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	<title>Comments on: Contraception and climate change</title>
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	<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212</link>
	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: jungle</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126299</link>
		<dc:creator>jungle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126299</guid>
		<description>The reason the left have been hostile to talking about population as a &quot;problem&quot; over the years is that it has historically been repeatedly used to unjustly blame all environmental and food supply issues on first the local poor and then the foreign poor, since they have the highest birth rates - despite the reality that they consume a tiny minority of the resources. (As the previous commenter&#039;s absurd rant amply demonstrates...)

Even now, many wrongly believe that there would be no food crisis anywhere if only those Africans would stop having so many babies, and that for that reason famines they suffer are fundamentally &quot;all their own fault&quot;; of course actually the reason they have no food is because the international market puts a vastly greater value on food for my cat than food for the average Somalian.

The Optimum Population Trust talk a lot of pseudo-science about maximum yields from fertile soil. I&#039;ve been to one of their talks and about half of it consisted of a list of assumptions for their agricultural calculations, 95% of the assumptions totally unrealistic and verging on the absurd. From this they &quot;calculate&quot; that the &quot;optimum population&quot; for X or Y country is a fixed figure much lower than it is now, and suggest that all would be utopia if this decrease were achieved.

Yes, population is an issue. But the fundamental problem that the OPT miss is that population and consumption per head are linked - backwards. To put it simply: if the population were smaller, there would be less people to consume oil, the market price of oil would be lower, and so each person would very likely just consume more of it - more holidays, bigger cars, more imported goods, less incentive to be efficient.

The capitalist economy&#039;s ability to increase consumption per head to fit the size of the resources that person can afford is incredible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason the left have been hostile to talking about population as a &#8220;problem&#8221; over the years is that it has historically been repeatedly used to unjustly blame all environmental and food supply issues on first the local poor and then the foreign poor, since they have the highest birth rates &#8211; despite the reality that they consume a tiny minority of the resources. (As the previous commenter&#8217;s absurd rant amply demonstrates&#8230;)</p>
<p>Even now, many wrongly believe that there would be no food crisis anywhere if only those Africans would stop having so many babies, and that for that reason famines they suffer are fundamentally &#8220;all their own fault&#8221;; of course actually the reason they have no food is because the international market puts a vastly greater value on food for my cat than food for the average Somalian.</p>
<p>The Optimum Population Trust talk a lot of pseudo-science about maximum yields from fertile soil. I&#8217;ve been to one of their talks and about half of it consisted of a list of assumptions for their agricultural calculations, 95% of the assumptions totally unrealistic and verging on the absurd. From this they &#8220;calculate&#8221; that the &#8220;optimum population&#8221; for X or Y country is a fixed figure much lower than it is now, and suggest that all would be utopia if this decrease were achieved.</p>
<p>Yes, population is an issue. But the fundamental problem that the OPT miss is that population and consumption per head are linked &#8211; backwards. To put it simply: if the population were smaller, there would be less people to consume oil, the market price of oil would be lower, and so each person would very likely just consume more of it &#8211; more holidays, bigger cars, more imported goods, less incentive to be efficient.</p>
<p>The capitalist economy&#8217;s ability to increase consumption per head to fit the size of the resources that person can afford is incredible.</p>
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		<title>By: Trofim</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126203</link>
		<dc:creator>Trofim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 08:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126203</guid>
		<description>You probably donâ€™t remember Ala, but talking about population control hasnâ€™t always been taboo, and I remember it well because I was born in 1947. The early sixties were full of anxiety about the worldâ€™s outstanding problem, of population proliferation, long before the idea of global warming had become fashionable. However, in the late 1960â€™s and the 1970â€™s a new feeling started to enter our awareness, that it was somehow, not quite nice, to be critical of the behaviour, culture and ideas of  people who didnâ€™t have â€œwhiteâ€ (ie. pinkish) skin. This morphed into another idea, that people with white skin were imperialists and colonialists, non-white people were their victims, all the worldâ€™s problems were essentially due to white people, and that therefore white people had even less moral right to be advising non-white people on their behaviour. We know the rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You probably donâ€™t remember Ala, but talking about population control hasnâ€™t always been taboo, and I remember it well because I was born in 1947. The early sixties were full of anxiety about the worldâ€™s outstanding problem, of population proliferation, long before the idea of global warming had become fashionable. However, in the late 1960â€™s and the 1970â€™s a new feeling started to enter our awareness, that it was somehow, not quite nice, to be critical of the behaviour, culture and ideas of  people who didnâ€™t have â€œwhiteâ€ (ie. pinkish) skin. This morphed into another idea, that people with white skin were imperialists and colonialists, non-white people were their victims, all the worldâ€™s problems were essentially due to white people, and that therefore white people had even less moral right to be advising non-white people on their behaviour. We know the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Worstall</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126114</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Worstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126114</guid>
		<description>&quot;which is rising exponentially,&quot;

