Concerns over policing of climate camp
“An extension of police powers to stop and search anyone near a protest camp in Kent is undermining civil liberties, two MPs and an MEP have said. South East MEP Caroline Lucas and MPs Norman Baker and Colin Challen have written to the Kent force with concerns about the policing of the protest. The Climate Camp is opposing plans for a coal-fired power station near Hoo.”
Meanwhile, reader Dave S has sent us this video of police and protestors at the camp:
That brutality is…
a) not that all brutal
b) looking a bit staged.
Its all a bit monty python ‘HELP, I’M BEING OPPRESSED’
Rumbold: Thanks for posting this. I didn’t think you were going to.
Inders: Glad you find it funny, and I’m sure you’ll still be laughing about it when they’re doing the same to you for whatever views you happen to hold that the state disagrees with.
Oh hang on… the state doesn’t disagree with the view that climate change is a huge threat to our survival - in fact, it’s a proponent of that idea when it’s convenient to do so. It just doesn’t want anybody to actually have to do anything about it! Silly me!
Maybe you’re just one of those people who always agrees with the state? Or maybe you’ve just never taken a stand on anything in your life, and are never likely to either?
When state violence is used to protect corporate interests against democracy, then it is a textbook case of fascism. Please learn to recognise fascism when you see it - unless you like “suddenly” waking up in a totalitarian regime?
Congratulations to the police for shooting themselves in the foot so badly on this one. Because of your heavy-handedness and repression, you’ve just radicalised a whole generation of new activists in a matter of only a few days.
In fact, you’ve even managed to turn quite a few of the Kent locals dead against the police, and that’s no mean feat!
I’m now more sure than ever that there is at least some hope left for humanity.
At least those who aren’t remotely bothered about political policing of activists (aka. “ordinary people who actually care about something”) are never likely to do anything more confrontational than post ignorant comments on blogs.
“b) looking a bit staged.”
Because the police love to take part in performance theatre.
Ben
Why would the police stage it ?
I’m talking about the running commentary the ‘victims’ are yelling out.
Its hardly 1984 strikes is it.
“Maybe you’re just one of those people who always agrees with the state? Or maybe you’ve just never taken a stand on anything in your life, and are never likely to either?”
Yes, yes. The dumbing down of political advocates continues. Maybe I have my own thoughts and don’t let ‘right on’ people with overemotional arguments with no solutions swing my judgement. Maybe if you really wanted to know you’d try debating the points rather then question my intentions or character?
This is not brutal treatment of protesters.
Dave S (2) - With all due respect, are you taking the piss or is that serious?
‘When state violence is used to protect corporate interests against democracy, then it is a textbook case of fascism. Please learn to recognise fascism when you see it - unless you like “suddenly” waking up in a totalitarian regime?’
That is self-parody isn’t it? Good lord, you are a manifestation of the modren parents out of Viz.
Oh, there’s nothing ‘brutal’ in that video - sorry.
The police were heavy-handed. But this is not the video to show it. There’s other videos such as the one which was on the BBC site which showed some rough pushing and shoving by the police, with it appears little justification.
However, if somebody resists police orders, what are they to do? Just say, Ok! No probs!
“Help, I’m being oppressed!” does seem somewhat appropriate for those resisting police orders, then of so surprised when they are physically restrained and/or arrested.
The same law applies to everybody, whether you are at climate camp or not.
If you were there simply to protest at the coal fire station, then why are you deliberately provoking police by refusing compliance? How does that help the environment?
If it were me, I’d say “ok, no problem, I understand you have a job to do, I have nothing to hide, I am here in belief to save the environment”
It does annoy me when the environmental movement is hijacked by politicos, less interested in the environment more interested in making their political views known on socialism/anarchism/libertarianism or whatever their politico fetish.
I don’t think that the video shows police brutality. However, it does raise a number of questions:
1. Why are there so many police at a largely peaceful protest? Why not get them policing areas with high rates of crime, like town centres on Friday and Saturday nights? Why is preventing violence given a lower priority then the climate camp?
2. Under what powers at the police doing this? Are they abusing their powers under the anti-terrorism act 200 (especially section 44), which don’t require them to justify why they stopped and searched someone?
