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	<title>Comments on: Miliband and Harman to challenge Brown?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198</link>
	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Anas</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125618</link>
		<dc:creator>Anas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125618</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Would you prefer Jack Straw?&lt;/i&gt;

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Would you prefer Jack Straw?</i></p>
<p>Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125596</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125596</guid>
		<description>Shamit has it spot on.

The electorate won&#039;t like another back-stabbing, and neither would the Labour party.

&lt;i&gt;Sunny, it’s not just media speculation…no smoke without fire, etc. Every single commentator is now talking about the need for a change&lt;/i&gt;

Bloody hell guys, this is rather naive. In politics you can always find people who will brief against the leader for various factional reasons, especially in times of crises. 

This bollocks about &#039;no smoke without fire&#039; doesn&#039;t take into account the fact that the smoke is being created by the media.

The cabinet is strongly supporting Brown. That&#039;s all that matters. All this speculation is just that - lame speculation by the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shamit has it spot on.</p>
<p>The electorate won&#8217;t like another back-stabbing, and neither would the Labour party.</p>
<p><i>Sunny, it’s not just media speculation…no smoke without fire, etc. Every single commentator is now talking about the need for a change</i></p>
<p>Bloody hell guys, this is rather naive. In politics you can always find people who will brief against the leader for various factional reasons, especially in times of crises. </p>
<p>This bollocks about &#8216;no smoke without fire&#8217; doesn&#8217;t take into account the fact that the smoke is being created by the media.</p>
<p>The cabinet is strongly supporting Brown. That&#8217;s all that matters. All this speculation is just that &#8211; lame speculation by the media.</p>
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		<title>By: Refresh</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125592</link>
		<dc:creator>Refresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125592</guid>
		<description>I would prefer Brown to stay. He has so much left to undo before the next election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would prefer Brown to stay. He has so much left to undo before the next election.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125591</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125591</guid>
		<description>Would you prefer Jack Straw?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you prefer Jack Straw?</p>
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		<title>By: Anas</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125590</link>
		<dc:creator>Anas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125590</guid>
		<description>ugh, Harman and Miliband - who would vote for labour if either of them became party leader? they dont exactly compensate for Browns utter lack of charisma</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ugh, Harman and Miliband &#8211; who would vote for labour if either of them became party leader? they dont exactly compensate for Browns utter lack of charisma</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125589</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125589</guid>
		<description>So what are your thoughts on the Miliband news?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what are your thoughts on the Miliband news?</p>
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		<title>By: Shamit</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125586</link>
		<dc:creator>Shamit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125586</guid>
		<description>Ben

I agree - but would  it not be better if you let the readers decide on what is the truth and if there is coherence in the narrative. Why not let people tell their story their way and I think the readers are clever enough to decide for themselves

And, I firmly believe that and I am not just saying this -- I put my money where my mouth is -- if you look at our site you would see that. I believe the readers and citizens are clever enough to do their own analysis.  And, while I disagree with many politicians on their beliefs and convictions -- they put themselves on the line and that should be respected. And they should have the right to present their story their way and their opponents should have the same rights to.  One of the reasons I like pickled politics is the different opinions and thats why I respect Sunny and the PP team for what they do here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben</p>
<p>I agree &#8211; but would  it not be better if you let the readers decide on what is the truth and if there is coherence in the narrative. Why not let people tell their story their way and I think the readers are clever enough to decide for themselves</p>
<p>And, I firmly believe that and I am not just saying this &#8212; I put my money where my mouth is &#8212; if you look at our site you would see that. I believe the readers and citizens are clever enough to do their own analysis.  And, while I disagree with many politicians on their beliefs and convictions &#8212; they put themselves on the line and that should be respected. And they should have the right to present their story their way and their opponents should have the same rights to.  One of the reasons I like pickled politics is the different opinions and thats why I respect Sunny and the PP team for what they do here.</p>
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		<title>By: BenSix</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125585</link>
		<dc:creator>BenSix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125585</guid>
		<description>&quot;But I would trust a politician more anyday than an arm chair commentator such as Tonybee and others.&quot;

Politicians deserve scrutiny as they hold the power to act, news reportage deserves scrutiny as it reveals the actions of the powerful and opinion commentary deserves scrutiny as it attempts to bring coherence to narrative created by the politicians and news reportage.

Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But I would trust a politician more anyday than an arm chair commentator such as Tonybee and others.&#8221;</p>
<p>Politicians deserve scrutiny as they hold the power to act, news reportage deserves scrutiny as it reveals the actions of the powerful and opinion commentary deserves scrutiny as it attempts to bring coherence to narrative created by the politicians and news reportage.</p>
<p>Ben</p>
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		<title>By: Shamit</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125582</link>
		<dc:creator>Shamit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125582</guid>
		<description>But I would trust a politician more anyday than an arm chair commentator such as Tonybee and others.  I do respect many in the media such as Christian Amanpour or Barkha Dutt or even David Dimbleby. Oh yeah I even like Bill O Reily sometimes...at least he does not fawn over a particular candidate and then when things go wrong say I told you so.

British Media now is crap ---- and that was my point</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I would trust a politician more anyday than an arm chair commentator such as Tonybee and others.  I do respect many in the media such as Christian Amanpour or Barkha Dutt or even David Dimbleby. Oh yeah I even like Bill O Reily sometimes&#8230;at least he does not fawn over a particular candidate and then when things go wrong say I told you so.</p>
<p>British Media now is crap &#8212;- and that was my point</p>
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		<title>By: Shamit</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125581</link>
		<dc:creator>Shamit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125581</guid>
		<description>Leon I am the guy who wrote this -

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/14817&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;next election&lt;/a&gt;

and this 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/14817&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Conviction Politician&lt;/a&gt;

Do you think I am tribal labour supporter who would defend the party at any cost. Not really mate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leon I am the guy who wrote this -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/14817" rel="nofollow">next election</a></p>
<p>and this </p>
<p><a href="http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/14817" rel="nofollow"> Conviction Politician</a></p>
<p>Do you think I am tribal labour supporter who would defend the party at any cost. Not really mate</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125577</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125577</guid>
		<description>Looks like Milipede is going on tour to spread the love...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Milipede is going on tour to spread the love&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: BenSix</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125574</link>
		<dc:creator>BenSix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125574</guid>
		<description>&quot;By the way, Leon, you know the electorate trusts politicians far more than the media — so why should we trust the media and not the politicians.&quot;

We should treat them both with the utmost suspicion.

Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By the way, Leon, you know the electorate trusts politicians far more than the media — so why should we trust the media and not the politicians.&#8221;</p>
<p>We should treat them both with the utmost suspicion.</p>
<p>Ben</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125573</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125573</guid>
		<description>Smoke and mirrors mate but defend your precious Labour party all you want. The deal is done, the party&#039;s over, Labour cannot win the next election because the brand is toxic. All they can do now is decide how much damage they endure.

Anyway, looks like the wheels are creaking into motion, see the update on this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smoke and mirrors mate but defend your precious Labour party all you want. The deal is done, the party&#8217;s over, Labour cannot win the next election because the brand is toxic. All they can do now is decide how much damage they endure.</p>
<p>Anyway, looks like the wheels are creaking into motion, see the update on this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Shamit</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125571</link>
		<dc:creator>Shamit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125571</guid>
		<description>And just because people in the media said it happened -- it did not.. By the way, Leon, you know the electorate trusts politicians far more than the media -- so why should we trust the media and not the politicians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And just because people in the media said it happened &#8212; it did not.. By the way, Leon, you know the electorate trusts politicians far more than the media &#8212; so why should we trust the media and not the politicians.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125567</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125567</guid>
		<description>Just because she denies it doesn&#039;t mean it didn&#039;t happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because she denies it doesn&#8217;t mean it didn&#8217;t happen.</p>
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		<title>By: BenSix</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125565</link>
		<dc:creator>BenSix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125565</guid>
		<description>Ah well - http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/29/gordonbrown.labour1

Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah well &#8211; <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/29/gordonbrown.labour1" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/29/gordonbrown.labour1</a></p>
<p>Ben</p>
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		<title>By: Shamit</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125557</link>
		<dc:creator>Shamit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125557</guid>
		<description>I agree with Sunny -- this is all bollocks.

For 10 years, the media speculated how Brown ran the government (albeit with briefing from idiots such as Ed Balls) and Blair was basically an incompetent idiot who would not know what to do without Brown. And the media lapped it up and people like Tonybee and Alice Miles and Freedland went on about how removing Blair would resolve all the problems. But now alas they are calling for removal of Brown.

