mistaken if you think it’s just the Muslim population who now suffer for it- it’s all of us, albeit in varing degrees.
There may be individual cops who enjoy meting punishment on citizens they don’t like- but the orders and general culture come from higher up and it’s political. Like you said, they are told to be as much of a pain in the ass as possible, to dissuade people.
So if we don’t disobey, they’ve pretty much won.
Police worse now than in the 70s? The 60s? I just can’t see it and I’ve done a lot of this in the late eighties early nineties. In my experience of big civil disorder mainly focused around mayday there used to be a big group of people who were seriously into violence and a similar sized group of Police who were. These two groups found each other, equally there were a group of Police and a group of protesters who weren’t. They found each other too.
The actions of the FIT squad photographing violent protesters has stopped them coming back. It was a successful operation for them. They did the same thing with football violence (which they were invented for)
If anything they are a bit drunk with their own success and as you say, they think they can get away with anything in a zone designated section 60 or whatever it is. I spoke to their inventor (Barry Norman) when he was Islington Borough Commander. He is a very interesting fellow.
I thought black block made a huge mistake in this country focusing on Policemen and Police tactics and told them so at the time. If you are anti caplitalist your target for protest is extremist capitalists not their bloody footmen.
and they don’t get away with things. A lot of people have made decent money suing the Police over the years, from anti-royalist Movement against the monarchy types to people entraped on a coach etc etc.
I remember the Mayday protest when they disfigured the statue of the man who had led the fight against Hitler. That seemed to sum up their mindset perfectly.
Katy, numbers are not pedantic.
That is a big discrepancy.
As I’ve discussed with Sunny over email and I’ll repeat the sentiment here :
What is protest about ? Is it about alternative culture people earning their stripes and exchanging war stories to show how committed they are ? Or is about real change?
This is not furthering any agenda.
Its about people exchanging stupid stories, and Rumbold, I know the guy who did that too. He ended up on the front cover of a Police training manual.
I hardly think putting some grass on a statue of Churchill (lovely little racist he was in his youth I might add) counts as disfiguring.
Heh we must have bumped shoulders back in the day a few times then.
Those were the days….
Leon:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/730000/images/_732983_churchill_closeup150.jpg
Still, I suppose he only fought fascism. He didn’t buy organic fair trade coffee from his local shop.
Yeah…they were…
Rumbold,
Yeah terrible…
Funny thing about that incident. About a week or so after it the Guardian ran a piece which detailed an old news story about a bunch of teenages running amok in London acting like hooligans. One of them was Churchill.
I don’t idolise the old bastard and as a libertarian neither should you. Whatever happened to No Gods, No Masters?
Leon:
Churchill got up to plenty in his day, and one doesn’t have to admire everything that he said or did. I just find it amusing that people go on a march and the centrepiece of their contribution is to vandalise a statue of Hitler’s greatest foe. It really does say it all.
Rumbold @ 37:
Hitler’s greatest foe was not just one man, but an entire people and way of life.
The arguments against Churchill (and hence in favour of vandalising his statue) are almost certainly because to support one state against another state still leaves you with a winner: the state.
As Emma Goldman said in 1939:
“in a war between modern democracies and the Fascist powers, I do not believe that it makes much difference for the people involved who wins. The only difference is the difference between being shot and being hanged … Modern democracy is only Fascism in disguise. The liberties of the people are being constantly curtailed. The latest example is conscription in England. And, of course, the present preparation of another imperialistic war. The people always lose in such wars.”
Goldman believed that the successful eradication of fascism could only be achieved by the people themselves, and not by an external statist force such as an army. I’m inclined to agree with her – though for what it’s worth, I’m not particularly into vandalising statues myself. (Anyway, here’s an analysis of Anarchist opposition to wars and resistance in World War Two, which you might find interesting.)
But look all around us! Fascism is still very much here (even or perhaps “especially” in the UK) – it’s just being conducted in a less blatant, more cunning manner than Hitler’s approach to it – perhaps in part thanks to the advances of technology.
Did defeating Hitler eradicate fascism? Hardly!
On the surface, Britain is supposedly one of the most “free” countries on Earth. But look at what the state would like to get away with – and is often succeeding at almost unhindered. Just as Hitler gained dictatorial powers using largely legal means, the same is happening here today – just in smaller drips. Britain is perhaps the epitome of a modern fascist state – though of course, so effectively is it disguised that very few people would describe it as such!
Why bother with the dirty business of gassing people when you can control and tax them instead? Far more profitable and far less objectionable, as most people don’t even realise it’s going on, let alone that they are the ones doing it.
In our different roles in modern life, most people are both the oppressed and the oppressors, depending on context. That suits the state just fine, because most people are not prepared to fight against “themselves”, so the state generally wins easily.
Fascism doesn’t need to be as strong-arm in this day and age, and indeed, excessive strong-arm tactics have been it’s problem in the past. Modern fascism is generally far more cunning, and seems (to me at least) to work by co-opting and controlling by mind games and other tricks, rather than just marching in and controlling at gunpoint.
Of course, the heavy guns still come out when the mind games fail, but thanks to the mind games applied to the rest of society, they go relatively unnoticed.
Will we ever learn to recognise fascism properly, so we can eradicate it? I’m hopeful, but equally I’m not holding my breath! Many modern fascists and semi-fascists don’t even seem to realise that’s what they are.
It’s difficult enough to escape that even I (a self-professed anarchist, of the collectivist flavour of anarchism) am not 100% sure I’ve totally eradicated my own inner fascism. Is anyone? (I’ve encountered some remarkably fascist self-described “liberals” in my time, that’s for sure!)