It is? Someone had better tell the UN pretty quickly then. They are saying that the rate of increase is slowing and that the growth itself will reverse around 2050.

Whatever that is, it really ain&#039;t &quot;exponentially&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;which is rising exponentially,&#8221;</p>
<p>It is? Someone had better tell the UN pretty quickly then. They are saying that the rate of increase is slowing and that the growth itself will reverse around 2050.</p>
<p>Whatever that is, it really ain&#8217;t &#8220;exponentially&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: QuestionThat</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126108</link>
		<dc:creator>QuestionThat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126108</guid>
		<description>Uh-uh.

If we don&#039;t confront and slap down fanatical authoritarian nutcases whenever they pop up we might &lt;i&gt;&quot;very well see a future of forced family planning, Malthusian drills and Brave New World dystopias.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh-uh.</p>
<p>If we don&#8217;t confront and slap down fanatical authoritarian nutcases whenever they pop up we might <i>&#8220;very well see a future of forced family planning, Malthusian drills and Brave New World dystopias.&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>By: MaidMarian</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126091</link>
		<dc:creator>MaidMarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 07:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126091</guid>
		<description>I always wonder when I see an article like this why no mention of China and one-child.  Population control is great, but it needs a society like China to make it at all real.

I will leave it to others to dwell on whether or not China&#039;s exponential growth in emissions and the like suggests that the link between population control and environmenalism is less strong than some suggest.

On a separate point, &#039;the authors just wanted to discuss the possiblity of making contraception more avalible.&#039;  I think that they need to take that up with the church rather than the BMJ&#039;s readership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always wonder when I see an article like this why no mention of China and one-child.  Population control is great, but it needs a society like China to make it at all real.</p>
<p>I will leave it to others to dwell on whether or not China&#8217;s exponential growth in emissions and the like suggests that the link between population control and environmenalism is less strong than some suggest.</p>
<p>On a separate point, &#8216;the authors just wanted to discuss the possiblity of making contraception more avalible.&#8217;  I think that they need to take that up with the church rather than the BMJ&#8217;s readership.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave S</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126080</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126080</guid>
		<description>Of course, there&#039;s nothing that says a baby born in the UK &lt;em&gt;has&lt;/em&gt; to be responsible for 160 times the emissions of one born in Ethiopia.

With the right education and outlook on life inspiring the next generation on to positive change, I hope that we can turn it around and maybe even produce children who&#039;s actions in life cause net &lt;em&gt;consumption&lt;/em&gt; of CO2 rather than net build-up of it.

We can go way beyond just carbon-neutral lifestyles to actual carbon-negative ones; to remove CO2 from the atmosphere and return it to a safe level again. It can be done, and action in that direction needs to happen here more urgently than it needs to happen in Ethiopia.

I&#039;m about to become a dad in something like three weeks time. Sure, the two of us are not going to be having more than two children. I&#039;m pretty convinced by the idea of aiming for zero population growth, though I also believe that the world could easily support more people if we actually shared resources fairly.