Get a grip. It’s not “brutal”. That’s the f**** problem with the parts of the left - hysteria! You destroy your own arguments by exaggerating and distorting the truth! Ala, 1 million iraqi children murdered by Bush’s lies … etc etc
You can say heavy-handed, over-the-top by all means…
Was that a response to moi, Marvin?
Nooo not you Rumbold, that’s for Maid Marian (brilliant show wasn’t it?) and Dave S.
Okay. Just checking.
I’m sorry but this video was funny! OOHHH the brutality!!!
I’m really starting to hate activists … they make the people who really would do something to make a difference get grouped in with wackos and ignored. I think they actually distract from the cause and discourage others from supporting.
“if it were me, I’d say “ok, no problem, I understand you have a job to do, I have nothing to hide, I am here in belief to save the environment”
I agree!
having a passion is a good thing …. but without nobility and respect, it turns into a joke.
Marvin (8/10) - Sorry if I am missing something really obvious here, but my exact comment at 5 was, ‘there’s nothing ‘brutal’ in that video.’
With the greatest of respect, what are you talking about?
No, MaidMarian, please accept my sincerest apologies! I have woken up with a pounding hangover and this Red Bull isn’t finishing itself…
A good of example of resisting unfair police actions
marvin (14) - Fair enough!
Oh, it was so perfectly, perfectly horrid. Those wicked brutal policemen. It reminded of Tiananmen Square. Injuries as dreadful as this may even require reiki or aromatherapy. And do you know what, that icon of the left, Arthur Scargill is in favour of building coal-fired power stations, the traitor! He says it is not only necessary because of our so-called “energy crisis”, but will provide work for those, now what do they call those grubby non-vegans who live on housing estates, aah, the working classes. One almost feels angry enough to hit him with ones bolt cutters. It’s a good job they’re in ones knapsack (£250 from Harvey Nicholls, you know) so one can’t reach them.
I wonder how many of the protestors, coming home after a hard day’s protesting, the first thing they did was put the kettle on and make a nice cup of tea? The fucking hypocrites.
The protesters were out to provoke a police response. As can be deduced by the little speech about stop and search in the first 10 seconds of the video. The police actually handled the situation quite well. I’d imagine the protesters were a little disappointed that a full scale confrontation did not occur.
The state are not imposing anything on anyone here. Just because you are forcibly removed from an area does not make you any more right, nor does it automatically entitle you to call yourself a victim. Why don’t these people, go home, get ‘actually’ politically active and try to come up with solutions instead of trying to manufacture publicity through stunts?
Inders @ 4:
No solutions? Perhaps if it wasn’t for the media black-hole surrounding what’s going on inside the camp this week, you’d know that there are six days of workshops about the solutions. As it is, much of the news coverage is just the police clutching at straws to smear the camp and scare the public.
I guess the irony of pandering to stereotypes about “right on” people on one hand while complaining of questioning your intentions or character on the other is lost on you?
If you have a point to debate, then debate it.
There are (apparently) something like 2000 people there, protesting about something very serious, and educating each other and the wider public about possible solutions to the problem. Do you have a better suggestion about what they should be doing?
If you say so, but plenty of the other clips (which have been on the mainstream news) show exactly that, and a lot of the non-protester eyewitnesses also confirm that is what has been happening.
You’re not there, and neither am I this year. But next week, I will be speaking to plenty of people who were there. Really nice people, who I’d trust with my life, who care and are passionate about solving problems, and actually just want to be able to get on and live their lives in peace.
Do you have a better suggestion about how to achieve this? Or should we just do what we’re told?
MaidMarian @ 5:
No, it’s paraphrasing of a quote which was allegedly said by Mussolini. I tend to think that Mussolini didn’t actually say that. However, it sums up pretty well what is going on down in Kent at the moment.
(Incidentally, when you’re setting out to belittle someone’s point, you needn’t worry about saying “with all due respect”.)
marvin @ 6:
So several thousand police go out and physically assault pro-hunting campaigners, do they?
Because being “compliant” with the police, or the state as a whole, will lead us directly into catastrophic climate change.
Can you not see that there are times when you absolutely should not do what you’re told?
Tell that to the Suffragettes, or to Ghandi, or the victims of the slave trade.
That is because you appear not to see that the environment is absolutely a political issue, and that many of the solutions are political ones. The problems are largely the same, and the solutions are largely the same too. Climate change is a socio-political disaster every bit as much as an environmental one.
