Stats show knife crime falls
The British Crime Survey, which is based on interviews with the public, revealed that nearly 130,000 violent offences involved a knife last year, down 43,000 on the previous year. In London, where the problem is worst, the Metropolitan police figures showed a 16% decrease in “knife enabled” crimes, the survey said.
But no people, we should panic! Make sure you have that knife-proof vest because according to Neil Clark, life was perfect in the 1950s and now all these multicultural people have made our lives sooooooo much more scary!
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Does anyone believe the figures though? Weren’t there some policemen reported as saying they didn’t trust them because the gangs weren’t inclined to report knifings to the police?
*coughs*
I must admit, I actually went ‘Yesss!’ and ever-so-slightly pumped my fist when I saw this being very pointedly reported on the BBC afternoon news.
It’s a huge relief as a Londoner to have some perspective on this whole thing.
Crime was a lot lower in the 50’s wasn’t it?
‘Does anyone believe the figures though.’
Well during the London elections Boris and the Tories told us again and again that the British Crime Survey figures were the most authoritative.
The overall levels might be wrong, but the trend is clear.
‘Crime was a lot lower in the 50’s wasn’t it?’
Yes, and gay people didn’t exist either.
Does anyone believe the figures though?
I agree! Why believe official figures when they come in the way of a perfectly good media frenzy and justified outrage with New Labour??
We should only believe figures when they fit into what we already think. Spot on Bishop Hill.
Blaming it on gay people seems a bit unfair!
Slighty off on a tangent here but…
The Suzy Lamplugh trust issued a statement today about how men should carry personal safety alarms, guess they are too late if knife crime is already so low.
Considering the vast majority of knife crime is aimed at men, something should be done, shouldn’t it?
An alarm that has a loud piercing screaming! will you be laughed at and hurt because you are such a prat for carrying one? or will it as hoped deter a would be assailant.
Personally I cant see it catching on. Men’s pocket’s contain a mobile or two, keys, wallet and change. Women’s bags are a bit bigger than pockets and contain everything!
That’s why women are more likely to carry one, not sure if they can always locate it when required though.
What’s the next suggestion Mace??
Sunny
You seem to know a great deal about my opinion on the existence or otherwise of a knife crime epidemic. Perhaps you could tell me what it is, because I’ve been having trouble making my mind up.
The problems with the crime stats are well documented.
Amusingly, the BCS figures reported today don’t include the homicide figures, which will not be reported until the beginning of 2009.
The problems with the crime stats are well documented.
What do you propose to use as an alternative marker? Newspaper editorials? The experience of my grandma? I’m interested.
A large portion of knife crimes are not reported by teenagers. So the true extent of the problem is not fully knowable.
Anecdotally, the amount of children that are willing to use knives or weapons in violence almost certainly seem to have increased since I was a teenager.
Whilst stabbings did take place back then (late 80s/early 90s), fatalities were rare. Also the people who would be willing to indulge in such violence seem to be an infinitely smaller group compared to now (such people were often well known and avoided like the plague!)
I think maybe the real issue we should be discussing is whether youths in general are becoming increasingly aimless and detached from wider society. Or are they just being arsey teenagers?
Sunny
I’m saying we don’t know. In the absence of better information we are stuck with the BCS, of course, but as I pointed out, lots of people are not going to believe the figures. I think you are right to call for caution over tabloid hysteria, but you shouldn’t leap on the BCS figures for vindication either.
To quote Wat Tyler:
http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2008/07/listen-up-you-idiots-crime-is-down.html
crime was a lot lower in 50s and in 60s. Yeah, but that was the time when as an Asian Doctor my mum was spit at in the A&E — while the patients family was distraught and outraged a “blackie” was going to operate on their kid.
So anyone wanna go back to the 60’s — good luck to you mate
Spitting at people is very bad. Whether it’s worse than stabbing them I’m not so sure. Recorded crime is running at around ten times the levels of the early 1950s.
I’m not blaming the gays, I’m taking the piss!
Maybe crime was lower back then because it was reported even less than now.