But, what the Guardianistan followers fail to understand is that the electorate dont like backstabbers -- and another coup without clear mandate from the electorate would be suicidal for the labour party.  And hence, Brown is safe.

And, politically speaking, I dont think Labour can win an election next year or this year -- something they would have to do if they bring someone in as the leader and unelected PM. And, backstabbing the leader while the country is going through tough times just would look like navel gazing and in that situation - they would lose much more seats aka 1997 (albeit reverse). 

And, that would ensure the Tories would at least win 2 elections if not 3. Cos a huge majority like that cannot be overturned in one parliament. But if they band together and (I dislike Brown vehemently) work as a team with Brown -- they would still be defeated and a new leader in opposition could have a united party to rebuild. But if they follow the advice of Tonybee, Miles and others -- they would fall into the usual trap of being far removed from the voters (just like they did when they ran Brown&#039;s campaign to remove Blair).  

And, Brown wont go withour a fight and I have a feeling he would get backing from even Blairites and old big names such as Blunkett, Reid, Prescott, Milburn who are still in parliament. And, he might have to sacrifice Ed   Balls and couple of others who are ultra - Brownites, to unite the party in the reshuffle.  

But what do I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Sunny &#8212; this is all bollocks.</p>
<p>For 10 years, the media speculated how Brown ran the government (albeit with briefing from idiots such as Ed Balls) and Blair was basically an incompetent idiot who would not know what to do without Brown. And the media lapped it up and people like Tonybee and Alice Miles and Freedland went on about how removing Blair would resolve all the problems. But now alas they are calling for removal of Brown.</p>
<p>But, what the Guardianistan followers fail to understand is that the electorate dont like backstabbers &#8212; and another coup without clear mandate from the electorate would be suicidal for the labour party.  And hence, Brown is safe.</p>
<p>And, politically speaking, I dont think Labour can win an election next year or this year &#8212; something they would have to do if they bring someone in as the leader and unelected PM. And, backstabbing the leader while the country is going through tough times just would look like navel gazing and in that situation &#8211; they would lose much more seats aka 1997 (albeit reverse). </p>
<p>And, that would ensure the Tories would at least win 2 elections if not 3. Cos a huge majority like that cannot be overturned in one parliament. But if they band together and (I dislike Brown vehemently) work as a team with Brown &#8212; they would still be defeated and a new leader in opposition could have a united party to rebuild. But if they follow the advice of Tonybee, Miles and others &#8212; they would fall into the usual trap of being far removed from the voters (just like they did when they ran Brown&#8217;s campaign to remove Blair).  </p>
<p>And, Brown wont go withour a fight and I have a feeling he would get backing from even Blairites and old big names such as Blunkett, Reid, Prescott, Milburn who are still in parliament. And, he might have to sacrifice Ed   Balls and couple of others who are ultra &#8211; Brownites, to unite the party in the reshuffle.  </p>
<p>But what do I know.</p>
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		<title>By: El Cid</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125547</link>
		<dc:creator>El Cid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125547</guid>
		<description>Unless Labour wants to turn into the Man City, Spurs, or Atletico Madrid of UK politics, I suggest they sit tight and regroup in 2009.
They are swimming against a very powerful tide. A revolving door of leadership will change nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless Labour wants to turn into the Man City, Spurs, or Atletico Madrid of UK politics, I suggest they sit tight and regroup in 2009.<br />
They are swimming against a very powerful tide. A revolving door of leadership will change nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125542</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125542</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;proportional representation would have helped Labour in the next election, if only they had the balls to have brought it in.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Delicious irony considering they once were thinking about bring it in only to turn against it once they won the 97 landslide! 

Dare Labour bring in PR?? I think not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>proportional representation would have helped Labour in the next election, if only they had the balls to have brought it in.</p></blockquote>
<p>Delicious irony considering they once were thinking about bring it in only to turn against it once they won the 97 landslide! </p>
<p>Dare Labour bring in PR?? I think not.</p>
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		<title>By: Hermes123</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2198/comment-page-1#comment-125539</link>
		<dc:creator>Hermes123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=2198#comment-125539</guid>
		<description>Bloody hell, BillyD...that&#039;s an old film. You must be ancient!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bloody hell, BillyD&#8230;that&#8217;s an old film. You must be ancient!</p>
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