Rumbold @ 7:
They’re doing it under Section 60, which basically means they can stop and search anyone without any grounds for suspicion of anything.
marvin @ 8:
So you don’t think 5 police dragging a woman to the ground is brutal? Or those same police holding a legal observer face down with their knees in his back?
OK then. I guess I’m just over-sensitive to physical violence. (Which is strange, because after quite a few years as a martial artist, you’d think that I’d have a good idea of where the line between reasonable and unreasonable force is drawn.)
I’m not defending “the left” here particularly, but “the right” are every bit as hysterical when it suits them. “Hysteria” is a convenient dodge for when you don’t want to listen to what someone has to say (and I freely admit that most of the time, I don’t want to listen to what the Daily Mail, for example, has to say).
Tu S. Tin @ 12:
Perhaps you are one of these people who “really would do something”, then?
What things would you have done to make a difference, if it wasn’t for something more pressing stopping you? (Gosh I hate it when that happens.)
Don’t you think the mass media has quite a large part to play in creating your perception of “wackos”?
Otherwise, you might see fit to extract yourself from the comfort of your home for long enough to become somebody who really would do something. If you didn’t have anything more important to do, that was.
But without action, passionate words turn into nothing.
Have a guess how many websites there are full of people “who really would do something to make a difference”, if only they could be arsed?
Trofim @ 17:
Are you under the impression that only those on “the left” care about the environment? I think you’d be gravely mistaken, if that was your view.
I’m a middle-class(-ish) non-vegan, and I know quite a few working class vegans.
Which only leads me to conclude yet again that those who really don’t have anything to add to any debate will just continue to reach for the low-hanging fruit like stereotypes and character assassinations, in order that they can excuse themselves from having to actually do anything.
Cabalamat @ 18:
Yeah, because every single protestor there is really saying that we have to eliminate every single last bit of CO2 emissions from our lives, aren’t they.
No, actually, they aren’t - not by a long way. But don’t let reality stand in the way of your presuppositions.
Inders @ 19:
Watch some of the other videos. The police have been attempting (and failing) to initiate a full-scale confrontation against peaceful protestors for days now. Or haven’t you seen them smashing people in the face with riot shields and batons, or arbitrarily pepper spraying?
Should people go along with an intimidatory (and quite likely illegal) stop and search just because the law makes excuses for it?
Do I even need to begin making a list of the number of times the law has been wrong in the past? Or are those carrying it out simply above question?
The state are imposing a new coal-fired powerstation on us, and therefore they are imposing catastrophic climate change on us. We will all be victims of that unless we do something about it - you included, whether you deny it or not.
How would you suggest people get “actually” politically active? Write a few letters to their “representatives”? Or perhaps form a political party and become the state themselves? (Because that’s an original tactic that’s never been tried before, isn’t it!)
Almost the entire camp is about solutions. Even if you disagree with those solutions, it’s a public, open camp, and you’d be welcome to have your say about whatever you think really needs to be done.
Do you have any “actual” solutions to offer, or are you just too “actually” politically active to have time to waste on that kind of thing?
I’ll be back tomorrow - off to do something “actually” politically active this evening rather than sitting on my arse complaining. (I’m working at an anti-BNP benefit gig, as it happens.)
Thought I’d share some insightful and eye-opening videos I’ve just found from the Climate Camp which won’t be shown on mainstream media. These are all fab films from the Climate Camp TV studio http://visionon.tv
http://blip.tv/file/get/Undercurrents-LegalObserversBlockedByPolice135.mp4
http://blip.tv/file/get/Undercurrents-LocalActivistsSupportClimateCamp192.mp4
http://blip.tv/file/get/Undercurrents-ClimateCampProtestIgnoresPoliceStopSearch856.mp4
http://blip.tv/file/get/Undercurrents-ArthurScargillOnTheRightToProtest461.mp4
http://blip.tv/file/get/Undercurrents-WhatDidThePoliceTakeFromYOU160.mp4
I showed an American friend this video, she laughed, she said they were so brutal, her shoe nearly fell off!
Come on. There actions are probably over the top. But brutal? Have you heard the quip about heaven, where the Police are British, the chefs are French etc?
In France, the CRS would have literally beat the shit out of them. In fact, I cannot think of another country where the all police wouldn’t have drawn their batons straight away.