Laban – your point is lost on me. Are you going to the Tory school on broken society?
What I gather from people who have been around in the 1950s — life was far harder especially if you were not privileged. And, that was irrespective of colour and creed.
We had rationing — and even the royals weren’t spared.
Economically we were broken — and social justice was fundamentally a new concept. And, if you challenge BCS figures now –just imagine how confident would you be about statistics if you were a poor family then.
No, but things are broken — cant you SEEEEE…..oh wish we could go back to being a bankrupt country – with little or no social justice and life expectancy far lower.
Well Laban I just don’t get it. But I am a self admitted thicko Asian Masa.
I had spotted that!
It was my poor joke.
Err..
Just a couple of points. I was alive during the 50’s and 60’s.
We complain nowadays about half arsed technology. We didn’t even have anything you guys would even recognise as technology. When was the last time you saw a steam train?
You’d laugh your socks off.
The pinnacle of that era was probably paper tape banking records, (hanging chads anyone? Err, lack of accuracy?)
It was also an era where black people – which was the expression for anyone different – were as common as hens’ teeth. Certainly in the 50’s and probably up to mid 60’s. See Windrush for an explanation.
Me?
You just live through it. I don’t think, I never did, that white folk are better, nor that black folk are either. There are good folk, and as Morgoth has said, and it ain’t about the melanin in your skin. One way or the other.
On a personally important note, I may have the chance of a writing gig. So, I’ll see you all later, either with my tail between my legs – as usual – or strutting my stuff. Fingers crossed I can get this right.
See you in a bit.
Good luck Doug!
Well, there are a lot more crimes to commit nowadays. And ‘domestics’ were pretty much disregarded.
“On a personally important note, I may have the chance of a writing gig. So, I’ll see you all later, either with my tail between my legs – as usual – or strutting my stuff. Fingers crossed I can get this right.
See you in a bit.”
Good luck
)
‘“On a personally important note, I may have the chance of a writing gig. So, I’ll see you all later, either with my tail between my legs – as usual – or strutting my stuff. Fingers crossed I can get this right.
See you in a bit.”
Good luck
)’
Ditto!
cjcjc, if you’re talking to me, then it’s OK, I was just taking the piss again
.
good luck douglas! I love this guy and his insights…
Sunny, there was a report by a BBC journalist on the news website that says that while knife crime has slightly fallen in Britain overall, in London, and among a certain demographic, it has sky rocketed in the last few years. And disproportionately, it has grown in youth gangs, and the victims and perpetrators are disproportionately young black men. You can call Daily Mail hysteria on a number of things, but I think that this is one of those issues where there is an issue for concern.
Sunny, seriously, sometimes you really come across as very shallow.
But then maybe I have different priorities, so I see things differently. Put your Obama hat on and move on with the times. Your knee-jerk defensiveness is sooooo stale and unhelpful.
I’ll get to the point.
You all want perspective on knife crime? Ask your self these very simple questions.
This recent knifing spree — who are the victims? Any distinguishing features? What makes the current situation different from the past? What does the broader data tell us and what doesn’t it tell us?
When I was a yoot I was in a gang. I remember the teenage lure of violence, the fascination with it and with weapons. Luckily I was really a wimp so I eventually steered clear of the bad eggs, buckled down with my studies, and nothing came of it. And yet what’s happening now troubles me and it troubles other men of my generation who know a thing or two about stuff. Call it qualitative data.
I’ll give you a clue: My eldest boy is 10 years old.
My message to you wannabe politicos: get off your abstract high horses, stop seeing everything as a point-scoring exercise, stop stooping to ‘the other side’s’ standards and practice what you preach when presenting evidence, and above all get down with the real people. It’s your Achilles Heel.
Where Multiculturalism stifles open and honest debate about the shortcomings of minority groups, it does indeed make life a lot more scary.
Especially for the vulnerable micro-minorities who are most at risk from the behaviours protected from criticism.
(Another intimidating ride home tonight on the trains- these reassuring statistics were cold comfort really.)
