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	<title>Comments on: Council ban on atheist websites</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199</link>
	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Gibs</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125957</link>
		<dc:creator>Gibs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 15:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125957</guid>
		<description>#20. I agree that saying that said council &quot;actively promotes honour killings&quot; is taking it a tad too far.

However, i bet there are dozens of(mostly Asian) councillors up and down the land who will try and deny that honour killings are a serious problem (just as there are people who claim that the holocaust never happened).

Unfortunately however, whilst &quot;holocaust deniers&quot; are generally regarded as being &quot;nuts&quot;, comments by &quot;honour killing deniers&quot; are often not challenged/ridiculed aggressively enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20. I agree that saying that said council &#8220;actively promotes honour killings&#8221; is taking it a tad too far.</p>
<p>However, i bet there are dozens of(mostly Asian) councillors up and down the land who will try and deny that honour killings are a serious problem (just as there are people who claim that the holocaust never happened).</p>
<p>Unfortunately however, whilst &#8220;holocaust deniers&#8221; are generally regarded as being &#8220;nuts&#8221;, comments by &#8220;honour killing deniers&#8221; are often not challenged/ridiculed aggressively enough.</p>
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		<title>By: bananabrain</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125852</link>
		<dc:creator>bananabrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125852</guid>
		<description>avi,

i&#039;m not interested in getting your ip address - i was asking the moderators to confirm something. i simply wanted to know why it was that suddenly a bunch of people who wrote like you, punctuated like you and shared your opinions popped up to support you. since i asked the question, i note none of them have returned. i draw my own conclusions - there is no need for me to &quot;police&quot; anything.

the number of jews i have met - and i know a *lot* of people - that thought and wrote like you i could count on the fingers of one hand, although they are commonplace in extreme groups like &quot;jews for justice for palestinians&quot; and notably absent in groups like &quot;alif-aleph&quot;. on the other hand, your opinions are entirely consistent with those of the sort of person that pretends to be jewish online because they think that that way they will be allowed to make criticism of jews and israel that they wouldn&#039;t be allowed to if they weren&#039;t jewish. which, of course, is only another version of the unjustified complaint that &quot;jews get special treatment&quot;, heard most often from the sort of groups that think they ought to get special treatment. either way, the criticism should be judged on its own merits, not the origins of the poster. i should say that i am not 100% sure that this is what is going on here, but i&#039;m clearly not the only one who thinks so. the whole thing smacks of the assumption that jews are going to scream &quot;anti-semitism!&quot; and attempt to restrict debate and that gets right up my nose, as as far as i am aware, i do neither.

all you&#039;re doing right now, though, is hijacking the thread, so stop it. i am not your employer, nor is it my business how you spend your time. this &quot;policeman&quot; thing is almost as boring and irrelevant as the &quot;poster girl&quot; thing and i think you&#039;re taking our &quot;relationship&quot; a little too seriously here. it&#039;s only a blog, for feck&#039;s sake.

b&#039;shalom

bananabrain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>avi,</p>
<p>i&#8217;m not interested in getting your ip address &#8211; i was asking the moderators to confirm something. i simply wanted to know why it was that suddenly a bunch of people who wrote like you, punctuated like you and shared your opinions popped up to support you. since i asked the question, i note none of them have returned. i draw my own conclusions &#8211; there is no need for me to &#8220;police&#8221; anything.</p>
<p>the number of jews i have met &#8211; and i know a *lot* of people &#8211; that thought and wrote like you i could count on the fingers of one hand, although they are commonplace in extreme groups like &#8220;jews for justice for palestinians&#8221; and notably absent in groups like &#8220;alif-aleph&#8221;. on the other hand, your opinions are entirely consistent with those of the sort of person that pretends to be jewish online because they think that that way they will be allowed to make criticism of jews and israel that they wouldn&#8217;t be allowed to if they weren&#8217;t jewish. which, of course, is only another version of the unjustified complaint that &#8220;jews get special treatment&#8221;, heard most often from the sort of groups that think they ought to get special treatment. either way, the criticism should be judged on its own merits, not the origins of the poster. i should say that i am not 100% sure that this is what is going on here, but i&#8217;m clearly not the only one who thinks so. the whole thing smacks of the assumption that jews are going to scream &#8220;anti-semitism!&#8221; and attempt to restrict debate and that gets right up my nose, as as far as i am aware, i do neither.</p>
<p>all you&#8217;re doing right now, though, is hijacking the thread, so stop it. i am not your employer, nor is it my business how you spend your time. this &#8220;policeman&#8221; thing is almost as boring and irrelevant as the &#8220;poster girl&#8221; thing and i think you&#8217;re taking our &#8220;relationship&#8221; a little too seriously here. it&#8217;s only a blog, for feck&#8217;s sake.</p>
<p>b&#8217;shalom</p>
<p>bananabrain</p>
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		<title>By: Golam Murtaza</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125736</link>
		<dc:creator>Golam Murtaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125736</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d still like to see the evidence that clearly shows Birmingham City Council &#039;actively promotes&#039; honour killings.  Guess I&#039;ll be waiting a while for that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d still like to see the evidence that clearly shows Birmingham City Council &#8216;actively promotes&#8217; honour killings.  Guess I&#8217;ll be waiting a while for that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125735</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125735</guid>
		<description>Ravi,