“Direct action” very rarely actually furthers the cause of “saving the planet”.
For example, there are numerous reports of eco-warriors slashing tyres of Chelsea tractors. As a real environmentalist seemed to point out on the urban75 forum, what an idiotic thing to do. What’s the environmental cost of replacing 4 tyres per car slashed?
Get a grip lefties…
I know it’s not really fair but a part of me has the same reaction to things like this which is:
black and Asian people have been experiencing this and worse (1000 deaths in police custody, SUS laws etc) for 30 years or more. Why is it that it takes a bunch of [mostly] white protesters being treated badly for it become a big issue?
Dave S - ‘Incidentally, when you’re setting out to belittle someone’s point, you needn’t worry about saying “with all due respect”.’
Or maybe you could be less self-involved and take other people’s comments and the respect that they afford you at face value? Who knows, you may even get more sympathy for your cause?
If I were to try to belittle you I would say that this was a load of spin. But surely protestors don’t indulge in spin or act with one eye very firmly on whether they can get footage for the benefit of internet show and tell sessions.
the first thing they did was put the kettle on and make a nice cup of tea? The fucking hypocrites.
What kind of rubbish is this?
I find it really amusing that supposedly “progressive” people are dismissing this video as nothing major.
I was at Climate Camp last year and the police presence was enormous, and for no fucking reason. One media report by the Evening Standard said there was going to be potential terrorists there.
This time some police report went around saying the environmentalists were going to stab police horses (as if!) etc. This is a standard campaign of harassment by the police when British citizens should be perfectly allowed to protest as is their democratic right.
All these poncy middle class media commentators dismissing it have never seen the end of a police truncheon because they never protest against anything and are unlikely to - after all, the state doesn’t harass middle class people does it?
And when it does, they suddenly start wondering how the police got so heavy-handed and where they got all these powers from.
The answer is right in front of your eyes suckers.
Good on you for sending us this video Dave S.
Dave S - ‘Because being “compliant” with the police, or the state as a whole, will lead us directly into catastrophic climate change.’
So are you saying that you now trust the people to act as individuals in a way that will reverse global climate change? That is very wishful thinking.
To my mind that just does not wash. Increasingly I see environmentalism as ever less comfortable with democracy defined in contemporary liberal terms. The stark reality is that 40 years of protests have really failed - people think and talk a decent Green game, but their actions are a different story. If people really acted green there would be no need for this protest surely?
I suspect that if there is a solution to global warming it does not lie in harranging citizens. Though clearly you demur. The solution lies in a gargantuan R & D effort which will involve something akin to a war effort with all the state control that brings. It will probably mean soaking money off the taxpayer and also probably very high levels of compulsion to implement. It may well be green but it ain’t democratic in any real sense of the word.
I make no value judgement about this but to pretend that the Green dream will be achieved voluntarily is pie-in-the-sky and looking at your evident frustration is suspect that deep down you see the point.
Democracy has not been kind to environmentalism.
Sorry.
Sunny (25) - ‘All these poncy middle class media commentators dismissing it have never seen the end of a police truncheon because they never protest against anything and are unlikely to - after all, the state doesn’t harass middle class people does it?’
Hark at him!
Do you feel better for getting that off your chest?
LOL!
@25 Sunny: I find it really amusing that supposedly “progressive” people are dismissing this video as nothing major.
I’m not dismissing the video. If police are behaving in an illegal or overbearing way against peaceful protestors, then that’s wrong.
But, to address the more important issue of climate change, if existing power stations are shut down, or new ones not built, then there will be power cuts in the UK. A few years ago there was a big protest outside Drax, Britain’s biggest power station. If that had been closed down, as the protestors had wanted, it would have thrown Britain into chaos and inconvenienced millions.
To stabilise global carbon emissions, the UK govmt needs to do two things: tax emission-causing activity (such as burning coal or gas), and make sure (by diplomatic and trade policy) that other countries are also cutting emissions — there’s no point in Britain doing anything if China is building a new coal-fired power station every week.
Why is it that it takes a bunch of [mostly] white protesters being treated badly for it become a big issue?
Because when something affects the white middle-class left you never hear the end of it. Poor little rich kids being oppressed left right and centre!
There’s certainly different standards the police and authorities hold different groups of people to. In the 60’s through to 80’s, less so in the 90’s, they were often especially tough on blacks and asians as Leon said.
