Comments on: How we got into this sad state of affairs

By: East-Timor » East Timor: History, Geography, Government, and Culture ...

East-Timor » East Timor: History, Geography, Government, and Culture ... — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:42:55 +0000

[...] How we got into this sad state of affairs [...]

By: Tu S. Tin

Tu S. Tin — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:51:11 +0000

sunny,
ya know I have read this blog for years but seldom take the time to comment here or anywhere else.
It gets harder and harder to see or remember what anyones actual views are, let alone what they are trying to do?
So you were against the war in Iraq? Does that mean you supported Saddam? I doubt it …. But what do you support? I don’t get the point of your recent posts then? or any other dealing with “oppression” “corruption” or “human rights horrors” in other countries.
You suggest the government using force through law to promote equality in the UK as an aide to spreading of individual freedom…. but you oppose our involvement else where?
Haven’t you in the past labeled the americans an “occupation”? …
I don’t understand your comment #9 then?

honestly I don’t understand anyone… so Im just asking here…
What exactly would make you happy?

By: shariq

shariq — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:32:56 +0000

Thabet, fair point. The amount of civilian casualties caused by American mistakes and Warlord brutality has contributed to the deterioration of goodwill. Now that the Taliban has regrouped, they are occurring from the other side as well. Overall it is a desperate situation.

By: Sunny

Sunny — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:14:25 +0000

The war in Iraq is being won? By what measurement? Going by the previous level of hell they were going through, it is obviously better. But do remember this precarious position has been created by allying with various sunni/shia groups on the ground who hate al-Qaeda more. The minute those groups have different priorities… like say once al-qaeda is no longer important and they want to start running their own localities, the foreign forces are screwed.

The war in Iraq hasn’t been won. Its just no longer as bad as it used to be.

By: digitalcntrl

digitalcntrl — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:39:22 +0000

“The only thing I’d disagree with is that although the west helped create OBL that was a while ago.”

I am a bit confused when people say the west “created” OBL. Bin Laden was not financed by the west. You have to recall Bin Laden was primarily a financier of the militants not an actual fighter. With his family worth near $15 billion and a personal inheritance of $0.5 billion, he was a major funneler of money to the militants. The US also financied militant as well though they did not focus on pashtun/arab militants as OBL did but gave resources to what became the northern alliance (i.e. Masood) as well.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5151657

By: thabet

thabet — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:08:08 +0000

The past week has seen the American Army…

No mention of the civilians killed (by either side)?

By: Zak

Zak — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:34:09 +0000

True Shariq, but there is a difference between Pakistans establishment and Pakistan..for others reading this Pakistan’s establishment is the equivalent of Turkeys Deep state http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state

By: shariq

shariq — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:07:37 +0000

Zak, great summary. The only thing I’d disagree with is that although the west helped create OBL that was a while ago. On the other hand Pakistan continued to see the Taliban as the best option for Afghanistan despite seeing the impact they had on the country and the rest of the world after 9/11.

Bishop Hill, the UN has been successful in deploying its peacekeepers in certain areas. However for something like Afghanistan, it needed troops on a much larger scale and the European countries also needed to realise that the troops needed to be able to fight the counter-insurgents rather than simply peace-keeping.

Bishop Hill, neither me nor the author think that the war in Iraq is being won. The thing is, a lot of the mistakes made in Afghanistan were repeated in Iraq.

A strong troop deployment in Afghanistan could have been really useful after the war. I’m not sure it would work now. Besides the US doesn’t really have the troops. Also the political concensus which had been established has broken down.

By: Bishop Hill

Bishop Hill — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:57:37 +0000

It’s interesting that the author says the war is being lost in Pakistan and Afghanistan. This suggests that he agrees with what appears to be a consensus that the war in Iraq is being won.

This being the case, the solution in Afghanistan is a “surge”, wouldn’t you say?

By: digitalcntrl

digitalcntrl — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:51:42 +0000

You can watch Ahmed Rashid’s analysis via an interview as well if you are too lazy to read : ) …

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/interview+ahmed+rashid/2307377

By: MaidMarian

MaidMarian — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:57:58 +0000

‘The most plausible critique of Rashid’s book would be that his analysis overestimates the capacity of western and UN forces to carry out nation-building in Afghanistan after the conclusion of the war.’

Yes – but that begs wider questions. Why has the UN not geared itself up for such activity? It is not as though the need for it is novel, only the scale.

It could be that ‘the West’ (whatever that means) underestimates what nation-building entails or indeed overestimates the capacity of locals.

I personally do not think we need a UN – let globalisation take care of the uniting part on its own. We an NB (Nation Builder).

It may well be, as is implicit in the article that democracy in a ‘real’ sense and stability do not reconcile – not a palatable thought for those who believe that peace is a default setting.

By: Zak

Zak — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:47:27 +0000

To summarise, the Americans could have helped improve Afghanistan but were insincere (Afghanistan lacked oil unlike Iraq), the European approach is more fortress Europe and a lack of resolve to project power outside Europe (scratch that even in Europe a la Bosnia). Pakistan was promoting the Taliban as a counterweight against perceived secessionist nationalists and as cannon fodder in it’s proxy wars against India. The Taliban are now instead using Pakistan territory to wage proxy wars against the West.

The West and Pak bashers blame Pakistan for creating the Taliban but get offended if anyone says the same about OBL and the west.

Being someone originally from the Paksitan side of the Afghan border i can say if a real effort was spent right now on the North West Frontier Province and Federally Administered Tribal Areas ..on development the area could be cleared without a bullet being fired..we are talking a billion dollars at best..a pittance compared to whats being spent in Afghanistan..but is anyone listening?…