Naw. The whole bloody lot of them should be getting on with their jobs and not surfing the internet. If someone needs to access sites, like Shuggy up thread, then they should be given access, I&#039;ve no problem with that. But otherwise, it&#039;s just cheating on your employer, whether it&#039;s religious, atheist or Satanist sites. It would support an arguement that Local Government is a tad over resourced, would it not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ravi,</p>
<p>Naw. The whole bloody lot of them should be getting on with their jobs and not surfing the internet. If someone needs to access sites, like Shuggy up thread, then they should be given access, I&#8217;ve no problem with that. But otherwise, it&#8217;s just cheating on your employer, whether it&#8217;s religious, atheist or Satanist sites. It would support an arguement that Local Government is a tad over resourced, would it not?</p>
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		<title>By: Ravi Naik</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125732</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravi Naik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125732</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So us atheists are no better than sexual deviants and Satanists according to Birmingham City Council?!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What makes you - as atheists - better than &quot;sexual deviants&quot; and &quot;Satanists&quot;? The real question is what makes believers better than atheists. It is outrageous that such censorship still exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So us atheists are no better than sexual deviants and Satanists according to Birmingham City Council?!</p></blockquote>
<p>What makes you &#8211; as atheists &#8211; better than &#8220;sexual deviants&#8221; and &#8220;Satanists&#8221;? The real question is what makes believers better than atheists. It is outrageous that such censorship still exists.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125722</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125722</guid>
		<description>Speaking relative to fairness, forbidding access to spiritual websites requires equal treatment across the board. There&#039;s also the matter of the council member&#039;s reason for being such if not to carry on the business of city council and not engage in surfing unrelated to such.  The question might also be posed - is the surfer devoting equal or more time to this activity off the job or is it only at work?  Considering 1/3 of the person&#039;s day is employment, should he or she not be giving a day&#039;s work for a day&#039;s wages - possibly a better &quot;witness&quot; to an employer than robbing him by surfing and other extra-curricular activities?  Oh yes, I&#039;m a Christian. Dave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking relative to fairness, forbidding access to spiritual websites requires equal treatment across the board. There&#8217;s also the matter of the council member&#8217;s reason for being such if not to carry on the business of city council and not engage in surfing unrelated to such.  The question might also be posed &#8211; is the surfer devoting equal or more time to this activity off the job or is it only at work?  Considering 1/3 of the person&#8217;s day is employment, should he or she not be giving a day&#8217;s work for a day&#8217;s wages &#8211; possibly a better &#8220;witness&#8221; to an employer than robbing him by surfing and other extra-curricular activities?  Oh yes, I&#8217;m a Christian. Dave.</p>
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		<title>By: Mangles</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125710</link>
		<dc:creator>Mangles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125710</guid>
		<description>&#039;So us atheists are no better than sexual deviants and Satanists according to Birmingham City Council?!&#039;

Need you ask ? lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;So us atheists are no better than sexual deviants and Satanists according to Birmingham City Council?!&#8217;</p>
<p>Need you ask ? lol</p>
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		<title>By: Shuggy</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125708</link>
		<dc:creator>Shuggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125708</guid>
		<description>Hmph!  That&#039;s nothing.  Googled &#039;The Rise of Hitler&#039; in school.  The first link I clicked on was blocked by &#039;Websense&#039;.  Category?  &#039;Racism/Hate&#039;.  I&#039;m a fucking history teacher, for chrissake!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmph!  That&#8217;s nothing.  Googled &#8216;The Rise of Hitler&#8217; in school.  The first link I clicked on was blocked by &#8216;Websense&#8217;.  Category?  &#8216;Racism/Hate&#8217;.  I&#8217;m a fucking history teacher, for chrissake!</p>
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		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125705</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125705</guid>
		<description>Leon,

I agree with you that it appears bigoted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leon,</p>
<p>I agree with you that it appears bigoted.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125704</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125704</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Though the discrimination here is obviously wrong, it is not clear that the answer is to widen access&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not arguing it should be widened just that it shouldn&#039;t be bigoted like it appears to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Though the discrimination here is obviously wrong, it is not clear that the answer is to widen access</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not arguing it should be widened just that it shouldn&#8217;t be bigoted like it appears to be.</p>
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		<title>By: sonia</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125672</link>
		<dc:creator>sonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125672</guid>
		<description>Ridiculous, (does that mean they will have to block PP as we discuss atheism quite a lot!) but this is part of the wider control issue of employers thinking they can restrict employees access to information on the internet and basically having that authoritarian hold over them. 