However, in recent years, there’s been changes in the other direction. Groups of Islamist nutters can scream to behead people on a London street, and the police will do diddly squat.
They’re tough on the white middle class kids cos they know they can. But the white middle class kids will moan and whinge about being oppressed till the cows come home. They love it. It’s like the Palestinian-Israeli conflict in miniature.
On a side note, with current Nu Lab thinking, if it were a grouping of brown people talking about their religion, the police would not have touched them with a barge pole. They allowed people to scream to behead people, and they did diddly squat.
I’m all for consistency. Treat groups of people the same under the law regardless of religion, colour or beliefs. And white-middle class socialist warriors, sons and daughters of millionaires, quit your bitching. Like Leon said, ethnic minorities have historically felt the thick end of the law on the heads for decades.
Some points I’d like to make, in bullet point fashion because I’m lazy.
> There’s no point whatsoever making this a race issue. In fact if bad treatment did occur it is made more likely if there’s white protesters rather then non-whites just for the sheer bad p.r. of white police man cracking Black/Asian skulls.
> Is this a freedom to protest post or a environmental one? Even if both are being discussed it is important to remember there is no cross over between the two.
> There is a difference between quite likely illegal searches and illegal ones. In both circumstances the best course of action is to submit for the moment and seek redress through the courts later.
> I’ve seen all the clips now. I still have not seen a case of police brutality. The activists are looking for it to further the emotional appeal of their cause. They should be looking for a more logical one that will appeal to the mainstream instead of attracting more nutters.
To my mind that just does not wash. Increasingly I see environmentalism as ever less comfortable with democracy defined in contemporary liberal terms. The stark reality is that 40 years of protests have really failed - people think and talk a decent Green game, but their actions are a different story. If people really acted green there would be no need for this protest surely?
Firstly, whats the evidence the greens are against liberal democracy? Mostly, they’re uncomfortable with a capitalist system that works towards depleting our natural resources.
Secondly, yes people are hypocritical about how green they really are. You’ve only just realised that people have lofty ambitions for themselves and society, but don’t follow through with their own actions? Welcome to reality pal.
I’m not dismissing the video. If police are behaving in an illegal or overbearing way against peaceful protestors, then that’s wrong.
Clearly you haven’t ever been to climate camp to realise how over-bearing they are. The police doesn’t have to break the law - they just have to make your life VERY DIFFICULT when you’re trying to do some legal. They don’t have to break any law, they just have to keep searching you under the increasing number of anti-social laws that keep getting passed through. Agitation against police over-bearance is part of any society that wants to remain liberal.
And lastly, I do find it VERY amusing that MaidMarian says environmentalists have a problem with a liberal democracy, when these people are the first to test and challenge excessive police powers.
I’m bloody sick of people making excuses for the police, especially when they haven’t been to a single worthwhile protest where the police doesn’t like what they’re doing.
I’ve been to worthwhile protests where the police have acted over the top. It’s frustrating. I’ve been close to making complaints but never followed through.
However, I have also seen people acting deliberately atagnonistic towards the Police. Police don’t like to be antagonised. They will react, and not in your favour. “Welcome to reality pal”
So two points, yes police are often heavy handed especially when the misunderstand the protest. (Unless their Islamist nutters, then they tend to steer well clear). This, somehow, needs to be addressed.
Secondly, antagonising or non-compliance with police orders is not on. If the police have acted inappropriately then you make a formal complaint. You can’t make excuses for breaking law & order (welll, unless a severe injustice as occurred). Being searched is NOT a severe injustice.
I think very few people would mistake me for an Islamist terrorist give my general appearance and attire yet I have been searched TWICE in London under the Terrorism act. Yes I was annoyed and frustated. Especially since they were almost certainly picking on me so as to not appear to be racially or religiously profiling in anyway. But I COMPLIED!
You can’t, in a reasonable liberal democracy, which, believe it or not we still live in, just disobey police orders even if they are inane or heavy handed. Simple as. Complain to politicians, complain to the police by all means. It will make YOU the better of the two.
First of all, thanks Dave S for your thorough response.
Maid @ 24
“for the benefit of internet show and tell sessions.”
Without revealing much about myself, let’s just say that I’ve been to some protests against the arms fair at the Excel Centre. I’ve been to some other stuff too. As far as I can recall, I don’t think activists I know of care much for shows and sessions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfsvAJAF6ro
Sunny @ 25
Good on you mate!