But the point is: more people doesn&#039;t necessarily have to mean more CO2 emissions - it could actually mean &lt;strong&gt;much less&lt;/strong&gt;, if we make a concerted effort to do it right and to &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; change the way we live.

In my opinion, pushing for massive social change to prevent climate change is the most important step. That means changing society right the way through, so that we just bloody well stop doing things which damage the Earth! (It ain&#039;t rocket science! This is our home we&#039;re destroying!)

Then changing our individual lifestyles, because individual changes don&#039;t mean much without significant numbers of people doing them.

But as I&#039;ve said before, the biggest hurdle is one of mindset.

Does human existence &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; have to damage the Earth? &lt;strong&gt;Absolutely not!&lt;/strong&gt; Despite our attempts to escape from nature, we are as integral a part of the Earth&#039;s ecosystems as the birds and the bees.

As self-aware sentient beings, we &lt;strong&gt;can&lt;/strong&gt; make the choice to become positive contributors to the ecosystem we live in, rather than destroying it.

In all honesty, I believe it&#039;s as clear-cut as: choose not to damage the Earth, or perish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, there&#8217;s nothing that says a baby born in the UK <em>has</em> to be responsible for 160 times the emissions of one born in Ethiopia.</p>
<p>With the right education and outlook on life inspiring the next generation on to positive change, I hope that we can turn it around and maybe even produce children who&#8217;s actions in life cause net <em>consumption</em> of CO2 rather than net build-up of it.</p>
<p>We can go way beyond just carbon-neutral lifestyles to actual carbon-negative ones; to remove CO2 from the atmosphere and return it to a safe level again. It can be done, and action in that direction needs to happen here more urgently than it needs to happen in Ethiopia.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m about to become a dad in something like three weeks time. Sure, the two of us are not going to be having more than two children. I&#8217;m pretty convinced by the idea of aiming for zero population growth, though I also believe that the world could easily support more people if we actually shared resources fairly.</p>
<p>But the point is: more people doesn&#8217;t necessarily have to mean more CO2 emissions &#8211; it could actually mean <strong>much less</strong>, if we make a concerted effort to do it right and to <em>really</em> change the way we live.</p>
<p>In my opinion, pushing for massive social change to prevent climate change is the most important step. That means changing society right the way through, so that we just bloody well stop doing things which damage the Earth! (It ain&#8217;t rocket science! This is our home we&#8217;re destroying!)</p>
<p>Then changing our individual lifestyles, because individual changes don&#8217;t mean much without significant numbers of people doing them.</p>
<p>But as I&#8217;ve said before, the biggest hurdle is one of mindset.</p>
<p>Does human existence <em>really</em> have to damage the Earth? <strong>Absolutely not!</strong> Despite our attempts to escape from nature, we are as integral a part of the Earth&#8217;s ecosystems as the birds and the bees.</p>
<p>As self-aware sentient beings, we <strong>can</strong> make the choice to become positive contributors to the ecosystem we live in, rather than destroying it.</p>
<p>In all honesty, I believe it&#8217;s as clear-cut as: choose not to damage the Earth, or perish.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126076</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126076</guid>
		<description>Well, universal contraception and lots of education. Notyhing better than education and loads of 9-5 to drive the population growth levels right down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, universal contraception and lots of education. Notyhing better than education and loads of 9-5 to drive the population growth levels right down.</p>
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		<title>By: Elle</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126074</link>
		<dc:creator>Elle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126074</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s also worth thinking about how your actual contraception affects climate change. Obviously, it is a minor impact compared to that of an additional human consumer, however consider the waste implications of your choices, some are far &#039;greener&#039; than others!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s also worth thinking about how your actual contraception affects climate change. Obviously, it is a minor impact compared to that of an additional human consumer, however consider the waste implications of your choices, some are far &#8216;greener&#8217; than others!</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2212#comment-126037</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2212#comment-126037</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; it might get them to think again about popping them out.&lt;/i&gt;

It was a good article, but you may have missed the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> it might get them to think again about popping them out.</i></p>
<p>It was a good article, but you may have missed the point.</p>
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