El Cid:
“This recent knifing spree — who are the victims? Any distinguishing features? What makes the current situation different from the past? What does the broader data tell us and what doesn’t it tell us?”
I tried asking the same question here and on Rupa Huq’s forum, and drew similar blanks. Some people are so conditioned to ‘do the right thing’ that they are afraid to grasp the particular and distinctive features of the current problem.
Which of course leaves the far right in the privileged position of being able to state the blindingly obvious and look like the only ones telling the truth.
When are the left going to have the courage to own simple truths?
p.s. when I was a yoot I weren’t in a gang, but I did used to go bare jungle raves
1. crime rate falls
2. number of journalists covering the crime beat, number of pages assigned to cover crime stories stays constant
3. inner city black-on-black crime, always present, now gets covered in full detail for the first time
Any facts that doesn’t match?
An event not occurring should be news as well. We shouldn’t have to wait for these reports. Example:
Newsflash – ‘Today in the news, a man walking down the street in London was not stabbed.’
But seriously, thinking outside the box, is all these scare mongering of minor stuff a good sign. Does it mean that we have to fret about something and there is nothing major of concern. Alas, no – unemployment, falling real wages, oil, food, and on and on and on. They’ll just keep complaining.
Maybe the relative suffering makes us feel better off…it must be why people watch depressing programmes like Eastenders.
The best news these days is either local news or the entertainment slot – at least it’s happy stuff.
Soru:
“inner city black-on-black crime, always present, now gets covered in full detail for the first time”
I’m guessing you haven’t grown up in London. If you had you would know that the new feature now is the organised gang structures and street codes imported from the US.
Those are new, they have not been ‘always present’.
I think some of you are being left behind in this debate. It’s time for more of a problem-solving approach. Despite the racist shrill that often comes through in the comments section of the Daily Mail et al, in the big scheme of things the BNP is yesterday’s problem. They don’t and never will stand a chance. Don’t be fooled. Even if 9/11 and 7/7 appears to have given them a new lease of life in recent years, they are history. If it came to it, metropolitan Britain would crush Middle England.
It’s an unassailable coalition.
I think this fellah says some of what I’m thinking better than me:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/20/children.race
What is the blindingly obvious truth that the far right states? That black people are inherently prone to violence and crime? If you actually spend time with far right people that’s the gist of it all, something you seem to believe is a ‘blindingly obvious’ truth.
The far right does not discuss the sociological, economic or cultural issues at play in a complex web of factors that lead to issues like this arising. They say it’s because blacks are barely civilised, and are engaged in a campaign of tribal violence, and it is part of the slow destruction of Britain in a morass of the coons and pakis. They are simpletons, and it seems you rather admire their ‘bluntness’. If you think this isn’t being debated by the Left and people in the black community you’re.
And if you can’t tell the difference between this and the discourse of the ‘far-right’, you are a half wit.
‘If you think this isn’t being debated by the Left and people in the black community you’re BLIND’
Joolz:
“Which of course leaves the far right in the privileged position of being able to state the blindingly obvious and look like the only ones telling the truth.”
The blindingly obvious is the simple fact that most of the victims and perpetrators in the current spree are black.
Yet it seems that the left has a problem admitting that simple fact in public.
And Joolz please don’t use those racist slurs, especially without quote marks.
mixtogether, see Joolz epitomises why the liberal-left is sometimes driven to distraction and (racial) politics is less about finding solutions than about controlling the narrative.
But people like Joolz are an irrelevant if offensive inconvenience. That he doesn’t know it is not my problem. When push comes to shove, people like me will always side with the liberal left. The extreme (white) right is yesterday’s story. But if I can help avoid a polarised dullards’ debate then I will.
You posted as ac256 on Rupa Huq’s blog, right?
Please don’t tell me what to do. Most people reading my words are able to understand the gravity of these phrases, in common usage amongst white people, and relevant to the points I was making, in reference to ‘the far-right’, without being instructed as if they are morons, so please don’t patronise them either.