I’ve also seen 20+ police officers at rather relatively small London police station. They were assisting with the terrible crimes of those not having the correct tickets. What a f**** waste of time and resources. I’ve seen them swoop on pubs, like 30-40 for underage drinkers too. Talk about over the top. They’ve very heavy handed, often, with outdoor ravers too.
They’ve very heavy handed, often, with outdoor ravers too.
exactly! This is my point though, the police will attack and marginalise sub-cultures because the middle classes don’t give a crap. As long as the police is protecting their property and keeping crime away from their neighbourhood, who cares about civil liberties? Bring on the goddamn CCTV.
I’ve complied with the police loads of times on searches. I don’t deliberately create trouble. But when the police is there to deliberately harass you, especially at climate camp - why make life easier for them?
And then one day people will wake up and ask why they live in a database controlled state and how they got there.
I have to ask; what evidence do you have that those you claim are dismissing this have no experience of policing at a protest?
Sunny (32) - I first took an academic interest in New Social Movements in 1996 and have closely followed the academic literature for 12 years.
My conclusions are my own and I do not pretend otherwise, but that comment comes from 12 years of reading and thought on the matter.
Muhamad (34) - Bully for you!
Apologies for the further comment, but further to 38 (without wanting to prolong this).
My interest on New Social Movements, including the Greens has included going to protests.
Ok, maybe I got annoyed a bit earlier and snapped. But my point is, I’m unapologetic about the fact that greens are always harassed by the police and most people don’t give a crap. I remember a few years ago there was a bunch of people on a bus who were stopped and detained under terrorism legislation for no good reason, simply because they were on their way to a protest. It hardly made the news.
I don’t always agree with Dave S on his vision of the world, but I def share his concern about our eroding civil liberties, especially around the area of civil disobedience.
Sunny (40) - Nice comment. It’s nothing new. My grandad was involved in the unions. Though he retired before the mid 1980s strikes he remained involved and went on protests. Coachloads of miners were turned around by the police on the motorways. It barely made the news.
The civil liberties argument is nothing new at all - it has just been given an extra dimension by terror.
Best of luck to you.
Wow, progressive views on politics are getting pretty jaded these days….
The civil liberties argument may be nothing new, but the type of organisation in the global environmental/social justice movement is pretty new and exciting, given that it seems to really be a global, multi-racial, inclusive, truly grassroots movement uninterested in old style political organising and doctrine. I think it’s pretty powerful and exciting.
Anyone who has actually been to a climate camp might have seen something like it in action. It’s not always perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the tired old left/right story.
But then again, it might be a bit scary for those who prefer to only study politics in books and theorise rather than engage with it in their day-to-day lives. Or for those who are determined to think only in terms of left or right, middle class or working class, black or white, environment or social justice… etc, etc.
I spent most of Friday at Climate Camp, at the invitation of a friend involved in the camp. My visit was as a journalist come casual observer, though I have not been commissioned to cover the story.
Throughout the day I was identifiable as a media worker by the press card hung around my neck, and this led to some very interesting conversations with campers who approached me, keen to relate their thoughts on various issues. Unlike last year’s event at Heathrow, the Kingsnorth camp has been relatively media-friendly. I was allowed access to all but a few small areas of the site, and all without a camp PR minder.
I’ve put together my impressions of the day here.
There may be an element of “Look, I’m being oppressed!” on the part of some campers who had run-ins with one or more of the 1500 or so police officers drafted in from some 26 regional forces. But such criticism has no credibility when it comes from keyboard worriers in what to me is an increasingly reactionary blogosphere.
On Friday I was – like all Climate Campers and many journalists and other visitors – subject to repeated stops and searches sanctioned under Section 60 of Criminal Justice Act. The orders for this blanket approach are believed to have come direct from the Home Office, as was the multi-million pound funding for the police operation. This was most definitely political policing, designed to intimidate those taking part in Climate Camp, and those reporting on it from a non-hostile perspective. I know of two News International reporters who were allowed through police lines without being searched.
From what I could see with my own eyes, and what other credible sources told me, most individual police officers behaved properly when dealing with those detained at entrance points to the camp field, and the many roadblocks set up throughout the Hoo peninsula. However, the friend who invited me to Climate Camp was subject to considerable hassle on his first search, when he declined to give his name and address, as was his legal right. If I had not been there to observe this, who knows how much worse it would have been for my friend.