Its time we stopped being &#039;employees&#039; which appears to be still synonymous with &#039;slaves&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ridiculous, (does that mean they will have to block PP as we discuss atheism quite a lot!) but this is part of the wider control issue of employers thinking they can restrict employees access to information on the internet and basically having that authoritarian hold over them. </p>
<p>Its time we stopped being &#8216;employees&#8217; which appears to be still synonymous with &#8216;slaves&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: persephone</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125669</link>
		<dc:creator>persephone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125669</guid>
		<description>not clear from the link if it is the Council that has stated / decided which sites are blocked. Sometimes the way the s/w is programmed to block the undesired sites it also blocks other harmless sites. To tailor such s/w then costs alot of money</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not clear from the link if it is the Council that has stated / decided which sites are blocked. Sometimes the way the s/w is programmed to block the undesired sites it also blocks other harmless sites. To tailor such s/w then costs alot of money</p>
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		<title>By: Avi Cohen</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125664</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125664</guid>
		<description>BananaPoliceman - &quot;this is 1000% discriminatory. and how, precisely, do they define what constitutes an â€œatheistâ€ site?? this is soooo not their job to get involved in.&quot;

I see but its ok for you to question people&#039;s Jewishness? It is ok for you to ask for ip addresses.

Practise what you preach mate!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BananaPoliceman &#8211; &#8220;this is 1000% discriminatory. and how, precisely, do they define what constitutes an â€œatheistâ€ site?? this is soooo not their job to get involved in.&#8221;</p>
<p>I see but its ok for you to question people&#8217;s Jewishness? It is ok for you to ask for ip addresses.</p>
<p>Practise what you preach mate!</p>
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		<title>By: Sid</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125658</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125658</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;So us atheists are no better than sexual deviants and Satanists according to Birmingham City Council?!&lt;/em&gt;

t&#039;was ever thus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>So us atheists are no better than sexual deviants and Satanists according to Birmingham City Council?!</em></p>
<p>t&#8217;was ever thus.</p>
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		<title>By: bananabrain</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125655</link>
		<dc:creator>bananabrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125655</guid>
		<description>i&#039;d be interested to know how they&#039;re going to ban mysticism without banning the rest of religion. what a load of arbitrary crap and, moreover, how dare they imply that any of these things (from atheism to witchcraft) are incompatible with being a council worker?? neo-pagans are entitled to chaplains in prison and in the armed services - this is 1000% discriminatory. and how, precisely, do they define what constitutes an &quot;atheist&quot; site?? this is soooo not their job to get involved in.

b&#039;shalom

bananabrain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;d be interested to know how they&#8217;re going to ban mysticism without banning the rest of religion. what a load of arbitrary crap and, moreover, how dare they imply that any of these things (from atheism to witchcraft) are incompatible with being a council worker?? neo-pagans are entitled to chaplains in prison and in the armed services &#8211; this is 1000% discriminatory. and how, precisely, do they define what constitutes an &#8220;atheist&#8221; site?? this is soooo not their job to get involved in.</p>
<p>b&#8217;shalom</p>
<p>bananabrain</p>
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		<title>By: Golam Murtaza</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125612</link>
		<dc:creator>Golam Murtaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125612</guid>
		<description>So, Birmingham City Council &#039;actively promotes&#039; honour killings, does it?  I&#039;d be interested to see your evidence for that accusation, &#039;Silent Hunter&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Birmingham City Council &#8216;actively promotes&#8217; honour killings, does it?  I&#8217;d be interested to see your evidence for that accusation, &#8216;Silent Hunter&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125609</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125609</guid>
		<description>Err...

Councils employ folk to do work. Not to surf the internet at taxpayers expense, except when it is work related. Though the discrimination here is obviously wrong, it is not clear that the answer is to widen access, it is rather to narrow it even further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Err&#8230;</p>
<p>Councils employ folk to do work. Not to surf the internet at taxpayers expense, except when it is work related. Though the discrimination here is obviously wrong, it is not clear that the answer is to widen access, it is rather to narrow it even further.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave S</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125606</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125606</guid>
		<description>Birmingham has a slight Tory majority, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_Council#Political_control
&lt;cite&gt;
After the local elections on 1 May 2008, there remains no overall control, with the 120 seats being divided between the Conservative (49 councillors), Labour, (36), Liberal Democrat (32) parties and Respect (3).
&lt;/cite&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Birmingham has a slight Tory majority, see: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_Council#Political_control" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_Council#Political_control</a><br />
<cite><br />
After the local elections on 1 May 2008, there remains no overall control, with the 120 seats being divided between the Conservative (49 councillors), Labour, (36), Liberal Democrat (32) parties and Respect (3).<br />
</cite></p>
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		<title>By: Letters From A Tory</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125604</link>
		<dc:creator>Letters From A Tory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125604</guid>
		<description>This is absolutely appalling.  Discrimination laws are there to protect people, yet we have this bunch of lunatics trying to wipe certain beliefs out of existence.  Even in the absence of discrimination laws, employers should not be interfering with their staff&#039;s working hours like this.  

http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is absolutely appalling.  Discrimination laws are there to protect people, yet we have this bunch of lunatics trying to wipe certain beliefs out of existence.  Even in the absence of discrimination laws, employers should not be interfering with their staff&#8217;s working hours like this.  </p>
<p><a href="http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2199#comment-125603</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2199#comment-125603</guid>
		<description>Take them to court...especially the satanists, they would win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take them to court&#8230;especially the satanists, they would win.</p>
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