It’s impossible to debate with someone who stares into the face of strawman for so long he starts to sound like a scarecrow himself. If you think that’s the righteousness of the ‘far-right’ you’re depraved. It’s obvious that asking you to read the points I made in my above posts again to understand this won’t have much effect, but I can refer you to them again for protocol’s sake.
Psychobabble.
Joolz is a ’she’. And you saying someone is irrelevant or offensive doesn’t make them so, just because you disagree with what they say.
Here look, El Cid, I think you’re irrelevant and an offensive inconvenience. You see, I can do it too. I even stick my tongue out and blow a raspberry at you. The argument has not advanced, you are still here.
I wonder who these fearful people are. Another stabbing which resulted in the death of a 27 year old literally 30 seconds from where I live in North London and still I don’t fear the streets…
Common sense is a now a life saver if you ask me. Know your manor, which people to avoid socially being involved in and which places to not drink or go clubbing in and you’ve a high chance of staying out of trouble.
The break down of community has a part to play. If the children aren’t alright then it’s the responsibility of all adults to sort. The idea that this is all caused by black people, aside from being breathtakingly racist, isn’t true. The area’s I travel in and live in have kids from different backgrounds hanging out and causing trouble. It’s the urban life of the inner cities that’s created this culture of despair not some people from Africa or the Caribbean.
Except where they gain large electoral support, foment racial hatred, engage in extremist activity, poison the public debate, and encourage violence in small towns and suburbs across Britain.
Apart from that, they’re irrelevant.
Nice one, El Cid.
“The idea that this is all caused by black people”
the word “all” could be done away with here, don’t you think? It’s not helpful.
I’d also say Leon that quite a lot of black people think and say the afro-caribbean community has a problem with gang-related youth violence. I know that from personal experience as well as from articles. For example, I was just chatting about half an hour ago to a very close mate who is a bus driver. He loves the 168 from Hampstead Heath to the Old Kent Road, but when he’s asked to do the 243 route down the A10 he frets. Just the other day some ragga — his word — pretended to shoot him because he refused to open the doors between stops in Dalston. A minor thing you might think, but he is a public servant and faces that and worst on a frequent basis. As the son of two Jamaican parents he can’t be racist (towards blacks) can he? No.
Ok, if you want to balance it out the white working class in some communities have a problem with youth drinking and drink related violence. Would that make you feel better?
Common sense was always a life saver silly! Where do you think the words “street wise” come from? I would consider myself to be very streetwise. Hence my urban antenna has told me to wear my contact lenses every day and I’ve dispensed with my glasses. When the time comes I want to be ready. Ya get me?
Absolutely. The goal is to find a solution to minimise knife and street crime. If this is a problem that affects urban black youth – specially as victims – does anyone believe that it is in the best interest for the affected communities to be saying that the problem is nothing more than a racist conspiracy to demonise blacks?
I’m interested in something. Why isn’t there a focus on solving the problem of Glasgow and the youths engaged in violence there?
Don’t we care about Glasgow?
El Cid, I don’t think this is something worth joking about; I was trying to give a bit more of a grounded view of the subject rather than laying blame (as some are determined to do) at Black people.
When these deaths happens it’s a news headline to most but for people I know and the area I live in it’s younger brothers of guys I grew up with, or friends of my sisters, or friends of friends of my family…
Really Leon? And what do you think it is to me? Joker
Joolz:
35)”blacks are barely civilised, and are engaged in a campaign of tribal violence, and it is part of the slow destruction of Britain in a morass of the coons and pakis”
39)”these phrases, in common usage amongst white people…”
Not among any white people I’ve ever met.
Where do you think these phrases are in ‘common usage’???
Except on Pickled Politics of course, as you have now used them.
It is very likely that people are trying to tackle the problem of violence in Glasgow.
Of course, tabloids and blogs don’t make noise because it does not contain: (a) non-whites, (b) racists, (c) muslims, (d) islamophobes. So just to be clear, just because there is no noise, does not mean that people are not tackling it, or the problem is not being solved… in fact no noise just makes it easier. Because those doing the noise are not interested in solving the problem.
Personally, I care more about solving the problem in London than in Glasgow.