Over the past week there have been a small number of incidents in which police officers violently attacked campers. However, most of the problems with policing concern theft of personal property and criminal damage to vehicles by officers. Many of the less serious personal confrontations between campers and police could be attributed to provocation from young, inexperienced, aggressive and not particularly bright officers.
On the larger scale there was also much of what could be called “psychological operations” on the part of the police. There were, for example, tales spread by Kent Police of diarrhoea outbreaks, when the reality was that no more than two or three cases of the runs were treated each day by camp medics. This, in a camp population of around 1500. I could not help but be impressed with the level of organisation in the camp, and I’ve never before seen so much vigourous hand-washing in one place!
There were also reported “weapons caches” that turned out to be blocks of kitchen knives used to chop up the tonnes of vegetables brought in to feed the multitude, helicopters buzzing the site at times coincident with major camp meetings and press conferences, and more. The charge sheet is long.
I must say that I personally experienced worse in the 1980s peace movement, with frequent violent assaults from police and military personnel, junior officers forced by superiors to perjure themselves in court, and documents that must have been forged by the intelligence services. But the behaviour of the state at Kingsnorth has been appalling, and I would hope that at least some of this is challenged in court.
While critical of some of the politics of the Climate Camp community, I have at the same time an enormous amount of respect for these people. Those commenting here who agree with the sentiment that Climate Campers should “go home, get ‘actually’ politically active and try to come up with solutions instead of trying to manufacture publicity through stunts?” should instead examine their own behaviour and conscience.
Climate Camp members are highly-active political animals. Can the same be said of political bloggers? In very many cases, no, they are not. Political blogging has its place, but only in addition to getting out into the world and actually doing stuff.
Publicity is central to mass political action, and high-profile direct action stunts such as we have seen at Kingsnorth play a valuable role. This kind of political action gets ordinary, non-political people thinking about the issues involved, and it stimulates public debate at many levels.
I would regard this year’s Climate Camp as a tremendous success, and I applaud those who took part in it.
Good point Francis.
I don’t want to get in to the discussion of what happened, because I was not there and a few film clips may or may not be representative.
However, I would like to know whether there is a country in the world, where the police do not from time to time harass innocent people? I don’t condone this kind of behaviour.
I am interested in why it happens, because that’s the first step to stopping it. Are there times when the police is specifically ordered to rough people up?
Interestingly, Francis Sedgemore writes that:
`This was most definitely political policing, designed to intimidate those taking part in Climate Camp, and those reporting on it from a non-hostile perspective.’
If so, then it would be good to expose the people giving the orders. How can that be done?
Of course, even with specific orders, police officers will sometimes behave badly — some people just enjoy violence.
Katy (42) - ‘but the type of organisation in the global environmental/social justice movement is pretty new and exciting’
Out of pure interest when would you date the beginnings of such a movement?
Francis Sedgemore (43) - ‘This kind of political action gets ordinary, non-political people thinking about the issues involved, and it stimulates public debate at many levels.’
Well, yes I don’t doubt the truth of that. But by that token having the public think about issues and stimulating debate is surely pretty thin gruel? People can debate it all they like, they are either driving to the airport, flying off to the Med and demanding energy from a coal fired power station or they are not. Whether they are debating the merits of the issue as they do so seems a bit beside the point.
This is my issue with the manufactured publicity stunts. I do not question for a second that most activists are highly political animals (far from it). What I am questioning is whether their politics are actually effective. Politics is the art of the possible, what I see on the part of these climate/environmental groups is an ever greater tendency to preach to the converted. Politics is about what is possible in the wider society, not just a society of the converted.
You probably feel I have too much faith in ‘conventional’ politics and you may well be right. But the politics of this protest are very low impact - whatever the visibility.
“But the politics of this protest are very low impact - whatever the visibility.”
From the politics of protest was modern democracy born. And the politics of protest will be what saves it.
Francis Sedgemore (48) - Out of pure interest.
Do you think that what you term modern democracy can ever be really and truly ‘green?’
“Do you think that what you term modern democracy can ever be really and truly ‘green?’”
That’s a non-question, driven in part, I suspect, by the “eco-fascist” insult levelled by some self-professed defenders of modernity against environmental activists as a whole.
Society will be green when individuals, corporations and governments act with environmental responsibility. One can envisage “green” democracies, just as one could imagine “green” police states. As a libertarian of the left my own ideological prejudice should be clear enough.
Those who say that some in the Climate Camp community have an agenda wider than opposition to anthropogenic climate change are absolutely correct. And therein lies the movement’s strength. You do not have to accept the entire package, and many of the 1500 souls who last week camped out by Dux Court Road can in no way be described as yoghurt knitters sporting matty dreads. But the fact that many of them do buy into the counter-culture did not, it appear, deter local residents of the Hoo peninsula and other loyal “citizens of Rome” with whom they came into contact.
Climate Camp - creative, open, well-planned, well-argued
The UK state and its hangers-on - intellectual necrosis writ large
Francis Sedgemore (50) - It is an interesting reply. Thank you.
Ffyc off, I’m not that old!
MaidMarian: just a quick note to say that I’ve got too much work today to reply, but I shall be doing so- perhaps tomorrow.
Thank you Francis for your very well argued replies. I’m afraid I have let my passion cloud my ability to argue without getting snide…
Dave
Perhaps you are one of these people who “really would do something”, then?
If I can thank PP for anything, it is for at last giving me a clear definition of the term “left”.
And as someone standing in the middle I say yes I am one of the people doing something .. first off by taking the time to look at things from all sides … how do you get a clear view from any where else? if you want a more detailed list I would be more than happy. I don’t think it’s the media who gave me an impression .. I think its the wackos themselves, from personal experience mostly. I am very passionate about life the universe and everything… but there is a such thing as blind passion. They have a right to protest, but not the right to glue themselves to the front door of a building! What do these people want, and I can’t believe anything would make them happy! why do I say that? because question their ( or just about any other group of “activists”) thoughts and actions and they just get furious! ? How do we live in a world without energy? This plant will give power to a million people, we do not live in the dark ages anymore and the government is not trying to kill us! They say “clean coal is science fiction” …. maybe living in the “green world” they envision is too … but that doesn’t mean things can’t and won’t keep getting better, but things can’t change over night and that goes for all it’s problems!
I do not think this video shows any brutality.
As for other things that have been said here .. I do not agree with everything done by police, I just don’t know the answer, or at least one that applies to everything.
Straw man alert…really tired of these smears.
“Straw man alert…really tired of these smears.”
Well go and get some kip; I’m sure you’ll feel much better for it.
Francis Sedgemore @ 43 “subject to considerable hassle on his first search, when he declined to give his name and address, as was his legal right.”
Whether one gives or doesn’t give one’s name and address, it isn’t just your friend with such an experience. The police hassle you regardless.
Harry @ 45 “expose the people giving the orders”.
As is evident from one of the clips, the police, as a matter of policy, aren’t that keen on divulging…perhaps you can help.
Oh dear, I’ve seen some real arseholes online in my time but none as skilful as you. ;D
Leon, I think Sedgemore might be Scottish, and what he means by “kip” is a bed.
Having lived in Scotland I’m aware of what the lingo means ya ken?
Zarrafakt?
“From the politics of protest was modern democracy born. And the politics of protest will be what saves it.”
Quantify and qualify.
Otherwise its just a sound bite.
Inders @ 62, are you being deliberately obtuse, or just ignorant?
The Magna Carta was sealed by King John at Runnymede in 1215 because of a particularly effective piece of direct action by some disgruntled barons!
‘Nuff said!
Though of course we could mention the Chartists, Suffragists and Suffragettes too, and that’s before we even go outside of Britain.
Ever heard of Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi?
Sheesh!
“Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.”
(Do you want me to qualify that one as well?)
Maid Marian:
Hi, sorry to not have got back to you before. I’m due to give birth any day now and am a bit preoccupied to be able to give a proper response to your question.
I’m certainly no expert on political and social movements, but my opinion is based on a randon mix of personal experience, articles and publications here and there (i.e New Internationalist) and books. If you haven’t already read it, I recommend ‘One no, many yesses’ by Paul Kingsnorth.
Seeing as I’m not an official researcher of socio-political movements, I couldn’t say when exactly this movement started, but I don’t actually think it started at any particular time, given that it is so worldwide and multi dimentional.